Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Hectic]

I'm making the assumptions because I have faith in the moderator to balance the game.

[Hectic]

Quest Accepted!

[springlullaby]

Why are you making these assumptions?

If train cop is choosen, what do you propose the town do as a plan?

I'm not sure yet. I'm thinking about the my idea, and the ones you and Lady Chloe have proposed.

But even if we don't follow any of them, we still have the benefit of not giving scum any safe Train claims.

This has already been debunked: scum can just claim they used the train cop ability.

Your logic is off.

[Hectic]

This has already been debunked: scum can just claim they used the train cop ability.

Your logic is off.

That was also debunked. They then have to claim whether their target was Training or not which they won't know.

[springlullaby]

I think only the minimum number of players necessary should do the quest and we should vote on which players to do the quest during the day. This will, ideally, reduce mafia's influence inside the quest and potentially limit their access to the content discussed.

Do you know how many scum we have?
Why are you so bad at logic?

[springlullaby]

This has already been debunked: scum can just claim they used the train cop ability.

Your logic is off.

That was also debunked. They then have to claim whether their target was Training or not which they won't know.

Only 1 person in the multiple scumteam would have to use the train cop ability to have at least 1 accurate result.

I can't bother with the math, but it is very wrong.

[Ame]

It's like a double filter where scum's influence becomes diluted in the process. The minimum number required is 7, which means 6 off. There are 3 mafia. Presuming we use our pro scumhunting skills, we could filter out 1-3 mafia from being a part of the quest. Thus reducing their influence during the quest itself.

[springlullaby]

^ Dumb.

We are settling the quest thing now.
We do it, I'm the leader.
Profit.

[springlullaby]

I sent my PM to the mod for the quest.
Confirm that you have sent yours.

If not explain why.

[Hectic]

Only 1 person in the multiple scumteam would have to use the train cop ability to have at least 1 accurate result.

That means one of the 2/3 scum have to use a train cop ability each night which is otherwise a complete waste of a night for them. Do you not understand the value?

[springlullaby]

Only 1 person in the multiple scumteam would have to use the train cop ability to have at least 1 accurate result.

That means one of the 2/3 scum have to use a train cop ability each night which is otherwise a complete waste of a night for them. Do you not understand the value?

And you would know how scum abilities distribution functions, how?

[Lady Chloe]

Lady Chloe, I'm assuming the setup is balanced in such a way that not choosing Disable Strongman won't be that bad for one of the following reasons:

1 - There's not that many protectives in the game/stuff relevant to strongmen.

2 - The option will be available again on a future day.

I asked why Train Cop was the better approach, not permission on why it's OK to the drop the Disable Strongman vote.

[Hectic]

The Mafia factional kill is a bonus action; this in effect means that all Mafia members are multitasking, as they may carry out the Mafia kill at the same time as taking a personal action.

Oh, you're right. Never mind.

[Hectic]

Yeah, I think I've changed my mind. All scum are multitasking so can Train Cop and kill simultaneously.

We do Train Cop only if we can establish a good strat beforehand.

[Lady Chloe]

I think only the minimum number of players necessary should do the quest and we should vote on which players to do the quest during the day. This will, ideally, reduce mafia's influence inside the quest and potentially limit their access to the content discussed.

This approach assumes that town is always correctly permitting town into a quest. Scum have the power of voice, too.

This approach also assumes that mafia will

care

about this decision-making process, even in the threat of capture or vig.

To more thoroughly reduce scum's chances of success in a quest; at least 2x town should be present in a quest in respect of the current living mafia.

16. This game is 10 town-aligned players versus 3 mafia-aligned players.

3 alive mafia.
6 townies must join.

9 players is the minimum I'll accept for a well-functioning, town-led Quest.

[Professor Moriarty]

VC 1.2

[Capture] Momo (1)- springlullaby
[Capture] Lady Chloe (1)- mastina

Not voting (11)- Pink Ball, Raya36, Pine, Ginngie, Lady Chloe, momo, Flight of the Conchords, Not Known 15, Farkset, Hectic, Ame

With 13 alive it takes 7 to reach a majority.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-04-20 13:00:00)

Mod notes: could people please use the VOTE: tags to vote, or try to put a space after the colon in votes formatted

vote:

?
e.g. VOTE: Something_Smart is great;

vote: the worst

is great;

vote:the worst

isn't great.
just makes our lives slightly easier (and reduces the chance of missed votes later), thank you

Public Mechanic Vote

Train Cop (6)- Ginngie, Hectic, Raya36, Not Known 15, mastina, Pine
Disable Strongman (3)- Farkset, Lady Chloe, springlullaby
Neighborizer (3)- momo, Ame, Flight of the Conchords

Not voting (1)- Pink Ball

[Ame]

This approach assumes that town is always correctly permitting town into a quest. Scum have the power of voice, too.

That's what I mean by a filter. It's not perfect, but it's something. If scum care about influencing the quest, they will have to do so first in the public thread, then in the private thread. It's just an idea though. I don't think it's that important if there's not obvious support for it. To be honest, my real agenda was giving critical PRs a way to avoid joining the quest without becoming a target for mafia. But increasing the number who join beyond the minimum kind of diminishes that.

[springlullaby]

[Quest]
During the day, any player may PM us to choose to join the quest. They may change their mind at any time. At the end of the day, if more than half of the living players have chosen to do so, the quest will succeed; otherwise, it will fail. If the quest succeeds, a PT will be created for the following night with all players who joined it, and during the first half of the night they must vote in that PT on one player on the quest to become the Leader, chosen by plurality. Then, the quest PT will be locked and the Leader will be shown an item which gives a special power, and the Leader must choose any other player on the quest to receive the item (they will be secretly informed that they received it and what it does). This does not count as an action. The Leader will also gain 1 XP, which can be used that night. Players participating in a Quest may still Train or take other night actions, as normal.
However, if the quest succeeds, the Mafia will learn who is on the quest and may choose one player on the quest to sabotage that night, preventing all actions they take and removing all XP they have. XP they spend or earn that night is not lost.

@mod: can sabotage be targeted at a quest leader, and if so, does it prevent said leader to perform a)discovery and gifting of special item b)gaining xp?

[Ame]

The gifting does not count as an action so cannot be blocked.

[Ame]

And sabotaging doesn't prevent gains in XP.

[springlullaby]

[Quest]
During the day, any player may PM us to choose to join the quest. They may change their mind at any time. At the end of the day, if more than half of the living players have chosen to do so, the quest will succeed; otherwise, it will fail. If the quest succeeds, a PT will be created for the following night with all players who joined it, and during the first half of the night they must vote in that PT on one player on the quest to become the Leader, chosen by plurality. Then, the quest PT will be locked and the Leader will be shown an item which gives a special power, and the Leader must choose any other player on the quest to receive the item (they will be secretly informed that they received it and what it does). This does not count as an action. The Leader will also gain 1 XP, which can be used that night. Players participating in a Quest may still Train or take other night actions, as normal.
However, if the quest succeeds, the Mafia will learn who is on the quest and may choose one player on the quest to sabotage that night, preventing all actions they take and removing all XP they have. XP they spend or earn that night is not lost.

@mod: can sabotage be targeted at a quest leader, and if so, does it prevent said leader to perform a)discovery and gifting of special item b)gaining xp c)using the bonus xp?

[momo]

I would like to clarify that I initially viewed train cop as useless because I didn't realize that every individual had to choose either to train or to use an ability. I thought everyone would be training every night and missed the point of that role. At this point, I wouldn't mind choosing the ability but it isn't my top choice either.

The reason I support neighborizer is because this is a power heavy game. If neighborhoods are created among people that hard townread each other, actions can be coordinated. Of course there is the risk of a scum pocket, but we have to trust everyone to not be unduly influenced by their neighbor(s). Also, the number of scum is limited. If everyone makes a neighborhood, there will be neighborhoods that are only town, creating a strong benefit.

On the disable strongman? Why would you choose this. For scum, to make a strongman kill would be a complete waste of an XP point. N1, there is a 1/12 chance that our doctor correctly protects the night kill. If scum wants to waste their XP on that 1 in 12 chance, let's leave them the rope to hang themselves with. I understand that for some reason, people strong support this option and that my dismissal of the strongman ability might be unpopular, but think it through. Using strongman is strategically incorrect for scum. We shouldn't take away the option, especially when there are two more beneficial alternatives.

[Professor Moriarty]

[Quest]
During the day, any player may PM us to choose to join the quest. They may change their mind at any time. At the end of the day, if more than half of the living players have chosen to do so, the quest will succeed; otherwise, it will fail. If the quest succeeds, a PT will be created for the following night with all players who joined it, and during the first half of the night they must vote in that PT on one player on the quest to become the Leader, chosen by plurality. Then, the quest PT will be locked and the Leader will be shown an item which gives a special power, and the Leader must choose any other player on the quest to receive the item (they will be secretly informed that they received it and what it does). This does not count as an action. The Leader will also gain 1 XP, which can be used that night. Players participating in a Quest may still Train or take other night actions, as normal.
However, if the quest succeeds, the Mafia will learn who is on the quest and may choose one player on the quest to sabotage that night, preventing all actions they take and removing all XP they have. XP they spend or earn that night is not lost.

@mod: can sabotage be targeted at a quest leader, and if so, does it prevent said leader to perform a)discovery and gifting of special item b)gaining xp c)using the bonus xp?

The sabotage may be targeted at the quest leader. It will not prevent any of those things.

[Hectic]

After realising the flaws with Train Cop, I kinda just wanna vote Neighbourhood for fun reasons now. VOTE: Neighbourhood

Momo, I agree, but you're missing situations where town cops/or strong PRs are forced to claim due to being driven up, and then scum can strongman while needing to kill them the next night.

[Hectic]

springlullaby, what makes you think you should be the quest leader?

Side note which definitely isn't related: What's your favourite wildcat?