Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[springlullaby]

^Ok.

Do you have a preference on the people voting/who have voted me as your preferred scum?

[Pink Ball]

Nope. I would have addressed it if that was the case

[Ame]

Ame,

I would appreciate a nuanced opinion of choosing Neighborizer.

First, some roles are may at some time have idle XP such as Pacifist or Accelerator & Autofarmer (when everyone is upgraded), so we should provide the option to utilize XP with abilities such as neighborizer so as to not have XP go to waste. Second, neighborhoods will allow roles like accelerator and autofarmer to coordinate their XP sharing abilities, providing it to those who need it. This is better than having them take a shot in the dark which is better than having people seek out XP publically. And because this is essentially a non-vanilla game, neighborhoods will be useful for PR coordination in general. Third, mafia are less likely to form neighborhoods than town because it exhausts XP which they need for the kill and the strongman. This is what I meant by being fine with allowing scum to keep strongman. It will force them to have to choose between spending their XP on being strong, neighborizing, or other; and the more they exhaust XP the better for us. Ultimately, we want them in a position where they are cornered/unable to use the NK/forced to train. So yea, most of the hoods are probably going to be town initiated, and even those that aren't, it's still a fairly useful way for evaluating one another—who and why someone neighborizes, pocket attempts, etc.

May you explain mastina's "mechanic orientation" in the previous game and how that correlates to her behavior here?

Being mechanically minded and the fact that she was so involved in the previous game, it is unlikely that she forgot that training can't take place at the same time as an action. If it were someone who wasn't much into mechanics, this would be a reasonable excuse as they may have genuinely just not paid attention the previous game. Mastina is a master mind, however, and very cognizant of the mechanical details.

[Lady Chloe]

You have a lovely brain, Ame.

My main fear is we will not have the same option with Disable Strongman, again. A crucial town PR getting sabotaged in the Quest, another.

Leaving the possibility of the two outcomes above makes it hard to Quest and vote Neighborizer in good conscience.

Say, the two above outcomes occur, how may town best approach the game?

[springlullaby]

Link to the old XP mafia game please.

[springlullaby]

^@Ame.

[Ame]

I must consult the Echo.

[Not Known 15]

Being mechanically minded and the fact that she was so involved in the previous game, it is unlikely that she forgot that training can't take place at the same time as an action. If it were someone who wasn't much into mechanics, this would be a reasonable excuse as they may have genuinely just not paid attention the previous game. Mastina is a master mind, however, and very cognizant of the mechanical details.

There were changes, however. The mafia kill was not listed as a bonus action, publicly, at the start of the game.

[Ame]

Yes, but the rule was the same. We just have added clarification here.

From XP1:

This takes the place of another action and cannot be used alongside

any action

.

Additionally, Mastina was a part of the scum team so was aware even if the public wasn't. And the post I quoted from before indicates that she was:

And why no kill N4?

There's no explanation for this except for scum training. It's the only possibility, because there's no method by which a kill could have been stopped.

I didn't stop it with my roleblock, Assembler was dead, so there was no longer any obstacles for a kill. It had to be training. N3 does not have to be.

[Not Known 15]

Yes, but the rule was the same. We just have added clarification here.

From XP1:

This takes the place of another action and cannot be used alongside

any action

.

Additionally, Mastina was a part of the scum team so was aware even if the public wasn't. And the post I quoted from before indicates that she was:

And why no kill N4?

There's no explanation for this except for scum training. It's the only possibility, because there's no method by which a kill could have been stopped.

I didn't stop it with my roleblock, Assembler was dead, so there was no longer any obstacles for a kill. It had to be training. N3 does not have to be.

That was more than two years ago... Do you remember all things from two years ago? I see the possibility of it being faked but it isn`t big enough to be scum indicative.

[Farkset]

My comment on the state of the game is that one scum is voting you no matter what your alignment is. If you're town, they want to discredit you because of your open leadership proposal. If you're scum, it would be distancing

Can you clarify what are your reads based on this? There were only a very few votes on springlullaby at the moment of this post, what made you think that there is scum among them?

You admitted the possibility of SvS votes - why should a scumteam that includes springlullaby orchestrate this theater, this early in the game?

-Farkran

[Farkset]

Yes, but the rule was the same. We just have added clarification here.

From XP1:

This takes the place of another action and cannot be used alongside

any action

.

Additionally, Mastina was a part of the scum team so was aware even if the public wasn't. And the post I quoted from before indicates that she was:

And why no kill N4?

There's no explanation for this except for scum training. It's the only possibility, because there's no method by which a kill could have been stopped.

I didn't stop it with my roleblock, Assembler was dead, so there was no longer any obstacles for a kill. It had to be training. N3 does not have to be.

That was more than two years ago... Do you remember all things from two years ago? I see the possibility of it being faked but it isn`t big enough to be scum indicative.

Was the scum kill a bonus action in the previous XP mafia, or just an action? Misreading what a bonus action is could explain the issue if it didn't exist in the past, but this is still a good point to make about mastina.

@Pine, i think you are the authority here when talking about mastina, is that AI for her?

-Farkran

[Not Known 15]

Was the scum kill a bonus action in the previous XP mafia, or just an action? Misreading what a bonus action is could explain the issue if it didn't exist in the past, but this is still a good point to make about mastina.

@Pine, i think you are the authority here when talking about mastina, is that AI for her?

It was usable with any action except train, but it was NOT called a bonus action. Again, it`s several years past. If it is a mistake, it is more likely - more, not very - to come from town. But there is still a chance that it was faked, so.... it averages that one to null for me

[Ame]

That was more than two years ago... Do you remember all things from two years ago? I see the possibility of it being faked but it isn`t big enough to be scum indicative.

I can dig that, thank you for your input.

[Ame]

OK I've been thinking over some things. First, I change my mind, disable strongman is the way to go. Second, I don't trust Spring's agenda so I'm leaving the quest.

[Ame]

Hectic, which of Farkset's reads do you disagree with, if any? Basically, how would you arrange the list they provided?

[springlullaby]

Someone link me the old game, I can't find it in the search engine.

[springlullaby]

You have a lovely brain, Ame.

My main fear is we will not have the same option with Disable Strongman, again. A crucial town PR getting sabotaged in the Quest, another.

Leaving the possibility of the two outcomes above makes it hard to Quest and vote Neighborizer in good conscience.

Say, the two above outcomes occur, how may town best approach the game?

1. What make you think Mafia doesn't already have a Roleblock?
This seems to be a PR heavy game, from a setup POV, I think it makes more sense that the sabotage is a way to balance the quest item.
> Your train of thought apply from a town perspective only if you think it is a good idea to, at this point, to make the PR/vanilla balance evident to scum.

2. From a town standpoint, it's a risk reward balancing act.
From a mafia standpoint however, barring mechanics unknown to me, I don't think there is any downside to them joining the quest, so having more people joining the quest also increase chance leadership vote is protown.
> It's a chance for mafia to get an item.

3. Assuming good quality of game design because this is the second iteration, I also think quest may yield something good if maneuvered correctly. In any case, it's a nice idea to at least see what it is about on a low risk day.

[Flight of the Conchords]

Bret, why do you think mafia should have strongman available to them in a philosophical game sense?

The game should be balanced regardless of what we choose

, and there's plenty of other setups which have no strongmen.

You keep saying this and it's killing me from the inside. It's similar to you saying it doesn't matter who we lynch on D1 in any given game because the game should be balanced regardless.

To address your concerns, I say strongman is a way to seepage mafia xp, just like neighborizer was a away to seepage town xp (I realize Bret voted there and I was too late to arrive to the game or our hydra thread, so I apologize for that), but I'm glad it didn't go through. Too bad you lot opted to stop the mafia xp seepage too, but that's alright.

As for the quest I believe everyone should join in. I will talk to Bret about it, but I can convince those who hadn't in'd already by stating 8 have already applied so the event is on whether you like it or not. We have yet to send the pm but I'm sure I can convince Bret too.

Finally, I should be posting an Aussie joke, or more to it a joke about them Aussies, but I'm late to the party so I will skip it for this time. (I also don't want to be mod-killed by a certain quack)

-Jemaine

[Not Known 15]

For the record- I have joined the quest.

[Flight of the Conchords]

@FOC does 307 makes sense to you?

Yes it does, and personally I am convinced - you broke it down mechanically in the way I was looking for, and make it clear the commitment is for D1 only with a plan to review the appeal of questing as the game progresses.
I still would like to talk to Jemaine, but I think we will be joining you.

- Bret

That's a wrap then. I'm sending the pm now

-Jemaine

[Farkset]

Personally i think if the quest is guaranteed to succeed (13p = 7 people to hammer the quest success), everyone else should join regardless of their opinion on quests.

-Farkran

[Lady Chloe]

springlullaby,

I'm uncomfortable attaching the word "balance" to a game with thread and role mechanics that I'm both unfamiliar with and don't have a grand reference of sorting out.

Mafia could have Roleblock, but the principle of allowing Mafia an additional mechanical chance is counterproductive. I agree that town having a likelier chance of acquiring the item is a protown reason to Quest. I believe you have an optimistic viewpoint of this game, so it occurs to me that you may be quite genuine and reassures me of your motivation.

In any case, I have Quested.

I am remaining firmly on Disable Strongman.

My next posts will revolve around Capture/Not Capture and a readslist.

[Flight of the Conchords]

OK I've been thinking over some things. First, I change my mind, disable strongman is the way to go. Second, I don't trust Spring's agenda so I'm leaving the quest.

If you're town you should be in it to have your own impact on it. As I said, the event is on regardless, so why let scum have more weight in decision making?

-Jemaine

[springlullaby]

QUEST PLEDGE LIST DAY 1

Confirmed:

springlullaby
Hectic
Pink Ball
Pine
Raya36
Fark
momo
Not Known 15
Lady Chloe
Flight of the Conchords

Waiting (lame or scum):

Ame
mastina
Ginngie

Leader: springlullaby