Mini 626 - Crew vs. Pigs - GAME OVER!!

forbiddanlight · Post Post #806 (isolation #200) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:03 am

If it wouldn't kill the town, I'd reveal my role PM now, a la Ennui just to get everyone (with the exception of Matin and possibly Goat when he weighs in) to get their heads out of their asses.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #810 (isolation #201) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:05 am

If you do believe I am Ennui's partner, that much should be clear.

I honestly am not sure what to believe. Between you and CAss, you aren't En's partner. But given your role mechanic, you are. (I don't buy both scum groups with BPVs and Watcher/Trackers. I expect some asymetrical roles here). Schroedinger's Scum here. Until we lynch you and open the box, we don't know what to do.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #812 (isolation #202) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:08 am

Relax. I think the scum team is DD/Cass so I'm not thinking you are scum lol...

I know. I couldn't go through with it anyway. It's not to my teams advantage since we lose if I die (or any other townie). Even if we didn't lose, it'd be an assholish thing to do.

Lynching me is not the key to winning here, if you're town. Lynching me simply because darkdude, confirmed scum, is telling you to do so is definitely not the key to winning.

YAY! Intelligence. Sorry I allowed my apathy to get you to L-1. You might still be scum. I don't see Fonz, DD, and Cass as all scum. But Matin's recent action leads me to believe he's not likely scum. I personally think Cass running with DD's claim is very telling. She's the play.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #813 (isolation #203) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:09 am

Please don't even joke about this. I wouldn't invite anyone in this game into another game of mine if they did that and that would make me sad because you are all such good players.

Don't muck with the game's mechanism either in an attempt to be clever OR out of exasperation. Just don't.

I couldn't do it even if it wasn't fucking my team over. I was really pissed at that point that half the "town" was dumb enough (me included for a bit) to trust confirmed scum.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #814 (isolation #204) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:11 am

I do, however, apologize for even saying it. I wouldn't want to compromise a game like that.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #817 (isolation #205) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:16 am

Contradiction. You didn't trust me at all, but you tried to bus Goat anyways thinking it would make you look better. Then when you saw that Matin wasn't buying me, you unvoted because without you bussing, I now have to convince all 3 of the town, as opposed to 2.

No, actually, I was being a moron because I was already entertaining the idea that goat might be scum. The problem is, right now, I'm trying to follow any lynch to end this day. We have a 50% chance of hitting scum. Well, 40% if we discount you. I'm betting on that.

I'm the godfather, and I know the setup contains 2 teams of identical scum pairs. I am the GF and Ennui was the Tracker. You claimed tracker, which was a semi-fake claim because you're actually the scum tracker with FL as the GF.

Why should we believe this?

forbiddanlight · Post Post #818 (isolation #206) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:18 am

It's so patently obvious I'm the vig

I forgot, Fonz had that specification that he could protect non arrest kills. I.e, there is a vig. No one has counterclaimed me, nor has there been a vig dead.

Goat tracked me targeting you and wrecking your vest

Cass roleblocked me and my vig failed N1.

ALso, how the fuck do YOU move from saying your vest doesn't protect from shootings to your vest was taken away from cicero? You are such a liar.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #820 (isolation #207) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:26 am

People would rather believe darkdude then forbiddanlight who has been confirmed in two separate ways? The town almost deserves to lose this game, seriously.

3 ways. Can't forget Fonz's claim soft confirming me. Honestly, that's what completely breaks DD's case on me.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #824 (isolation #208) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:30 am

I guess now we just have to cross our fingers and hope Cass is DD's buddy.

Agreed. If Matin is scum, he deserved the win with the way he played that. Pre emptive congrats if we fucked up.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #829 (isolation #209) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:02 am

FUUUUCK! I still argue that there was a small chance we could have won pending fonz being able to protect himself.

And honestly, reading the past few exchanges, could I REALLY trust Cass after that? But, I guess in the end Goat was the right choice. What would you have done had we lynched him and I shot DD?

forbiddanlight · Post Post #830 (isolation #210) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:03 am

You changed my name cicero. I was Frances

.

Fixed - Cicero

forbiddanlight · Post Post #833 (isolation #211) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:04 am

That's actually hilarious that despite all the doubt...we really had Investigation immune NK immune scum.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #836 (isolation #212) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:05 am

Two vs one endgame, i presume...

Well, yeah, after I realize you had been arrested, it was fail. Yeah...no way really out. If somehow you had lived, we might have stood a chance pending self protects.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #838 (isolation #213) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:07 am

I actually thought you were scum, Forbidden. Please excuse my animosity towards you in the last few pages. That was actually feigned in an attempt to get you lynched.

I don't blame you. I rather fit my role name. I played very hotheadedly and didn't think it through in the end. I was dropping scum tells like no tomorrow. I must say I was pissed at town actually listening to you, myself included. You did the best you could in the end, and I applaud how you used everything you could rather than giving up.

Guys, let's nominate this for "Most enjoyable mini"?

Hell yeah, that was fun. Hopefully I won't fuck up being a vig so hard again.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #840 (isolation #214) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:08 am

Yeah. FL, our only chance there was to shoot one of the other two, and hope the one we shot didn't have a BPV...

I was talking to Goat just now after the reveal. Both had BPVs...Cic used mirror teams.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #844 (isolation #215) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:10 am

btw I did really have a medical problem, that wasn't scum avoidance at all..

My slow play today was waiting for an opening. I twice typed out a post claiming to be Ennui's partner prior to DD doing it and didn't submit it..

Wow, lol.

I thought I had done... Embarassed I no longer suspected Cass by that point.

Nope. It's a shame. Were you around to see the last pages of D3?

forbiddanlight · Post Post #848 (isolation #216) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:13 am

Oh yeah, Cass definitely played best for the town in the end. I wish I had stuck to my guns with trusting her. lynching DD was our best play after all. I should have gone with my plan.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #852 (isolation #217) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:15 am

Exactly. Should have listened to the last spartan!

Never listen to scum and lynch (shoot) all liars. Couldn't have, just policy thar

.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #853 (isolation #218) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:16 am

You all failed, I was laughing so hard...

Go Matin! Go Goatrevolt!

No thanks to you. We were about ready to kill a pig. You were lucky you replaced.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #857 (isolation #219) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:19 am

You would have lost if you lynched DD. Unless Cass got lucky with her roleblock.

How do you figure that?

DD dies. He was en's partner. One kill that night, I'm forgoing my vig. Cass was ready to kill you, so she'd probably have RB'd you. Fonz would have protected me, likely. I don't think you'd get the kill.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #858 (isolation #220) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:20 am

If you listened you would have lynched Goat...

Maybe so. If we hadn't listened we might have lynched Matin. Either way, your ending shots screwed both us and yourself.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #863 (isolation #221) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:23 am

If we had done it early on in the day, Cass would have probably roleblocked the Fonz. I would have submitted the kill on Cass. We could have snuck the kill through no problems.

I didn't come up with the plan til everyone started wondering about you and Matin.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #869 (isolation #222) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:28 am

Now the quote that everyone missed (me too)

I didn't miss that. That's what had me thinking DD was En's partner in the first place.

Matin was obv scum, im shocked you guys didnt lynch him with a DD vig last night, it would of left the last scum, Cass or Goat (Really, Fonz!?) with a F3 endgame.

Because we were stupid, namely myself, because I refused to trust scum who actually WAS trying to scrape a town win.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #871 (isolation #223) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:29 am

I was wondering if you were call me out as scum forbiddan for killing Llama/Kison, who were both spies players.

NKs are a WIFOM fest. I'm not going to base many conclusions off an NK.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #873 (isolation #224) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:30 am

I think the idea behind the game was for the cops to arrest each other. Seems like the only way we really would have had a chance.

Actually, there was still a lot of winning scenario we pissed away at the end there.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #876 (isolation #225) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:33 am

We already knew you were Ennui's partner. It was just vastly to our advantage to force down a Cubsfan mislynch instead.

This is true. And I was too busy coasting to try to correct them. I should have stuck on DD.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #879 (isolation #226) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:36 am

My plan in the end was to either let town win or salvage my own victory should the unlikely circumstances arise.

Well, I can see that given hindsight is 20/20. I'm still amazed you didn't realize that I was super confirmed given Cass, Fonz', and Goat's backing me up. We couldn't all be scum.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #882 (isolation #227) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:37 am

But why track me Night 2 then?

Vig hunting. It was clear I was going to target you, though I was tempted to fuck around with that and hit someone else anyway.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #885 (isolation #228) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:41 am

- A half strength vigilante who would need to pierce the bulletproof vest twice to kill scum, but who, yes would kill town with just one shot.

Personally, I feel this was useless. I might as well have been a townie. I mean, one could argue my shot becomes a GF proof investigation after I figure out all scum are one shot BPV'd, but by the time that was obvious it was way too late. I don't think you'd get as many guards as you'd think. 3 killing groups, all set up to one shot kill town, in my opinion, was too strong, and it was damn good that both my kills failed.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #887 (isolation #229) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:42 am

Oh, I really did doubt that though. Goat's confirmation, as I said, can't be trusted because he was scum tracker. Cass blocked you Night 1, but that doesn't mean anything if you were scum, because you wouldn't have had that vig kill anyways.

Yeah, but it would imply there wouldn't have been a kill that night. But either way, the third one given the Fonz' rules, should have sold you.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #894 (isolation #230) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:44 am

- Maybe I shouldn't have notified FBL that her vigging failed by PM. Just save it for the thread?

Maybe...I don't know for sure though. Confirming there was a vig would make things dicier for me. It was a risky claim for me to make D3 even though it was true, and that lent to my being confirmed. However, I think I would have preferred that, since it would give everyone a better idea what went on.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #897 (isolation #231) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:47 am

Yeah. I think 1 BPV per scumteam was balanced.

Like i said, with BPV all round, the vig is actually negative value for town.

This. If there were two non BPV'd cops one for each team, my role suddenly becomes useful and the balance is pretty good.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #900 (isolation #232) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:49 am

No but you see, I thought Cass could only block the arrest if FL was chosen to make that arrest. It could have been Goat.

Or did I read wrong?

That's possible, which is why Cass wasn't enough, I agree. But the Fonz angle should have sold you.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #904 (isolation #233) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:51 am

So, either way, fun none the less. But next time I'm a vig, I wanna KILL SHIT!

forbiddanlight · Post Post #907 (isolation #234) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:52 am

Despite no crosskills, the town was so close to winning. You were one vote away from lynching me and winning the game.

Then darkie would have pressed the case on me. I would have been lynched after you were shown scum. There would be 2 kills that night unless Cass honestly thought I wasn't scum (not likely).

forbiddanlight · Post Post #909 (isolation #235) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:54 am

What, the part where he said he could also protect from shootings and not only arrests?

Yep. You can't say both Fonz AND Goat were my partners.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #916 (isolation #236) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:57 am

how would darkie have pressed the case on me when he was dead from your vig shot?

You lynch me. You shoot DD, and Matin is the obvious lynch the next day.

I get roleblocked, or Fonz protects, I get lynched for some godforsaken reason being linked to you.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #918 (isolation #237) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:59 am

Only based on interpretation though. I mean by that logic I should have figured from my role PM there was a vig, you know, with the ninjutsu and all that. But I thought it was cicero's way or obscuring our guesses at possible factions just by looking at the flavour text.

I claimed vig. No counterclaim. I'd been tracked (though he actually watched you), I'd been roleblocked, and it was pretty clear from my early certainty there was a vig that I was she. Seriously, I'm amazed you thought scum past all that.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #920 (isolation #238) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:00 am

If Ennui survived better then I was planning for him to hunt down those who reacted scummy to my claim. But it didn't work out, obviously.

So do you guys think my claim was good or not?

It was clever, but you needed to play a lot more pro town to pull it off better. Most of your moves were selfish and somewhat scummy, but no one wanted to lynch you because you were bulletproof.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #923 (isolation #239) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:01 am

I was going to arrest you though.

Yeah, that's possible too. It depends on what Cass and Fonz thought. And what would have been the point of arresting me if I were scum? I'd supposedly be bulletproof.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #924 (isolation #240) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:02 am

Would that still happen after you flip scum though? Maybe they would have bought my theory on FL being scumbuddies with you?

Precisely why.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #928 (isolation #241) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:05 am

If you were scum then that means the vig kill never happened. I may have had enough time to kill you if we both had BPVs...

No, you'd have had to have tried to arrest me once already. No arrests were missed. If I were scum you were fucked. But yeah, that's true, the logic works the same way. Cross arrests would result in No kill that night.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #932 (isolation #242) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:22 am

Well actually, town could still have won because they had a doctor and a blocker (assuming Matin was vanilla).

Yep, lol.

forbiddanlight · Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:49 am

I love how I am very carefully excluded from any complimenting here out of the last townies. It's fine, I know my play sucked, but I'd also like opinions on how to improve it.

forbiddanlight · Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:58 am

I didn't think your play was that bad, but you definitely trusted me a bit too much. You probably shouldn't have taken my "I'm a goat not a pig" defense at face value.

Haha, I still ended up suspected by at least half the town by D1, and possibly D2. And yeah, trusting you based on your support of my claim wasn't smart.

I went out of my way to specifically exclude you. I wanted to make sure there were no possible positive references made here Smile.

I knew it! Seriously, you need to start walking in games where I make an analysis to just say "wow, that analysis sucked"

.

forbiddanlight · Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:12 am

I would say that you might consider being less impetuous and emotion driven. Maybe go away and count to ten and then come back when deciding things like nightkills and votes. You might have eliminated the darkdude scumteam much earlier if you had shot him instead of going off furious at Llamafluff, for example.

Possibly, though the roleblock thing kinda didn't help much. I did actually reason that llama was seeing vig tells in me. I just didn't consider moving past that and realizing if he knew I was the vig, getting me lynched would be stupid to attempt.

FBL shouldn't have gone round and round with Darkdude - just manipulated him. there was no UNIVERSE in which Fonz was going to doc protect a guy alternately claiming bulletproof vest and/or scum. Fonz is really very experienced.

Hehe, part emotion, part not realizing if Fonz would protect him or not. I didn't know how experienced Fonz was, and I knew the only person I could trust was myself. I also had a niggling feeling Fonz might be scum.

Particularly goatrevolt who manages to look so townie it's scary. Town kept forgetting about Matin and he played under the radar pretty well as well.

It served goat well in spies. Too bad he wasn't a spy or we would have kicked ass

. And yeah, Matin went in and out of radar. Good show on his part.

forbiddanlight · Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:13 am

I think you analyzed well but let your emotions get the best of you at the end there, might have been better to step away for a bit . Very Happy

ps. Not that I blame you, I couldn't believe DD was coming at you that hard, you were as confirmed as you get at the end there lol..

If I actually KEPT a running analysis, my play would probably improve a lot very quickly. I think I'm going to try that in another game I'm in.

forbiddanlight · Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:21 am

And again, Cass played a great game but ultimately left an opening at the end there that allowed us to help FL follow her gut instinct

This is the first time in a while my intuition has been wrong. This whole game it was completely off.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #951 (isolation #248) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:13 pm

Well, we probably would have been more predisposed to listen to you if you grand total of game posts this game hadn't been...12. You weren't pushing the idea enough. If you want something to take and effectively scumhunt, push, push PUSH your view.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #953 (isolation #249) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:22 pm

That's a stupid argument. I mentioned why darkdude was suspicious in every post. It's up to the other players to read the posts and respond accordingly.

I don't think it's stupid. You were nigh lurking. I do agree Day 2 we fucked up incredibly hard. Day one though, you weren't pushing it hard enough, at least in my opinion. I'll see how others weigh in on it.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #957 (isolation #250) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:39 pm

We didn't lynch him because... we believed the vig was going to target him the next two nights, and prove it one way or the other.

Even if I had we would have been screwed cause of the roleblock. That and I rarely follow a plan if I'm not feeling it.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #958 (isolation #251) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:40 pm

I made six posts on why darkdude's claim made no sense... How many does it take before people listen?

60. Or something close to that. People are remarkably stupid. (and yes, I include myself in that)

forbiddanlight · Post Post #960 (isolation #252) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:03 pm

Oh come on, you were voting FL

Given the cop directs this is actually understandable. I screwed up badly suggesting investigating DD.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #962 (isolation #253) » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:20 pm

Haha, it would have been close indeed. That's why despite my slight balance concerns and losing over all I found this to be an enjoyable game.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #972 (isolation #254) » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:38 am

I thought FL was scum from day 1, so it was easy to be convinced she was lying... (In hindsight, my own role pm also points to different types of NK's, I should have paid more attention to that.)

The big problem with me is when I have a role, I tend to give off scumtells. Just an odd thing with the way I play.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #981 (isolation #255) » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:47 am

So why didn't anyone send me the memo!? Yanno, it'd have been nice to realize this.

You know, it's been a couple days now, and I'm still bitter that we had it all figured but lost because i forgot to unvote and FL had a rush of blood to the head.

Don't I know it. I've run about a million draw scenarios through my head for this game, so that even if we killed a townie, if I had had DD's cooperation, we could have pulled a draw off and shot each other in the final night. Which would have been pretty epic, all like "stepping back 10 paces and just going blam blam"