Mini 626 - Crew vs. Pigs - GAME OVER!!

[Goatrevolt]

DD only was obvious as scum after I saw Matin's role and realized that DD claiming bulletproof as a 1-shot NK immune godfather was a decent idea.

If Ennui survived better then I was planning for him to hunt down those who reacted scummy to my claim. But it didn't work out, obviously.

So do you guys think my claim was good or not?

It was a decent claim, but the whole "scum claiming early puts a spotlight on them and we'll eventually catch them later" thing is still true. I stand by everything I said about you on day 1.

The only issue with the claim was that it outed you to the other scum group. The other scum group only had to then do something like suggest you get shot with a vig twice and you were dead. If there hadn't been another scum group with equivalent roles, then it would have likely worked for you.

[darkdude]

Yeah, that's possible too. It depends on what Cass and Fonz thought. And what would have been the point of arresting me if I were scum? I'd supposedly be bulletproof.

If you were scum then that means the vig kill never happened. I may have had enough time to kill you if we both had BPVs...

[darkdude]

The only issue with the claim was that it outed you to the other scum group. The other scum group only had to then do something like suggest you get shot with a vig twice and you were dead. If there hadn't been another scum group with equivalent roles, then it would have likely worked for you.

Yep, I thought of this before me and Ennui swapped role PMs. But even after I concluded that we had 2 identical pairs of scums I still thought it was worth a try. If the other team bought my bluff, it would have prevented them from attempting to NK me...

Though it would be futile against anyone who thought about it for a few moments

[forbiddanlight]

If you were scum then that means the vig kill never happened. I may have had enough time to kill you if we both had BPVs...

No, you'd have had to have tried to arrest me once already. No arrests were missed. If I were scum you were fucked. But yeah, that's true, the logic works the same way. Cross arrests would result in No kill that night.

[darkdude]

If you were scum and we lynched Goat, I would probably kill a town player and force the remaining two players to choose which one of us would win. I doubt we would have been blocked as town was hoping for crosskills.

[Matin]

Yeah. I think 1 BPV per scumteam was balanced.

Like i said, with BPV all round, the vig is actually negative value for town.

Stoofer disagreed. Figured crosskills would have slanted it heavily in favor of town.

What might have worked, and it simply didn't occur to me until it was too late, was to have the vigilante be full strength and have the crosskills only affect arrests. But that also worried me in terms of giving town too much power. This was the compromise. Lots of roles that could block things and lots that could wear down the armor. I (and all the reviewers) thought crosskills in this would have really tilted the balance in favor of town.

imo the game was pretty balanced. The cops just got lucky by not a single cross kill or killing the same person, even with this, it still was very close at the end.. You could run this game again and the town could have a blow out

[darkdude]

Well actually, town could still have won because they had a doctor and a blocker (assuming Matin was vanilla).

Anyways, good game all!

THIS IS SPARTA!!!

[forbiddanlight]

Well actually, town could still have won because they had a doctor and a blocker (assuming Matin was vanilla).

Yep, lol.

[Goatrevolt]

I want to thank Cicero for the awesome game. This is definitely one of the most fun games of mafia I've played. That final day was crazy, and I seriously couldn't make up my mind what I wanted to do...whether to push for Fonz or Cass. Our chance to win relied on us killing one of those two though.

Good job to Matin. I appreciated having a reliable scum buddy, and that hammer on Cass was like the perfect timing. We definitely should have planned for that . Can't argue with a perfect win though!

The town didn't play a great game, but I think Cass played pretty well. I read through her posts last night and was like, there's no way I can frame her with anything because she was so pro-town. It just so happened that the best pro-town play (agreeing with DD) looked scummy enough to force down the lynch. If we didn't force that mislynch right when we did we would have certainly lost if the day dragged on. I think The Fonz looked pretty pro-town as well, and his doc claim and targets made sense and fit with his play.

Thanks all for the great game. I enjoyed every minute of it.

[forbiddanlight]

I love how I am very carefully excluded from any complimenting here out of the last townies. It's fine, I know my play sucked, but I'd also like opinions on how to improve it.

[Goatrevolt]

I love how I am very carefully excluded from any complimenting here out of the last townies. It's fine, I know my play sucked, but I'd also like opinions on how to improve it.

I went out of my way to specifically exclude you. I wanted to make sure there were no possible positive references made here .

I didn't think your play was that bad, but you definitely trusted me a bit too much. You probably shouldn't have taken my "I'm a goat not a pig" defense at face value.

[forbiddanlight]

I didn't think your play was that bad, but you definitely trusted me a bit too much. You probably shouldn't have taken my "I'm a goat not a pig" defense at face value.

Haha, I still ended up suspected by at least half the town by D1, and possibly D2. And yeah, trusting you based on your support of my claim wasn't smart.

I went out of my way to specifically exclude you. I wanted to make sure there were no possible positive references made here Smile.

I knew it! Seriously, you need to start walking in games where I make an analysis to just say "wow, that analysis sucked" .

[Matin]

If Ennui survived better then I was planning for him to hunt down those who reacted scummy to my claim. But it didn't work out, obviously.

So do you guys think my claim was good or not?

Yea, except me having the same role figured you for scum right off the bat. The hard part was trying to figure out how to get you lynched..

I didn't realize death scenes would reveal different precincts and I was hoping the town would consider a SK before another scum team..

[cicero]

I love how I am very carefully excluded from any complimenting here out of the last townies. It's fine, I know my play sucked, but I'd also like opinions on how to improve it.

I don't think you are a bad player FBL. You shouldn't be singled out as the problem by any means. Town's play at the end was a bit problematic. I mean, Fonz should have unvoted as soon as he decided against Cass. Cass should never have intimated an investigatory power she didn't possess thus making her look scummy. but that's the nature of being a townie. You are

uninformed

. So shit gets messy.

I would say that you might consider being less impetuous and emotion driven. Maybe go away and count to ten and then come back when deciding things like nightkills and votes. You might have eliminated the darkdude scumteam much earlier if you had shot him instead of going off furious at Llamafluff, for example.

Also, as a general rule I recommend against locking yourself into a vote with a phrase like "I will not be changing my vote again!" because then you really do sort of let your pride overtake your instincts.

And ultimately, look, other than Ennui, scum played quite well. Goatrevolt and matin played a good game. Particularly goatrevolt who manages to look so townie it's scary. Town kept forgetting about Matin and he played under the radar pretty well as well.

And Darkdude - well hell - he was just plain fun to have in the game. I really wish he hadn't been saddled with such a petulant partner. But he kept playing through with a really great attitude. I really want to give him props for that.

Another random thing: I noticed that town didn't seem quite accepting of the fact that it would need Darkdude on its wagon in order to lynch scum at all on the final day. Fonz says Matin was the play but to my mind once Darkdude started volunteering to be on the goatrevolt lynch, and goatrevolt had claimed watcher/tracker, people should have just piled on. FBL shouldn't have gone round and round with Darkdude - just manipulated him. there was no UNIVERSE in which Fonz was going to doc protect a guy alternately claiming bulletproof vest and/or scum. Fonz is really very experienced.

[Matin]

I love how I am very carefully excluded from any complimenting here out of the last townies. It's fine, I know my play sucked, but I'd also like opinions on how to improve it.

I think you analyzed well but let your emotions get the best of you at the end there, might have been better to step away for a bit .

ps. Not that I blame you, I couldn't believe DD was coming at you that hard, you were as confirmed as you get at the end there lol..

[forbiddanlight]

I would say that you might consider being less impetuous and emotion driven. Maybe go away and count to ten and then come back when deciding things like nightkills and votes. You might have eliminated the darkdude scumteam much earlier if you had shot him instead of going off furious at Llamafluff, for example.

Possibly, though the roleblock thing kinda didn't help much. I did actually reason that llama was seeing vig tells in me. I just didn't consider moving past that and realizing if he knew I was the vig, getting me lynched would be stupid to attempt.

FBL shouldn't have gone round and round with Darkdude - just manipulated him. there was no UNIVERSE in which Fonz was going to doc protect a guy alternately claiming bulletproof vest and/or scum. Fonz is really very experienced.

Hehe, part emotion, part not realizing if Fonz would protect him or not. I didn't know how experienced Fonz was, and I knew the only person I could trust was myself. I also had a niggling feeling Fonz might be scum.

Particularly goatrevolt who manages to look so townie it's scary. Town kept forgetting about Matin and he played under the radar pretty well as well.

It served goat well in spies. Too bad he wasn't a spy or we would have kicked ass . And yeah, Matin went in and out of radar. Good show on his part.

[forbiddanlight]

I think you analyzed well but let your emotions get the best of you at the end there, might have been better to step away for a bit . Very Happy

ps. Not that I blame you, I couldn't believe DD was coming at you that hard, you were as confirmed as you get at the end there lol..

If I actually KEPT a running analysis, my play would probably improve a lot very quickly. I think I'm going to try that in another game I'm in.

[The Fonz]

cicero-

Thing is, i was far more certain on matin-scum than Goatscum. I was like 90% on matin, then probably 70/30 on Cass vs Goat, with like a 10% chance i was being completely snowed and it was FL. To be fair, i probably couldn't override the omgus instinct entirely with Cass.

So i went for the lynch i was more sure of (plus, of course, the weaker role if town). I probably shoulda been more strident in pointing out the fact that goat's claim seemed exactly the same as what Ennui's role had been, but meh.

I think in future, if i'm in a long posting run, like last night was, and go to bed to sleep on it, i'll always unvote so i don't forget where i put it.

[Matin]

I love how I am very carefully excluded from any complimenting here out of the last townies. It's fine, I know my play sucked, but I'd also like opinions on how to improve it.

I don't think you are a bad player FBL. You shouldn't be singled out as the problem by any means. Town's play at the end was a bit problematic. I mean, Fonz should have unvoted as soon as he decided against Cass. Cass should never have intimated an investigatory power she didn't possess thus making her look scummy. but that's the nature of being a townie. You are

uninformed

. So shit gets messy.

I would say that you might consider being less impetuous and emotion driven. Maybe go away and count to ten and then come back when deciding things like nightkills and votes. You might have eliminated the darkdude scumteam much earlier if you had shot him instead of going off furious at Llamafluff, for example.

Also, as a general rule I recommend against locking yourself into a vote with a phrase like "I will not be changing my vote again!" because then you really do sort of let your pride overtake your instincts.

And ultimately, look, other than Ennui, scum played quite well. Goatrevolt and matin played a good game. Particularly goatrevolt who manages to look so townie it's scary. Town kept forgetting about Matin and he played under the radar pretty well as well.

And Darkdude - well hell - he was just plain fun to have in the game. I really wish he hadn't been saddled with such a petulant partner. But he kept playing through with a really great attitude. I really want to give him props for that.

Another random thing: I noticed that town didn't seem quite accepting of the fact that it would need Darkdude on its wagon in order to lynch scum at all on the final day. Fonz says Matin was the play but to my mind once Darkdude started volunteering to be on the goatrevolt lynch, and goatrevolt had claimed watcher/tracker, people should have just piled on. FBL shouldn't have gone round and round with Darkdude - just manipulated him. there was no UNIVERSE in which Fonz was going to doc protect a guy alternately claiming bulletproof vest and/or scum. Fonz is really very experienced.

gah.. ninja'd..

Agreed with most everything in there. Goat played very well with good instincts and bravado. I couldn't believe how hard he went after Ennui immediately after the claim. I figured it out as well, but didn't want to seem too in the know cause I was worried once the town figured out there was 2 scum teams that it'd have been obvious. Ultimately the faux waffling and uncertainty i tried to play didn't work nearly as well as Goat's determination

I knew DD was scum from the minute he claimed, but again, fumbled my way through figuring out how to get him lynched..

And again, Cass played a great game but ultimately left an opening at the end there that allowed us to help FL follow her gut instinct

[forbiddanlight]

And again, Cass played a great game but ultimately left an opening at the end there that allowed us to help FL follow her gut instinct

This is the first time in a while my intuition has been wrong. This whole game it was completely off.

[The Fonz]

Seriously, Cass, don't ever say something like this:

If you're crew, you need to trust me on this one. I have good reasons.

If you DO have information, come out with it.

If you don't, keep schtum and limit your attacks to what you can see in-thread.

[Matin]

If I actually KEPT a running analysis, my play would probably improve a lot very quickly. I think I'm going to try that in another game I'm in.

yea, you just let DD piss you off.. it happens.. I would've gotten pissed too in that spot..

I still can't believe DD actually thought you were scum. I thought DD was still trying to win with that doc protect me stuff and needed to tie you to the more town player to prove his case..

[The Fonz]

Cic, fix that quote tag kthancbai.

[Goatrevolt]

Another random thing: I noticed that town didn't seem quite accepting of the fact that it would need Darkdude on its wagon in order to lynch scum at all on the final day.

Yeah, I could tell people were starting to come to realizations that darkdude was basically a townie for all purposes on the final day. I had to change gears and try to push the idea that Matin was Ennui's scum buddy, not Darkdude.

If people came to the conclusion that Darkdude was Ennui's scum buddy, then Matin automatically becomes the correct lynch. I was planning on going through and basically strawmanning a case on how Matin was Ennui's buddy, not DD, and push attention back on Cass/Fonz.

[Matin]

Yeah, I could tell people were starting to come to realizations that darkdude was basically a townie for all purposes on the final day. I had to change gears and try to push the idea that Matin was Ennui's scum buddy, not Darkdude.

If people came to the conclusion that Darkdude was Ennui's scum buddy, then Matin automatically becomes the correct lynch. I was planning on going through and basically strawmanning a case on how Matin was Ennui's buddy, not DD, and push attention back on Cass/Fonz.

Lol..I was an inch away form claiming it twice, then I saw DD claim it and didn't want to counter claim..

Also couldn't decide how best to try and frame cass..