Mafia 78: Meta Breaking Mafia 1 - Game over!

[Guardian]

I may have access troubles this weekend. I'll PM Adel and tell her to deal with the lynch scene should there be one while I am away.

[Skruffs]

My PM says that me and surye are masons, and that we don't know the other's alignment, loosely translated. No, it does not say that Surye is definitely town. There is a link to a thread. I can talk about hte thread if you want, Surye's first post to it is mostly about making an elaborate code to be used to confirm one as the other's partner if the other one dies. On a scale of 0-100%, there is no indication in the PM that surye is anything, so you would have to look at other games frequency of mason-mafiates to determine the percentage.

Reading through now.

[Adel]

I may have access troubles this weekend. I'll PM Adel and tell her to deal with the lynch scene should there be one while I am away.

Got it.

[shaft.ed]

So I really need to devote more time to this game.

Can we bandwagon Surye already?

so.... still not seeing where this is a good idea...

proven scum that started the wagon jumped off for no good reason when it got serious? How is that not good enough reason?

unvote, vote: surye

So given the not so confirmed nature of your masonhood, why do you think PEG would say this?



Adel often does that to townies as scum. I've been scum with Adel, so i'm 90% positive Surye isn't scum. Seriously, this wagon is useless, and there are no reasons for it...

[shaft.ed]

Totally messed up above.
EBWOP:

So I really need to devote more time to this game.

Can we bandwagon Surye already?

so.... still not seeing where this is a good idea...

proven scum that started the wagon jumped off for no good reason when it got serious? How is that not good enough reason?

unvote, vote: surye

Adel often does that to townies as scum. I've been scum with Adel, so i'm 90% positive Surye isn't scum. Seriously, this wagon is useless, and there are no reasons for it...

So given the not so confirmed nature of your masonhood, why do you think PEG would say this?

[Skruffs]

Okay.
First, you are asking me to explain PEG's meta on Adel, which I can't do. The only game I played in with ADel, she got herself instantly lynched in a nightless game (Open 19). PEG's defense is based on his own experience with Adel, and is not based on his experience with Surye at all.

Sureye officially 'ended' the random vote stage by voting Adel, because Adel voted someone for not random voting. This is an iffy vote, because while it supposedly indicates that Surye is suspicious, there is no reasoning behind it, so he can change his vote later on.
Even though Adel accumulated another vote right after that, he joke-votes Surye in response, completely ignoring the 'call out' on his vote on Camisade.

we figured out that you are scum. Me and ecto and PEG share a brain, and we always share alignment.

This might have been a multilayered breadcrumb for later on in the game; if PEG had gone after Surye or expressed suspicon of him, they could have killed PEG and Adel would have the option of saying he was masons with PEG. On the other hand, if Adel was lynched early, it makes it more likely that ecto (the vig) and PEG (the other mason) are more suspicious.

Continuing on: (Reading as I type through, so expect my train of thought to change as I read more and more)

Immediately after this, Adel posts a nonsense quote from Bladerunner. Surye's response?

I've seen things you wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

I don't know how I could vote for someone who randomly quotes Blade Runner. But some how I will pull through.

Basically Surye voted Adel for acting scummy "as a warning", Adel responded with nonsense, Surye laughs, and then (My guess is) both will 'move on' and forget about it.

Adel pushes more nonsense, Guardian says "Spam", and Surye initiates a new line of thought with:

we figured out that you are scum. Me and ecto and PEG share a brain, and we always share alignment.

Interesting that PEG is associated with a group here, when his vote lies on ABR currently.

Albert[3] (pickemgenius, Elias_the_thief, CoolBot)

This was from the vote count immediately before.

PEG says "STFU", his only response to Adel's breadcrumbing, which is unfortunately ignorant of him. Surye moves on with:

Meta-history and spam seem to be dominating this game.

Time to get down to business, anyone see anything particularly suspicious so far in the game? All I have been able to see is the PEG/Adel/Ecto (as that one was thrown in my face ) and the ABR/PEG connection. Both of these are probably useless.

See? He calls Adel out, allows Adel to make a bunch of gibberish, then moves attention elsewhere. Also, he is pushing the idea that PEG is scum, with Adel (because Adel breadcrumbed it) as well as the ABR/PEG thing (Which I don't get hte reference of). What's interesting is that Surye's vote is currently on Adel but he completely dismisses Adel's 'gibberish' response to being called out and instead takes Adel's cue and tries to get focus on PEG.

Later on:

FoS: Ecto

for being too scummy to be scum.

And now Surye has reasonlessly 'warning' voted Adel, and then pushed attention on BOTH of hte players that Adel claimed to be in a group with. Why? Because if Adel gets lynched (Or NK'd as turns to be the case), Surye has a breadcrumb trail to pick back up to push against Ecto and to a later degree PEG.

Ecto then gets belligerent and Surye pushes suspicion onto him, calling him OMGUSSing him in return. This is interesting because Adel chimes in again:

I call him out, and he responds by just saying he'll vote for me, I thought that was OMGUS. Perhaps I misunderstand, but I'm not sure why else he would say he'd vote me without saying anything else as to why.

actual sequence of events:
1. you voted for me
2. i voted for you
3. ecto voted for you
...
you call OMGUS on Ecto.

does not compute,
advise quicklynch of Surye under LAL

Surye's response:

(repeated quote)

FoS: Ecto

for being too scummy to be scum.

I find it really convenient you left this out of your sequence, since that immediately preceded his call to vote me.

And to justify what I was saying, he's "playing" at having control of this game, that we'll lynch who he wants us to. I found this really suspicious as it allows him to say things with the fall-back of joking.

Deflects attention away from himself onto Ecto (without accusing Adel), while still having hsi vote on Adel. Adel and Surye banter, And adel pulls off hte gibberish mask to point out Surye's flaw:

you didn't call OMGUS on me.

he voted you

BEFORE

you placed a FOS on him.

I normally harass a player I am unfamiliar with in the beginning of a game to get a read, and the read I'm getting off of you is scummy as hell. I expect you see you lynched within a few pages.

Surye's Response:

he voted you

BEFORE

you placed a FOS on him.

Hmm, so you're right, I forgot the vote order since up till now it was mostly non-sense voting, and when he said his vote was on me, for some reason I was thinking he was

threatening

a vote on me.

I don't see how it's scummy as hell though. If his first vote was from the random voting stage, and after I FoS him, he solidifies it into a real vote, I still stand by my OMGUS. If it's not, then that means he actually meant something by his first vote on my, and that sets you and Ecto as having an agenda.

Either way, Ecto is implicated, so I think I'm on the right track, and the way you are responding makes me really suspicious of you.

Again, pushing attention away from himself onto Ectomancer, and even though he is voting Adel and is saying that Adel is acting scummy, he implicates Adel only through the lynching of Ectomancer; basically trying to set up a situation where Ecto will be lynched, come up town, and therefore alleviate Surye's need to be suspicious of Adel.

now

that

is OMGUS.

I do have an agenda: lynching you today. You are my target, and as many of the other players in this game know, I usually get my way on day 1. Any last words?

AT this point, Adel is doing damage control by distancing as much as he can from Surye; Surye is failing to launch, voting without actually being suspicious, claiming suspicion but not pushing a case, etc. Adel is trying to make it less likely that if *either* of them die, the other will look better.

Rosso voices his complaint, tries to change the subject (Why? BEcause two of his partners were voting each other)

(Incidentally shaft.ed, you sided with Adel against Surye)

I agree with Adel. I also found Surye to be trying to hard to look proactive before this broke.

unvote vote: Surye

Would any of the other eleven people signed up for this game like to post?

Yes, I try to provoke discussion, I don't see what's wrong with that. It worked as usual, and as usual, it attracted a lot of attention to me, but if you read what I am saying, you'd see Ecto and Adel are
acting very odd.

And @Adel, how is you defending ecto's OMGUS (you've cleared it up, that's what it was) not suspicious?

Surye defends himself to shaft.ed (he doesn't bother with Adel since he's scum with them)

Later:

Well damn, I hope I'm not lynched for ignorance of their play style, I've just been trying to get the conversation away from game histories and on some scumhunting.

As someone else pointed out, Surye was at L-5. So why the defensiveness and furlornness? Did he think Adel was telling him to bend over and take getting lynched (Adel's posts seem to hint as much)? Did he feel abandoned by his partners (Rosso was not defending either side, again) and was melancholy? No scum wants to be bussed by their own partners day one. When asked why he was being fatalistic:

Because Adel seemed serious about it, and everyone who has posted seems to agree. But looking at it again, that's not that many,

I guess I started feeling a snowball growing behind me for no reason.

Guess I'm getting ahead of myself. But if this is just their play style, then I am not sure what I have for this game yet.

A snowball being started for no reason? That's... that's something that

SCUM

does?! So why wouldn't Surye go after Adel?? The answer may surprise you!! (or it won't)

Adel calls it out for Surye: "*yawn* typical paranoid scum "

Even after seeing no reason behind the wagon on him AND at Adel's goading, Surye focusses on Ectomancer, but otherwise hides with his 'defeated' tail between his legs.

MM pipes in:

I do not like Surye's progression of actions either, he's by far the scummiest player in the game now.

Unvote, Vote: Surye

He puts Surye at -1.

ON TO PAGE SIX!

Unvote, vote Machiavellian-Mafia

putting players at -1 with no warning or explanation ? You sir, need to be lynched.

since when are you against quicklynches?

fos: ABR

Surye's most likely scumbuddy!

Adel hoping to capitalize on the Surye wagon by tying her to townies.
Sury econtinues with "Woe, why am at -1? Was I really that bad? Le sigh."

I didn't even vote anyone once the game got more serious.

How is that even close to anti-town?

Unvote, Vote:Adel

There, we're out of the random voting stage.

trying to revise history

Heh, You think the game was getting serious there?

Ahh! So Surye's vote on Adel wasn't 'serious' at all... it really was just a random vote. So the ignoring of Adel through the next two pages or so in favor of Ecto, who Adel claimed to be in a hgroup with (Jokingly but still a trail) makes more sense.

Even though Adel is being the most obnoviously obvious about trying to get Surye lynched, Surye continues to play nice to Adel, offering no counter inquisition, even recanting the previous distancing that he had done earlier in the game as "Just playing". (post 134)

After ABR (RBer) starts defending Surye (ABR says he is sure Surye is town, but he has no way in game to know this), he even says that if Adel thinks he is scum, to vote him instead.

Adel does so. After Ecto changes focus to MM, Adel agrees as well. Surye, similarly, unvotes Surye and votes Coolbot. He ignores MM, who almost got him lynched. Why? Surye wasn't worried about being quicklynched, as Rosso had already expressed disinterest in going after Surye OR Adel. He acknowledges that MM was scummy, but goes after Coolbot for trying ot get him to claim. Adel immediately moves back to Surye. (PErhaps thinking MM would be more valuable to the team)

Page 7:
Surye again defers to Adel, asking what was wrong. Adel says that Surye is scum, and Surye retorts that Adel didn't answer his question. (WHERE IS THE SUSPICION?! WHERE ARE THE VOTES?!)

Coolbot has begun to earnestly gain votes at this point for trying to get Adel to post. Surye says that sinec two people have unvoted, there's no reason to claim.

FOS: COOL

not feeling a surye lynch.


that is all. Be back in like 48 pages.

Note that even though Cool's pushing for him to claim is potentially threatening PEG's livelihood by outing him as a mason, he is not voting COol. Instead he calmly weighs in. (And as you can see, PEG lurks).

MM weighs in: He was only putting Surye at L-2, not L-1 (which Adel had pointed out earlier.) Pushes attention on the townie defending his scum partner as well as the townie trying to get his scumpartner to claim.

Ecto and ADel both jump on Coolbot.

Ecto tries to convince Rosso to put Coolbot at L-2, and PEG (Me) jumps in to correct him: He actually put hima t L-1 (Not productive for scum to say)

Interesting, while I am appreciative of ABR having my back, I find it interesting that you completely ignored him in your analysis, when he's the one that actively derailed the bandwagon, and began pointing out CoolBot's behavior.

Wow! And yet Surye has been doing this all game, to someone who was *ACTUALLY* attacking *HIM*.

Rosso calls Adel scum, Adel responds with:

people in glass houses, something something, shouldn't throw axes at people stirring the pot, or else a kettle will call you back.

Important to note:

Rosso Carne disliked it when Adel and Surye were fighting, but when Coolbot had a wagon, he perked up and wanted to be interested in it, but needed someone else to give him a reason for it.

I have lost my steam since page 13, and was hoping to finish at least day one.

I really think that you, SHaft.ed, should read pages 3-10, at least ,to see how hte players interacted with each other.

Vote: Surye

as shaft.ed has not hammered me. IE if he's s cum, he can win at any point he wants. But Surye and Adel's interactions day one, and rosso and MM's reactions to that vs coolbot and aBR, indicate that Surye is scum. (Unless you think the entire mafia team deliberately picked one player to quasi bus/defend/distance/et), which rosso is not interested in games enough to do.

[Skruffs]

Totally messed up above.
EBWOP:

So I really need to devote more time to this game.

Can we bandwagon Surye already?

so.... still not seeing where this is a good idea...

proven scum that started the wagon jumped off for no good reason when it got serious? How is that not good enough reason?

unvote, vote: surye

]b]Adel often does that to townies as scum.[/b] I've been scum with Adel, so i'm 90% positive Surye isn't scum. Seriously, this wagon is useless, and there are no reasons for it...

So given the not so confirmed nature of your masonhood, why do you think PEG would say this?

I already answered this question, but went ahead and bolded the part in PEG's response where he explains his reasoning. Let me put it to you this way, though; if PEG was scum, it would not benefit him to defend his mason buddy early in the day. PEG paid hardly any attention to this game (Which he never does), and you need to look at the game in context: What was going on when PEG said that? I'm assuming it's at the beginning of day two, after Adel showed up as scum, and people were looking for their next victim. PEG would not benefit from NOT defending his mason as scum OR as town.

[shaft.ed]

as shaft.ed has not hammered me. IE if he's s cum, he can win at any point he wants. But Surye and Adel's interactions day one, and rosso and MM's reactions to that vs coolbot and aBR, indicate that Surye is scum. (Unless you think the entire mafia team deliberately picked one player to quasi bus/defend/distance/et), which rosso is not interested in games enough to do.

Thanks for the analysis. If not for the Day 1 intereactions with Surye, I would have already lynched you. I'm going to reread the scum in this game and see if I can pick up anything else. Also look to meta Surye. His blatant double bus'ing seems very ballsy for a newb scum.

[Adel]

Totally Unnecessary Vote Count #47

Skruffs[1] (Surye)
Surye[1] (Skruffs)

Not Voting[2] (shaft.ed)

~~~

Deadline for Day 6 has not yet been set by Guardian.

[shaft.ed]

sweet I get two votes!

Surye needs to play more games as scum I cannot meta him.

I really don't see my vote going towards Surye, but I shall hold off to see if anyone has more info to add. Also I hate being the deciding factor in a game that last many months.

Adel I think the deadline was for Sunday, but a mild extension would be nice since Surye is out of town.

[Adel]

Deadline will hit this time in 4 days.

I missed this post. My role in this game is strictly limited to posting vote-counts and death scenes.

Feel free to PM Guardian. If the deadline passes before he returns, I will let him deal with it. If he got attacked by rabid ducks and fails to return, I'll turn the game over to someone who doesn't have a conflict of interest.

[shaft.ed]

OK can you tell me who the scum is then

I'm gonna sleep on it and put my vote up before deadline then.

[Guardian]

I will be back for deadline, no worries.

[Surye]

I have some time before I head out to the con, so I'll pick apart some of this nonsense, and get back to the rest if I can tonight. I wanted to make sure I wasn't completely absent in the last days of the deadline.

Okay.
First, you are asking me to explain PEG's meta on Adel, which I can't do. The only game I played in with ADel, she got herself instantly lynched in a nightless game (Open 19). PEG's defense is based on his own experience with Adel, and is not based on his experience with Surye at all.

Sureye officially 'ended' the random vote stage by voting Adel, because Adel voted someone for not random voting. This is an iffy vote, because while it supposedly indicates that Surye is suspicious, there is no reasoning behind it, so he can change his vote later on.
Even though Adel accumulated another vote right after that, he joke-votes Surye in response, completely ignoring the 'call out' on his vote on Camisade.

we figured out that you are scum. Me and ecto and PEG share a brain, and we always share alignment.

This might have been a multilayered breadcrumb for later on in the game; if PEG had gone after Surye or expressed suspicon of him, they could have killed PEG and Adel would have the option of saying he was masons with PEG. On the other hand, if Adel was lynched early, it makes it more likely that ecto (the vig) and PEG (the other mason) are more suspicious.

Continuing on: (Reading as I type through, so expect my train of thought to change as I read more and more)

Immediately after this, Adel posts a nonsense quote from Bladerunner. Surye's response?

I've seen things you wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

I don't know how I could vote for someone who randomly quotes Blade Runner. But some how I will pull through.

Basically Surye voted Adel for acting scummy "as a warning", Adel responded with nonsense, Surye laughs, and then (My guess is) both will 'move on' and forget about it.

This first bit is about some day one spam. I don't know why he thinks that me enjoying something from someone I thought made a scummy move means anything, especially since it didn't actually effect my vote or anythings. Grasping for straws already.

Adel pushes more nonsense, Guardian says "Spam", and Surye initiates a new line of thought with:

we figured out that you are scum. Me and ecto and PEG share a brain, and we always share alignment.

Interesting that PEG is associated with a group here, when his vote lies on ABR currently.

Albert[3] (pickemgenius, Elias_the_thief, CoolBot)

This was from the vote count immediately before.

PEG says "STFU", his only response to Adel's breadcrumbing, which is unfortunately ignorant of him. Surye moves on with:

Meta-history and spam seem to be dominating this game.

Time to get down to business, anyone see anything particularly suspicious so far in the game? All I have been able to see is the PEG/Adel/Ecto (as that one was thrown in my face ) and the ABR/PEG connection. Both of these are probably useless.

See? He calls Adel out, allows Adel to make a bunch of gibberish, then moves attention elsewhere. Also, he is pushing the idea that PEG is scum, with Adel (because Adel breadcrumbed it) as well as the ABR/PEG thing (Which I don't get hte reference of). What's interesting is that Surye's vote is currently on Adel but he completely dismisses Adel's 'gibberish' response to being called out and instead takes Adel's cue and tries to get focus on PEG.

Later on:

FoS: Ecto

for being too scummy to be scum.

And now Surye has reasonlessly 'warning' voted Adel, and then pushed attention on BOTH of hte players that Adel claimed to be in a group with. Why? Because if Adel gets lynched (Or NK'd as turns to be the case), Surye has a breadcrumb trail to pick back up to push against Ecto and to a later degree PEG.

Ecto then gets belligerent and Surye pushes suspicion onto him, calling him OMGUSSing him in return. This is interesting because Adel chimes in again:

I call him out, and he responds by just saying he'll vote for me, I thought that was OMGUS. Perhaps I misunderstand, but I'm not sure why else he would say he'd vote me without saying anything else as to why.

actual sequence of events:
1. you voted for me
2. i voted for you
3. ecto voted for you
...
you call OMGUS on Ecto.

does not compute,
advise quicklynch of Surye under LAL

Surye's response:

(repeated quote)

FoS: Ecto

for being too scummy to be scum.

I find it really convenient you left this out of your sequence, since that immediately preceded his call to vote me.

And to justify what I was saying, he's "playing" at having control of this game, that we'll lynch who he wants us to. I found this really suspicious as it allows him to say things with the fall-back of joking.

Deflects attention away from himself onto Ecto (without accusing Adel), while still having hsi vote on Adel. Adel and Surye banter, And adel pulls off hte gibberish mask to point out Surye's flaw:

you didn't call OMGUS on me.

he voted you

BEFORE

you placed a FOS on him.

I normally harass a player I am unfamiliar with in the beginning of a game to get a read, and the read I'm getting off of you is scummy as hell. I expect you see you lynched within a few pages.

Surye's Response:

he voted you

BEFORE

you placed a FOS on him.

Hmm, so you're right, I forgot the vote order since up till now it was mostly non-sense voting, and when he said his vote was on me, for some reason I was thinking he was

threatening

a vote on me.

I don't see how it's scummy as hell though. If his first vote was from the random voting stage, and after I FoS him, he solidifies it into a real vote, I still stand by my OMGUS. If it's not, then that means he actually meant something by his first vote on my, and that sets you and Ecto as having an agenda.

Either way, Ecto is implicated, so I think I'm on the right track, and the way you are responding makes me really suspicious of you.

Again, pushing attention away from himself onto Ectomancer, and even though he is voting Adel and is saying that Adel is acting scummy, he implicates Adel only through the lynching of Ectomancer; basically trying to set up a situation where Ecto will be lynched, come up town, and therefore alleviate Surye's need to be suspicious of Adel.

I already defended this, I missed the order of some events, and had a poor understanding of OMGUS. See my comments at the time for my same reasoning.

now

that

is OMGUS.

I do have an agenda: lynching you today. You are my target, and as many of the other players in this game know, I usually get my way on day 1. Any last words?

AT this point, Adel is doing damage control by distancing as much as he can from Surye; Surye is failing to launch, voting without actually being suspicious, claiming suspicion but not pushing a case, etc. Adel is trying to make it less likely that if *either* of them die, the other will look better.

Rosso voices his complaint, tries to change the subject (Why? BEcause two of his partners were voting each other)

(Incidentally shaft.ed, you sided with Adel against Surye)

I agree with Adel. I also found Surye to be trying to hard to look proactive before this broke.

unvote vote: Surye

Would any of the other eleven people signed up for this game like to post?

Yes, I try to provoke discussion, I don't see what's wrong with that. It worked as usual, and as usual, it attracted a lot of attention to me, but if you read what I am saying, you'd see Ecto and Adel are
acting very odd.

And @Adel, how is you defending ecto's OMGUS (you've cleared it up, that's what it was) not suspicious?

Surye defends himself to shaft.ed (he doesn't bother with Adel since he's scum with them)

Or scum saw a floundering townie, and knew it would be easy to mislynch? It's really too bad I can't actually analyze PEG in these situations, how well he ensured such a debate would be one-sided.

Later:

Well damn, I hope I'm not lynched for ignorance of their play style, I've just been trying to get the conversation away from game histories and on some scumhunting.

As someone else pointed out, Surye was at L-5. So why the defensiveness and furlornness? Did he think Adel was telling him to bend over and take getting lynched (Adel's posts seem to hint as much)? Did he feel abandoned by his partners (Rosso was not defending either side, again) and was melancholy? No scum wants to be bussed by their own partners day one. When asked why he was being fatalistic:

Because Adel seemed serious about it, and everyone who has posted seems to agree. But looking at it again, that's not that many,

I guess I started feeling a snowball growing behind me for no reason.

Guess I'm getting ahead of myself. But if this is just their play style, then I am not sure what I have for this game yet.

A snowball being started for no reason? That's... that's something that

SCUM

does?! So why wouldn't Surye go after Adel?? The answer may surprise you!! (or it won't)

Adel calls it out for Surye: "*yawn* typical paranoid scum "

Even after seeing no reason behind the wagon on him AND at Adel's goading, Surye focusses on Ectomancer, but otherwise hides with his 'defeated' tail between his legs.

MM pipes in:

I do not like Surye's progression of actions either, he's by far the scummiest player in the game now.

Unvote, Vote: Surye

He puts Surye at -1.

ON TO PAGE SIX!

Unvote, vote Machiavellian-Mafia

putting players at -1 with no warning or explanation ? You sir, need to be lynched.

since when are you against quicklynches?

fos: ABR

Surye's most likely scumbuddy!

Adel hoping to capitalize on the Surye wagon by tying her to townies.
Sury econtinues with "Woe, why am at -1? Was I really that bad? Le sigh."

I didn't even vote anyone once the game got more serious.

How is that even close to anti-town?

Unvote, Vote:Adel

There, we're out of the random voting stage.

trying to revise history

Heh, You think the game was getting serious there?

Ahh! So Surye's vote on Adel wasn't 'serious' at all... it really was just a random vote. So the ignoring of Adel through the next two pages or so in favor of Ecto, who Adel claimed to be in a hgroup with (Jokingly but still a trail) makes more sense.

Now who's using a false dichotomy? Either a vote is random, or it's serious? Nay sir. You even said your self it was a warning vote for a scummy move, which is distinctly different from finding scum, and voting them with the intent to drive a lynch. When the game is not completely formed and serious, the former works well.

Even though Adel is being the most obnoviously obvious about trying to get Surye lynched, Surye continues to play nice to Adel, offering no counter inquisition, even recanting the previous distancing that he had done earlier in the game as "Just playing". (post 134)

After ABR (RBer) starts defending Surye (ABR says he is sure Surye is town, but he has no way in game to know this), he even says that if Adel thinks he is scum, to vote him instead.

His reasons were meta. I think that has been most of what you've held up until this post, no? And since this post is all you have to offer, I'm not sure which is worse.

Adel does so. After Ecto changes focus to MM, Adel agrees as well. Surye, similarly, unvotes Surye and votes Coolbot. He ignores MM, who almost got him lynched. Why? Surye wasn't worried about being quicklynched, as Rosso had already expressed disinterest in going after Surye OR Adel. He acknowledges that MM was scummy, but goes after Coolbot for trying ot get him to claim. Adel immediately moves back to Surye. (PErhaps thinking MM would be more valuable to the team)

Page 7:
Surye again defers to Adel, asking what was wrong. Adel says that Surye is scum, and Surye retorts that Adel didn't answer his question. (WHERE IS THE SUSPICION?! WHERE ARE THE VOTES?!)

Oh, so first you say I'm a hard busser, then I am afraid to vote or suspect a scum buddy?

Coolbot has begun to earnestly gain votes at this point for trying to get Adel to post. Surye says that sinec two people have unvoted, there's no reason to claim.

FOS: COOL

not feeling a surye lynch.


that is all. Be back in like 48 pages.

Note that even though Cool's pushing for him to claim is potentially threatening PEG's livelihood by outing him as a mason, he is not voting COol. Instead he calmly weighs in. (And as you can see, PEG lurks).

Calmly weighs in. Huh, interesting wording. As I see it, it was passive non-playing. And adding weight to a wagon to lynch a townie without being on the vote count. FYI, weighing in usually has WEIGHT. Not something so non-content as just an FOS. Nice try.

MM weighs in: He was only putting Surye at L-2, not L-1 (which Adel had pointed out earlier.) Pushes attention on the townie defending his scum partner as well as the townie trying to get his scumpartner to claim.

Ecto and ADel both jump on Coolbot.

Ecto tries to convince Rosso to put Coolbot at L-2, and PEG (Me) jumps in to correct him: He actually put hima t L-1 (Not productive for scum to say)

Interesting, while I am appreciative of ABR having my back, I find it interesting that you completely ignored him in your analysis, when he's the one that actively derailed the bandwagon, and began pointing out CoolBot's behavior.

Wow! And yet Surye has been doing this all game, to someone who was *ACTUALLY* attacking *HIM*.

More of this loving Adel stuff? Meh, I thought she was honestly scum hunting, and I did pose questions to her, as you stated, and insisted she answer them, just as you stated.

Rosso calls Adel scum, Adel responds with:

people in glass houses, something something, shouldn't throw axes at people stirring the pot, or else a kettle will call you back.

Important to note:

Rosso Carne disliked it when Adel and Surye were fighting, but when Coolbot had a wagon, he perked up and wanted to be interested in it, but needed someone else to give him a reason for it.

Congratulations, you just proved Rosso was scum. A few pages late I'm afraid.

I have lost my steam since page 13, and was hoping to finish at least day one.

I really think that you, SHaft.ed, should read pages 3-10, at least ,to see how hte players interacted with each other.

Vote: Surye

as shaft.ed has not hammered me. IE if he's s cum, he can win at any point he wants. But Surye and Adel's interactions day one, and rosso and MM's reactions to that vs coolbot and aBR, indicate that Surye is scum. (Unless you think the entire mafia team deliberately picked one player to quasi bus/defend/distance/et), which rosso is not interested in games enough to do.

I hope shaft.ed can see through this nonsense. I'll be gone till late tonight, I will probably end up partying down town tonight after the con, and so will not be around till late tomorrow or Monday. Too bad I couldn't do an analysis of PEG. That would have been nice. If only he posted.

[Surye]

Doh, forgot to preview, sorry, I messed up the end quote after "Or scum saw a floundering townie, and knew it would be easy to mislynch? It's really too bad I can't actually analyze PEG in these situations, how well he ensured such a debate would be one-sided." If a mod wants to fix it, cool, if not, I think you can figure it out, it's just one block of quotes, it seems to fix itself.

[Skruffs]

At work but will respond tonight. One point I want to make is the difference between rosso's reaction to adel(scum)/surye vs his reaction to coolbot(town)/surye. Ie, stated disinterest to either side in the former, interest towards the townie in the second.

mod: request deadline extension

I need to look at how surye set up yesterday to make sure that peg looked bad so he could safely bus MM (who cooperated), the knowledge of two scum, etc. Not enough time as it is yet.

[shaft.ed]

well Skruffs, sorry for wasting your time and thanks a lot for the effort you put forth. I hope you aren't actually town cause that would be very very bad, but looking back at the events around the Rosso wagon, I just don't buy Surye scum hard bus'ing there. Since I don't knw if I'll be on again before deadline.

vote: Skruffs

[Skruffs]

AH.
I signed on to finish my post, but, it looks like you already ended the game.
I had already pointed out how Surye tried to start bussing Adel day one, but then balked when ADel came back with both guns firing. I wish you had actually looked and saw what happened instead of trying to place an inaccurate meta on Surye that he wouldn't bus.

[Guardian]

Vote Count #48 -- End of Game Vote Count

Skruffs[2] (Surye, shaft.ed)
Surye[1] (Skruffs)


Not Voting[0]: ()

~~~

Skruffs is lynched by a full majority.

Skruffs

was a

town mason

.

shaft.ed

was a

townie

and is endgamed.

Surye

was a

scum mason

. Scum win!

[Guardian]

Game Layout and Actions

Roles:
Scum:
1-3) 3 mafia
4) 1 mafia (daytalking) mason
Town:
5) 1 cop (sane, not confirmed)
6) 1 doctor (1 self protect, never used)
7) 1 compulsive (can't self kill) vigilante (doesn't show up as SK)
8.) 1 fbi agent (finds any SKs)
9) 1 (daytalking) mason
10) 1 role-blocker
11-15) 5 townies

Scum:
1. 9)Adel
2. 6)Rosso Carne
3. 15)Machiavellian-Mafia
4. 2)Surye
Town:
5. 4)Tarhalindur
6. 14)farside22
7. 7)Ectomancer
8. 8-camisade
9. 12)pickemgenius
10. 10)Albert
11. 1)Kison
12. 11)shaft.ed
13. 3)the silent speaker
14. 5)Cool Bot
15. 13)elias_the_thief

Mason and scum chat:
http://www.quicktopic.com/41/H/X3rsTR7R5GV8
http://www.quicktopic.com/41/H/eTEaCFuCTXKL9

Night 1:
tar -> cop(abr) [innocent]
gorrad -> kill(adel)
albert -> block(M-M)
farside/toasterstrudel -> protect(elias_the_thief)
camisdae -> SK(rosso) [no]
surye -> kill(ABR)

Night 2:
tar -> cop(shaft.ed) [innocent]
gorrad -> kill(xtoxm)
toasterstrudel -> protect(tarhalindur)
xtoxm -> sk(gorrad)[dead, (WOULD have been YES!)]
M-M -> kill(tarhalindur)

Night 3:
tar -> cop(TS) [innocent]
gorrad -> kill (tss)
dgb -> protect(tarhalindur)

surye-> kill(kison)

Night 4 and onwards actions are obvious from reading the game. The role PMs were pretty standard and the function of the roles was included in the role descriptions.

[Guardian]

Commentary

Well, I think a well deserved win for Surye, and the rest of the scum team on his coattails. I think the scum played comparatively pretty badly as opposed to the town's awesome play day 1 and 2. Night 1 almost was game breaking for the town, the night actions were so close to being perfect. The town then sort of self destructed, then, it seems.

I don't think anyone really read or understood the purpose of this game, and that saddens me

. I tried to say clearly it was intended to be a game with standard roles but in awkward combinations. It was meant to be something of a fake out, in that there

were

no two-of a kind roles, but there could have been. However, there was the fbi agent and vigilante, the town roleblocker with no scum power roles, etc.

However, the town decided to lynch the vigilante since there was an FBI agent, and a scum decided to fake claim insane day cop... neither of which really made sense with how I intended for the game to go on.

I'd say this game Surye played a really good game, utilized his role well and strove towards the end. He told his partner in the mason chat that he intended to claim vanilla, and that seemed like a strong scum tell to me, but neither peg or Skruffs seized on it. Surye also missed a night action waiting for MM, which was unfortunate for his side.

There were many slip ups on both sides, really, and I don't want to be a dick and go into them.

If I run something like this again, I'd want to refer players to this commentary and allow them to ask any questions about the setup before roles were assigned, so they understand what to expect better.

I also wouldn't do deadlines like this again; three week every day is just better and more consistent. Maybe # of living players + 8 would work as well.

I welcome any constructive comments, and I hope you all had a fun time playing the game.

Thanks to the backup mods, replacements, and players who stuck through it. Especially thanks to Adel and the near-end replacements who helped me save the game from a town loss purely due to inactivity.

[Surye]

Skruffs, thanks for making my win feel worthy, I thought you had me. But since the Rosso distancing, I had been working on getting shaft.ed on my side with things. The Kison night kill was unfortunate, I was waiting for MM, forgot about the deadline, and the doc survived another night.

I don't think I can ever bus as hard as I did in this game, but it was fun to do ;P

As for the format, the town was so resistive to setup speculation, it was hard to talk about what was meta breaking, every time I tried to use meta breaking to my advantage, town would go back to bastard mod-ery.

I'm still pretty new to this game, but I learned a lot playing this game, thanks to everyone for participating.

[Kison]

You're right. I also was guilty of resisting the idea that things may not have been what they appeared to be. Scum-Town mason pairings are not something you see every day - perfect for a 'meta-breaking' game.

[shaft.ed]

Nice game Surye, that was a very nice bus.

Very sorry Skruffs, you put in a lot of effort for replacing so late. PEG left you in a bad spot.

Did I mention I'm not a fan of deciding the end game?

[Surye]

Nice game Surye, that was a very nice bus.

Very sorry Skruffs, you put in a lot of effort for replacing so late. PEG left you in a bad spot.

Did I mention I'm not a fan of deciding the end game?

I've been a decider in endgame twice, and botched it both times, I feel your pain.