Newbie 655: Zeroville. (Game Over!)

[J_Slr]

Got it

Greetings M4yhem

[J_Slr]

Claiming 1st post spot

Also Greetings all

Am looking forward to this.

[J_Slr]

Oh and a question to the experienced players:

what is a sane cop?

[J_Slr]

was a little overwhelmed, getting first post and all

Vote MichelSableheart

[J_Slr]

Thanks, I will assume then that the other is an insane cop.

m4yhem, you are obviously an IC, who is the other IC?

[J_Slr]

Nothing says scum like a random vote, Tony.

False.

99% of games start with a random voting stage, which

everybody

participates in because it's a good way to start conversation.

unvote, Vote: The Pope's Tiara

Love your username btw.

What happens in the other 1% of games?

[J_Slr]

Vote: WhereIsTony

Nothing says scum like a random vote, Tony.

And voting for you was not random it was "near random"

I wanted to vote for someone who had not posted yet to see how they would react.

I do find your reaction troubling though, not "proof of scum" troubling but troubling nonetheless

Normally yes, worth noting unfortunately I have to ask myself, is Pope's Tiara nervous because It(you have no gender I can see) is new?

btw Tony, I like the evil looking bear, I bet you wanted to be scum.

[J_Slr]

I know, though I am generally inclined to vote for people that have not pitched or later in the game choose to lurk!

[J_Slr]

I know, though I am generally inclined to vote for people that have not pitched or later in the game choose to lurk!

EBWOP: nvm, I see you voted before Pope's Tiara pitched up

*is red in the face*

[J_Slr]

Hi there! I'm unsure of what to do myself, being first game and all. So I wonder if it's okay just to watch people discuss a little more before deciding on who to vote, or is this an action frowned upon?

If you do not feel up to it, you do not have to vote, but making yourself heard, asking a few questions and taking part is much better, than lurking (an action that is frowned upon).

Lurking implies you are hiding something, either a useful townie role or scum. Which makes you a target for a lynch by day or if you are not scum, a NK target. Also without any input, how can people work out whether they can trust you or not?

[J_Slr]

I see, thank you all for the clarification! I've seen some friends playing offline in a variant of this game, but generally they voted based on the previous knowledge they had from the person. As this is pretty much impossible in a newbie's game, where the people don't know each other, I was wondering how you'd do that in the first day.

I have watched mafia on another forum, and they discovered that when people base votes/speculation on previous games, its silly and rarely productive. So more often than not they use alts, and have very strange roles.

Maybe this place is different, but from what I have seen its better to base things on what people are doing in the current game.

[J_Slr]

If you guys really want to get rid of me that badly, then what can I do to stop you? All I could tell you is that I am a vanilla townie. If I was a super townie, then the mob would just kill me. If I was mafia, then it wouldn't behoove me to tell you such.

Mob mentality is a crazy thing, and seeing that there will be blood, I will not take part in a random lynching.

Unvote, Vote: No Lynch

Who said anything about a random lynching?
(maybe I have missed something)

The day 1 voting is random initially, that is to get reactions and see what people do.

As there is no time limit on each day there is no point in random a lynch. With 9 players and 2 scum, the chances of a random lynch being any good is next to nothing.

Now looking back at your posts, I would say you have been feeling pressured, because you picked up a few votes. Relax, we will only lynch you if we feel you are scum (or the scum make us believe you are).

Personally I do not believe you are scum, I think you are jumping at shadows, why? I am not sure, maybe its nerves or maybe you are hiding something, but regardless this brings attention, the wrong kind, so calm down. Have a little fun. Read the posts that have been made. You see anything you think is dodgy, say something.

Unvote

- my vote is pointless at this time as the only inactive player I have noticed is hohum.

[J_Slr]

So at the moment, WhereIsTony and Pope's Tiara, seem to be taking the heat.

But I would like to point out to everyone, that Syphen has posted twice, he confirmed and then voted for WhereIsTony (random).

Calling Syphen, is there anything else you would like to say? are you nervous? Are you unable to access the net very often?

Or are you lurking???

[J_Slr]

M4yhem - I do not plan on voting only the inactives, but at the moment I see no one worth voting for.

I would rather my vote was not out there unless its useful and keeping it on michel seemed silly. Right now I just would like to see some discussion. Or at least a little more input.

[J_Slr]

In theory it is easier to find scum against less people, however the problem with this is that unless you hit scum you are helping the scum.

While I agree no lynch should not be an option, I also think we need to consider carefully who we vote for.

Also welcome somedamnkid!

P.s. Still waiting on Syphen to say something.

[J_Slr]

But wasn't the other person's argument that by not lynching the mafia will kill a townie, thus making it harder for the townies to get enough votes to successfully carry out lynches against the mafia (seeing as how they would work together)?

Maybe it's just a difference of opinion that I'm caught in the middle of, but the two schools of thoughts on why we need to lynch seem rather contradictory to me.

A lynch is the only tool to stop the mafia. no lynch gives them a free day.

@Pope's Tiara: Tony is right, no lynch is a bad thing, but rushing a lynch is also a bad thing.

When you lynch someone there is always the possibility that you are lynching a townie, but as M4yhem said earlier, you might learn from lynching a townie.

Scum will jump at an opportunity to lynch a townie, so if we do get a townie you should look to see why the townie was lynched and who did the voting.

Look for those that jumped quickly or suddenly onto an accusation. These are possible scum tells, they will not always work, but they might help. (Oh and if the ICs think I am off my rocker, please say so.)

All in all, imo, its better to lynch than not and as long you are sure of why you are voting for someone and can explain to others why, then you are doing the right thing. To my mind anyway.
Just do not expect to be believed right away, what may seem obvious to you is not necessarily obvious to everyone else.

[J_Slr]

I'm around. Don't live on a computer. Besides, its summer. Motorcycles and sailing are the priorities.

With that being said, on a first day, I based my vote in a totally random manor. I find that there hasn't been any discussion or information going around yet to substantiate anything but a random lynch. If the lynch is wrong, then you know who it is not. They are dead. If the lynch is right, then woot!! 1 down. I find watching people's reactions post-lynch regardless of a right/wrong to be much more informative then day 1 finger pointing and pointless banter.

I don't agree with people's theory that a low-poster / "lurker" as you say is an instant HIT for mafia. Infact, if that is the common thought process.. would a good mafia trying to avoid detection try to post as much as possible?

Sounds like a case of "damned if you do, damned if don't."

I dunno what to say beyond that other then: vanilla townie!

Well its good to know you are around. (As it is Winter here, I am online quite often)

As for lurkers, I hope I did not say that lurkers were automatically mafia.

My problem with lurkers is that they give away very little information and this makes trusting them a tad bit difficult. Addmitedly its up to you how you play, but a townie who lurks and adds little to the game is more of a help to scum than the town.

Also as far posters go, you need to look at content of posts, anyone could post hundreds of times and say nothing. Or reiterate what others have said.

Also Syphen, you said that you voted randomly, why tony though, he had 2 votes already, or did you just fail to read the thread before that?

[J_Slr]

• J_Slr - Active, participating, contributing. Town for now. On a completely unrelated note: I really dislike that avatar.

On the same unrelated note: If anyone else has an issue with my Avatar, I will change it.

Michel makes a good point about Tony and Syphen.

Although I would not say Tony is lurking, more staying below the radar.

I still like Syphen as a lurker, but lurking is no guarantee of being scum.

So

Vote: WhereIsTony

WhereIsTony a little more content on your behalf would be nice.

[J_Slr]

I owuld like to Re-iterate my willingness to answer questions

@ pope

Why were you nervous

@ Yuu
Do you worry that IC's being helpful is making them seem more pro town to you than they may be.

@ J-slr

what sort of content?
My content may have dropped off because my suspicion of Pope has not been
abated much, I am not certain he is Scum but gun-to-my-head he is the one i would pick.


Finally

@ pope

you said Syphen after careful considerateion looking at the thread but did not elaborate. That re-enforced my belief you are Scum

This is a very nice reaction. As for content, to be honest I think we can all see you are firmly latched onto Pope's Tiara and I am going to look in that direction now, but I was wondering who else caught your attention?

Also, most of your content filled posts have been reactions and nothing more, it seems to me that unless we put pressure on you, you say very little.

[J_Slr]

Sorry, been unable to get online long enough to post till now.

My list will come shortly...

[J_Slr]

Scum list :

1. Syphen - 5 post total including confirmation. Is keeping a very low profile, only seems to react when specifically called out. Thinks lurking is a stupid tactic for Mafia. A bluff maybe?

2. somedamnkid - Replaced in and has been aggressively going at it since he arrived, has targeted JohnMW, Syphen and is now voting WhereIsTony. Has explained his tactics and yet I can not say what it is about him that bugs me, but I do not trust him.

FOS:somedamkid

3. The Pope's Tiara - A point of controversy here, seems to be scum in a few people's eyes. I personally do not get it, claimed cop? maybe. Although the change from 'Townsperson' to 'Goon' has me intrigued or have I missed that this whole time?

4. JonMW - Early on jumps from vote to vote and gets very anxious about his 3 votes, keeps bringing up "Cry Wolf", very defensive player.
Now: has started offering more information and stopped worrying about his own safety and now seems to be playing for the town and not himself.

5. M4yhem - Happy Scumday! As for actual play, he has been very helpful and pretty much taken on the role as Town Leader, which inclines me to believe he is Town, but then that might be just what he is counting on.

6. Yuu - Starts by claiming newbie status, is unsure of self. Though with a low post count has made her opinion known. I am almost sure she is town but that could of course be an act which is apparently working.

7. WhereIsTony - Initially voted randomly and said nothing of note. Under a little pressure, he started to talk, has now made his case on Pope's Tiara clear.

8. MichelSableheart - First note, I find his playing still a little cold and lifeless. Low poster, but very informative, I almost think he is co-mod more than actual player. Very good at avoiding attention. Does not seem like scum though.

Obviously I could be seeing things wrongly (I generally look at things backwards ) and am actually unsure of my self right now.

so:

unvote

[J_Slr]

I knew it would not be that easy, I was just wondering if I had missed that right from the beginning or not.

I still do not know if these lists will work though, my mind works best when things are unordered..... oh well.

btw why do people keep saying 'vanilla' townie?

*hunkers down and waits*

[J_Slr]

It's really an extension of Michel's lists, to be fair, so give him some credit.

As for Syphen, if we all think he's scum we have four options:
1. Lynch him right away. Probably not a good idea because there's a chance he might be a powerrole. It's best to have him claim and defend himself.
2. Wait eight days.
3. Give him a free pass for today and try to lynch his partner
4. Beg the mod for a replacement.

Of course, at the moment we haven't decided on who to lynch. We are waiting for Michel/Pope's Tiara/Syphen to make a list.

There's no reason to sit around twiddling our thumbs though, so here's some more questions to keep us going: (Feel free to interrogate me if you like too.)

Yuu- If we all suddenly started voting you, how would you defend yourself? What would you say to change our minds?

J_Slr- Same question as Yuu.

I agree that we need more input from others.

As for my defence, it woud depend on the argument presented.
If people voted for me because they thought I was scummy, but presented no reasons/arguments, I doubt there is much I could do to defend myself. Though I might try slugging it out with them for a bit
However if they thought my posts were scummy and said as much I will try to explain my reasoning/actions.

Ultimately though my reaction would depend on who and why someone went after me.

[J_Slr]

The second question is much tricker though, because I haven't been in that situation.

Putting myself into such a complex hypothetical situation

will take me a few minutes...
Ok, done. Well, speaking freely and purely tactically, I would not want to come to their aid directly, because that would only increase suspicion. I think that I would simply refuse to acknowledge that they had acted particularly untownieish, and declare that some other, town-aligned person seems more scummy in comparison.
Attacking your own teammate just seems to risky. If they start to accumulate votes, either you shoot your own team in the foot or you break the attack right when a lynch looks probable for that person - neither of those situations seems to be a good game-winning strategy, in my opinion.
I understand misdirection and doublethink as well as the next guy, but I don't think that it's such a good idea when it involves halving your own strength.
Perhaps the odds would be worth it in one situation that I can think of... if you came to the aid of your teammate, made your allegiance to them clear enough, and then nightkilled them.
Although it costs you an all-important NK, it might just buy you enough trust from the townsfolk to survive.

I would like to point out to you that the underlined section is decidedly dodgy to my mind. M4yhem asked a question, and your response was to strongly reinforce the fact that your answer is all just speculation, almost as if you have a guilty conscience.....

As for the rest, you lost me in your (hypothetical) tactics..... could you please clarify them? The first bit about distancing yourself makes sense, but could you explain the attacking you own team mates bit??? And the whole NK your friend bit?

Or am I just completely misunderstanding you here?

[J_Slr]

@The Pope's Tiara:
I repeat m4yhem's question:

Are you still here? Are you hiding because you're afraid the heat will fall back on you if you post? Do you like the list lynch plan?
Can we have a list from you?

As I have no other way to make you react I am adding more pressure.

Vote: The Pope's Tiara

Unless I am mistaken this should put The Pope's Tiara up to 3 votes. I know that you were online yesterday at 7:09 (Gmt) and M4yhem's post with this question was posted at 6:19 (Gmt). What are you up too?
From my view point you should not fear being lynched right now unless you make blatantly obvious you are scum because anyone placing those last 2 votes had better have a good reason!

[J_Slr]

For our ICs, MichelSableheart and M4yhem:

M4yhem, you asked John what he would do if he was scum and his partner was taking heat.

I would like to know what each of you would do?

[J_Slr]

Sorry Jon it was just the way you explained your tactics that had me confused.

Oh, come on... it wouldn't do to look like I can just jump into the mindset of a mafia member, now would it? Be serious.

I need to point out to you that if you had not have said that, I would have thought nothing of it, after all you were just answering the question. Its a kind of backwards logic, but as I see it professing that it is entirely hypothetical and complex rings more alarm bells than just answering the question.

anyway it was this line that had me confused:

Perhaps the odds would be worth it in one situation that I can think of... if you came to the aid of your teammate, made your allegiance to them clear enough, and then nightkilled them.

[J_Slr]

Greetings tumescence
Role claim or not, I will judge you on your posts and style of play (contribution/post count).
Although seeing as you have replaced The Pope's Tiara, I will

Remove Vote

as my vote was merely to get a reaction.

Do us all a favour though and give us a list of suspicion and why.
Btw off topic, any previous mafia type experience?

[J_Slr]

Well I hope the idiot got what was coming!

[J_Slr]

SOME QUESTIONS:
J_Sir, M4yhem etc.,
Could you elaborate on why you get a townie reading on Yuu?

From my list:

6. Yuu - Starts by claiming newbie status, is unsure of self. Though with a low post count has made her opinion known. I am almost sure she is town but that could of course be an act which is apparently working.

Those are my reasons and I am willing to admit that yes, it is possible I am being taken for a ride, and if so, Yuu well done. The thing is that even though I get town vibes, I am not about to stop watching her.

To my mind she sitting in the perfect position for a roled player either scum or town.

No one seems to suspect her of anything, but her appearance has been some what lacking of late and yes, getting a better reading her would be nice. So I hereby

Vote: Yuu

In the hope that maybe you will talk a little more.

Please do not get me wrong, at this point I would like to say that Syphen and Somedamnkid are the ones I see as scum. (and dont worry tumescence, I am not about to overlook you just because you replaced The Pope's Tiara)

Oh and @tumescence: its J_S'L'r people seem to think its an I for some reason...

[J_Slr]

I have to go with tumescence, attacking someone again and again because they mentioned the possibility they might be roled is a little silly, but continually making it sound like they actually claimed the role is going too far!

That being said I do not want people to stop looking at tumescence, keep watching him, but also look at Jon, he really really wants tumescenced lynched and I for one can not really see why?

@Tony: you raise a good point about Michel, maybe we should put some pressure on him to be a little more active?

[J_Slr]

M4yhem: I am fine for Syphen lynch after those two post lists.

*feels dirty*

And yes I am agreeing with you (again)

[J_Slr]

Correct if I am wrong, but is tumescence now at lynch -1 ?

[J_Slr]

Tume, He is far too defensive and is taking things more personally than what the situation calls for.

followed in no particular order by Jon because he keeps repeating himself, J_Slr because his theories are a bit strange, and M4yhem for being too pushy/antsy.

Of course my theories are strange, I like thinking outside the box.

Also I would like to point out that this probably your least aggressive post this game so far.

And yes before people start pointing fingers this is a filler/contentless post.
Will contribute shortly.

[J_Slr]

Scum list :

1. Syphen 1

2. somedamnkid 4

3. The Pope's Tiara 5

4. JonMW 3

5. M4yhem 7

6. Yuu 6

7. WhereIsTony 2

8. MichelSableheart

*1. Syphen - still top of the list

2. WhereIsTony - look at somedamnkid's case/reasoning (post subject 219)

3. JonMW - sorry Jon but as both Tum and SDK have proved themselves you were next in line.

4. somedamnkid - you are still aggressive but I realise now, that this is probably something that we need in this game.

5. Tumescence - unlike pope, tum has arrived and had to defend himself the whole way, for someone else and on top of that, going over pope's posts I see someone freaking out which is not necessarily proof of scum, just a lack of nerves.

6. Yuu

7. M4yhem - seriously if you are scum, the town has lost, no 2 ways about, because I can find no reason to suspect you of anything

**8. MichelSableheart

* Syphen is still at the top as he not pitched or done anything, that being said I still want to wait for him or his replacement to pitch up

** I have nothing on Michel, but that could be more due to his lack of activity than anything.

[J_Slr]

EDBWOP - ugh! The numbers next to the names in the quote are where I have re-ranked people too.

[J_Slr]

Oh whoops!

Sorry Yuu, meant to have done this earlier. You have since responded and made yourself heard so my vote is now just a waste so

unvote

[J_Slr]

Ha! I knew my death was not random!!!

Well played all!

As for :

Actually, we killed J_Slr because we thought he might've been the doctor. He was more neutral, quiet and all, not attracting much atention.

I hate to break it to you, but that is my play style, I always seem to sit in the middle, regardless of role.