Newbie 655: Zeroville. (Game Over!)

[Syphen]

Some of the reasons you just pointed out Tony, are the same reasons I changed vote to Pope. rather very suspicious.

I will admit that on the first page you seemed a little scummy but redeemed yourself in my eyes, and all of that doubt then got shifted to pope.

But who knows, what if you and pope are both mafia and pulling wool over everyone's eyes in a planned attempt to mess everyone up. Devil advocate.

[M4yhem]

As I iterated before, I changed my vote under pressure because I thought that that was how we were supposed to play, even as Vanilla Townies. Or are you trying to ignore what I said?

I’m not ignoring anything. I just don’t necessarily accept your explanations as fact.

Voting No Lynch... He did it entirely for dramatic reasons, as he said before. Don't you remember how he put on the resigned martyr act? I voted No Lynch purely as a placeholder until I could identify a new suspicious player and vote for them.

What’s wrong with simply unvoting, as a placeholder?

I should probably point out that I don’t personally, have a problem with emotional scumhunting. I think logic is only one aspect of the game. The emotions people display can tell you as much about their alignment as the arguments they use.

M4yhem votes for Tiara, claiming that this is motivated by the "random voting" stage in the game. Take note that Michel - who may have more or less experience than M4yhem (wiki turned up nothing on him) - disagrees with him on this point. Perhaps M4yhem was lying to us? Perhaps Michel was. MAybe one of them is simply wrong, or maybe one of them is taking advantage on us being newbies - we do not know how the game is played.

Now that’s a serious accusation. Remember please, I am not just here to play mafia, I am here to help you learn to play mafia the mafiascum way. This being the case, it would be a breach of trust for me to mislead you about how the game is played. I will guarantee you at this point, that any question about how the game is played will be answer 100% honestly.

No, that doesn’t mean I will always be right. Being human, I’m bound to goof at some point. It also doesn’t mean me and Michel will always agree; we may play on the same site but we play in different games and so our experiences will be different.

But we will be giving you the truth as we see it.

p.s. If you want to get a feel for how I play, click on my name and then click on ‘post history’.

You seem to be implying, Jon, that I voted for Pope in order to force him to defend himself. My counter-argument would be that I asked him so many question and gave him a chance to defend himself because I wanted to make sure he was scum and not just a misguided newbie. I’d say I’ve asked you as many questions and encouraged you to defend yourself as much as I did for Mr. Tiara- do you disagree?

Tony- HoS means ‘Hand of suspicion’. It’s a way of emphasising you find someone suspicious without voting for them. Fos (finger of suspicion) is also used for this purpose.
(You could use pretty much anything really- ‘trout of suspicion’, ‘pole of suspicion’, ‘stamp of suspicion’; the basic meaning is the same.)

As a side note I believe that protecting someone this early in the game is a surefire scumsign. Everyone's posts say that they aren't sure who they can trust and everybody is under some suspicion. As we have no masons the only people who know who is town and otherwise are the mafia members so protecting anybody implies mafia knowledge.

I don’t completely agree. I’d say it’s true that defending scum is a good pointer that you might also be scum but it isn’t surefire. I will sometime defend people who I think are town if the case against them is bogus; I’d say trying to stop a mislynch is a protown pointer quite often. (And sometimes scum will defend a doomed townie to make themselves look better).

I’m thinking I’d like to see lists from people who haven’t posted them yet.

Syphen- any possibilty of a list from you? Who's town, who's scum, that sorta thing?

[The Pope's Tiara]

Salmon of Doubt: JonMW

Yeah, there seems to be a lot of people who want to lynch me/think I'm scum.

I'm not going to write a giant apologetic on how there's no way I could be scum, how I've been using flawless logic and flawless gut feelings to my best effort to save the town. I think that it really doesn't change people's minds and is a bit scummy.

If you guys have any specific questions I will answer them honestly and frankly, no bullshit or filler.

JonMW's post seems a bit scummy in that he is really trying hard to defend himself, overly so. Sure, we don't want to die, but he seems much more emotionally invested. I'm not saying that makes him scum, but I'm doubting he's being completely honest. (Hence, Salmon of Doubt.)

[M4yhem]

Unvote, Vote:Syphen

I could write a detailed explination, but it would just be an echo of what has already been said.

Pope's- Even if you are echoing what is said, I'd still like to hear your reasons in your own words.

Bumped for your convenience.

1: I thought if I just agreed with you guys that my actions appeared to be from newbieness and nerves that there would be less pressure on me and the focus would move else where. And it did.

Are you saying you lied about being nervous to get the pressure off you?
(I missed this the first time round.)

[JonMW]

What’s wrong with simply unvoting, as a placeholder?

I simply did not occur to me that such a move was available. Again, bad habit from Cry Wolf. It wasn't until soon afterwards (page 3) that J_Slr indicated that this was a possible action.

[Erg0]

Vote Count

WhereIsTony 3 (MichelSableheart, J_Slr, somedamnkid)
Syphen 2 (JonMW, The Pope's Tiara)
The Pope's Tiara 2 (WhereIsTony, Syphen)
JonMW 2 (M4yhem, Yuu)

Not Voting 0

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

[JonMW]

It's been 48 hours since something actually happened. Looks like we're stuck at a deadlock.

Any game is better than no game, so I'll kick this along a bit, repercussions be damned. Can it simply be understood that this action is not motivated by trying to find scum, just to further the game itself?

Sure, maybe Il'l try to justify this vote later - right now, I'm too busy to actually come to my own solid opinion of Tony. Even assuming that two of his current votes are from mafia, that still leaves one townie who seriously thinks that he should be lynched, and one more that needs to change his/her vote.
So, I guess I'm trusting in the lynch mob.

Unvote
Vote: WhereisTony

[JonMW]

After reviewing my own actions, I think that I was too hasty.

Unvote

[JonMW]

I've re-read the thread for what feels like the umpteenth time, and I'm completely stymied. How on earth does anyone keep the players clear in their heads in the big games?
The only way that I can make any progress is by focussing on one person at a time and seeing who voiced a like or dislike for that person over the course of the game.

Who sets off my scum-o-meter?
Let's see...
- WhereIsTony
- The Pope's Tiara
- Syphen
- somedamnkid

This consists of the three other people who have been voted for (clearly) and sdk (who seems to switch tack less logically than even I do). My deepest suspicion is on the top two, but it's hard to discern any allegiance between them at all. Throughout the entire game they've been hard at work to denounce the other.
Of course, it could very easily be put on, but this is one heck of an act.

[M4yhem]

Alright, let's see what happens if I switch to

Unvote,Vote:Syphen

Reasons:
Possible lurker
Quick townie claim when pressured.

I'd also like to suggest the following tactic: We all make lists, from scummiest to least scummy, of all the people in the game. Then, when everyone has made a list, we pick whoever most often is in the top two and lynch them.

My list looks like this:
Most scummy
Syphen
JonMW
Pope's Tiara
WhereisTony
J_Slr
Michel
Yuu
Least scummy

Okay?

[WhereIsTony]

Ok my list would be.

Pope's Tiara
Syphen
JonMW
m4yhem
Michel
J_Slr
Somedamnkid
Yuu

[JonMW]

Ah, I'd better put those names in

order

then...

The Pope's Tiara
Syphen
WhereIsTony
somedamnkid
M4yhem
MichelSableHeart
J_Slr
Yuu

[J_Slr]

Sorry, been unable to get online long enough to post till now.

My list will come shortly...

[J_Slr]

Scum list :

1. Syphen - 5 post total including confirmation. Is keeping a very low profile, only seems to react when specifically called out. Thinks lurking is a stupid tactic for Mafia. A bluff maybe?

2. somedamnkid - Replaced in and has been aggressively going at it since he arrived, has targeted JohnMW, Syphen and is now voting WhereIsTony. Has explained his tactics and yet I can not say what it is about him that bugs me, but I do not trust him.

FOS:somedamkid

3. The Pope's Tiara - A point of controversy here, seems to be scum in a few people's eyes. I personally do not get it, claimed cop? maybe. Although the change from 'Townsperson' to 'Goon' has me intrigued or have I missed that this whole time?

4. JonMW - Early on jumps from vote to vote and gets very anxious about his 3 votes, keeps bringing up "Cry Wolf", very defensive player.
Now: has started offering more information and stopped worrying about his own safety and now seems to be playing for the town and not himself.

5. M4yhem - Happy Scumday! As for actual play, he has been very helpful and pretty much taken on the role as Town Leader, which inclines me to believe he is Town, but then that might be just what he is counting on.

6. Yuu - Starts by claiming newbie status, is unsure of self. Though with a low post count has made her opinion known. I am almost sure she is town but that could of course be an act which is apparently working.

7. WhereIsTony - Initially voted randomly and said nothing of note. Under a little pressure, he started to talk, has now made his case on Pope's Tiara clear.

8. MichelSableheart - First note, I find his playing still a little cold and lifeless. Low poster, but very informative, I almost think he is co-mod more than actual player. Very good at avoiding attention. Does not seem like scum though.

Obviously I could be seeing things wrongly (I generally look at things backwards ) and am actually unsure of my self right now.

so:

unvote

[M4yhem]

Although the change from 'Townsperson' to 'Goon' has me intrigued or have I missed that this whole time?

If only it was that easy. It's his postcount- as you post more, your title changes. So if you post enough, you too can be Mafia scum, like me!

Happy scumday!

Thank you!

I'll have more analysis and less fluff when all the lists are posted, I promise.

[J_Slr]

I knew it would not be that easy, I was just wondering if I had missed that right from the beginning or not.

I still do not know if these lists will work though, my mind works best when things are unordered..... oh well.

btw why do people keep saying 'vanilla' townie?

*hunkers down and waits*

[M4yhem]

btw why do people keep saying 'vanilla' townie?

because townie can mean two things
1. A person whose only power is their vote/salmon of doubt

2. Any role that wins with the town

So if you say 'vanilla' townie you make it clear what kind of townie you mean.

For a person who works best unordered, you make very good lists.

[Yuu]

I find the idea of the list most interesting! M4yhem, you sure come up with some great ideas (also, congratulations, happy scumday!).

From most scummy to less:

1 - JonMW
2 - WhereIsTony
3 - Syphen
4 - The Pope's Tiara
5 - J_Sir
6 - M4yhem
7 - MichelSableHeart
8 - SomeDamnKid

I have only an eye set on the first four, but who knows. I think geral opinion on them was made know, but the reason behind the order I picked was that

1 - I still can't get over my suspicions on JonMW. He claims Pope's excuses were flimsy, and that it took them to less M4yhem's suspicion, but his excuses could be just as flimsy. For some reason I don't like the summary he did of his posts, for me, it looked like no new information was added and he was just trying to appear less scummy by posting something huge and apparently helpful.

2&3 - Tony and Syphen. Yeah, I see reason when believing lurkers to be mafia, but Tony posts more than Syphen and manages to say less. That sounds more suspicious to me, so I'm puting him first on the list.

4 - Pope. He sounded really scummy at first, but now, my suspects on him are almost gone (though some people managed to post pretty good reasons on why he's still looking bad in their opinions)


On the rest, well, I had to order them from less scummy to more. SomeDamnKid makes good points and is one to give me town vibes. Then come the mods, which seem to play on town's side, and who are definitely avoiding a hushed lynch, and then J_Sir. I don't get town or mafia vibes from him, so he looks more neutral on my eyes.

[WhereIsTony]

I am perplexed by the statements that my posts lack content.

I have posted why i have voted how i have in post by post detail, outlining all of my suspicion

I have posted not one but TWO list on my thoughts.

what kind of content are you looking for

[WhereIsTony]

Ok my list would be.

Pope's Tiara
Syphen
JonMW
m4yhem
Michel
J_Slr
Somedamnkid
Yuu

I have a bit more time now my three top suspects

Pope - my reasons have been repeated uummm repeatedly - I will honestly be suprised if he is NOT scum.

Syphen - the need to voice a vanilla townie roleclaim strikes me as odd still

Jon - always seems to vote to the path of least resistance, cold be a desperation to stay alive - not necessarily a scum sign but definitely shifty.

[somedamnkid]

Whereistony - Reasons stated in the vote post on page 5. In addition he has not once changed his vote despite other people becoming more suspicious as the game went on, perhaps trying not to look like mafia by constantly switching his vote?

The Pope's Tiara - I don't like the way he reacts both under and out of pressure. Goes from blowing things way out of proportion to not posting hardly at all.

JonMW - I don't like the way he acts under pressure, quick to anger, seems to consistently be on the defensive.

Syphen - It seems suspicious in that he is relatively absent from the game, and very little original contribution. Seems to be echoing others statements instead of making his own.

Yuu - Hasn't posted enough for me to get a read on her, nor has she been publicly put under any kind of scrutiny.

M4yhem - seems to be townie for now but i don't forget suspicions.

J_Slr - Unremarkable posts, the list was nice though. Good analysis of people and mostly in line with my own thoughts. Yes i am an aggressive player, it's what I do.

MichelSableheart - Doesn't post much, but what he does is very informative and I agree with him on most accounts.


As for being high on two people's scum lists all I can say is: Yes i switch votes often, A vote is the only weapon I've got against scum so I intend to use it to its fullest potential. It's not just a vote to get someone lynched it's a way to put pressure on/get information from people.

[Yuu]

Not your last posts, Tony, that's why I'm not voting for you. But look at your first ones, you wrote lot of one line only posts - that struck me as odd. Now you seem like you're finally giving away more information, writing more, but it could be just because people pointed out your behavior and started to vote for you.

[WhereIsTony]

@somedamnkid

who has been more suspicious than pope that i should change my vote? on what grounds do you find them so?


Should I change my vote for the sake of changing it?


on your own list he is ranked #2... and i know your #1 is incorrect.


your logic is flawed.

[somedamnkid]

You shouldn't change your vote for the sake of changing it, but i find it odd that you have not bothered to investigate anyone else.

[WhereIsTony]

I have posted my opinion on everyone.

I have said that my next two suspects are jon and syphen and stated the reasons why.

What I will not do is change my vote from the person i am surest about, just to appear more active.