Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Albert B. Rampage]

@ABR

As I said, I just played TM with Ank and we had a discord server with thousands of messages. I understand how she plays quite well I think now, and already read her fairly well. During the Large Theme she was town, town was in a similarly bad situation (I think actually on d3 too), and she was very apathetic and low content and wanted to replace. Tom and I had to talk her into staying. This game mirrors her apathy of that one fairly well imo - viewtopic.php?f=150&t=81773 the content level is higher, but most of it is directly prompted by myself, as well as a bit of Tom and Dann. viewtopic.php?f=56&t=79045&user_select% ... &start=200 is the only scum game from Alyssa I'm familiar with firsthand, but her play there feels very different from here, with it being much more fluid and, well, good. This game is

also

different from her when I've normally seen her as town, but it fits with my image of how her brain scans games, and the apathetic replace out even from a null pov is more likely to come from town when town is losing. I've looked over her iso a few times, and there were a few specific posts that somewhat pinged town. One interesting thing I would note, is that as far as I can tell she lists momo as town in her big reads list (#512) (at a time momo was pretty widely town read I think, which in itself is fine), and did not really acknowledge his existence outside of responding to quotes from other people until she voted him in #1398. According to vcs this is around or slightly after when wagons swinged to momo, but I don't know gamestate at the time so maybe thats wrong. Ank seems like the kind of player to overly theater rather than not acknowledge partners, but I wish I could have questioned her on what changed (again - unless gamestate stuff I'm missing), or if the vc is deceptive and scum!ank just wanted to get in on the wagon before it inevitably went through.

As an aside,

I can tell you with absolute confidence that the way Momo acted towards ABR in that PT, is NOT the way scum acts towards a partner.

what...

I do not have her as my top tier of town, and would not object to her lynch like I would, say, Morning Tweet. On my first read after subbing in I thought she was pretty likely town, faded a bit as I got a lot of town reads, and tbh developed a stronger read on her while writing that post. But yea, I think being on a team with someone is even better than hydraing with them, because you actually get to see how they solve a game "on their own" rather than "with" you. After TM18 I didn't get Giga/Katy, JJ, nor Transcend (rip) wrong again

ever

as far as I remember. So to use less words (I get rambly at 5 AM after drinking lightly) I think Ank is town. She is not super town, but she is more likely town.

bah.

I have no confidence in a dave lynch.

Are you asking me to vote dave?

[Morning Tweet]

My apologies for trying to talk you out of your theory BM. as well as the ABR scumread. i will not do it again if you feel it's a purely anti-town move to oppose you

@ABR Do you have reasoning for voting firebringer other than 'he's acting to scummy to be scum', which Vecna brought up? earlier?

I didn't have a lot of reasoning voting dave other than PoE making him look bad, but there's like way more resistance to lynching dave than i was expecting

[Albert B. Rampage]

@ABR Do you have reasoning for voting firebringer other than 'he's acting to scummy to be scum', which Vecna brought up? earlier?

I still think the jump on hectic was scummy from day 1. idanny's claim is also unbelievable so bingle is my no. 2.

[GuiltyLion]

I do think Dave is a good lynch here.

with respect to the danyboy claim, why is it unbelievable? I don't think it's unlikely to come from scum but I also don't think it's particularly unlikely from town? And I think Bingle makes a good point that if his role is true, then there's definitely scum in his hood and Dave is the most likely of the uncleared slots.

[Albert B. Rampage]

VOTE: Dave

I'll hold my nose and vote dave to get this over with.

[SirCakez]

Votecount 3.5

davesaz (5) - Bingle, GuiltyLion, Eddie Cane, Morning Tweet, Albert B. Rampage
Albert B. Rampage (2) - pisskop, VaultDweller
GuiltyLion (2) - Ircher, Battle Mage
Bingle (1) - Firebringer
Firebringer (1) - Vecna
Morning Tweet (1) - BBmolla

Not voting (2) - davesaz, Drixx

(expired on 2020-05-16 19:49:00) remain until day end

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 to reach a majority.

"Face your fears."

[Bingle]

if there is a cop who can only investigate in their own hood, which has only 7 other people to start, does anyone really think there are more than 2 scum there? It's probably more like 1, otherwise it's a pretty powerful role in a game which is already chock-full of town PRs.

Just a hot take, as I do need a re-read to get to grips with who has claimed what...

There are 4 living people who have not had innocent results on them in said hood. One of them is me. I am townreading 2 of them. 3/4 of them are highly proficient mafia players. I'm literally counting on there being 1-2 scum in that neighborhood.



Go ahead and tell me again why this isn't a good place to spend our energy?

[davesaz]

No mechanics

Yet...

When I do have something (like Jigsaw's identity, that would be cool) I'll be all over it.

I think y'all need to pull your heads out of your asses. That way you'll be able to hear the quiet voice telling you to go somewhere else for a while.
I was trying to avoid the kind of attention that would put me into a trap, but nah that ain't going to last.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I really can't vote dave in good conscious. I won't vote dave today.

VOTE: Bingle

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'll vote BBmolla, FB, Drixx, or Bingle. Figure it out, you have 4 days.

[GuiltyLion]

are we softing ANOTHER investigative

I guess it fits with the police hood

Dave if you're going to soft like that then you at least need to make it clear who is NOT jigsaw. That's not indicated anywhere in your ISO.

[davesaz]

When the point of my approach is to avoid revealing role information at all, it's kinda hard to do that.
If I had information that someone like

Drixx

for example isn't Jigsaw, it doesn't help with knowing if they're scum or not.
I was

Determined

to not give any clues that I had an important ability until the info was actually useful.
I can perhaps give enough information that someone may be able to confirm the capability, without revealing what else I might know.

[Ircher]

ABR, davesaz, Battle Mage, and GuiltyLion perhaps is the scum team.

[Morning Tweet]

If ABR and BM are scum together i'd lose my shit

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Bingle

[Morning Tweet]

I'm legitimately down to Bingle/BBmolla at this point

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR, davesaz, Battle Mage, and GuiltyLion perhaps is the scum team.

So Pine was essentially in the scum pt with momo BM and me?

[Bingle]

I am unmoved by the soft, FWIW.

[GuiltyLion]

Idk what to do I kinda buy the soft but I feel like I'll buy any semi plausible cop claim

UNVOTE:

what are the odds that Ircher is actually just Jigsaw? His reads demonstrate no thought whatsoever and I'm giving him a tonnnn of credit for Gamma being Inno'd and Gamma also backing up iDanyboy's claim when he did

[GuiltyLion]

Jigsaw giving out keys to his own traps? :thinking_face:

[Morning Tweet]

im frustrated that ircher doesn't seem to be trying but am holding back because i feel like Bingle/idany's clear *should* make him town.

Do you think ircher's apathy is AI for him? I'm willing to entertain ircher being jigsaw yes, but i wouldn't lynch him over the other choices

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think idanny was scum so he may have just claimed an innocent on his buddy gamma lol. I'm down to vote Ircher out.

[GuiltyLion]

Do you think ircher's apathy is AI for him? I'm willing to entertain ircher being jigsaw yes, but i wouldn't lynch him over the other choices

I don't know Ircher well enough to read anything AI into the apathy, I just know that his votes/reads don't make sense together and so either he hasn't tried to understand the game prior to replacing in or he's scum just coasting off a clear and voting wherever he wants

I agree he's a bad lynch at the moment but I would want to go back there if he survives after we hit an acolyte today

[GuiltyLion]

ABR, davesaz, Battle Mage, and GuiltyLion perhaps is the scum team.

like this just fragrantly makes no sense, in means scum would all be trying to bus each other (BM pushing ABR, me pushing davesaz, BM wagoning me), would mean most of the major wagons today were on scum, and as ABR pointed out it would mean Pine's hood was 3 scum and Pine

[GuiltyLion]

I want EC/Vecna thoughts on dave's claim and what to do in light of it. I might wanna go for the no hood scum and lynch Molla