Mini #553: Over!

[Matt_S]

Please answer this question: Assuming I'm telling the truth, do I have any kinks in my logic?

There's the possibility that shaka pm'd talitha when she died and told her that she was naive or that talitha asked after dieing, but that's not very plausible, and a mod probably wouldn't do that anyways. And there's the possibility that Talitha made you naive just for the heck of it, but that's similar to Guardian's assumption yesterday that massive was de-watchered.

Also: turning this lynch to Destructor is obviously harder that lynching Seth. So if I was scum, why would I possibly go for the harder way to win the game!?

To make me mad >.>

Even if you do turn out to be naive, this does seem like the logical course of action.

Vote Destructor

.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I don't get to take credit for this win, do I? I mean did it take any

skill

to choose to not investigate you, Matt_S.
Aw... I wanted to credit for this win.

Also, I forgot to mention earlier, I nearly exploded on N2 because I was so caught between investigated Khelvaster or Guardian. One of the reasons I was willing to keep Guardian alive that day is because I was very certain that Guardian was going to be vigged. (which is why I was so shocked the next day).
However, I started to doubt myself over the night. I was really worried that Guardian was not going to be NKed, and that I should have investigated him. I went back and forth and back and forth...

Ultimately I investigated Khelvaster. After this game is over I'm going to ask Talitha who Khelvaster/whoeever his replacement was who he targetted for NK. For my sanity I'm really hoping he chose to NK Guardian.

(a funny note, on investigation to Talitha, I actually wrote I wanted investigate Khelvaster. Talitha responded that his replacement was NKed).

[Sethaniel]

I still don't get why you're positive that matt is town.

[Matt_S]

I still don't get why you're positive that matt is town.

Because destructor was at L-1 yesterday and I didn't hammer him.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Similar to right now we know that

you

are town because you're reluctant to hammer Matt_S. If you were scum the game would have definitely been over on post 977.

If you're still not sure, look at post 929 that I made. (I reposted the current vote count in that one).
If Matt_S was on a scum team with Guardian and Coolbot, then Matt_S, who was voting for Guardian at the time,

could have one the game

by switching his vote. If he lynched Destructor that day, then the game would have been over, and the scum would have won.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

If you're confused, imagine this scenarios and why they're impossible.

Scenario: Scum team is Matt_S, Guardian, and Coolbot. Post 929 which I mentioned earlier, copied post 911 that the mod made. This is what it (post 911) said:

Current Vote Count

destructor (3)

- Guardian, BridgesandBaloons, Sethaniel

Guardian (3)

- Matt_S, ting =), destructor

FOUR votes will lynch.

If this scenario was true, then Matt_S could have switched his vote to Destructor, and then Matt_S, Guardian, and Coolbot would have won the game. But Matt_S didn't do that, so he's obviously not scum.

I feel like I'm repeating myself.

[destructor]

Unvote

Seth didn't hammer. Matt didn't hammer yesterday.

Lemme read over Bab's claim again, but there's really no other place for my vote right now.

Vote: BridgesAndBalloons

[Sethaniel]

We could be getting WIFOM here, but a thought:

if bab is the scum, why would he choose me(Seth) to "confirm" innocent? It would have been quite easy to get Matt and des to vote for me.

similarly, why did guardianscum choose destructor to call out as empking's killer? was it really all a plot to get us to think des must be town?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

was it really all a plot to get us to think des must be town?

Yeah, of course.Yesterday's play was brilliant. Guardian and Destructor attacked eachother, knowing that Guardian was probably going to be lynched. They set Destructor up with a reason that he survives to the next LYLO, and we as a town, with no cop left, lynch either me, Seth, or Matt_S. But they didn't count on the fact that I backed-up Talitha and became a cop.

Destructor has to vote for me. He has no other option. Matt_S and you are both confirmed. So that leaves me and Destructor.

if bab is the scum, why would he choose me(Seth) to "confirm" innocent? It would have been quite easy to get Matt and des to vote for me.

BINGO!!!

It makes no sense. And why as scum would I risk claiming a power role this late in the game? If I were scum, (AND THIS ISN'T WIFOM BECAUSE THERE ARE NO MORE LYNCHES LEFT IN THE GAME*) I would have lynched you. It was incredibly easy to. Look, Destructor's first post of the day was a vote for you. The post right after that is Matt_S pratically saying he's going to vote for you

The point that pretty much

seals Sethaniel's fate away

is his hammering post. He pretty much admits that he didn't look at the evidence. Add to this the timing of his vote, with BAB probably about to hammer, and it seems like an attempt for brownie points. If that's still not enough, ting accused Sethaniel of bussing. Ting died. I'm not one for WIFOM, but maybe one of you is.

Look at the bolded part. Matt_S was almost certainly going to vote for you also. Yet, I never voted for you.

Look at my first post of the day, also

I really thought Seth was scum after Guardian turned out to be scum, but now I’m not so sure that I was

c

orrect.

O

ne

p

art

How this really reads is I really thought you were scum but then

c o p

. My first post I was saying " I thought you were scum but then as cop I got a contrary result."



Sethaniel, please

think

about this question. If Matt_S said he was going to vote you, and Destructor already voted you, and all I had to do is wait for you to claim and after you claim Matt_S would have voted and I could have hammered... WHY THE HELL AS SCUM WOULD I SUDDENLY DECIDE TO SAY DESTRUCTOR WAS SCUM!?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

If I am scum, then yesterday was a big bus-fest, obviously. Unless Bab wants to elaborate on this further,

I don't know if it's worth dwelling on.

The way I see it, for him to have bussed his buddy yesterday would be counterintuitive since a mislynch would have won scum the game.

I'm still pretty much convinced that Seth is the last scum. Matt's vanilla and

I don't think Bab would have made the case he did against Imat in Day 2 if he was scum with him.

Add to that how silent Guardian was on all things Sethaniel yesterday.

So...

Vote: Sethaniel

The first bolded is a quote that shows an example of Destructor trying to avoid talking about him being scum.

The second bolded is going to show him backtracking.
Look at this backtracking!:

Unvote

Seth didn't hammer. Matt didn't hammer yesterday.

Lemme read over Bab's claim again, but there's really no other place for my vote right now.

Vote: BridgesAndBalloons

He doesn't even bother to rebuttal his own defense of me. HE just kind of ignores what he said earlier and switches his vote.

Granted, this isn't a great example of back-tracking, but what he's doing makes sense for scum. Sethaniel, you were going to be lynched today. Hands down, super easy, scum win. Yesterday I mentioned how you had to be scum if Destructor was town. I also mentioned I was assuming that either Guardian or Destructor was town. Destructor knew that Seth had been supicious so he put his vote on you. Now he's screwed. He has to make a case on me. Which he's reluctant because he knows I've not acted too scummy. And my actions today would make

zero

sense as scum. ZERO!
Please give me one scum-benefiting reason for me to fake-claim cop all to switch my vote to you.

[Talitha]

Vote Count

Destructor(2)

- BridgesandBaloons, Matt_S

BridgesandBaloons(1)

- Destructor

Not Voting: Sethaniel

3 votes to lynch.

[Sethaniel]

Oh what the heck

vote: destructor

I'm fairly certain if bab or matt were scum, they could've gotten me lynched today, and neither of them tried it, so what the heck.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Yay, Guardian and Coolbot, We won!

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I can't believe you guys made the final lynch without letting Destructor adequately defend himself. Couldn't you guys tell that yesterday I was being really flip floppy. It's cuz I didn't want Guardian dead. I decided to get destructor lynched because that would be more of a challenge. And you guys believed my role-claim? Does an all power-role backup even exist?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Actually I'm town, And we won. I just made those two previous comments to freak Matt_S and Sethaniel out. Hopefully you read the posts in the correct order.

Some questions: Destructor: both Ting and Matt_S were confirmed yesterday. What made you choose to NK Ting over Matt_S?
Guardian/Destructor: Why did you choose to bus eachother yesterday? Were you guys thinking that Guardian would be lynched, and that we'd think Destructor was town the next day?

Some comments: I was going to lynch Guardian yesterday. Sethaniel beat me to it. Also, I was very sure that Khelvaster/Empking was not a pro-town power role. That was not a gambit. I don't know why he would think that a mass-claim would be pro-town if he was a power role and had a name. It makes no sense.

Questions:
How could I have improved my game?
What was the best thing I did?
What was the worst thing I did?

[Matt_S]

Don't ever do that again. I almost cried

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Don't ever do that again. I almost cried

haha.

This is going to be SO embarrassing if Sethaniel was scum and was just pretending to be making up his mind...

But I'm like 80% sure I'm correct

[destructor]

haha.

Well done guys. I'll post more in a sec.

[destructor]

Destructor: both Ting and Matt_S were confirmed yesterday. What made you choose to NK Ting over Matt_S?

Probably a combination of factors, but mostly that of the two, if it came to it, it would have been harder to call ting Guardian's buddy at some point. Either way, I just needed people who would be willing to lynch Seth around.

Guardian/Destructor: Why did you choose to bus eachother yesterday? Were you guys thinking that Guardian would be lynched, and that we'd think Destructor was town the next day?

Yeah, pretty much. We figured we'd be lucky if we could win it in Day 3, so Guardian suggested he'd claim an incriminating result on me and we'd see what happened from there.

How could I have improved my game?
What was the best thing I did?
What was the worst thing I did?

I dunno. You were right more than you were wrong, I think.

Maybe your case against Imat could have been a little more succinct. Sometimes going over everything post by post isn't really required and it's more worthwhile bringing up a few telling posts. That can end up being more conductive to discussion, since it's easier for people to read and comment on it, and so be more convincing. I personally tend to have an aversion to verbosity where it's not needed, but that's just me.

Also, I

have

to say, Guardian really gave the scumteam a fighting chance. I don't know what would have happened if he hadn't replaced in and I was really impressed by how he played. After the Shamrock replacement fiasco, I really thought things were irrecoverable.

But yeah, I think you guys played pretty well and things remained mostly pleasant and jovial, which was nice for me. It's actually true that I wasn't enthusiastic about this game earlier on, due to the various mod-errors and when Talitha took over I was even considering asking to be replaced. But I'm glad I didn't, because it turned into a fun game for me. A bit of a rollercoaster.

[destructor]

Holy crap. I completely forgot - Thanks to Talitha for taking over and convincing me to keep playing!

[Sethaniel]

Good job, bab.

(Hey, at least I was right yesterday, and des was scummy.)

[ting =)]

haha, wooo~!

I think the bussing was very good play. I think the claims that you both made were really good too.

Des: Is there any particular reason why you were for a nameclaim early on when khel suggested it? That had me pretty convinced you were town. =/ Oh, and did you guys have names?

Bab:

Man.

That was freaky. I was keeping track of the game and I was sold on your claim.

I don't know why he would think that a mass-claim would be pro-town if he was a power role and had a name. It makes no sense.

I think he was maybe fishing for vig targets.

[destructor]

When Khel suggested it, I immediately assumed that every pro-town player had been given a name, and so by not supporting it, I'd be caught as scum. I decided at that moment that I would have to fake name-claim at some point. As the day went on, I realised that all the vanillas had been nameless, but it was too late for me to go back on that. I needed to claim a power eventually.

And that may answer your next question - scum weren't given safe claims. They weren't allowed to talk pre-game either. Both of these actually made me laugh a few times when massive was going after me in Day 2. lol

If you're interested, here was my original PM:

Destructor

You are a Nazgul, slave of Sauron, along with Zycronium. Every night you and Zycronium gather with Sauron to discuss who you shall attack.

You win when the forces of good have been conquered.

You are a mafia goon, along with Zycronium. Your godfather is Sauron, more commonly known as Coolbot.

If you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask me.

Confirm via pm.

I assume that Frodo probably was in the setup originally, but I knew you were vanilla (picked something up Day 1) and every other player replaced in after the flavour had been stripped, so I was confident that I wouldn't be counterclaimed. The UnNKable thing seemed like a good idea since I could link it in flavourwise with Frodo's vest.

[ting =)]

Oh. Kudos. The frodo claim was good, imho.

Yeah, I was nameless vanilla. I wouldn't have been pretty confident of defending Matt otherwise.

[Talitha]

Might as well finish the formalities...

Final vote count

Destructor(3) - BridgesandBaloons, Matt_S, Sethaniel
BridgesandBaloons(1) - Destructor

Destructor is lynched. He was, of course, mafia.



I'd like to thank all the wonderful replacement players - like BaB, Sethaniel, Guardian and others.

I'd also like to thank the original players who stuck it out to the end, like Matt_S, destructor and ting =)

Players like you make it a pleasure to mod!