Mini 645 - Innocence Falls (Game Over)

[habitang]

OMGUS at Nureins and Simenon. Why be so exclusive for? It's like you two are bickering while the rest of us just give commentary on the side.

I can see how TPT is a good starting point for suspicions or non-suspicion. But I think it will be a nice break to stop arguing about TPT and start lookign at who is using this situation to their advantage. The way Nureins and Simenon are 'discussing' TPT makes me think they may just be two overzealous Townies if that makes sense.

Also I do not support how some players are reading into every single statement and wording. It makes the game not onyl hard to follow but we start to miss the point of what we were talking about in the first place.

Sorry Jahudo to seem to be directly on your case all the time, but your last post gives me the idea that you are supporting the convo in any direction, sorta like when you were questioning about random voting cept now the issue is more relevant and you aren't taking any stand on it. It's the most suspicious thing you've done so far. My first suspicion was to jolt some discussion, which I accepted your defence. But as this game progressively moves along, you are progressively moving along on my scum 'O' meter.

So I only think TPT has gone one step in the wrong direction and when he stops voting himself maybe he’ll make a move elsewhere.

And why would I want to cooperate with the town? Oh, right, you're all so sure that I'm a townie now, right? Night hasn't passed. I haven't been investigated, yet. No one really knows for sure. Even then, what if I end up being a Godfather; undetectable to a cop? Or what if I'm a milller, and wrongfully thought of as being scum?

Still, it’s posts like these that I think people have the most opposition towards.

[habitang]

EBWOP Mod: I unvoted YtHill before didn't I? if not unvote: YtHill

[Goatrevolt]

Habitang: Not everyone is going to comment on every single topic, and sometimes people ask specific players for their opinion on matters rather than everyone. I don't really see how it's scummy for someone to pose a question to 1 or 2 people to gauge their answers/reactions. I also find it interesting that you were the one earlier on who was so worried about scum directing the flow of discussion but yet you've been working so hard to push discussion in various directions yourself.

I also agree with the general sentiment that posts are getting way too long and it's tough to pick out the meaningful content from the chaff. Keep it succinct people.

[nureins]

(about Cass' argument
Explain what that essence is, because it isn't clear to me.

Post 105 was long enough as to clarify each point, especially if they are clear...Cass voted you because of you posting so much with so few words/arguments...I didnt agree with her words, though I did with the essence of this argument. I clarified later why I found you suspicious at first...Post 105, second of my paragraphs...

Both you and Cass like to throw out assertions without backing them up, and then when they're questioned, throw out more assertions. It's not helpful or clear.

is it not helpful to make assertions ? especially reasoned. I like to make reasoned assertions as to clarify my view on the game and spread my ideas about how/why people could be playing. This is my view of the game, dunno which is yours. Maybe is simply brevity. do you advocate for playing quicly day 1 ? i dont plant this, but making of it a long day...Im in no hurry...

Also, it is curious that YOU state that CASS and ME are making assertions without backing them. Am I the only laughing at this ? I guess the answer is NO..

See: I have no interest in decreasing the votes on him.

Umm curious...so I considered tpt mildly suspicious (he was competing with Ythill in my mind to get the first serious vote) and I WANTED TO DECREASE THE VOTES ON HIM because even for my thoughts, L-2 was exagerated for him. And YOU, who thought he was town, was not interested in decreasing the votes on him ?

Let's see, which is the word for this attitude ?

Either prove it or stop making the point. Recycling the same argument and not explaining is really, really annoying.

You made a non-reasoned assertion. You got a vote by Cass. You improved the number of votes on you. Q.E.D.

With respect to TPT, it is not your sentence what reduced the number of votes on him. Nobody has taken your words as an argument to cast out a vote. It has been the impression that L-2 and his autovote was too much crazy for his not so much scummy attitude. But thanks to your words, new ppl is looking at him more carefully than they did (I'm doing it, for instance)

1. Show where I've posted "gut feelings" as fact.
2. Show where I've backtracked.

First of all, I guess you want Cass to answer this question, asi you quote her. It is curious that in a post in which you put dozens of my quotes, you include one of Cass without clarifying she did. Especially curious when you try to put us in the same basket (you can read your first words in the post to support this assertion...).

Even if it is not for me, I'll answer anyway.

1.

TPT is town, by the way.

Clearly, not a very developed form of an opinion and the reasons of such opinion, but simply a statement declaration.

2. She did not. Her words were: "It also makes it very easy for him to backtrack on things he has said, LATER IN THE GAME", which was also a reason for which I didnt like an unreasoned statement by you. Pretty clear that no accusation to you of backtracking. Umm, by the way, is backtracking a word for what I let undefined in my debate about decreasing votes ?? umm Im just interrogating, not stating, though Im starting to answer myself that yes...so you didnt want to help tpt...you just put words for other reasons we cannot know...


[quote=
"simenon"]

You haven't yet. I will as soon as you start doing it. The excuse 'short posts are good' will not convince me.

That's pure crap. You can't seriously be accusing me of crimes I haven't committed, but will. That's plain silly. [/quote]

Now it is decided.

Vote:Simenon

Who is accusing you of backtracking now or in future? Your posts in which you try to sell the idea that Cass and Me were accusing you of things like backtracking are crap...your insistance is for me very scummish...

It may be just your posting style, but I'm starting to become suspicious of someone who is willing to say so much without actually taking a stand.

Ythill, i have no hurry to lynch people, I think a long day 1 can only help town. So I was not gonna join a bandwagon at L-2 only because I have a mild suspicion of someone. I take stands, and I try to reason them. Indeed, stands evolve, so I would like people to write their stands as much as some other people is doing as to understand better all the positions. you confound taking a stand with casting a vote at a semi-random stage...

we are just reading about people, and for me this phase can last for 30 pages (in my first mafia game ever, we are finishing day 1 with more than 20 pages, and we are only 9 players). And Id like the phase to last even more...Im old enough as to take notes on what the important things are...

[nureins]

The way Nureins and Simenon are 'discussing' TPT makes me think they may just be two overzealous Townies if that makes sense.

Also I do not support how some players are reading into every single statement and wording. It makes the game not onyl hard to follow but we start to miss the point of what we were talking about in the first place.

(very earlier in the game, about habitang)
I don't have specifics to reference, but this posts struck me as overtly leading. As if you are trying to bait the hook with theories against a couple of players to see if other innocent players pick up on them and run with it..

I also find it interesting that you were the one earlier on who was so worried about scum directing the flow of discussion but yet you've been working so hard to push discussion in various directions yourself.

@habitang: I'm not discussing TPT. I was discussing Ythill vs TPT before. Now I'm discussing Simenon's intervention in that game. Clearly, one of the only promising things in the game before your interventions. (do you prefer telegraphic wording ? I find it more confusing)

@Matin, Jahudo: after casting my vote on simenon and waiting for more information on my FOSSED tpt, do you want to discuss on my new

FOS: habitang

?

I think Matin's comment and Goat's one are pretty connected. Moreover, habitang is claiming that Simenon and Me distort attention on tpt debate when habitang before crossed some posts with Jahudo because Jahudo was "inflating" a stupid bandwagon on tpt based on funny things...I have to reread all the posts, but habitang:

Did you believe tpt's bandwagon was justified to arrive at L-2 ?
If the answer is YES: why were you "attacking" jahudo ?
If the answer is NO: why do you worry if I'm focusing on a different branch (that is, Simenon's intervention ?)

[Cass]

I like the activity in this game.

Simenon has to learn to read more carefully. Either that, or he is overly aggressive in a scummy manner. I feel good about my vote on him, overdefensiveness this early (with just one or two votes on him) also tends to be a scum-tell, plus his slight OMGUS-ing on me and nureins... bad vibes all over the place.

[Goatrevolt]

I'm not really buying the case on Simenon. I'll check into him tomorrow myself, but a lot of the things Cass just brought against him aren't scum tells at all. In fact I don't think any of those points suggest to me in any way that Simenon is scum. Cass, I want you to show me specifically where he's been aggressive "in a scummy manner", overdefensive, and the slight-OMGUS. I also would like you to show me specifically why those specific points are scummy or suggestive of him being scum.

I feel that none of those 3 are reliable scum tells at all. Aggressiveness is pretty much a null tell by itself, and only becomes a town/scum tell based on the manner in which it's used. Overdefensiveness is probably the term I hate most in mafia, because I think it's almost useless in catching scum but I see it thrown around so often. How do you quantify when someone has been overdefensive, and do scum always defend themselves more than townies? As for slight-OMGUS, I find OMGUS to be a weak tell as well. Also it's only OMGUS if his reason for pushing you is simply because you attacked him.

[Cass]

What I mean by overdefensive / aggressive is the way he went against me, half-reading and misinterpreting my posts in a very negative way. Just reread, it's only four or so posts. Even though mine was the first vote on him and I was hardly pushing a wagon there. Originally, he was just my first non-random vote.

Also, his overreaction on the comments about his 'TPT is town' post. IMO,

he

is the one who turned that into a big deal by responding the way he did.

The slight OMGUS is his 'I dislike Cass and Nuriens making assertions', while that was exactly what we were questioning him for. Also his hypocrisy about voicing gut feelings and how he claims he wasn't defending TPT when in fact he was.

[Simenon]

Oh Lawd, this game done blew up, gonna have to do a reread. Peoples be making some

long ass

posts.

Sorry.

OMGUS at Nureins and Simenon. Why be so exclusive for? It's like you two are bickering while the rest of us just give commentary on the side.

I don't easily drop arguments.

Post 105 was long enough as to clarify each point, especially if they are clear...Cass voted you because of you posting so much with so few words/arguments...I didnt agree with her words, though I did with the essence of this argument. I clarified later why I found you suspicious at first...Post 105, second of my paragraphs...

Here we go again.

What

words?

What

essence?

is it not helpful to make assertions ?

Not if you don't back them up!

especially reasoned.

Then they cease to be assertions when you reason them.

Also, it is curious that YOU state that CASS and ME are making assertions without backing them. Am I the only laughing at this ? I guess the answer is NO..

I'm sure anyone else would realize that I'm actually quoting your assertions, commenting on why they are assertions, and them asking you to back them up.

Umm curious...so I considered tpt mildly suspicious (he was competing with Ythill in my mind to get the first serious vote) and I WANTED TO DECREASE THE VOTES ON HIM because even for my thoughts, L-2 was exagerated for him. And YOU, who thought he was town, was not interested in decreasing the votes on him ?

Nope. I'm fine if people who I think are town get run up. I can be wrong, and I'm not about to disrupt the vast amount of information we can gain from a bandwagon.

Let's see, which is the word for this attitude ?

I would use "protown".

With respect to TPT, it is not your sentence what reduced the number of votes on him. Nobody has taken your words as an argument to cast out a vote.

But I stated that this wasn't my intention! Why are you going around in circles?

First of all, I guess you want Cass to answer this question, asi you quote her. It is curious that in a post in which you put dozens of my quotes, you include one of Cass without clarifying she did. Especially curious when you try to put us in the same basket (you can read your first words in the post to support this assertion...).

what

Even if it is not for me, I'll answer anyway.

Hey, that's bad for the town. Don't do that.

1. Clearly, not a very developed form of an opinion and the reasons of such opinion, but simply a statement declaration.

How do you know it wasn't developed? Just because I didn't develop that opinion in the thread doesn't mean I hadn't thought about it first.

2. She did not. Her words were: "It also makes it very easy for him to backtrack on things he has said, LATER IN THE GAME", which was also a reason for which I didnt like an unreasoned statement by you. Pretty clear that no accusation to you of backtracking. Umm, by the way, is backtracking a word for what I let undefined in my debate about decreasing votes ?? umm Im just interrogating, not stating, though Im starting to answer myself that yes...so you didnt want to help tpt...you just put words for other reasons we cannot know...

When she said so, I responded to it by saying that her comment was useless. It's about as helpful as "I think you're are going to be scum, so I'll vote you." It's a nonreason.

Who is accusing you of backtracking now or in future? Your posts in which you try to sell the idea that Cass and Me were accusing you of things like backtracking are crap...your insistance is for me very scummish...

No, they aren't. Reread the Cass post.

And for god's sake stop treating your self like a dual account.

[Simenon]

I feel good about my vote on him, overdefensiveness this early (with just one or two votes on him) also tends to be a scum-tell

"Defending yourself, are you, scum? HAH! Overdefensive!"
I did once actually think this was a valid argument back when I first started playing, until I played as scum and realized just how easy it was to lynch townies with the "Attack them, then when they defend themselves call them overdefensive" trap.

Great Yos quote.

plus his slight OMGUS-ing on me and nureins... bad vibes all over the place.

No, I have not.

And Cass, you turned it into a big issue when you used it as a basis for voting me. I'm doing nothing else except responding to your arguments.

[Simenon]

Corrections:

Then

asking you to back them up.
think are town

getting

run up

[Cass]

Simenon, all I did was swap my random vote for a vote with a weak reason. The way you responded to that makes it a vote with a

stronger

reason.

You are still contradicting yourself. First you say "X is town", is a good post - now you say "assertions must be backed up". Those two opinions are mutually exclusive.
If you can say "X is town", why can't I say "X gives me scummy vibes". Or "misrepresenting is scummy". What's the difference? That it's directed at you?
If I had posted "Simenon is town", would you have urged me to back it up?

[Jahudo]

Sorry Jahudo to seem to be directly on your case all the time, but your last post gives me the idea that you are supporting the convo in any direction, sorta like when you were questioning about random voting cept now the issue is more relevant and you aren't taking any stand on it. It's the most suspicious thing you've done so far. My first suspicion was to jolt some discussion, which I accepted your defence.

I initially turned my attention towards TPT because he voted for someone (Matin) jokingly or half-serious because Matin voted for me (random/joke) for voting Ectomancer (random/joke). It was his questions that could and can be interpreted as half-serious with or without his jokes in the same posts.

That conversation evolved when TPT started sounding more sarcastic, although I admit like he did that text can confuse intonation. TPT's self-vote also made me keep attention on him but now I've came around through Simenon's words to the possibility that TPT is frustrated town.

At this point in the conversation, TPT hasn't spoken since Wednesday which isn't bad in itself, but until I see an effort from him to scumhunt seriously and/or give opinions on cases other than himself I do not think we should just ignore him. That is my stand but I did not vote him to L-1 because he had already resigned to voting himself. There wasn't a threat for him to be quick-lynched without the hammer looking real bad, but there wasn't much hope another vote would prod him in such a way that he would convince others to unvote.

He didn't act like an obvious scum but his words and actions were not constructive, so I wait until he changes or refuses to change. That is also my opinion.
-------------------
@nureins - My FoS on Simenon was for two reasons but his recent posts have answered them for me and I think his defense has been solid.

1) I said Simenon "defended" TPT when he said "TPT is town". It depends on your definition of the word is is. I saw it as 'equals' but if he wants to use it as shorthand for 'feels' that's OK. He didn't press the issue either way in that post so other's opinions shouldn't be impacted by him.

2) His vote on Ythill did not meld with my own take on Ythill's words and actions. Ythill said he'd "consider" TPT's response in post 50 which I took to mean he'd think it over and post later, maybe let TPT post again and allow them to question each other. It wasn't backing down like Simenon said in post 73. Simenon also said that TPT's post 41 couldn't be taken seriously. That isn't the word I'd use to describe it either but I do think his Matin re-accusation/Jack Nicholson joke sounded like leading in a funny way but still leading.

[Simenon]

Simenon, all I did was swap my random vote for a vote with a weak reason. The way you responded to that makes it a vote with a

stronger

reason.

It's you reacting to me that is the cause of your vote. That doesn't mean I'm created that reaction in you on purpose

You are still contradicting yourself. First you say "X is town", is a good post - now you say "assertions must be backed up". Those two opinions are mutually exclusive.

Don't be dense. I responded to your original post by saying assertions are bad when you try to lynch somebody for it. If you had actually read that, you wouldn't need to bring it up again.

If you can say "X is town", why can't I say "X gives me scummy vibes". Or "misrepresenting is scummy". What's the difference? That it's directed at you?

I would have no problem with that. That's a statement that doesn't need verifying.

But "You have done X, which is why I'm voting you"

does.

Because if you aren't going to go through the effort of actually proving it, what good is it?

"X is town", on the other hand, can't be proven. You can't even prove it if you say "X is town because he did Y". You can't ever prove it. Which is why "evidence" is such a dead and useless word.

If I had posted "Simenon is town", would you have urged me to back it up?

Nope.

[Cass]

Allright. That sounds reasonable. And I have to be careful not to tunnelvision, especially this early in the game.

Unvote: Simenon

[Ectomancer]

Well, I think not helping town is generally a scum-tell But yes, if there is no evidence on anyone, I think lynching the least helpful player is not a bad thing. It's the smallest loss for town, and he might just be scum... I much prefer evidence, though.

Ugh. This post contains my three least favorite words: "scumtell", "evidence", and "least-helpful"

You don't like evidence? That's gotta be some kind of a scumtell.

Dont muddy the waters.

Nurein has inferred Ectomancer as a voice of authority once too many times for me to trust his motivations. His voice is lending authority (and his vote) now to Cass, making her case seem stronger. Questionable player in my mind is Nurein.
Cass is not only pushing for information, but is now using popular opinion to push a lynch for Simenon. (this is momentum folks, Im not necessarily looking at votes)
Goatrevolt has the situation well assessed as near as I can tell.

I had no problems with Simenon's simple statement that TPT was town. I briefly considered asking him about it, but decided it was gut by him, and an invitation to have scum come sniffing around him looking for power roles/more info/etc.
I'm still uncertain about TPT myself (I think Simenon is too, but wanted to derail a quick lynch).
Cass and Nurein have moved to my top suspects at this point, and I'm more likely to believe that Nurein is pandering scum right now.

vote Nurein

[Matin]

Allright. That sounds reasonable. And I have to be careful not to tunnelvision, especially this early in the game.

Unvote: Simenon

That was a quick reversal of course..

@nureins - yes I still find habitang suspicious. Many of his posts remind me of the way I've seen people play as scum. Throw stuff out there, see if another townie bits and runs with it, and the when the accused flips scum, someone else lead the charge. Also didn't like his statement about the self vote quoted below, where he inferred he didn't know who had done it or the modest reinforcement that it's a scum tell, that another unknown poster suggested. Just something very non commital about all of it..

Oh wow! This is like a SUPER game! So much posting, it is awesome compared to all the other games I've played!

LOL at whoever voted themself!

I did that last time and I was Townie so I can sympathyise a little, but at the same time, I don't really think you were pushed to the edge like me to pull out a self-vote. It is either really childish or

actually scummy as someone mentioned above, I think.

<snip>

That being said, I have to admit that this is mainly a visceral reaction and he could easily be looking for consensus/support before pressuring...

[Ectomancer]

Allright. That sounds reasonable. And I have to be careful not to tunnelvision, especially this early in the game.

Unvote: Simenon

That was a quick reversal of course..

@nureins - yes I still find habitang suspicious. Many of his posts remind me of the way I've seen people play as scum. Throw stuff out there, see if another townie bits and runs with it, and the when the accused flips scum, someone else lead the charge. Also didn't like his statement about the self vote quoted below, where he inferred he didn't know who had done it or the modest reinforcement that it's a scum tell, that another unknown poster suggested. Just something very non commital about all of it..

Oh wow! This is like a SUPER game! So much posting, it is awesome compared to all the other games I've played!

LOL at whoever voted themself!

I did that last time and I was Townie so I can sympathyise a little, but at the same time, I don't really think you were pushed to the edge like me to pull out a self-vote. It is either really childish or

actually scummy as someone mentioned above, I think.

<snip>

That being said, I have to admit that this is mainly a visceral reaction and he could easily be looking for consensus/support before pressuring...

I looked up the game and he did self-vote, and he did turn up town. Clearly he was skimming the game, saw a self-vote, felt compelled to post because he had just done something similiar, but didnt really read much else. I dont see anything sinister in this post.

[Cass]

@Matin - how was that a quick reversal? He defended himself like four times before I dropped the case. I also find that if I tunnelvision on day one, I'm usually wrong.

For the record: what I disliked most about Sim, was the way he misread and misrepresented me. Everything else was pretty irrevelant. I think that's also what Nuriens picked up on, making his vote in my eyes a null-tell.
Did he do anything scummy besides supporting my vote?

[nureins]

Post 105 was long enough as to clarify each point, especially if they are clear...Cass voted you because of you posting so much with so few words/arguments...I didnt agree with her words, though I did with the essence of this argument. I clarified later why I found you suspicious at first...Post 105, second of my paragraphs...

Here we go again.

What

words?

What

essence?

Are you making fun of me ?? are you serious ? I said, Post 105, second of my paragraphs. There you can read my quotation of Cass' words, and which essence of these words I accepted...

Then they cease to be assertions when you reason them.

Look, Im spanish, so if you want to make riddles with language, Im not gonna follow you. Do it as you want.

Definition of Assertion:
a positive statement or declaration, often without support or reason

OFTEN is not ALWAYS. OFTEN means there are lot of ppl who makes assertions without support or reason, as you did in "TPT is town".
I prefer to do them with support or reason, and I typically do...they obviously remain assertions, because they are positive statements or declarations that I do...

Nope. I'm fine if people who I think are town get run up.

Then one of the following two:

1. Either you are scum, in which case you are fine with people who you think are town get run up (and I guess the reason is obvious).

2. You do not assign credibility to your own beliefs. Because I do, and if I think someone is town, I prefer scum to get run up...

First of all, I guess you want Cass to answer this question, asi you quote her. It is curious that in a post in which you put dozens of my quotes, you include one of Cass without clarifying she did. Especially curious when you try to put us in the same basket (you can read your first words in the post to support this assertion...).

what

You wrote a post with a dozen of my quotes...but without specifying it, you include a quote of Cass' words (about backtracking). You mixed her with me, and you misunderstood (in the most benevolent way of thinking) her words and stated that we are accusing you of backtracking...

Please be clear with your quotes. And please do not put in other people's mouth things they have not said...

Even if it is not for me, I'll answer anyway.

Hey, that's bad for the town. Don't do that.

Why is bad for town that I answered these questions that you did to (me, cass ? who knows to whom you did, since you didnt quote correctly...)

When she said so, I responded to it by saying that her comment was useless. It's about as helpful as "I think you're are going to be scum, so I'll vote you." It's a nonreason.

This is false in my opinion. Her comment was very useless, and I do agree with the essence of this argument. Making a statement like you did puts you in a very vague position about TPT. You just say he is town...without specifying why or how...so later in the game, depending on how it goes, you can modify your argument in whichever direction you need. For me, this is very scummish...

Who is accusing you of backtracking now or in future? Your posts in which you try to sell the idea that Cass and Me were accusing you of things like backtracking are crap...your insistance is for me very scummish...

No, they aren't. Reread the Cass post.

the first sentence is not well formed, as it does not answer my question.
the second sentence: I already reread it. Cass didnt accuse you of backtracking at any moment.

[Matin]

I looked up the game and he did self-vote, and he did turn up town. Clearly he was skimming the game, saw a self-vote, felt compelled to post because he had just done something similiar, but didnt really read much else. I dont see anything sinister in this post.

Sinister might be too strong word, I was thinking day 1 suspicious.

@Cass - agreed about tunnel vision, just seemed quick when I read it cause you seemed fairly stuck on your vote up till that point and I didn't see anything different in Sim's defense then he had done previously.

[nureins]

Nurein has inferred Ectomancer as a voice of authority once too many times for me to trust his motivations.

False.
I dont infer you as a voice of authority.

Summing up:

1. I felt you townie because you followed same patterns of thought I did.
2. I felt you were failing my townie feeling because of your position in TPT
3. I partially accepted I could be mistaken in my analysis of 1 to 4 (in my initial view, 1 or 3 were the mild interesting points, whereas you claimed 2 to be the important...and after simenon's intervention I started to think that 2 could be true)
4. Without writting it down at any moment, I also felt you reacted correctly to tpt and unvoted him later on.

Cass and Nurein have moved to my top suspects at this point, and I'm more likely to believe that Nurein is pandering scum right now.

vote Nurein

Then 5. you are very wrong but yet welcome to ask me whatever you want...

If you want my impression about Cass, I truly believe she is looking for scum in Simenon's comment. For me clearly is something scummish.
And clearly, she is not pushing for simenon's lynch, as he is occupying a "third" position in the TPT-Ythill game (in votes and in importance). Maybe not in bytes, but this is probably only because I write too much, and it seems to me that simenon likes too (what again strikes me up the question of why the hell he did such comment without any reasoning)

[Ythill]

@ Sim:

Please answer my question from the last page...

@ Simeon: I didn't choose to refrain from arguing. I opted to refrain from arguing

at that moment

, for two reasons. (1) I was leaving for work. (2) Pope's answer caught me a little off guard because I couldn't imagine anyone claiming that his previous statement (#25) was a joke.

So, in other words, you chose not to argue it, whatever your reasons.

Absouletly not. Choosing to argue something

later, after consideration

is not the same as choosing to not argue it at all. You seem too bright to have misread that accidentally, but I'll ask rather than assume. Did you?

In spite of this, Sim is looking more and more town, as is Cass. Nuriens, on the other hand...

@ nuriens:

When I said you wouldn't take a stand, it had nothing to do with you not voting. It had everything to do with your extensive use of qualifying phrases. Good townies are not afraid to be wrong and, especially since English is not your first language, I'd think you understand the power of qualifiers to make a statement ambivalent.

Other things I find suspicious: basing your current case on theory disagreements, suspicion growing against Sim while his tells have been showing more town than scum, suddenly both taking a stance and making a vote in answer to my accusation, and buddying to Cass.

unvote; vote nuriens

[The Pope's Tiara]

Nurein has inferred Ectomancer as a voice of authority once too many times for me to trust his motivations.

I think you meant that he

implied

it.

Unvote, Vote: Ectomancer

[Jahudo]

Nurein has inferred Ectomancer as a voice of authority once too many times for me to trust his motivations.

I think you meant that he

implied

it.

Unvote, Vote: Ectomancer

Inferred and implied are synonyms. Is that your attempt at scumhunting? Did I get my hopes up for nothing?

Vote: The Pope's Tiara