Mini 645 - Innocence Falls (Game Over)

[The Pope's Tiara]

Nurein has inferred Ectomancer as a voice of authority once too many times for me to trust his motivations.

I think you meant that he

implied

it.

Unvote, Vote: Ectomancer

Inferred and implied are synonyms. Is that your attempt at scumhunting? Did I get my hopes up for nothing?

Vote: The Pope's Tiara

So very wrong.

Anna told Bobby that all the non-blue liquids were poisoned and then hands Bobby a glass with an orange liquid.
Bobby would

infer or deduce

that Anna was trying to poison Bobby.
Anna

implied or suggested

that the liquid she was holding was poisonous.

Why do people always mix those up?

Fos: Jahudo

[Ectomancer]

infer
Verb
[-ferring, -ferred]
1. to conclude by reasoning from evidence; deduce
2. Not standard to imply or suggest [Latin inferre to bring into]
USAGE: The use of infer to mean imply is common in both speech and writing, but is regarded by many people as incorrect.

Where I'm from it's commonly accepted, besides, you have not yet established that scum are more likely to use infer, and town is more likely to use imply. Maybe while you're in that dictionary there, you should also look up the word logic.

[The Pope's Tiara]

Infer has an angry sound to it. He in

FERS

. Imply has sort of a nice ending. He implied that I was pretty awesome in that post.

See?

Oh, and doing a bit of meta-gaming. A scum is 59% more likely to use infer and a townie is 63% more likely to use imply. Statistically, you're more likely to be scum.

[Jahudo]

Who knew one could learn proper English from the Internets? I googled infer vs imply and it looks like I was incorrect in specifically calling them synonyms.

So if someone gets the idea from your behavior that you are scum, then they are inferring you are scum, but if they let you know they think so, then they imply it. And you can infer from their implication that they think you are scum?

Or in other words, the sender implies and the receiver infers? And since you say real scum are more likely to infer then they also are taking that suggestion of scummyness out of someone’s behavior, inferring that this must be so; but a town is more likely to imply because they are trying to convince themselves that someone’s scum? Wait, I think I’m lost again.

What does this have to do with Ectomancer? He's calling nurein an inferer for implying that Ecto is town?

[The Pope's Tiara]

Who knew one could learn proper English from the Internets? I googled infer vs imply and it looks like I was incorrect in specifically calling them synonyms.

So if someone gets the idea from your behavior that you are scum, then they are inferring you are scum, but if they let you know they think so, then they imply it. And you can infer from their implication that they think you are scum?

Or in other words, the sender implies and the receiver infers? And since you say real scum are more likely to infer then they also are taking that suggestion of scummyness out of someone’s behavior, inferring that this must be so; but a town is more likely to imply because they are trying to convince themselves that someone’s scum? Wait, I think I’m lost again.

What does this have to do with Ectomancer? He's calling nurein an inferer for implying that Ecto is town?

Right. He's trying to push that title on someone else. A classic reversal tactic.

Up till now, he hasn't had a

lot

of serious pressure, yet. He's more or less just been a sideliner and commenting occasionally. Is this a coincidence or is he really just scum?

[habitang]

I havn't read everything yet. But TpT has a poor FoS on Jahudo. I didn't get it.

And I agree with Matin who said I am directing conversation, well that is my take on everything pretty much, everyone gets focused on one thing that they miss other avenues so that is what I am tryign to do, if you think it is a bad avenue then give your reasons for it but I do not think it is a scum-tell to do so.

Sorry will post properly later.

[Erratus Apathos]

EBWOP Mod: I unvoted YtHill before didn't I? if not unvote: YtHill

Indeed you did. (It helps mods out if you put your votes on a new line rather than in the middle of a paragraph.)


Vote Count

Simenon: (2) Andycyca, nureins
nureins: (2) Ectomancer, Ythill
The Pope's Tiara: (2) nhat, Jahudo
Ythill: (1) Simenon
Jahudo: (1) Matin
Ectomancer: (1) The Pope's Tiara


Not voting: Goatrevolt, habitang, Cass

[nureins]

When I said you wouldn't take a stand, it had nothing to do with you not voting. It had everything to do with your extensive use of qualifying phrases. Good townies are not afraid to be wrong and, especially since English is not your first language, I'd think you understand the power of qualifiers to make a statement ambivalent.

This is a funny argument. Before voting someone for his writting style, I would have take a read to some of his posts in other games...obviously, you didnt.

Other things I find suspicious: basing your current case on theory disagreements, ]suspicion growing against Sim while his tells have been showing more town than scum, suddenly both taking a stance and making a vote in answer to my accusation, and buddying to Cass.

1. theory disagreements ?? my initial suspicion is based on simenon's intervention in tpt vs ythill.
2. suspicion came into a vote. Why do you think later on he has gone a lot up ? Cass already unvoted him...and I could do the same or not depending on the existence of a better suspect...
3. FALSE. READ MY POST. I WAS ANSWERING POSTS ONE BY ONE. IF I WERE SCUM I WOULDNT USE SUCH RIDICULOUS STRATEGY TO HIDE A VOTE, DONT U THINK ?
But obviously, you havent read my posts very carefully, just you jumped over me the same way you jumped when I mentioned you the first time...too many quick votes for someone who is reluctant to cast votes in the beginning.

At least you could have used Ectomancer's arguments, which were incorrect but credibe (oh, ectomancer, am I claiming your authority again ? now it sounds more like authority, not like townie-reading, haha)

OMGUS vote:

UNVOTE. VOTE: Ythill

[nureins]

Infer has an angry sound to it. He in

FERS

. Imply has sort of a nice ending. He implied that I was pretty awesome in that post.

See?

Oh, and doing a bit of meta-gaming. A scum is 59% more likely to use infer and a townie is 63% more likely to use imply. Statistically, you're more likely to be scum.

I yet have you up in my scumeter, so the following words are kind of autotherapy more than claiming your authority.

I hope you are false, haha, because in my first mafiagame im playing, I already have the feeling to be "dominated" by a player (unfortunately for my ego, an adolescent, haha). As I answered back to Ectomancer, I clearly was simply reading townie words from him and talking them openly...sharing information is the way to win for town, i truly believe it...
I yet read Ectomancer's words as protownie, and I dont think his vote to me and his words were scummy. I could imagine myself asking a similar question to a player like me...

About the IMPLY/INFER point, i better dont give my opinion, my english is horrible...

[Ectomancer]

All I will say about the imply/infer situation is that he has a long row to hoe if he intends that to be a case against someone.

[Simenon]

Unvote

More later.

[nureins]

my first "scumeter"

Some scum-hints from up to down...

Ythill. In my view, he has jumped over two persons with very poor arguments. Especially inconsistent with someone that claims early voting is not his speciality and that claims that never goes for early voting...

Simenon. Have the opinion that he is refusing to enter "rational" debates, or if im allowed to judge a bit without offending, behaves arrogant...Im confused about this way of playing. In my view, all town strategy has to be about sharing information about scum attitudes and behaving that way hardly you can communicate with others...

TPT. Very strange feelings with him. TPT is hard to jugde for me right now (due to ectomancer's inquiry on me and subsequent tpt reaction, since im not sure how "pure" my view on him is. This doesnt mean that Ectomancer is intoxicating me negatively, since i clearly think ecto is town, but im thinking myself as extremely influenced by other's opinions in this game and the ecto-tpt debate confirms to me) but I didnt like specially his autovote, as he announces himself as an experienced-rational player.

Habitang. Have had no time to analyze his play in detail, but find his participations "jumping-way". Especially significant is his attack to Jahudo, about which Im yet waiting his answer...

Andycyca: Lot of lurking posting. Desire someone to start a wagon against him at some moment to see his reactions...

From the rest, I have townie reads most of the time...maybe some minor details could be added, but not significant up to now...

[Cass]

I do not understand the imply / infer debate. Is it even meant to be serious? English is not my first language either - I do understand the difference between the two words, but not how one would be more aggressive, or scummier??

I also fail to see Habitang's case on Jahudo.

I dislike TPT's playstyle. I find it very hard to tell when he is serious. He seems to try to distract town with irrelevant stuff (like infer/imply). I don't see him scum-hunting yet.

FoS: The Pope's Tiara

Andycyca: I had almosy forgotten he's in the game. That is not a good sign at all. Here's a vote, to put a bit of a spotlight on you... you deserve it

Vote: Andycyca

[Jahudo]

I can see that in andy's lack of posting. His last two posts were to say he'd be limited access and was going to catch up and answer, but gave no content related info at that time. Besides him, nhat is also less frequently posting than others with his last two posts to infer/imply/ask if TPT is a 12 year old (loved it) and then to say this game is going at a fast pace. And nhat might be right, it's been what 5 days since the start? But it would still be nice to hear what andy was going to catch up and comment.

[The Pope's Tiara]

All I will say about the imply/infer situation is that he has a long row to hoe if he intends that to be a case against someone.

It helps if you imagine James Gandolfini or Marlin Brando saying your posts.

[Andycyca]

Answer to 93:

Part 1: How is it OMGUS? Who says that I haven't been psycho-analyzing all of you? Meta-gaming each person in this thread to build a gigantic spreadsheet of knowledge and a complete profile on each person. Collecting every bit of detail with internet dectivetry. Finding out how you work, think, act, and post whilst playing different parts. Who says I haven't figured out that Ythill is scum? And I think we know who the other scum is

It's OMGUS because you first complained about him voting you, then voting back.

I don't recall you psycho-analysing me.

Part 2: If I was worried about mislynching, why would I offer up myself like that. Maybe I was trying a new strategy that failed and brought about a lot of unvoting?

I've found in my short experience that questions of the type "Why would I..." lead to a lot of WIFOM. Please, don't question ME about YOUR motifs.

What does OTOH stand for?

On The Other Hand. Sorry, that one's not very common.

And why would I want to cooperate with the town? Oh, right, you're all so sure that I'm a townie now, right? Night hasn't passed. I haven't been investigated, yet. No one really knows for sure. Even then, what if I end up being a Godfather; undetectable to a cop? Or what if I'm a milller, and wrongfully thought of as being scum?

You'd cooperate with town because that' would turn you protown before everyone else. It's a great strategy for both scum and town.

Do you really know even close to enough to back up what you've said? Everything posted has pretty much just been built on speculation. An almost absurd amount of speculatory material is being used to make accusations.

I'm just a townie, I don't have anything more than these posts to back up my statements. Since I don't have any real information, I must use speculation (just as everyone else) We, the uninformed majority, won't have anything we know to be 100% true until D2.

You know how, if you've ever played Clue, and you're so sure of the murder weapon, and the murderer, but it could be one of two rooms? Another player gets that look in their eye like they know what's what and are going to go for the win next turn. You're stuck there in quite a quagmire, make a guess based on speculations or wait it out and hope for the best? That's where you guys are, making that guess as the mafia gets the glint in their eye.

And if you make the wrong guess, I will watch in delight as the house of cards comes tumbling down.

I don't play Clue. Mafia is SO much better I'm not perfect, I can make mistakes , but guess what? I'm not worried about that.

Shit

Mislynches happen

I guess my only question for you is, why so serious?

Why not? Sometimes I'm in the mood for sarcasm, sometimes I'm not.

[Andycyca]

You haven't yet. I will as soon as you start doing it. The excuse 'short posts are good' will not convince me.

That's pure crap. You can't seriously be accusing me of crimes I haven't committed, but will. That's plain silly.

Now it is decided.

Vote:Simenon

Who is accusing you of backtracking now or in future? Your posts in which you try to sell the idea that Cass and Me were accusing you of things like backtracking are crap...your insistance is for me very scummish...

The accusation is right there. Where it says: "you haven't yet. I will as soon as you start doing it". You might argue saying that cass' quote is just a stylish FoS, but why say it? everyone should be looking at everyone's behavior, there's no need to say it again.

"Defending yourself, are you, scum? HAH! Overdefensive!"
I did once actually think this was a valid argument back when I first started playing, until I played as scum and realized just how easy it was to lynch townies with the "Attack them, then when they defend themselves call them overdefensive" trap.

(where's that quote from, Sim?)

Good townies are not afraid to be wrong and, especially since English is not your first language, I'd think you understand the power of qualifiers to make a statement ambivalent.

<3 that one, Ythill

3. FALSE. READ MY POST. I WAS ANSWERING POSTS ONE BY ONE. IF I WERE SCUM I WOULDNT USE SUCH RIDICULOUS STRATEGY TO HIDE A VOTE, DONT U THINK ?
But obviously, you havent read my posts very carefully, just you jumped over me the same way you jumped when I mentioned you the first time...too many quick votes for someone who is reluctant to cast votes in the beginning.

This is the same as with TPT. I don't see how that kind of questions help. Also, remember that random/non-random votes is not the same as voting speed.

Also, which quick votes are you referring to exactly?

OMGUS vote

Admitting to OMGUS is one of the most antitown attitudes.

Andycyca: Lot of lurking posting. Desire someone to start a wagon against him at some moment to see his reactions...

Lots?

I'm not against pressure wagons, but I want to know:

@nureins: if you wanted to see a pressure wagon on me, why didn't you vote (I'm not within quicklynch, I hope)?

@Cass: I'm OK with the pressurevote, but to answer anything, I need some questions first. Do you have any? is pressure your only reason to vote me?

[Ythill]

The grammar debate was entertaining but utterly pointless.

@ Simenon: For chrisskaes, answer the question. Did you accidentally misread my response about arguing later vs. not arguing at all? What, am I typing in braile?

@ nuriens: I said I don't joke vote. Then I explained the difference between that and early voting. Stop twisting my words, scum.

I'll have little to no internet access until Tuesday night. Going camping for my birthday. When I return, I'll give comment on whatever has transpired.

[Simenon]

@ Simenon: For chrisskaes, answer the question. Did you accidentally misread my response about arguing later vs. not arguing at all? What, am I typing in braile?

You'd actually have to wait for me to become available to answer the question.

No, I did not misread it. My point just wasn't valid, that's all.

[habitang]

Still no proper post. This is getting really hard to follow, there are like so many conversations going on. But it seems that suspects so far are TPT, Simenon, Nureins?

To me Jahudo has cleared, not because everyone doesn't agree, but I thought I caught him doing suspicious stuff and in teh end rather than being more careful about what he does, as a scum would. He goes and does somethign silly like vote TPT on the basis of literacy. I should be jumping all over that but I don't think scum would be so dumb to do that if they are being suspected. So my conclusion for now is that Jahudo really has nothing to be afraid of.

As for TPT, his playstyle is really unhelpful, putting aside all the at-times humourous sarcasm, his vote on ectomancer and Fos on Jahudo don't carry any weight. So TPT is not high on my scum suspicions ...yet, havn't really checked him out. But I am checking out other possibilities for now.

[habitang]

I find both Nureins and Simenon to be Townies in friendly-fire battle. Which by the way is not helping Townie since scum don't need to do much to get one lynch.

Can we not argue so much but rather do some investigating, and also you both (Nureins and Simenon) need to stop biting on every single thing the other person says. If they say something scummy, then let us know, don't quote eveyrthing they say and say all of it is scummy, even if they are scum, not evyerthing scum say is scummy. I agree with Ectomancer on Cass seemign to push the argument in the Nureins Simenon crossfire. At the same time I would accuse Ectomancer of pushing arguments by pairing up Cass and Nureins.

I honestly would rather not hear anymore between Nureins and Simenon. I think it is Townie killing Townie.

vote:Andycyca

Andycyca, I'm glad you responded, but your response didn't implicate anyone. And if this is how you are going to be posting, only when asked and even then only at a very surface level then I would find you less helpful than TPT.

I forgot to thank Ecto for defending my case earlier about the self-vote. Thank you Ectomancer for putting your but on the line for my case.

[nureins]

The accusation is right there. Where it says: "you haven't yet. I will as soon as you start doing it". You might argue saying that cass' quote is just a stylish FoS, but why say it? everyone should be looking at everyone's behavior, there's no need to say it again.

Andy, you have gone back only until post 118 (by Cass). Please go back until post 115 (by Simenon), in which he is the first that assumes someone has accused him. He says explicitly, SHOW ME WHERE I'VE BACKTRACKED (If i remember correctly). Before 115, No Cass word was saying he did, just saying stating someone is town without any reasoning allows someone to hide a lot of intentions and modify later in whatever direction, and therefore, it is not useful for town but only for scum...

OMGUS vote

Admitting to OMGUS is one of the most antitown attitudes.

I am completely sure that you are able to understand the difference between an OMGUS attitude and someone who "announces" that the following vote can be labelled (only because of formalism) as an OMGUS' vote according to the definition...

Andycyca: Lot of lurking posting. Desire someone to start a wagon against him at some moment to see his reactions...

I'm not against pressure wagons, but I want to know:

@nureins: if you wanted to see a pressure wagon on me, why didn't you vote (I'm not within quicklynch, I hope)?

[/quote]
For two reasons. The first, that I had a clear objective, so my vote is casted accordingly. The second, that Ectomancer is yet dealing with his pressure on me, and I do not want him to get lost in the forest with a vote on someone who is just in my scumeter because of absence of posts. So I kindly "asked" to people to start this wagon (and probably Cass who believes that Im town, accepted the invitation).

I do not think you are in quicklynch at all, but Id like to see more words (in this forum, in this game, about this game ) from you to end up forming an opinion.

[nureins]

@ nuriens: I said I don't joke vote. Then I explained the difference between that and early voting. Stop twisting my words, scum.

The only thing you have said is :

"1. It's my apology for refusing to post a random vote. I try to get a content-based vote out as soon as I have a lead, even if it's a minor one. "

So I'll build on that. Quite funny to me. You dont want to "joke vote", but whatever reason, even if it is a minor one, is valid later for doing a (how to call that?? almost-joke-vote apologizing for what ??). Now few posts later, not only you have moved again from your minor case, now you claim another person is definitely SCUM. And you call that person Scum while you go on camping...great...If you want me to cheer up a debate on how compatible the word scum and myself are, you are welcome...i can be the moderator if you want, since you leave

[nureins]

I honestly would rather not hear anymore between Nureins and Simenon. I think it is Townie killing Townie.

I dont usually follow the advices of those who are in my scumeter and refuse to answer my questions DIRECTLY. If you want them to be repeated, here they are:

Did you believe tpt's bandwagon was justified to arrive at L-2 ?
If the answer is YES: why were you "attacking" jahudo ?
If the answer is NO: why do you worry if I'm focusing on a different branch (that is, Simenon's intervention ?)

[habitang]

You are persistent aren't you.
Tpt's bandwagon...hmmm. It was L-2, not that important but anyway. I think it was justified, eveyrone has their opinions and I can see how people would want to vote TPT.

I'm of teh notion that if eveyrone is focused somewhere, I like to look elsewhere. I think there is little need for me to lend eyes to someone that already has 3 pairs of eyes on him. It is also during these moments that scum will use to their advantage and I felt Jahudo may have been doing that at the time.

Plus what's so bad about me attacking Jahudo if I think he is scum? I'd rather I attack each person individually than for us to arrive at a lynch on one person just because eveyrone agreed to it.
Information is valuable. Investigations are valuable... and I can't think of a third valuable thing beginning with 'I' to complete my profound statement...I am valuable?