Mini Normal 2148 (Post Game)

[Green Crayons]

Surely there is some middle ground between a "fully formed vote"--which, this is mafia, so ????--and "plac[ing] 27 in a day."


What do you think about a Dunn vote?

[stungun0404]

V/LA until Monday

Will try to post when I can though.

[farside22]

I do it to get that glare from you farside

I hate to say it but I’m still ok with a Dunn lynch. As much as I didn’t like BM’s posts.. the SG flop is going to be a turn off right now in terms of voting there until I sort that out. Gera is off the table for today, but note I’m not sold on him being scum
Or town. He’s really null for me; the same with NM.

What do you think of GC's reaction and comments about BM and SG?

[Not_Mafia]

just looked at Not_mafia's posts.
urgh hate them.

spewing votes around, just a ton of "this person is scum" with nothing to back it up

Votato's GC vote was really bad

This random post, no idea how they can object to anyone else's votes.

find this slot incredibly unhelpful and providing no value. think this is the person I would most want to not be in day 2 so far

I'm town

[Jake The Wolfie]

*w*

Vote Count 1.10

Dunnstral (4):

DoctorPepper, farside22, HK 50, [notscience]

clidd (3):

Not_Mafia, Green Crayons, stungun0404

Green Crayons (2):

votato, clidd

votato (1):

Malakittens

notscience (1):

geraintm

geraintm (1):

bob3141

Not_Mafia (1):

Dunnstral

Not voting (0):

---

Mod Notes:

Majority is 7 players.

Day 1 has begun and will end in (expired on 2020-06-24 07:23:04).

There was an error in the previous VC which has been corrected.

notscience is V/LA until Sunday, and has handed their vote to Malakittens.
farside22 is V/LA for (expired on 2020-06-19 13:49:13).
Doctor Pepper is V/LA for (expired on 2020-06-21 10:29:00).
stungun0404 is V/LA until Monday[/area]

[bob3141]

Like, 637 suggests you would at least want to vote NM instead of your random vote.

But nope.

Are you paralyzed by doubt? Lazy? Scum? Who knows!

You *not* updating your vote is going to make sorting you much more difficult in later days.

doubt I guess. I want my vote to actually mean something. i'd rather everyone placed fully formed votes, rather than people who place 27 in a day. that isn't helpful either when trying to sort them. at least you know when I vote I mean it.

Germa there is one thing not voting until you're sure, if there is plenty of time still till deadline but it's entirely different not giving reads either way. There are 13 players in this game and one of them is you. I find it impossible if your town that you haven't at the very least got some slight reads. Maybe not strong reads but reads at least slightly off null.


Clearly one vote is not enough pressure to get you to actually post some basic content. At this stage you have less committal content then bambi last game. And we collectively let him lurk that game.

If you're not scum then. Not even giving us some basic reads makes it harder for us to sort you. Risking us being tricked into mislynching you.

[stungun0404]

That’s what bothered me is I’m like I read SG going after GC but why is he voting Bm?!?

lol

lol because

stun has shaded me for doing the exact same thing (saying I'm suspicious of Dunn but also voting BM)


eagerly awaiting to see if stun will have a moment of clarity

Not the exact same thing. You are twisting it a little bit there. I have not advocated for your lynch/actively pushed evidence for others to vote you since I switched to voting BM, whereas in your case you were actively stuck on voting BM while pushing evidence to support a Dunnstral lynch, which is highly inconsistent and only can encourage what was already the biggest wagon that has formed this day phase. Thus, those are two entirely different scenarios. How, then, are they the exact same thing?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like, 637 suggests you would at least want to vote NM instead of your random vote.

But nope.

Are you paralyzed by doubt? Lazy? Scum? Who knows!

You *not* updating your vote is going to make sorting you much more difficult in later days.

doubt I guess. I want my vote to actually mean something. i'd rather everyone placed fully formed votes, rather than people who place 27 in a day. that isn't helpful either when trying to sort them. at least you know when I vote I mean it.

IMO, not all votes

should

mean you want that person lynched.

Why? There are a lot of reasons -- let me bullet point them for you.

• Votes can simply be for pressure purposes to see how others respond when their backs are against the wall. Their reactions, or even lack of one sometimes, can indicate whether they are pro-town or pro-scum, and hence reveal their alignment. Thus, by simply using your vote to pressure others, you can gather useful reactions for you to look back at later.

• Once some flips are obtained, you can look back and see who was defended against the pressure you applied after flips, who distracted away from it, or even took the pressure you applied and furthered it against somebody, using it as a reason for someone else to vote that person themselves. Sometimes, but not always, the ones that sheep you aren't really scumhunting, and are merely looking for shields.

• Also, you can look at if the person you voted for simply for pressure purposes tries to turn things around back on you in a scummy fashion. Like, are they taking things out of context in a way that scum might? This can be extremely valuable information as you are sorting players in the game.

• All this information becomes more and more useful as the game progresses. Sometimes, it is all we have to go off of as town. Thus, you want your intent here to look like you are sorting players so you don't become a distraction.

• Further, you show town that you are looking for scum if you are pressuring different wagons (with reason of course) and gauging reactions to them. This implies to other townplayers that you are town and they can eliminate from their scumpool. Provided you are town, you want to be careful to convey to town that you are not scum so you do not get mislynched, whether this day phase or a later one.

• I can tell you one thing from experience. By not being proactive on D1, in this sense you rob not only yourself as a townplayer from all the above opportunities that could help later on in the game, but you also rob the rest of town, which means I think it is not best townplay on D1.

Can you see my points here? Anything you disagree with or cannot understand?

--------------------------


I also agree with Mala that I also would not want you to skate through this game as scum behind what would be a lazy facade here for scum to implement. And I also used to be mislynched a lot D1, or at the very least was very much mislynch bait like Mala said she has been as town, but I have certainly become a more difficult D1 lynch as town over time.

[Green Crayons]

I have not advocated for your lynch/actively pushed evidence for others to vote you since I switched to voting BM, whereas in your case you were actively stuck on voting BM while pushing evidence to support a Dunnstral lynch, which is highly inconsistent and only can encourage what was already the biggest wagon that has formed this day phase. Thus, those are two entirely different scenarios. How, then, are they the exact same thing?

You suspect both BM and GC, and switched from voting GC to BM. You obviously still suspect GC. Mala finds that suspicious.

I suspect both Dunn and BM, and switched from voting Dunn to BM. I obviously still suspect Dunn. stun finds that suspicious.

ToWn CaN sUsPeCt MuLtIpLe PeOpLe At ThE sAmE tImE.

[Green Crayons]

All in all, I dont believe the votato interaction by stungun was done for what was claimed. I wouldnt be surprised if Dunnstral is scum and stungun picked to pressure other LHFesk players in a bid to protect Dunnstral.

I dont consider myself easily put off by effort posts, but this entire post was really difficult to get through and follow.

I think the upshot tho is what I just quoted. If so—doesn’t your entire stun-scum read boil down to an associative tell IF Dunn flips scum?

[stungun0404]

I have not advocated for your lynch/actively pushed evidence for others to vote you since I switched to voting BM, whereas in your case you were actively stuck on voting BM while pushing evidence to support a Dunnstral lynch, which is highly inconsistent and only can encourage what was already the biggest wagon that has formed this day phase. Thus, those are two entirely different scenarios. How, then, are they the exact same thing?

You suspect both BM and GC, and switched from voting GC to BM. You obviously still suspect GC. Mala finds that suspicious.

I suspect both Dunn and BM, and switched from voting Dunn to BM. I obviously still suspect Dunn. stun finds that suspicious.

ToWn CaN sUsPeCt MuLtIpLe PeOpLe At ThE sAmE tImE.

Yeah, I guess the only reason I suspected you in this case was because Dunnstral was the leading wagon, whereas in my case neither BM nor GC have been leading wagons this day phase.

But your point is fair enough.

[Not_Mafia]

I dont consider myself easily put off by effort posts, but this entire post was really difficult to get through and follow.

I didn't read it

[bob3141]

I hate to say it but I’m still ok with a Dunn lynch. As much as I didn’t like BM’s posts.. the SG flop is going to be a turn off right now in terms of voting there until I sort that out. Gera is off the table for today, but note I’m not sold on him being scum
Or town. He’s really null for me; the same with NM.

My gut feeling is that dun is town. As i just can't see scum blatantly making blank votes on a player claiming to scum read him and the other going wagon. It feels too blatant for scum. Would have thought that if he is scum then he would have tried dressing it up, instead he simply posts a series of quotes and doesn't say why they lead him to scum reading not mafia.

Would scum real vote for someone when their last comment on that player was that he had in fact had no read on them. If he was scum i would have expected something along the lines of something between a few short sentences to several paragraphs.

[bob3141]

I have not advocated for your lynch/actively pushed evidence for others to vote you since I switched to voting BM, whereas in your case you were actively stuck on voting BM while pushing evidence to support a Dunnstral lynch, which is highly inconsistent and only can encourage what was already the biggest wagon that has formed this day phase. Thus, those are two entirely different scenarios. How, then, are they the exact same thing?

You suspect both BM and GC, and switched from voting GC to BM. You obviously still suspect GC. Mala finds that suspicious.

I suspect both Dunn and BM, and switched from voting Dunn to BM. I obviously still suspect Dunn. stun finds that suspicious.

ToWn CaN sUsPeCt MuLtIpLe PeOpLe At ThE sAmE tImE.

Yeah, I guess the only reason I suspected you in this case was because Dunnstral was the leading wagon, whereas in my case neither BM nor GC have been leading wagons this day phase.

But your point is fair enough.

So why would you only suspect green due to dun being the leading wagon. I don't see why green actions regarding the dun wagon would really impact your desire to vote either way between them. As it's something that never really changed between your vote on green and your vote on BM.

So why in effect would you side with BM against green by voting green. If it was simply a matter of green finding a dun lynch acceptable. As for him to be scum at most half the dun wagon must at least be town. What made you think that green at the time was scum happy with both Bm and duns mislynch. Rather than green potential believing that both were good lynch candidates. As with something so little I would have expected you based on your claimed belief that there is one scum in green/BM. To first vote BM first but pressure green over his reasons.

[HK 50]

I'm sorry, but I'm not really motivated rn with this game (and I'm not white sure why). I'll try to self-motivated myself tonight.

[Green Crayons]

I dont consider myself easily put off by effort posts, but this entire post was really difficult to get through and follow.

I didn't read it

I’m shocked, just shocked to hear.

[Green Crayons]

It feels too blatant for scum.

Too scummy to be scum?

[notscience]

I feel like my read on NS should change......I know that sounds odd, but i just finished a game where a player says all the things that sound right but still that weird ringing sound is in the back of your head saying. NO DON'T BUY IT!!

I’m town as fuck farside

I’m sorry that’s the only thing I can say atm! I’ll weigh in soon

It’s been 24 hours since clidd said he’d give reads btw

[notscience]

Why did the robot stop being funny I miss funnybot? I think towns more likely to drop the shtick than scum tho

[notscience]

So far, I feel good in asserting these players as more likely town than not: Not Science, farside, Dr. Pepper, Mala
Gut is also leaning town with Bob.

That means I think in all likelihood all scum have to be in this group of 7 players {NM, geraintm, GC, HK, Dunnstral, votato, BM}

Catching up a bit more accurately and it’s weird the whole gang is in these town leans but idk if it’s gamblers fallacy or what

[stungun0404]

*Note to respond to Bob later, when I have more time.

In the meantime, something interesting has captured my attention...

@Clidd, once you catch up, how do you feel about the alignments of HK50 and Votato? And why?
@HK50, how do you feel about the alignments of Clidd and Votato? And why?
@Votato, how do you feel about the alignments of Clidd and HK50? And why?

I will explain why I am asking these questions later. Perhaps tomorrow?

[notscience]

why is notsci so town?

How you saw me is me having to herd the town my non vla play here is more accurate for how I’m normally I don’t normally have to take an assertive role Until I’m comfy

Although it was fun to be assertive like that maybe I should try it more. Maybe when I get back

Pedit

I’m assuming it’s because you think they’re all the team or something

[notscience]

I will say one thing I disagreed with and the tone of GC is normal for that type of player.

Pls clarify is this agreeing with my stance or disagreeing I’m confused what you’re trying to say

[notscience]

I get it, I do. I want to be better at day 1s, and pester me by all means on my thoughts, and i'll do my best to give them

Why should we have to pester you if you want to improve your day one reads as town you should actively be doing it and not needing pestering but it makes sense if you’re scum and only want to do things to look better

[notscience]

I don't have this same level of confidence going for other available lynches, like Dunn for example. That said, Dunn could very well be scum, but since he's posted such little content I have found him to be a frustratingly tough player to sort.

He’s had more stances than not mafia, do you have a read on the latter

[notscience]

I’m caught up

Stun gun is very wordy and I think it’s weird he asked the robot to be less though but I’m not sure it’s AI or not but man that guy can type some long posts

Mala why is my read progression re you town if you said yourself you expected to be tunneled all game