Newbie 647 - Over!!!

[Lord Gurgi]

Lord Gurgi, would you mind explaining how I'm hopping my vote around? I've only voted twice, once for Malyss and the other for you. Does that mean that I can't look at anyone else? Your vote for Malyss has a very scummy feel to me. I just don't see someone who has experience playing like you and being town. You seem to be holding back on us, except when pressured.

I should have specified, you are suspecting everyone. First Alurin, then SAO, then Malyss became #1 out of the woodwork, then me for lurking when OGML is worse, then Kairio for some reason.

Question for you Vir: Why don't you find OGML, Katie, or Mini-Kold suspicious, as they are the only people you haven't been suspicious of when they are all lurking?

Statement for you Vir: I am participating, more so than multiple players, why then is your vote on me for lurking?

[Crub]

Sixth Vote Count of Day 1

Malyss (2):

Lord Gurgi, Kairio

SecretAgentOrange (1):

OhGodMyLife

MiniKold (1):

Jahudo

Jahudo (1):

MiniKold

Lord Gurgi (1):

Vir4030

Not Voting (3):

SecretAgentOrange, Malyss, Brandi

Prodding: MiniKold

Deadline approaching if posting doesn't increase

Brandi Replaces Katie immediately!

[Brandi]

Hey guys! Will be posting content soon

[Lord Gurgi]

Hey guys! Will be posting content soon

ZOMG BRANDI. How many women do we have in this game?

[Brandi]

My notes so far:

PG 1:

Not very informative.
most notable - Vir4030 (null tell)

PG 2:

Unvote Katie; Vote: OGML
IC's shouldn't be lurking, and with so little to go on at this point in the game, I don't think there's a better place I could put my vote right now.

This reasoning isn't really substantial enough to warrant a second vote. So he's an IC and he's lurking. So what? This is just as baseless as a random vote. I agree when OGML states that:

Going "what he said!" and dropping a vote, on the other hand, is scummy.

SAO goes on in her next post being way too defensive over the matter and goes on to say that the purpose of her vote was to get OGML to talk.

PG3:

OGML is happy with his vote, SAO continues to be over defensive. Completely out of character from how I percieved her on page one.

Also, OGML hasn't been lurking at all, I was just hoping to catch someone for being overeager.

Its rarely ever good for townies to lie. =P

How can we know you weren't SCUM trying to pull newbie townies in to make themselves the center of lynchattention?

FOS: Lord Gurgi

unvote, vote Avangor

Lynch the silent ones.

Bad play. Let the mod take care of that. Silent is not ALWAYS = Scum.

I really don't think a scum player would do a gambit like he did.

Scum can use gambits.

PG4:

Malyss inquires as to why Vir4030 still has his vote on her. I think inquiring such is a bit of an insecure motive. Malyss had absolutely nothing to worry about. I think that there really doesn't need to be a reason for him not unvoting in this situation because it just wasn't neccessary yet. If perhaps Malyss had a bandwagon going on her after the random voting stage then it would be appropriate for Vir to at least speak up again about his stance on Malyss if not just unvote all together to prevent a quicklynch.

OMGUS is a scummy move.

Not so much in the random voting stage.

I think an OMGUS vote is scummy when it's the random voting stage and that player already has two votes on him.

Perhaps. It might just be anti-town.

Not lurking Vir, thinking. At this point this back and forth has cleared SAO in my eyes. Unvote. I am a little concerned that Malyss is defending herself in so much of her posts, rather than scum hunting.

...

I guess this makes me fall to my second suspect. Vote: Malyss.

Lord Gurgi practically votes Malyss for the same reasonings he had against SOA earlier though SOA is pretty much cleared in his book.

PG5

Jahudo hops in and gives his opinions. Doesn't seem to strongly suspect anyone at all. OGML gets a mudslide from Malyss. Thats it for this page.

PG6

Question for you Vir: Why don't you find OGML, Katie, or Mini-Kold suspicious, as they are the only people you haven't been suspicious of when they are all lurking?

False Delima for the most part. Lurking != Inactive. You are posting content. It is easy to pull scum tells from content, its harder to pull scum tells from absolutely nothing.

This is it for now, I will do more individual reads later.

Hey Lord Gurgi. ^___^ Sorry to say, I think you are scum.

Vote: Lord Gurgi

[Lord Gurgi]

My notes so far:

PG 1:

Not very informative.
most notable - Vir4030 (null tell)

PG 2:

Unvote Katie; Vote: OGML
IC's shouldn't be lurking, and with so little to go on at this point in the game, I don't think there's a better place I could put my vote right now.

This reasoning isn't really substantial enough to warrant a second vote. So he's an IC and he's lurking. So what? This is just as baseless as a random vote. I agree when OGML states that:

Going "what he said!" and dropping a vote, on the other hand, is scummy.

SAO goes on in her next post being way too defensive over the matter and goes on to say that the purpose of her vote was to get OGML to talk.

PG3:

OGML is happy with his vote, SAO continues to be over defensive. Completely out of character from how I percieved her on page one.

Also, OGML hasn't been lurking at all, I was just hoping to catch someone for being overeager.

Its rarely ever good for townies to lie. =P

How can we know you weren't SCUM trying to pull newbie townies in to make themselves the center of lynchattention?

FOS: Lord Gurgi

unvote, vote Avangor

Lynch the silent ones.

Bad play. Let the mod take care of that. Silent is not ALWAYS = Scum.

I really don't think a scum player would do a gambit like he did.

Scum can use gambits.

PG4:

Malyss inquires as to why Vir4030 still has his vote on her. I think inquiring such is a bit of an insecure motive. Malyss had absolutely nothing to worry about. I think that there really doesn't need to be a reason for him not unvoting in this situation because it just wasn't neccessary yet. If perhaps Malyss had a bandwagon going on her after the random voting stage then it would be appropriate for Vir to at least speak up again about his stance on Malyss if not just unvote all together to prevent a quicklynch.

OMGUS is a scummy move.

Not so much in the random voting stage.

I think an OMGUS vote is scummy when it's the random voting stage and that player already has two votes on him.

Perhaps. It might just be anti-town.

Not lurking Vir, thinking. At this point this back and forth has cleared SAO in my eyes. Unvote. I am a little concerned that Malyss is defending herself in so much of her posts, rather than scum hunting.

...

I guess this makes me fall to my second suspect. Vote: Malyss.

Lord Gurgi practically votes Malyss for the same reasonings he had against SOA earlier though SOA is pretty much cleared in his book.

PG5

Jahudo hops in and gives his opinions. Doesn't seem to strongly suspect anyone at all. OGML gets a mudslide from Malyss. Thats it for this page.

PG6

Question for you Vir: Why don't you find OGML, Katie, or Mini-Kold suspicious, as they are the only people you haven't been suspicious of when they are all lurking?

False Delima for the most part. Lurking != Inactive. You are posting content. It is easy to pull scum tells from content, its harder to pull scum tells from absolutely nothing.

This is it for now, I will do more individual reads later.

Hey Lord Gurgi. ^___^ Sorry to say, I think you are scum.

Vote: Lord Gurgi

Sadness. My point about the lurking is that these people aren't resurfacing, for whatever reason they lose interest. Also, don't cut off my questions before they can be answered, I was trying to prove something from his response, and it's pointless now.

If he says what you did so help me I am going to murder a small rabbit, and it will be all your fault.

To address the OGML deal, that was to start discussion, because we were stalling out if you look at the time stamps. Everyone was sitting there smiling at each other and it was something to get the town moving, and it worked.

Question for you, do you agree or disagree with Vir's accusation of me about lurking? Given what you have said up there.

[Brandi]

You quoted my entire post and responded right after my entire post? ._. was that needed, I have trouble answering questions if they are not targeted at very specific things. <_<

[Brandi]

by targeted I mean individually quoted.

[Brandi]

Question for you, do you agree or disagree with Vir's accusation of me about lurking? Given what you have said up there.

I was going to address it until I notice that you did. I agree with what you stated on page 4 in regards to this. Vis brings up many logical fallacies but I believe that for the most part it is merely due to his newness.

Sorry for the triple posting.

[Brandi]

Well, this is all messy, but here is another post. I guess my first post. I was just taken aback by how odd it was that you quoted my entire post. Like. Ah. Its not that big of a deal though.

To address the OGML deal, that was to start discussion, because we were stalling out if you look at the time stamps. Everyone was sitting there smiling at each other and it was something to get the town moving, and it worked.

Ever hear of "Lynch all Liars" ? Just because SOMETHING had to be done, as you say, doesn't mean that LYING was the correct, TOWNIE way to go about things. Its true, you COULD be a townie making false accusations to try and real in some easy scum,

OR

you could have been SCUM trying to real in some easy LYNCH BAIT. OBV WIFOM, I know.

Anyway, Lies do not help the town. If you ARE town and you in fact were lying to try and real in scum, you very well could have been the cause of getting an over sensitive, newbie townie lynched. It happens enough without the help of LIES.

BTW, everyone always claims that it was "to start discussion." You have to give me better than that for a valid excuse.

[Vir4030]

Question for you Vir: Why don't you find OGML, Katie, or Mini-Kold suspicious, as they are the only people you haven't been suspicious of when they are all lurking?

Statement for you Vir: I am participating, more so than multiple players, why then is your vote on me for lurking?

Katie and Mini-Kold have been idle most of the game. I tried to engage Katie earlier and she just went idle. Mini-Kold was the same. It's hard to gauge anything from that. OGML I am trying to engage, but all I am seeing is null posts. It's a bit different response than I'm getting from you, which is "I'm not lurking, I'm thinking."

Town doesn't need to think so much.

[Malyss]

Things have been busy, but I am back from the beach. I've read the posts that have accumulated since I stepped away from my computer and am looking forward to getting back into the game.

I hope to have something of substance written by tomorrow afternoon.

[Brandi]

*waves at Vir* I am the new Katie. Odd how both our user names are normal female names. I know Brandi is my actual name, not sure for Katie. Too bad she spent her first game being ridiculously unhelpful and inactive.

*pokes OGML* I know you are having a lot of fun and such, but spare a moment for us, maybe? =( I guess it is only page 6 and you were a bit active in the beginning, but we need your IC INSIGHT.

*pokes Malyss harder* You are with OGML yet you are doing a better job than him postwise. You should hint at him that he has some game(s) he might need to devote an hour of his time to.

[Jahudo]

Yah activity!

I think that replacing Katie and Avangor's (and Alurin I hope) have created null tells for their replacements, and if MiniKold is also replaced then nothing will carry over to the next person. I agree that it is too hard to judge inactivity.

As far as lurking, there should be vaid concern on OGML even if we believe his RL reasons and he has a witness from last weekend.
OGML's past three posts have been filler to tell us he will get to this game eventually. I think his participation can be better and I think he knows that and will resolve these issues. But I'm not going to assume that even an IC is above trying to avoid discussion on purpose.

As far as lying, I guess we shouldn't assume an IC is above it to convince the group when there is only one set of answers and in reality thinks/knows there are more. But in both Gurgi's quotes I don't think he was saying those things to get support from others but to get a response from his target: there's a difference.

Vote: OGML You're an IC, don't lurk. I would expect you to know better which makes me think it might be conscious.

He says "don't lurk" but "it might be conscious" which I take to mean that he opens the possibility but does not close the unconscious possibility. The vote did not pressure anyone other than OGML to act in response and it did not limit OGML with only one possibility.

Question for you Vir: Why don't you find OGML, Katie, or Mini-Kold suspicious, as they are the only people you haven't been suspicious of when they are all lurking?

It is commonly accepted that those three people were not participating like the rest of the group and Vir had brought that point up as well. I don't see where he limits Vir's answers because Vir can answer that they are not lurking or that their case is different from his own targets.

So yeah, I'm leaning towards a town Gurgi. I have more of a gut suspicion of Vir but no questions at the moment, and a small suspicion of Kairio who has yet to answer my questions. Everybody else: more or less neutral.

*gives OGML a hangover cure*

[Brandi]

he was saying those things to get support from others but to get a response from his target: there's a difference.

I suppose you meant to include a *not* in the first part of the sentence? Firstly neither of those motives are in any way mutually exclusive. You can easily accomplish both with all sorts of tactics.
Secondly, he already made it clear that his motives for lying were not solely to garner a reaction from OGML.

He says "don't lurk" but "it might be conscious" which I take to mean that he opens the possibility but does not close the unconscious possibility. The vote did not pressure anyone other than OGML to act in response and it did not limit OGML with only one possibility.

You are using irrelevant factors to defend his OBV intent for deception. If he were taking in the unconscious possibility he may have left off with a FOS, or perhaps a question instead of a vote. He was not randomly voting him, he was voting him for a REASON. Therefore if he had a reason to vote for him, he MUST be suspicious of him. But seeing as how he claims to have said that just to see who would follow along, he was never actually SUSPICIOUS IN THE FIRST PLACE. What kind of helpful reaction do you suppose you could gain from expressing a false suspicion? If I were accused of lurking when I was not, I would state that I in fact was not lurking, and that said accuser must have been mistaken. But after the suspicion has been expressed, how is anyone certain anyone would believe me that I was in fact, not actually lurking? A bandwagon could be formed and I could be, in an extreme case, lynched for something I was falsely accused of. OGML did not do this, but it would not have mattered what his reaction was because he was never being legitimately accused in the first place.

A GOOD way to find scum through accusations is to use things that are TRUE to accuse someone. Some people will flip out if you point out even their least scummy of flaws.

A BAD way to 'find scum' is through deception. It causes the innocent to have negative attention drawn towards them.

Happy with my vote.

[Lord Gurgi]

Hi BM - I mean Brandi.

It would seem that we're too docile, speaking of which, anyone want an apple-cinnamon muffin?

Well when I think about it I've found a good place for my vote.

Unvote; Vote: OGML

You're an IC, don't lurk. I would expect you to know better which makes me think it might be conscious.

BrandiM, please find for me where I tell everyone to vote for OGML.

The mod was threatening a mass prod on day

2

.

Town doesn't need to think so much.

[Brandi]

When did I say you outright told anyone to vote for OGML? I'm just calling it how I see it. Day 2 IRL, right? not in 'mafia days' ? The mod may be over-worrying but it does seem like the people who were replaced were given enough time to say something. The mod wants us to talk, he hasn't ordered "VOTE FOR PEOPLE OR ILL REPLACE YOU." Why use my initials? OR are you comparing me to someone else whose initials are 'BM' ? <_< I'm confused..

@Town: Do you think its a good thing for townies to lie? Do you think it makes it harder or easier to find scum?

My opinion on the matter should be obvious.

[Lord Gurgi]

That should read Page 2, not day 2 >.<

Your last name starts with M? Seriously? I was just pointing out that it's Battle Mage's schtick to quadruple post.

Brandi, do you never lay traps for foolish scum to fall into?

[Jahudo]

I can see you line of thinking, and although I still have a different interpretation I'm not 100% sure on Gurgi right now so I won't defend him.

If I were accused of lurking when I was not, I would state that I in fact was not lurking, and that said accuser must have been mistaken. But after the suspicion has been expressed, how is anyone certain anyone would believe me that I was in fact, not actually lurking?

How true this sounds. But both scum and townie can create accusations on innocents that stick with them throughout the game. It's not the more efficient way of scumhunting but I don't see how you can find and kill scum without risking both yourself and others in the process.

[Brandi]

Yes, yes it does. Brandi McCauslin. ;P Lord Gurgi, I can't really answer your question, Not sure if you know, but I'm pretty new. The only game I've completed was ended due to a big mod error though I technically won for finding the scum in it. Didn't know how to think of any sorts of traps in my first game. (If you can call it that...) The game I replaced into before this one, I haven't finished yet. One game hasn't started yet. Can't really talk about ongoing games, so yah, sorry.

risking both yourself and others in the process.

Agree and disagree. There are times when you risk yourself and there are times where you try really hard not to. (If you are a power role, for instance.) Risking others isn't a good idea. Mislynching is never a good thing, but it happens. However not really caring if you kill a townie/cop/doc or not isn't very pro-town. I'd rather be certain someone is scum and drive them to a lynch and them turn up town then not really care whether they are scum or not and lynch them just because I think it might be possible to bring up scum because of it.

[Lord Gurgi]

I can see you line of thinking, and although I still have a different interpretation I'm not 100% sure on Gurgi right now so I won't defend him.

IC Note: I hope you never are. It is generally bad procedure to defend someone else, even at the point of them being confirmed to your knowledge, always be aware that nothing in this game sure.

[Brandi]

nothing in this game sure.

Unless you're dead. ;o I read what Jahudo wrote incorrectly at first, I thought I said "I'm am 100% sure on Lord Gurgi" I was gonna say, ONLY SCUM are 100% of who is NOT SCUM. =P

[Lord Gurgi]

nothing in this game sure.

Unless you're dead. ;o I read what Jahudo wrote incorrectly at first, I thought I said "I'm am 100% sure on Lord Gurgi" I was gonna say, ONLY SCUM are 100% of who is NOT SCUM. =P

Only in open or semi-open games.

[Malyss]

SAO has been very active and that is super. She’s come across as really trying to move the town forward and to get players to post insightful scumhunting posts. She has done some analysis of me and a few others. SAO definitely has a forcefulness about her, which is exhibited by her use of her vote as a way of attempting to motivate less active players to become more active. While, it helped to prompt two responses out of OGML before he went quiet for about six days, the knee on the throat to Minikold to coax him into getting into the scumhunting didn’t really work.

Though, it seems questionable just how much help Minikold ever intended to give the game. He came in immediately after Crub announced the replacement and posted that the previous player in his spot had already voted and so, he now had nothing to do for a bit. After I questioned him in post 83 about his having nothing to do, he responded with an OMGUS to Alurin (now Jahudo). After that, we never heard from Minikold again when it would have been helpful, as others pointed out, for Minikold to offer his analysis on what had happened thus far in the game.

Avangor, the previous incarnation of Minikold, never offered much other than a OMGUS to Katie, an announcement that this was her 5th game including ones that are currently occurring and a defense of his OMGUS vote.

Malyss, my move would seem scummy, but being as it IS the first day, and no one really has ANY idea of what people are, scum or town. If my hardly reasoned vote would have been on day 3 or 4, then that might be a better judgement.

Given the general setup of most newbie games, I think that I’m willing to bet that two players have a pretty good idea of who the scum and townies are.

Should a replacement for Minikold/Avangor be made, I have my doubts that the player will be able to salvage the player spot. Based on what Avangor and Minikold have brought to the player slot, I feel suspicious of this slot and am casting a FOS in its direction. I am just not sure that I would be comfortable placing a vote on an inactive slot at the moment.

Things seemed optimistic when Minikold came in right after the mod's announcement and even though his first post was a bit of a let down, he at least was inclined to respond to a couple of posts. Still, the lack of participation from those who have held this spot...just doesn't leave a good feeling. It just seems that maybe if this slot was a pro-town slot, then the players would have been more active in helping the rest of the town ferret out the scum?

Meanwhile, welcome to Jahudo and Brandi and thanks for being so active thus far. I look forward to rereading their posts a few more times before getting into an analysis on them.

[Brandi]

Moar Participation plz? OGML I was looking forward to seeing stuff from you! =(