Silent Star 1: Lunacy

[Nahdia]

Like right here, she says that Dunn could have been trying to move us out of RVS, but he also could have been faking it.

it is towny behaviour that is not impossible to fake. i was trying to focus more on the behaviours and less on the motivations of said behaviours due to a discussion in a recent game in which i learned speculative vs factual that contained this post:

The points on porken are speculative because they are prescribing scum motivation to a town behavior (posting content is a town behavior regardless of alignment). However, his motivation could just as easily be a town one.

but that is not something that comes entirely naturally to me. it was overall a townread of dunnstral.

[Raven Branwen]

@Beeboy, why am I in your PoE? The other day you said something along the lines of that I’m claiming something that doesn’t exist: LHFs. Why? What game have you been in/ spectated where they didn’t exist?

I scum read Nahdia, Votato/Starbuck, Drusilla to varying degrees.
I town read the 5 listed, the rest is people I am trying to sort. I can't just call everyone who puts effort into this game town I don't think I am going to solve the game doing that >_____>

I said this game doesn't have LHFs, at least compared to a typical player list, I think everyone in this game is capable of defending themselves. The 2 new players Tux and Midway are probably among the better 2020 users on the site. Tux can defend his stances even if you think those stances are easily attack-able and Midway pulled some crazy WIM in the last game I played with him. I stand by this statement I think this is a relatively strong player list.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that then. I don’t think there has ever been/will be a mafia game in existence - unless it were to ever turn pro - where LHFs weren’t in the playerlist.

I did sr - hard - votato but what didn’t you like about Star’s catchup?

[beeboy]

Nothing otherwise I would be voting her right now given my strong read on Votato.

Starbuck is fine so I will continue to let her play out the game for the foreseeable future. I just also believe catch ups are relatively easy to fake as scum so she isn't even into the real 'sauce' yet.

[Starbuck]

Read through Page 28 to Page 36.

Lilith recaps her stance on Raven at the top of Page 29. I'm still not seeing what she sees here, as it all feels really superficial.

I'm positive there's scum on my wagon. I can't understand anyone who's seriously scumreading me - if you think I am capable of creating this much content with so many different underlying threads going on when I'm scum, then I'm actually super flattered you think I'm that good, but I feel like I'm the most obvtown slot in this game.

I don't like this WIFOM at all. I've seen plenty of scum hide behind valid content. This shouldn't even be a thing. skitter's later agreement (as the 2nd highest producer of content in this thread) of this post is concerning.


Also, if I take a drink for every time someone says "low hanging fruit," I'll be drunk for days. I think we've gotten the point there.


I appreciate skitter's 711 - 714. I needed that laid out for me. I still don't agree on the Raven read, but I can see the partner-y point on Nahdia.


Dunn's jump onto midway at the bottom of Page 29 just proves how much he's skimming/not paying attention.

I'm closing in on 150 posts and no one has complained about that yet; I made probably 30 posts very close together at one point while catching up, and again, no one has complained.. I feel like this is a bit of a flimsy excuse. I want you to post your thoughts because otherwise how are people supposed to read you?

I wouldn't brag about this and I know it's not just you because I've seen it from others, too. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I feel really bad for anyone else who might need to replace in after me because this catch up has been a slog. There's no reason to have 11 or 12 posts back to back from the same person when you can just hit Q+ at the top corner of the post and do a condensed version with your thoughts. You can even highlight certain sentences in a post and reply to those sentences/questions specifically instead of quoting the whole thing. I'm not being sassy here, really. I want to not wade through pages of the same people just continually responding.

On the other side, there's much to be said about constantly needing to be in the spotlight. I'm not sure if that's NAI or not, but it doesn't necessarily make room for those who want to contribute and will be drowned out.

Also until recently I had this sense that you were constantly in "catch-up mode" and not really creating your own content/pushing interactions. It's better now but I also feel like that's at least partly because I started pushing you and you started receiving pressure

This patting on the back feels weird to me.

Just because someone defends another person doesn't mean they are both scum together.

+1

The more midway just throws shade around instead of doing much solving in his posts the more I feel comfortable with my vote on him.

He kinda did the same thing in Weakest Link and turned out to be town. I might reevaluate that if I were you.

I am going to be honest here, this game is a solid balance between being very content dense and me not actually being able to get any solid reads. I am not sure if that says more about the game or me as a player.

I couldn't agree more. I've been delving through these pages so hard, and staying up late tonight to finish, that I think my eyes are crossed currently and I'm still not sure on reads for like 3/4 of everyone. Also, the constant references to meta and outside the game stuff isn't helping my concentration.


Loving what I've skimmed of MT's 871. Going to go back and read it in full a bit later, though. Definite town feels there.



I'm passing out. Rest in the morning. Please don't add like 10 pages.

[beeboy]

talk to me about drusilla. 818

I am going to be real that post is the definition of a dense post I am too stupid to be able to read.

They reference a conversation they have in another game but i don't think they are overly applying that comment to how they solve the game it's kind of just there to back something up? Which drags it way back into the realm of being highly fakable to me. Also as scum if you have decided you want to apply that to your game play it would be easy to fake.

Idk it's not the same as a meta conclusion or some sort of other conclusion from another game. It's just a mantra on how to play mafia, that's a lot of scums bread and butter talking about how to play the game because of how easy it is, not like what you think is good play changes or is game specific. So like it's not scummy but its also like.... super easy???

If your asking about the questioning to kanna or something else then I am blank because I just see a standard sequence.

[beeboy]

I agree with Starbucks this content density would be a lot easier to manage if the response to a lot of reads wasn't. "I GOT MY META AND MY META TELLS ME YOU ARE WRONG"
When a lot of that time that meta isn't even explained. It's making this game needlessly hard to solve because it cuts a lot of engagements short.

[Nahdia]

im sobering up. my power wanes.

i was mostly referring to that first thing. it reminded me of how you read clover, so i was curious if you had thoughts on it, but i can see the line you're drawing between them. it's fakable, but it struck me as something scum would just be less likely to think to fake, you know?

[Nahdia]

frankly, i'm not sure i like hearing "fakable" in response to stuf like that! sure, virtually everything is fakeable. but it can still be more likely to come from town than scum for xyz reasons. it just feels like a catchall way to dismiss reasons to townread people so options stay open.

[Nahdia]

idk. town can also be dismissive of that stuff. i just think more stock should go into that sort of tell.

[beeboy]

I might have a bias, a lot of things I do in a game of mafia are dictated before I receive a role pm? I buffer my scum game a bit slightly to avoid a level of panic since I already know what I am going to do.
Certain gimics, my opening post in the weakest link game I literally got town read for. I read the setup and planned that post before I got my role pm. I wouldn't think about faking a paint diagram planning alongside my scum team, but it was something I felt like doing anyway?

So tells like that I am more willing to just write off especially when my definitive answer is, to some degree I agree with you but I don't think it's enough to outweigh what I believe makes her scum. That's my more serious answer then "scum can fake that".

If I was sitting here null reading Drusilla killing them for POE, I'd agree that me dismissing your argument would be shitty but I do have reasons to scum read Drusilla that I believe are stronger then that point in support of them.

[beeboy]

I can keep talking if you'd like later but I want to avoid clogging up more pages going back and forth between the 2 of us.
A) So I can sleep and B) To avoid creating 4 more pages.

Gnight thread o/

[Starbuck]

In post 241, Tuxedo Mask wrote:
Beeboy makes an entrance on page 2, but says nothing. Doesn't even RVS vote.

Do you think everyone is required to RVS vote?

No one is required to do anything. It was a part of a greater point about Beeboy non-posting till page 4, an RVS vote would have been acceptable content for page 2. Yet they said hi and then left, then returned to repost their intro. It was weird to me then, and is still a bit weird now in my opinion.

That's rich coming from someone who didn't post until Page 7 and nearly 8 hours after the thread opened. As the game opened in the morning on a Tuesday, folks were probably on their way or already at work. I try to consider those real-life commitments when folks pop in and leave like he did. It's just completely NAI.

I also find it hard to believe that you didn't even consider time stamps. There's just over an hour from the first post in the game until beeboy's first post. For me, we're still in RVS when we're only an hour into a week-ish long Day 1, whether we're on Page 2 or Page 4 in the first hour of the game.

So no, I think your weird feeling comes from the fact that you tried to set him up and failed because you know that you didn't assess the situation optimally.

Sorry, wait, what's your point here?

What I'm saying is if on page 2 Beeboy posted saying hi, and on page 3 posted again complaining no one said hi back it means they are there watching the game unfold but refusing to participate. Page 4 is when they start posting content. What does any of that have to do with day length, time stamps, or me not posting till page 7?

That there was an hour between when the thread opened and when he posted. You can't really go by pages at that point because they were already moving quickly and the game was ONLY AN HOUR OLD. The fact that you still feel "weird" about his entrance, now, just shows that you're trying to hold onto that to possibly push it later when it was a ridiculous case to even start.

Not taking time stamps into consideration is lack of attention detail and can definitely come from someone who wanted to throw shade real quick and earn some town cred as he entered the game nearly 8 hours after it began. beeboy was just your easy target. He may have come in on Page 4, but he still entered an hour after the thread opened which is fair amount of time to still post a hi, an RVS vote, or whatever.

I think lilith was right to call you out in 402 for trying to derail the conversation that was happening. I'm not sure if I agree with her idea of your motive, but I think you had a motive then and you still have one now or you wouldn't be hanging onto it being "weird."

[Starbuck]

Does anyone else think that the Nahdia wagon is gaining traction relatively fast or is it just me?

I'm feeling it, too, but we are getting close to deadline.

Starbuck is fine so I will continue to let her play out the game for the foreseeable future. I just also believe catch ups are relatively easy to fake as scum so she isn't even into the real 'sauce' yet

I have asked questions and such along the way, but other than Tux, recently, no one has really responded or tried to interact. So that isn't really helpful.

[Menalque]

¶

Votecount 1.17

[4] Nahdia:

skitter, Morning Tweet, beeboy, Tuxedo Mask

[3] skitter30:

Kanna, Nahdia, Raven Branwen

[2] midwaybear:

Dunnstral, Clover Ebi

[1] Dunnstral:

midwaybear

[3] Not Voting:

drusilla, Starbuck, lilith2013

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to throw someone down the well.
The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-07-10 09:18:09).
V/LA section. Joined mod iso.

[Starbuck]

So I think I've seen the points on Nahdia, but if anyone on that wagon wants to condense some of that case. I'd be grateful.

Kanna and Raven, can you condense the skitter case for me?

[Nahdia]

hangover wisdom:

perhaps if i feel the need to get drunk in order to have the spoons to play mafia, mafia isn't a good game for me to play?

...

i have looked again at midwaybear's ISO, in search of a counterwagon because i do not want to be lynched and maybe skitter isn't happening? there are parts of it i really dont like, but there is also content i look at and think "yes, i agree". but i suppose agreement a townread does not make. or, should not anyway. not alone?

similar to how i am reading skitter as making a bit of a leap in her push on me, i think midway's entrance has some of that "aura of scum mindset". he accuses dunnstral of attempting to be super scummy as wifom. why as town would you not just think... he's scummy because x, and is therefore scum? or why not think perhaps he IS too scummy to be scum, and is therefore town? he continues down this path many steps, not keeping his read too surface level, but instead overcomplicating it.

guys I have basically no reads
this is not good

this still heavily pings me. couple with a lot of "i dont get _______" posts. it's sort of similar to what some reactions to raven's "i dont get nahdia" but i think the clear difference there is that raven stayed consistent on what she wasn't understanding and it looked more like attempting to sort rather than just excusing herself from forming reads. midway on the other hand is the opposite. he comments on plenty of stuff, but doesn't get most of it and has no real stance.

---

i have also looked at drusilla again, as requested, but i am unconvinced. i would vote there if need be, but it is not my top choice. beeboy you make the point that i should be looking at her partner reads similarly to how i read skitter. but idk, i feel they are different. i disagree with how drusilla is reading the game, but i

can

follow the logic step by step to meet her. so the things that give me pause, even if they could be faked, actually do outweigh other concerns?

[Tuxedo Mask]

In post 241, Tuxedo Mask wrote:
Beeboy makes an entrance on page 2, but says nothing. Doesn't even RVS vote.

Do you think everyone is required to RVS vote?

No one is required to do anything. It was a part of a greater point about Beeboy non-posting till page 4, an RVS vote would have been acceptable content for page 2. Yet they said hi and then left, then returned to repost their intro. It was weird to me then, and is still a bit weird now in my opinion.

That's rich coming from someone who didn't post until Page 7 and nearly 8 hours after the thread opened. As the game opened in the morning on a Tuesday, folks were probably on their way or already at work. I try to consider those real-life commitments when folks pop in and leave like he did. It's just completely NAI.

I also find it hard to believe that you didn't even consider time stamps. There's just over an hour from the first post in the game until beeboy's first post. For me, we're still in RVS when we're only an hour into a week-ish long Day 1, whether we're on Page 2 or Page 4 in the first hour of the game.

So no, I think your weird feeling comes from the fact that you tried to set him up and failed because you know that you didn't assess the situation optimally.

Sorry, wait, what's your point here?

What I'm saying is if on page 2 Beeboy posted saying hi, and on page 3 posted again complaining no one said hi back it means they are there watching the game unfold but refusing to participate. Page 4 is when they start posting content. What does any of that have to do with day length, time stamps, or me not posting till page 7?

That there was an hour between when the thread opened and when he posted. You can't really go by pages at that point because they were already moving quickly and the game was ONLY AN HOUR OLD. The fact that you still feel "weird" about his entrance, now, just shows that you're trying to hold onto that to possibly push it later when it was a ridiculous case to even start.

Not taking time stamps into consideration is lack of attention detail and can definitely come from someone who wanted to throw shade real quick and earn some town cred as he entered the game nearly 8 hours after it began. beeboy was just your easy target. He may have come in on Page 4, but he still entered an hour after the thread opened which is fair amount of time to still post a hi, an RVS vote, or whatever.

I think lilith was right to call you out in 402 for trying to derail the conversation that was happening. I'm not sure if I agree with her idea of your motive, but I think you had a motive then and you still have one now or you wouldn't be hanging onto it being "weird."

Why does it matter how old the game was? That is completely unrelated to the point I was making. What I'm saying is that by the time Beeboy first posted a wagon on Dunnstral was already going. Beeboy does not comment, just says hi. Then a page later he complains no one said hi back. That means Beeboy is watching the conversation in-game unfold, and is reading close enough to know no one said hi but still doesn't comment on what is happening in the game. What the intention behind that is up for interpretation, but what happened is just an objective reading of the game. I don't see how those actions are relevant to the game being 1 hour old, or me not posting till it was 8 hours old.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Tux, do you have independent reasons for thinking Nahdia is scummy?

Not really, I just don't see anything from them that tells me they're town. I agree mostly with their interaction with Raven being weird, also I don't see any reason to doubt Skitter's meta read.

[Nahdia]

read me, coward.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Beeboy you mentioned you prewrite your entry. I wish that was something you mentioned earlier. What parts of this game were preplanned from you?

[Nahdia]

i have plenty of content!! if you think im scum, come at me. get your hands dirty. sheeping a meta read i have refuted is COWARDLY. skitter has reasons for calling me scum beyond the meta.

[Nahdia]

cowardly and not to mention, Bad!

[Starbuck]

In post 241, Tuxedo Mask wrote:
Beeboy makes an entrance on page 2, but says nothing. Doesn't even RVS vote.

Do you think everyone is required to RVS vote?

No one is required to do anything. It was a part of a greater point about Beeboy non-posting till page 4, an RVS vote would have been acceptable content for page 2. Yet they said hi and then left, then returned to repost their intro. It was weird to me then, and is still a bit weird now in my opinion.

That's rich coming from someone who didn't post until Page 7 and nearly 8 hours after the thread opened. As the game opened in the morning on a Tuesday, folks were probably on their way or already at work. I try to consider those real-life commitments when folks pop in and leave like he did. It's just completely NAI.

I also find it hard to believe that you didn't even consider time stamps. There's just over an hour from the first post in the game until beeboy's first post. For me, we're still in RVS when we're only an hour into a week-ish long Day 1, whether we're on Page 2 or Page 4 in the first hour of the game.

So no, I think your weird feeling comes from the fact that you tried to set him up and failed because you know that you didn't assess the situation optimally.

Sorry, wait, what's your point here?

What I'm saying is if on page 2 Beeboy posted saying hi, and on page 3 posted again complaining no one said hi back it means they are there watching the game unfold but refusing to participate. Page 4 is when they start posting content. What does any of that have to do with day length, time stamps, or me not posting till page 7?

That there was an hour between when the thread opened and when he posted. You can't really go by pages at that point because they were already moving quickly and the game was ONLY AN HOUR OLD. The fact that you still feel "weird" about his entrance, now, just shows that you're trying to hold onto that to possibly push it later when it was a ridiculous case to even start.

Not taking time stamps into consideration is lack of attention detail and can definitely come from someone who wanted to throw shade real quick and earn some town cred as he entered the game nearly 8 hours after it began. beeboy was just your easy target. He may have come in on Page 4, but he still entered an hour after the thread opened which is fair amount of time to still post a hi, an RVS vote, or whatever.

I think lilith was right to call you out in 402 for trying to derail the conversation that was happening. I'm not sure if I agree with her idea of your motive, but I think you had a motive then and you still have one now or you wouldn't be hanging onto it being "weird."

Why does it matter how old the game was? That is completely unrelated to the point I was making. What I'm saying is that by the time Beeboy first posted a wagon on Dunnstral was already going. Beeboy does not comment, just says hi. Then a page later he complains no one said hi back. That means Beeboy is watching the conversation in-game unfold, and is reading close enough to know no one said hi but still doesn't comment on what is happening in the game. What the intention behind that is up for interpretation, but what happened is just an objective reading of the game. I don't see how those actions are relevant to the game being 1 hour old, or me not posting till it was 8 hours old.

There's a lot of assumption from you regarding this and I don't like it.

VOTE: Tuxedo Mask

[Tuxedo Mask]

read me, coward.

What do you think of the votes on you?

What do you think of Midwaybear's presence in the game? What do you think of their vote?

What do you think of my argument with Starbuck? What do you think of their catch up?

[Tuxedo Mask]

In post 241, Tuxedo Mask wrote:
Beeboy makes an entrance on page 2, but says nothing. Doesn't even RVS vote.

Do you think everyone is required to RVS vote?

No one is required to do anything. It was a part of a greater point about Beeboy non-posting till page 4, an RVS vote would have been acceptable content for page 2. Yet they said hi and then left, then returned to repost their intro. It was weird to me then, and is still a bit weird now in my opinion.

That's rich coming from someone who didn't post until Page 7 and nearly 8 hours after the thread opened. As the game opened in the morning on a Tuesday, folks were probably on their way or already at work. I try to consider those real-life commitments when folks pop in and leave like he did. It's just completely NAI.

I also find it hard to believe that you didn't even consider time stamps. There's just over an hour from the first post in the game until beeboy's first post. For me, we're still in RVS when we're only an hour into a week-ish long Day 1, whether we're on Page 2 or Page 4 in the first hour of the game.

So no, I think your weird feeling comes from the fact that you tried to set him up and failed because you know that you didn't assess the situation optimally.

Sorry, wait, what's your point here?

What I'm saying is if on page 2 Beeboy posted saying hi, and on page 3 posted again complaining no one said hi back it means they are there watching the game unfold but refusing to participate. Page 4 is when they start posting content. What does any of that have to do with day length, time stamps, or me not posting till page 7?

That there was an hour between when the thread opened and when he posted. You can't really go by pages at that point because they were already moving quickly and the game was ONLY AN HOUR OLD. The fact that you still feel "weird" about his entrance, now, just shows that you're trying to hold onto that to possibly push it later when it was a ridiculous case to even start.

Not taking time stamps into consideration is lack of attention detail and can definitely come from someone who wanted to throw shade real quick and earn some town cred as he entered the game nearly 8 hours after it began. beeboy was just your easy target. He may have come in on Page 4, but he still entered an hour after the thread opened which is fair amount of time to still post a hi, an RVS vote, or whatever.

I think lilith was right to call you out in 402 for trying to derail the conversation that was happening. I'm not sure if I agree with her idea of your motive, but I think you had a motive then and you still have one now or you wouldn't be hanging onto it being "weird."

Why does it matter how old the game was? That is completely unrelated to the point I was making. What I'm saying is that by the time Beeboy first posted a wagon on Dunnstral was already going. Beeboy does not comment, just says hi. Then a page later he complains no one said hi back. That means Beeboy is watching the conversation in-game unfold, and is reading close enough to know no one said hi but still doesn't comment on what is happening in the game. What the intention behind that is up for interpretation, but what happened is just an objective reading of the game. I don't see how those actions are relevant to the game being 1 hour old, or me not posting till it was 8 hours old.

There's a lot of assumption from you regarding this and I don't like it.

VOTE: Tuxedo Mask

What am I assuming?! It's on the page, to be read. I'm literally only talking about what you can observe. I said I specifically wasn't even talking about how to interpret Beeboy's actions, just Beeboy's actions. You didn't even answer what any of this has to do with time stamps.