Mini 645 - Innocence Falls (Game Over)

[Andycyca]

I think it's called Argument by repetition

Reading one-player threads

[Ythill]

...too many quick votes for someone who is

reluctant to cast votes in the beginning

.

Ythill. In my view, he has jumped over two persons with very poor arguments. Especially inconsistent with someone that claims

early voting is not his speciality

and that

claims that never goes for early voting...

@ nuriens: I said I don't joke vote. Then I explained the difference between that and early voting. Stop twisting my words, scum.

The

only thing

you have said is :

"1. It's my apology for refusing to post a random vote. I try to get a content-based vote out as soon as I have a lead, even if it's a minor one. "

Nuriens, not having a proper defense for himself, decided to deflect suspicion by suddenly attacking me. He did this by claiming that me refusing to joke vote somehow meant that I wouldn't vote in the "early" part of the game. I never said any such thing. His first lie.

When I point out what I actually said, and that I explained the difference between that and early voting (that an early content vote is something I will do), nuriens claimed that I'd only made one post on the topic, rather than two. His second lie.

When I pointed that out, the "king of qualifiers" backtracked, asking us to believe that he posted the phrase "the only thing you have said," without qualifiers, to mean "the only thing you said about the difference between joke voting and early voting." Third lie is the charm.

Give it up, dude. I'm not Goebels. I've simply been trying to keep it brief, since we have so many wordy players, and since I've had limited access.

Your "attack" is nothing but a weak attempt to keep the heat off of yourself. You haven't answered my initial accusations satisfactorily. You haven't answered the accusations of others satisfactorily. And I

haven't even shared

all of the scumtells I've seen from you.

[habitang]

I'm sorry. Nureins, your super long posts are way too long and I can't read them. Each time I start I see how much there is and I have to stop before I start crying at how much there is. I don't even do this much reading for school. I am starting to have a slight feeling that you may just be scum, what a great scum tactic: have super long posts so that noone reads them, hence avoiding suspicion. But I'm glad we do have people reading them. Otherwise I haven't really been reading your posts, too long, this is to your disadvantage because I will gladly be the hammer vote if you're the suspect, even without reading.

@YtHill: I'm curious, you had suspicions on TPT earlier on, but then you never did clarify if you stopped suspecting him, I assume you have stopped suspectign him since you stopped posting about him. What happened? I know once again I am directing conversation, but feel free to retrun to whatever you guys are on about after this short tangent.

[habitang]

oh yeh

unvote: Andyca

I hope you keep up the posting.

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote Count

nureins: (2) Ectomancer, Ythill
The Pope's Tiara: (2) nhat, Jahudo
Andycyca: (1) Cass
Ythill: (1) nureins
Simenon: (1) Andycyca
Ectomancer: (1) The Pope's Tiara


Not voting: Goatrevolt, Simenon, Matin, habitang

The Pope's Tiara has been prodded.

[nureins]

Im not gonna answer repetitive posts by Ythill. If any has doubts on some particular issue, please try to write them down as Jahudo did. Ill answer. If anyone feels Ythill is scummy, please take my seat in facing him, as I feel that he is refusing me completely...

[nureins]

I'm sorry. Nureins, your super long posts are way too long and I can't read them. I am starting to have a slight feeling that you may just be scum, what a great scum tactic: have super long posts so that noone reads them, hence avoiding suspicion.

Another one who have doubts for writting long posts ?
Responsible: the mod of my first game...He told me to try to write all my thoughts in ONE post. I prefer to answer questions separately in one post. This makes me to write 5 posts/day in average, but I do mantain my opinion that this can only be a good strategy for town.

Be careful WHO is reading my long posts and HOW this person is answering them...

[Ythill]

Quick post before work.

It looks like I've cornered nuriens-scum. He's backing out of the argument and blaming it on me, but his next post contains a passive-aggressive jab. I will be rereading this game soon, probably tonight. When I do, unless I find some heretofore undiscovered town-tells, I will be posting a complete case against nuriens.

@ habit: I don't find Pope any less suspicious than I did, but there are bigger fish to fry. Why would you threaten to hammer someone (who is only @ L-5) without reading his posts? Seriously dude, if you don't like to read, why are you playing this game?

[nureins]

He's backing out of the argument

Goebels.

[Ythill]

Scum.

[nureins]

Scum.

are u a child ??
I quoted a sentence in which you tried to put in the mind of everyone an image of me (a false one clearly), and to do it concisely, I wrote Goebels.
You just "called" me scum...this is more Goebels and/or childish. In that case I find it the second haha

[Jahudo]

Otherwise I haven't really been reading your posts, too long, this is to your disadvantage because I will gladly be the hammer vote if you're the suspect, even without reading.

Habit, are you partially joking here or all serious? And are you saying this more for Day 1 investigations or are you against long posts in later days, especially lylo?

One part I agree with and struggle to change myself is separating different thoughts, like if part of a post is about one investigation and part is about another. So long posters could be more supportive of quick readers or those with limited access, etc.

So far I don't see a concern much with nureins word count as much as his points of accusation. I'm not sold on a vote yet.

[Simenon]

And I haven't even shared all of the scumtells I've seen from you.

Bad idea.

[Cass]

I'd like to see the full case and hear all the scumtells, because I still don't see Nurien's scumminess. Nor Ythill's, to be honest.
Can we also quit the 'ad naziem' arguments, kthnx?

[Ythill]

And I haven't even shared all of the scumtells I've seen from you.

Bad idea.

I've had worse.

I think it's funny that nuriens has been busted by a "child."

Off to do my reread...

[Ythill]

First things first...

I read nuriens' posts (and those he quoted) carefully, skimmed the rest.

I've identified three people likely to be town (one of them is about as solid a read as I could have at this point). Not going to name them.

Nuriens is still my PE#1. Matin and habit are looking suspicious to me. A few others are looking creepy, but less suspicious than these three. None of my tells on them are based on relationships with one another and I am

not

saying that all three are scum, just that they are the three most likley

individuals

in my view.

I've decided that the Pope evidence is inconclusive.

Anyway, I promised a case on nuriens... get out your reading glasses...

[Ythill]

PbPA of nuriens

Starts forcing conversation through serious questions as early as #14 and theory debate by #20. (null)

Names 7 of 12 players as possibly implicated in #38-39. Gives ambivalent “town-soft” reads on two of them, with little new evidence, in #53. (scum)

Posts the “which is a joke?” quiz (#58) to his declared townies, myself, and the lead suspect. The examples all shed suspicion on two opposed players. The post leaves a very obvious exit from any attempt to discredit it (scum).

Considers Pope “a bit suspicious” while coaching him in #65 (scum).

Changes his Ecto read with the evidence (town) and puts words in Jah’s mouth (scum) in #71.

“Beautiful dance” post (#75) suspecting all three players in the most current drama. Confirms his vote while saying, of it “randomness has not disappeared a lot.” (scum)

WOW (#105-107) is a study in ambivalence, “answering” all questions without taking a solid stance. Interpretation could take things either way. Uses the outs he seeded in #58. Coaches Pope twice. Avoids a direct question about his stance by claiming he’d already answered it (major scum).

Second WOW (#111) minimizes his own suspicions, attacks Sim for null tells, eluding that he is scum and Pope is town. Uses the “too rational to be a townie” argument (scum).

Third WOW (#128) makes slippery arguments against Sim, using them to finally take a stand (as well as vote) immediately after I have called him out for being wishy-washy. He does this while claiming that he’s in no hurry and trying to convince us of a semi-random stage (scum).

In #129 he’s territorial (not sure if that’s the right word) about his treatment of Sim (null).

In #144 argues semantics, offers a false dichotomy, and continues baseless arguments against Sim (scum).

A confusing misquote in #146 just makes me wonder if he’s paying attention (null), but he goes on to use his earlier ambivalence tactically, invite suspicion, and give a baseless townie read on Cass (scum, though some are very mild).

In #157, he says he’s not arguing theory, but rather arguing about the three word post that his THEORY ARGUMENTS started with. He then claims that the separation of his posts somehow proves the order in which he read. Then OMGUS attacks me. (all null, but not compelling defenses to the allegations). Chimes in on the infer/imply situation in #158 (null).

Scumeter (#161) does not follow the progression of evidence/accusation as stated by its author (major scum). Reveals the poor semantic argument of his Sim case in #171 (null, but weakens the argument). Also blathers a defense to a hard question about wagons and his vote (scum). Second of three alleged lies in #172 (scum).

Pushes good questions in #173 (town).

In #184, explicitly offers to sway his opinion if people can convince him (scum). Gets involved in the “agent of scum,” discussion, which is

somebody’s

smokescreen, but not his own (null).

Posts the no-I’m-not defense in #187, includes a very mild appeal to emotion (null, but not a convincing defense).

Growing weary of debates in #189. Not a solid tell but this looks like an escape hatch (cornered scum).

Argues with me in #194 (see my #195). Argues more in #197: funny that

he

calls

me

out for arguing semantics when I’d pointed out his misleading bombast. Even though a lot of his points were crap, it’s very hard for me to tell the difference between cornered scum and frustrated townie in these posts (null).

In #198, bases much of his case against me on the assumption that my case against him (which he never really answered) was weak (scum).

In #205, refuses to answer “repetitive” posts by me, thereby declaring that me clarifying the truth about his misleading assertions is just repetition. Makes a passive-aggressive stab at me, a sort of underhanded defense of himself, in #206 (cornered scum).

In #208, again makes the baseless assertion that I am lying. Comes back in #210 with ad hom (cornered scum).

[nhat]

And I haven't even shared all of the scumtells I've seen from you.

I've identified three people likely to be town (one of them is about as solid a read as I could have at this point). Not going to name them.

What's with the secrets? Also, you are going tit-for-tat with a player whose English is far from perfect. Nureins has absolutely no reason to be as verbose as he is, and I think it's flawed that the more you say the better, but it looks like a good opportunity for scum types to snipe at him freely and bandwagon.

FoS - Ythill

[Simenon]

Ythill is absolutely correct on the latter.

[Ythill]

@ nhat:

Having not shared scumtells

yet

is not a secret. Especially since I let it all hang out

before

your accusation.

When I first started playing this game, I learned that giving town reads too early helps the scum, so I will not be divulging that sort of information unless it becomes extremely important, such as if one of my townie-reads is involved in a counter claim.

But I shouldn't let you pull me into a theory debate. There are

plenty

of pro-town reasons to withhold information.

Also, you are going tit-for-tat with a player whose English is far from perfect.

Nothing I've said requires fluency beyond that already demonstrated by nuriens. Nor does he have a problem following complex arguments. Nor is he the only one who can discuss the points. Nor is being multilingual a town tell.

...it looks like a good opportunity for scum types...

As does everything. Please explain why scum would be more likley than town to treat nuriens as I have. Saying something "looks like" scumminess demonstrates nothing.

Besides, who's bandwagoning?

[habitang]

[quote="YtHill']None of my tells on them are based on relationships with one another and I am not saying that all three are scum, just that they are the three most likley individuals in my view. [/quote]

vote:YtHill

Scum has slipped up and also given us clues to how many of them there are. Gone!

[Ythill]

I guess I've made another OMGUS enemy.

@ habit: I never said there were three scum. I said I had main suspects. I also said I had three town reads. Do you think I was saying there are only three townies?

[Ythill]

EBWOP: "main suspects" should be "three main suspects".

[habitang]

Sorry. That is my bad reading again.

unvote

I do liek to read, but more succint stuff would be good.
Wells I guess I will try do some reading now...

[habitang]

Oh yeh, I can't follow all those posts on Nureins you made. I read them but NONE of them seem liek scum-tells, so can you like highligth teh main ones or top 3 for me please?