Mini 645 - Innocence Falls (Game Over)

[nureins]

Also I say a no-lynch day causes us to learn far less than say investigating multiple people and deciding on a lynch. With a lynch we have supporters and dissenters and their alignment adds to the conversation in the next day.

In my new "assigned" newbie condition, probably my words will be thrown away in this debate. But Id simply postpone this stupid thing. We are gonna collect all the information. 3 days before an hypothetical deadline, Im open to hear about "no lynchs", and ill most likely refuse them...now, it is just muddying the waters.

[nureins]

So it's day one; most votes have been made off of jokes or small leads. But I notice that three people have voted for me with still no substantial information. Perhaps one person made the original joke vote, and two scum followed with the already town-made vote because they know that I am not one of them. Jahudo has been fighting aggressively as town, so perhaps we should set our sights on nhat and Cass?

Welcome Tritch.
Since Im gonna follow the recommendation and adhere to other of my top suspects, lets start.

Why have you AVOIDED the inclusion of Ectomancer in your list ???
I REMEMBER very very well how he voted you, as this started a bit of chaos in my mind...

[Cass]

Ah, welcome Tritch, replacement of TPT I see. You want the town to look at me, well go ahead. However, do you not think it's scummy to joke around sarcastically on day 1, not contribute anything and then disappear without a word?
Your presence indicates it was flaking rather than lurking, but how were we supposed to know that? So please explain what's scummy about my vote.

@Ythill: thanks for the case on habit.
@Habit: watch it, you're doing the suicidal townie thing again We

will

lynch someone today.

[Jahudo]

Hm, getting replaced wasn't exactly pro-active on TPT's part but now I can see his recent absence as more flaking than lurking as Cass said. Tritch, it doesn't matter how small of a lead led to a focus on TPT. His serious contributions were undercut by jokes that allowed him to disown his own actions, and his supposed secret "spreadsheet" agenda allowed him to disown his entire play style and personality. But I don't think his play style stuck to the slot that you now have so to me it's more a null tell now.

I would be interested to hear your theories on nhat, Cass, and myself as an outside observer. It's not enough for you to say TPT was town because you know your role is town.

Personally I think any scum might've wanted to leave the TPT wagon long ago because it never looked like gaining momentum enough for a lynch, which is what the scum are looking for. The pro-town wouldn't have momentum as their top priority as long as they gain information to help them decide who's who, right?

unvote

[Cass]

Yep, my vote on Tritch (actually TPT) is mostly a placeholder now. It will very likely move soon, depending on Tritches actions. I have currently no desire to see him lynched.

[Ythill]

Habit's speculation about the setup is just that. The flavor doesn't include any definitive statements. It mentions the

possibility

of inclusion of the three most common town power roles, but also hints that any number of other roles might be included.

@ nuriens: Why did you pick Tritch and not Sim for your current case?

I'm looking forward to the Cass vs. Tritch situation that's brewing.

[habitang]

Sorry all. My impatience is kicking in. Yes that is a scum-tell. But it is also just a plain human-tell. I have no evidence except I'm running on instinct. I also know I am capitalising on Cass' good nature of reminding everyone how crap a player I am.

Jahudo seems to keep just being on the edge of my scum-radar. So he is just smelling fishy, I mena others have been higher on the suspect list but Jahudo just seems to be constantly tehre.
SO runnign on instinct.

vote: Jahudo

[nhat]

Welcome Trich, and way to knock the OMGUS out of the park on your first post. You can see my feelings about TPT, so sorry that he (she?) left a mess for you, but it seems you have to do the clean-up before I take my vote off.

[nureins]

@ nuriens: Why did you pick Tritch and not Sim for your current case?

Just to answer you properly, first of all, I picked TPT, not Tritch. With Sim I already had a intense debate and I have the feeling that I cannot extract anything else from him vis a vis. This does not mean of course he is out of my radar. Same to you, he remains high in my radar but I consider better not to go on vis a vis and to look from outside a little bit. Impressions are better formed in that way (though of course, you do not get the type/magnitude of impressions that you achieve in a vis to vis). So probably a combination of Outside and Inside impressions on everybody is what I'm looking.

For that, even if I have already read that this is "too long" from lot of experienced players, I would not mind to extend this phase up to the moment in which I could have had a intense vis a vis debate with any of you. But do not allow me to start "theory" debates. I talk too much and I've seen already some comments by some people in that direction

[Cass]

Welcome Trich, and way to knock the OMGUS out of the park on your first post. You can see my feelings about TPT, so sorry that he (she?) left a mess for you, but it seems you have to do the clean-up before I take my vote off.

QFT.

I'll go back to habit's setup speculation in a later day, probably, when it may be more relevant.

[Simenon]

Vote matin

Hasn't said anything controversial or substantive, except in a defense of him/herself (what is your gender, by the way?)

I think we should pressure somebody who doesn't talk as much right now.

[nureins]

Vote matin

Hasn't said anything controversial or substantive, except in a defense of him/herself (what is your gender, by the way?)

I think we should pressure somebody who doesn't talk as much right now.

A couple of comments on Matin after taking a look:

- Maybe that is not relevant, but 30 per cent of the lines of his posts are own comments, 70 per cent are quotes. Would like to metagame it, dunno if playstyle or as Simenon says, just not participating. And in the latter case, that percentage could mean he appears to be.

- His last post gives some opinions. I already answered his suspicions on me. I find correct his suspicions on Habitang, meaning that he is explaining in a fair way reasons he has over him and fit somehow with my view of habitang. He mainly shares his view on TPT with me...

Umm Im a bit lost with him. In my mind he was not a lurker before you mentioned. Now I do not consider him so passive, but neither as active as I thought.

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote Count

Tritch: (2) nhat, Cass
nureins: (1) Ythill
Simenon: (1) Andycyca
Ectomancer: (1) Tritch
Jahudo: (1) habitang
Matin: (1) Simenon


Not voting: Goatrevolt, Matin, Ectomancer, nureins, Jahudo

Matin has requested replacement.

[Jahudo]

Well so much for pressuring Matin. I agree with nureins and others that he didn't have those active, opinionated posts until his last one; there was either a bad quote to analysis ratio or he only posted 1-2 sentences.

@habitang: Can you elaborate on your instinct towards me? What do you mean by "I'm constantly there"? Also, how does being "constantly there" differ from those you're saying are higher on your suspect list?

I'm rethinking one of our earlier arguments on how you thought I was too exclusive in my investigations: questioning TPT more than others. I could argue you have also been prioritizing my case more than others, and that's not just because I'm me. In reality, though, I prefer to argue that both of us have questioned multiple people throughout this day and the reason we have prioritized a certain person is somewhat based on instinct or that gut feeling. Would you agree?

Also if I were to rate a suspect list of my own and omit our two replacements as null tells you would still be in the middle with slightly town inclinations.

[habitang]

Well as a suspect you seem to be a safer choice than others. ie. Tritch's strange behaviour can be interpreted both ways as either completely eccentric Town or completely scummy. Same as Nureins and YtHill.
While to me, you are always giving safe answers, safe positioning, never really sticking your head out to take a stand on anyone.

While that makes sense for a Town to do in Day 1 especially, it also makes a lot more sense for scum to do the same. So in terms of the scummiest people in the game, your actions are not as overtly scummy as others but if I am going to vote for anyone in Day 1, I"m going to pick the one who balances the middle of putting in 'just enough' contribution to not be lurking and putting in 'just enough' suspicions to avoid appearing like you aren't scum-hunting.

My argument is very much on the side of 'Too Townie', which I know is bad. So in Day 1, the whole thing against Jahudo is instinct. My argument is not based on evidence but on the feeling that he may be playing his cards too well. Which is bad play by me, to accuse someone of acting Townie too well.

I also know how someone will pick up how I seem to give a lot of excuses for bad play. Scum. And I dunno (more ambiguity), I'm too tired to do anything else atm.

My vote stands until scum does something completely stupid. Maybe Jahudo will.

[nureins]

Curious. I found two games by Matin.
In both of them, the quota/own ratio was 50 per cent.
In both of them, he was mafia.

Not significative, with only two games. But if anything, having more quotes seems not to mean something scummy in his side.

What about his replacement ? In my view, that could be interpreted in several ways:

- If he is a passive player, either he had some occupation or this game as townie is less exciting that his two goon games.
- If he is an active player, either he had some occupation or he is tired of the same side of the story (Im already desiring to try the other side !!)

Having metagamed him a bit and reading his posts and the amount of bits he writes, I bet for the first scenario, so I mantain my (now softy) townie reads on him waiting for new comments by his replacement...

[nureins]

@all:

-We are relaxing now.
-We are lazy now.


- We have allowed Tritch to enter the game passively without answering any of the issues TPT raised, and without analyzing deeply anything. Tritch, welcome...

VOTE: TRITCH

Id like you to answer about:

1. What do you think of TPT's autovote and attitude ?
2. was that emotional or rational ? in the latter case, which is your opinion about the reason ?
3. You described votes on TPT as reasoned/unreasoned, lets say, and you pointed out 3 ppl. Id like you to describe one by one the votes on TPT that you consider reasoned (if you also do with the unreasoned, that is even better)

[Andycyca]

sorry for not posting guys. Big exam tomorrow. Post after that.

[Ythill]

I, on the other hand, just haven't had anything new to say. Will probably be pretty light for the next two days as well... very busy... but I'll be back up to speed after that.

[habitang]

haha. Yeh we are lazy. aw wells. I'm pooped. Time for some time under the sun. Maybe I will set up my deckchair just by the lake, ahhh..........

[Cass]

Still waiting for Tritch to reply... say something, anything...

[Ectomancer]

I had a weekend at SchlitterBahn, so I've been out and am beat. It looks like everyone is waiting around for Tritch to tell us why we aren't going to lynch him over TPT?

[Ythill]

I'm not interested in lynching Tritch at this point, but I'll hear what he has to say.

Not waiting for anything specific, just working long hours, got a date tonight, and tomorrow is poker night. I'll be able to poke my nose in for a moment like this, but don't expect any serious research.

[Andycyca]

No worries... it was poorly worded.

Basically, I'm wondering if people see nuriens' scummy behavior as null-n00b play. Or, more generally, I started to see that such is a possibility and I wanted others to weigh in on that topic.

After reading the nureins-only I find him a newbie. That theory about him being an experienced-player-but-first-time-scum doesn't make any sense. An experienced player would know a better approach to the game, both as scum and town (even more, if person X has been protown a long time, he knows how to think protown)

So what I propose is a no-lynch, or no-vote. Whatever it is. Let me see, 12 people. Night Kill x 1 by scum. NK x 1 by vigilante and we still have a ratio of 8:2 at best or 6:4 at worst.

Ugh, setup speculation AND a no lynch vote. I see no real basis for this. FoS. Why on earth did you bring this up? We weren't even talking about this.

[Ectomancer]

I'm not interested in lynching Tritch at this point, but I'll hear what he has to say.

Not waiting for anything specific, just working long hours, got a date tonight, and tomorrow is poker night. I'll be able to poke my nose in for a moment like this, but don't expect any serious research.

Good.