Mini 611 - Troy, Meet Helen (Game Over)

[camn]

Alright, mac.. I can get with this.

I think Walnut is a Townie that has been on his heels all game, and hasn't got a chance to get his footing.

LG I think got misunderstood. He posted some things that read a little scummy.. but in another light I can see them as town. Probably town.

Tinsley I think is scum. I'm not CONVINCED.. but I am never really sure of things this early in the game.

Fark I am still questionable on. He isn't overtly scummy to me. . but I certainly see some of these arguments. I'm almost willing to vote him. Later this week I will look into that.

c

PS.. Everyone posts more when their ass is on the line.

[CF Riot]

I'd mentioned them already somewhere or another but "No" to Tinsley or LG vote. Tinsley I think is town, LG I don't know either way but I don't think the cases against him are any kind of worthy of a lynch.

I don't care how long it takes or how much posting has to go on before we get an opinion from SG. Even if we get a crappy post that doesn't help the matters at hand, I want documented opinions from her. I don't like anyone going untraceable for this long. Like I said, if it's going to be Fark I'm ready for that. We don't have to waste any extra time interrogating, but we really need something to go on from SG.

[Walnut]

Walnut: I think there are several valid points against you and if you were town, you'd at least try to point out why they're wrong or what your justification for taking X scummy action is. You're answers are used for us to decide if you are scummier or townier. However, I think not answering at all is the scummiest thing you could've done, yet no one but Mac and I seem bothered by it, so since I know how I feel on you I don't see any point in answering now.

Basically it was all the same stuff that had been raised during Day 1 and earlier in Day 2. I had answered most of it already, and did not want to repeat myself and clog up the airwaves. I think most of the players appreciate that, so that is why they are not bothered as you and Mac are.

As for Fark and Tinsley, I am already voting for Tinsley, so I obviously consider him an acceptable lynch for today. I am less convinced by a Fark lynch- while I don't actually agree with his recent argument against Lord Gurgi, I don't see much that says scum.

I find the narrowing down that Mac has done suspicious. If he is scum, then people agreeing to this could easily seal the game for the mafia, as it would be lynch one off the list, NK someone else, lynch one off the list etc. Yep, I know that we have to lynch someone today, but I don't like the assumption that this makes that the other players are inviolate.

[ShadowGirl]

Sorry everyone. I've been sleeping like sixteen hours a day and I want to sleep the other eight. Well, today I got a grand total of four hours of sleep.

Also, when should we decide what to do with camn? I don't think we can give her a free ticket through the rest of the game, especially when she's not doing a stellar job at scumhunting.

No, she should not get a free ticket but with her claim - which I see is more likely to be true, I don't see any reason as to line up lynch when she hasn't done anything particularily scummy.

charter, you suspect a lot of people. Can I ask you who your top townie is and why?

Looking for someone to kill off tonight? There is absolutely no reason you need to know this, but I know that I have no choice but to answer all questions directed at me. It's been Riot for quite some time. I only suspect three people, I think I made that pretty clear in my post 567, not the "lot of people" you put in my mouth.

I see it as a valid question, if you were to get lynched this could be valuable information.

CHarter, it looks like you read the quote before, not the one following the colon:

Charter, you have not answered this question from post #623:
Quote:

A couple of people have given up on voting for you because they think you are playing too badly to be scum. I have not heard you disagree- are you swallowing that distasteful argument because it coincides with them unvoting you?


This is not being facetious or insulting- it is a genuine question for you.

I never saw a point in responding. What am I supposed to say? No, in fact I am scum?

Then just say you saw no point in responding it because you believe it was a loaded question.

1. Macavenger. - Playing a perfect townie. Just how I would play if I were scum! Real townies make mistakes.

Hm. This is interesting, but I can see how the whole 'too townie' thing doesn't work. Scum play in many different ways.

Bah, it seems the LG wagon has lost all hope. I STILL think he's the most definate scum, but I'll settle for Walnut.

unvote, vote walnut

Fark, trying to play off your frequent wagon hopping with legitimate reasons ("There's nothing scummy about being strategic with your vote to make sure that scum gets lynched (especially since we haven't even lynched one of them yet)") certainly isn't helping you in my mind. I would just use the defense, "I know I'm town, so I'd rather someone else scummy get lynched". It would have been much more believable than your trying to supply actual reasoning for the votechanging.

You seem to be doing the same thing, really - shifting around your vote on whomever you think you can get lynched so I don't see how you can Fark on it.

Day's gone on too long,

Mod: Could we get a deadline?

.

I'm noticing that both Walnut and Fark are voting for Tinsley now. I would say we should wait for ShadowGirl, but I don't think she would contribute anything to break us out of the petty arguments.

This seems a bit counter-productive. Wouldn't it be better to request a deadline after I come back?

I have read the whole Mac post against me, and feel that there is nothing worth answering, as it is mainly rehashing, arguments based on incorrect assumptions, oversimplifcations and "you did <insert any role neutral action> so you are scum". If anyone has any specific questions from that, I am willing to answer them.

Then why not point them out? Or at least refute them of quotes of defense you already have on them?

Fark, I already tried following you on an LG wagon and it went nowhere, I'm not going to do it again since I don't see how it will be any different this time around. Unless someone else is willing to vote LG, my vote is much better placed on you.

I don't see why you follow someone who you think is scummy onto a wagon. Unless you believe he manipulated you?

My brain's turning to mush, but here's a list of all the people currently in the game and whether I see them as suspicious/see them as an appropriate lynch in order
LG: Maybe-Yes
fark: Maybe-Yes
Walnut: Maybe-Yes
charter: Maybe
Thesp: Pending tommorow's result.
Mac: No-Maybe
Tinsley: No
CF Riot: No
Camn: No

I'm with Camn on Walnut.

So,

vote: Fark

[Farkshinsoup]

I know that SG's vote doesn't actually put me at L-1, but I'm going to treat it like it is, because of CF and charter's and Mac's intentions to lynch me. I was hoping that she would vote for someone else but that was not in the cards. Sorry it came to this, but this is my first game with a power role, and I obviously did a bad job flying under the radar.

I'm a weak doctor - I can protect someone at night, but if I protect scum, I die. Last night I protected Thesp, and since I didn't die, he is confirmed cop.

Did you notice how at the end of Day 1 I was trying to get Thesp to give me some more info about his role pm?

Can't believe we were not going to lynch the guy who suggested lynching a claimed cop. A claimed cop with no counter-claim. Shocked

I'm happy to drop the hammer. But first:

Thesp: could you give us a little more info (flavour, anything) about Had's, now your, cop claim?

So I'll drop the hammer later today, I'm just waiting for Thesp to check back in. I had some questions for him, so did Macavenger, haven't heard anything to make me change my mind.

I wanted to protect him, but I also didn't want to die if he was scum. And I wanted to leave something behind for you guys to figure out who I protected if I didn't make it through the night. (Although I'm not certain that my "weak" status would have been revealed after I die - still don't)

I was hoping that during Day 2, Thesp would drop his focus on me and look elsewhere but that never happened. I tried to give him a breadcrumb that only he would understand here:

Honestly, considering how many people find me scummy, I'm starting to think that the only reason I'm still alive is for entertainment value. From now on, Thesp, I want you to call me Farkle, or failing that, THADmiral!

This is a reference to a game that Thesp was in about a year ago called Farkle Mafia, where a player named THADmiral was the doctor. Here's the link: viewtopic.php?t=5037.

So I'll most likely be NK'd tonight, but I should be able to protect Thesp so that he can get in one more investigation.

I'll answer any questions anyone has, but I'll be away from the computer until later today.

Carry on.

[charter]

Vote LG.

[charter]

That was telling the Fark wagon to vote for LG, not me placing a vote.

[Thesp]

Unvote: farkshinsoup, Vote: Tinsley.

[Tinsley]

Unvote: Fark

Vote: Walnut

Between Walnut and LG, I find Walnut scummier. I had my doubts about LG being scum because of his fight with Fark, but I need to reevaluate him since Fark's claim seems believable.

[Mizzy]

Vote Count:

Tinsley 3 (camn, Walnut, Thesp)
Walnut 3 (Macavenger, CF Riot, Tinsley)
Farkshinsoup 2 (Lord Gurgi, ShadowGirl)
Lord Gurgi 2 (Farkshinsoup, charter)

Not Voting:

None.

10 Alive = 6 to lynch!

[Thesp]

I was hoping that during Day 2, Thesp would drop his focus on me and look elsewhere but that never happened. I tried to give him a breadcrumb that only he would understand here:

Honestly, considering how many people find me scummy, I'm starting to think that the only reason I'm still alive is for entertainment value. From now on, Thesp, I want you to call me Farkle, or failing that, THADmiral!

This is a reference to a game that Thesp was in about a year ago called Farkle Mafia, where a player named THADmiral was the doctor. Here's the link: viewtopic.php?t=5037.

I wish I was smooth enough to have picked up on this. I thought it was an odd phrasing, but I didn't think anything beyond that. Sorry. (If you're town, that is, then I'm sorry. If you're scum, of course, then die in the fire of a thousand explosions.)

[Lord Gurgi]

Well, I don't think that he's lying because scum tend not to claim doctor, much less weak doctor.

Unvote

. Gah now I don't know what to think.

On the upside, we go into tomorrow with at least one investigative role. From the point of if Fark is alive he can clear one person, if Thesp is alive we have an investigation.

I do get the bad feeling though that if I'm going to be lynched it will be because I was the most outspoken one on the Farkwagon, mostly because of the feelings that Tinsley stated, and less because of scummy behaviour.

[ShadowGirl]

Unvote.

It is a rather risky claim to make as scum, but it seems believable. But... I don't know. This game just seems to have one twist and turn after another.

Ehh...

[Thesp]

*slaps Lord Gurgi and ShadowGirl with a wet fish*

Move somewhere now! Take your best guess.

[charter]

Thesp, who are your top three picks for scum now?

Also, I see this as a prime opportunity to look closer into LG's recent vote for Fark, I'll see if I can find anything useful.

[charter]

Same question to Riot. Who are your top three picks for scum?

[Lord Gurgi]

Vote: Macavenger

. I have stated why previously and am too lazy to say it again.

[charter]

Didn't find anything about LG, but I did on Tinsley. I'd be Ok with a Tinsley lynch. Coupled with most of the town's suspicion of him and his post 654, he's not looking too good anymore.

I actually had a big speech questioning Fark, but decided I'd just take the vote for you and not care about his justification. Fark's vote is horrible, but I will deal with that later (after you are lynched).

I'd still like to see that speech. Charter - with the recent developments between LG and Fark, do you still think they are both scum? I think this is more proof that Fark is trying to get any lynch besides Walnut, but it's making me wonder whether or not LG is scum.

I didn't read too much into this post before, as I was willing to take any and all votes for LG without caring the reason for them. Fark fell pretty much right under this category.

His post is trying to get me to pick Fark over LG. Coupled with my strong belief that LG is scum (which I stated a few posts before Tinsley's) and Fark's recent claim, this statement by him is incredibly manipulative.

Mac, would you be willing to lynch LG over Walnut today?

I'd like to revise my LoS
1- LG
2- Tinsley
3- Walnut/most everyone else
I'm not so sure Walnut is scum, I think we might have gotten bamboozeled into thinking that.

More things pointing to the LG + Tinsley pair.

Something I noticed: Nobody is against Farklynch excluding Fark. Tinsley I would vote for only as a last option. Walnut is maybe.

LG would first prefer to lynch Fark, who I'm believing is town, then Walnut, and Tinsley as a last option. It makes sense if Tinsley and LG are a scumpair.

[Lord Gurgi]

More things pointing to the LG + Tinsley pair.

Something I noticed: Nobody is against Farklynch excluding Fark. Tinsley I would vote for only as a last option. Walnut is maybe.

LG would first prefer to lynch Fark, who I'm believing is town, then Walnut, and Tinsley as a last option. It makes sense if Tinsley and LG are a scumpair.

This is what I mean when I say that you work from the assumption that I am scum. I don't want to lynch Tinsley, that does not make me scum with him.

[charter]

I'm looking for scumpairs. You and Tinsley are fitting nicely together. I don't see other people acting towards each other how you two do, so yes, I'm assuming you are scum and how you're acting then makes perfect sense.

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm looking for scumpairs. You and Tinsley are fitting nicely together. I don't see other people acting towards each other how you two do, so yes, I'm assuming you are scum and how you're acting then makes perfect sense.

Thank you for the admission.

[Tinsley]

I actually think LG and charter are onto something, not the fact that LG and I are a scumpair, but that we could be getting bamboozled into thinking Walnut is scum. Charter look who has been pushing the Walnut bandwagon the hardest - Mac. If everyone is being "bamboozled" into believing Walnut is scum, isn't Mac the one that's doing it? I've been thinking about this since Fark's claim, here's where I stand:

I now trust:
Fark
Thesp

I'm pretty confident in:
camn

That leaves:
LG
SG
Walnut
Mac
CF Riot
charter

I've stated it several times, but I'll say it again, I just don't think SG is scum. That leaves five people I'm unsure of, and I just don't see Walnut having two partners out of that group. It seems obvious if Walnut were scum, that LG would be his partner, but who would be the third?

I mentioned earlier that I thought that it was the scum strategy to target Netlava on D1 because of his aggressive play style. I've been rereading Mac since LG voted for him, and while Riot really got the bandwagon started with post 173, Mac put some heat on him even before that (posts 141, 146, 160, and 170). He places a vote on Netlava after Riot and LG have. In post 278 he unvotes Netlava because Riot and Batt, who he now suspects, are both on the Netlava wagon and Walnut is considering joining it. To be fair though, he did continue to mention his suspicion of Netlava, and offered to drop the hammer.

Netlava also pointed out that Mac's playing style changed from the trainwrecked game to this one in that he was less aggressive. Mac argued that he typically doesn't play aggressive, but he was just that confident he had found scum last game. After it was brought up however, Mac has been more aggressive.

A couple other things I found that I didn't like:
- I think he's been doing some buddying up in this game. He defended LG when LG was arguing with Netlava. LG even called him out on this. He's also been buddying up to me - see posts 603 and 726 - he gives his reasoning as "I haven't seen him do anything massively scummy, and I don't see him as tied to likely scum Walnut and LG" even though several here have found at least some reason to suspect me.
- Claimed to suspect Riot during Day 1 (even jumping off Netlava's bandwagon partially because of the fact Riot was on it.) Riot disappears from his list of suspicion on Day 2. He's replaced on Mac's LoS by ShadowGirl for her lurking even though in post 323 he defended her lurking as a case of not having time.

Unvote: Walnut

Vote: Macavenger

[Farkshinsoup]

On the upside, we go into tomorrow with at least one investigative role. From the point of if Fark is alive he can clear one person, if Thesp is alive we have an investigation.

So you're suggesting that I protect someone other than Thesp? At first I thought that was scummy, but after some thought, I'm not so sure. I'm going to think about the implications of that possibility, and I'd like others to weigh in on it.

If I protect Thesp, and make that known, then he will survive the night with an investigation, unless there is a roleblocker, in which case scum could block me and kill him, giving us no useful investigation, then kill me the next night. Or they could block Thesp and kill me, same result, and they could kill Thesp the night after.

If I protect someone else, then Thesp could have an investigation, and through my death or survival we might be able to investigate someone else. Again though, if there is a rb, then I could be NK'd, possibly muddying the waters, and Thesp could be blocked.

In other news, I can't believe I'm doing this again, but since I can't seem to sway Thesp on LG, I'm going to

unvote vote: Tinsley

. Just a better chance of getting him lynched, and I really want to lynch scum today. Tinsley, are you a mafia roleblocker? Cause that would be awesome.

[charter]

Talking about who you're going to protect is idiotic. Now that you've done it, you have to protect Thesp. Tinsley isn't a RB, there isn't one. Without talking about your night action, you would make a whole slew of WIFOM for the mafia.
However, protect Thesp, you stand a good chance of getting killed. This will confirm Thesp to be town.

Gah, I just went and did a whole mess of speculation. Shoot me.

[Tinsley]

Fark - I think it's best not to discuss it so the scum have no clue what you plan to do.

Sorry, if you lynch me you won't be taking out a mafia roleblocker. Am I at L-2 now?

I probably won't be able to claim for about 16 hours. Should I go ahead and do it now?