Newbie 647 - Over!!!

[Lord Gurgi]

Also, not everyone agrees with utmost certainty whether or not a lynch is indeed necessary.

Then lynch 'em

[Brandi]

Lynch the people that don't think there should be a lynch of a specific person? No thanks, only if they are scummy. :B

[Malyss]

In post 110:

5. Just because a player is participating does not mean they are town.
6. I am disconcerted that you (Vir3040) are hopping your vote around this much. It seems like every post you've got completely different suspicions.

Vir3040 has only made two formal votes so far. His first vote was for me (Malyss), and then in post 107, he switched his vote to Lord Gurgi. Lord Gurgi’s comments to Vir3040 in post 110 sound too much like the pot calling the kettle black. Lord Gurgi has been the one to hop his vote around so much and has seemed to have completely different suspicions from post to post. Vir3040 pointed this out back in post #157:

Gurgi, do you realize you've voted for half the town already? First me, then Katie, SAO, OGML, and now Malyss. Only three more to go, unless you vote for yourself.

Lord Gurgi has not responded to Vir’s comment about his voting habits. Granted, it is probably not necessary to responds to every little thing in every posters post. Still, it feels glossed over.

Lord Gurgi has cast votes for Vir3040, Katie/Brandi (changed before the 2nd vote count was made), OGML, SAO and me (Malyss).

Lord Gurgi, why is it disconcerting for Vir3040 to change his vote once when you’ve changed your vote several times?

I feel uncomfortable with the bits of Lord Gurgi’s post 110, which I have quoted. Just because he is an IC and has been active, which has been a help in this particular game considering how things have been, does not mean that he is pro-town. I am troubled by Lord Gurgi’s disconcertion over Vir3040’s vote change. I cannot see how he can reasonably call out Vir for “vote hopping” when Vir has only made one vote change compared to Lord Gurgi’s multiple vote changes.

FOS: Lord Gurgi

[Brandi]

Mod: What is the status on your finding a replacement for OGML atm?

Hmm, Malyss seems to be right. LG is calling the kettle black. But is being a hypocrite really a scum tell?

[Lord Gurgi]

In retrospect yes, but I've always been bad about disregarding my own actions when going after scum. Sorry about that.

[SecretAgentOrange]

First of all:

Lurk

-intr.v.

lurked, lurk·ing, lurks

1. To lie in wait, as in ambush.
2. To move furtively; sneak.
3. To exist unobserved or unsuspected: danger lurking around every bend.

4. To read but not contribute to the discussion in a newsgroup, chatroom, or other online forum.

If this is in response to my saying "the definition of lurking" what I meant was that Lord Gurgi claimed that OGML was lurking then later came out to say that OGML wasn't really lurking, it wasn't long enough to be considered lurking.

Once you are out of the random stage, a second vote could be scummy depending on the reasoning.

I guess this is something that I don't understand. This isn't really my trying to defend myself here, but just as a general question to pose to anyone. Is it necessarily scummy to vote for someone for the same reason as someone else has? I notice this is something that newbies do a lot, town and scum. I mean, does each person have to come up with an individual reason to think someone is scummy? Say Player A admits to trying to quicklynch someone and Players B C and D say "crap that's scummy!" and vote for Player A. Are Players C and D scummy? Or say on page 8 Player 2 says "Whoah! Look at this scummy thing Player 1 did on page 1!" and Player 3 goes "You're right! That is scummy! I didn't notice that!" Is player 3 scummy? I don't mean this in terms of my own instance of a second vote, I'm done there. Just a general Mafia question.

OK, my opinions on the current situation.

First, Gurgi, please don't think that I was trying to attack you back there. I mean to say that I don't buy what I think was the strongest evidence against you, but that I guess, theoretically, some of the more minor stuff might stick if looked at in context later on down the line. Since you are an experienced player, I am more cautious around you than some of the other players. No matter how townie your play (and I think your play is pretty townieful) you'll never get an unqualified "I'm pretty sure he's town" from me.

The lack of internal consistency is a bit, eh, I dunno. Worrisome. It's going on my "possible scummy actions" list, but, grar. I dunno. It's making me wonder what in this game actually IS a scumtell. I mean, I've found some pretty conclusive ones before in not-this-game, but this is making me feel like unless you have a specific instance where someone really slips up and does something stupid, all those things that people call scumtells are really just as easily town mistakes too. We're all paranoid about who's scum and who's not. (Well, except for the ones of us that are scum) It'd be totally possible for a townie to see someone do something, go "whoah scummy" and not realize that it's not that scummy because they've been doing it too. I recognize that I really don't want to think of Gurgi as scum, and I think that's bad. You shouldn't really feel that way about a player ever, especially on day one. But grar. I don't know. That paragraph had lots of "grar's" in it.

Kairio is worrying me a bit. He's been active, but not incredibly so. And his comment to vote ratio leans more to the vote side than other people's. But there's nothing about his actions that looks overtly scummy to me. He could in my mind very easily be either noobtown or noobscum. Neither would suprise me too much. At this point in the game, I wish I had a better feel on him than I do. Kairio, I'd really appreciate it if you could give us a run down of some of your opinions currently, so that we have something to go on on you, and something else to think about with the other players in this thread.

On Brandi, I'm not really sure what I think either. She posts a lot, but I do kind of see what Gurgi was getting at with the noncommital word choice. I don't think that she's avoiding agreeing or disagreeing with someone. She voices strong opinions. But it does make her posts hard to read sometimes. I think I'll have to see her post more to get a good read on her.

I like Jahudo's posting style. Lots of talking, lots of logic. I think I'll need to see more though before I form an opinion.

It frustrates me that I don't have any kind of real clear suspicions yet. I feel like everyone in this game is either playing well or has a good excuse for whatever mistakes they make. When I have time, and more posts from the new players, I think I'll just have to go back to the beginning and look for inconsistencies and whatnot.

[Brandi]

The definition wasn't directed at anyone specifically, so don't take it as me trying to correct you on anything. It was for everyone and myself.


SOA, its hard to tell. Sometimes people genuinely agree, sometimes people are just bandwagon hoppers. <_<

Honestly I just like to say what I think and feel, and I try my best to be helpful to the town. It may be hard to tell now, but I'm sure a time will pop up where my dedication shows.


Sorry for not quoting anything, Im in a hurry!

[Jahudo]

Is it necessarily scummy to vote for someone for the same reason as someone else has? I notice this is something that newbies do a lot, town and scum. I mean, does each person have to come up with an individual reason to think someone is scummy?

Here's my take because I think it's possible for two townies to vote for the same reason but it's also easy for a scum to hop on another player just for an excuse to vote.

It would be easy for a scum to follow someone else's suspicions and say "I agree 100% and here's my vote" because it might be harder to find scum-tells in someone you know is town, and you aren't singled out for a bad suspicion point if it's defended well. Conversely, the town should be honest and say where they agree and disagree. If two or more town think the same point is a good tell, they should work it out. But it's even better when you try and look at a person from various angles to see townie and/or scummy reads.

---------------------
My #1 suspect right now is Kairio and the more days that pass by the more I think he's either flaked or is scum and in hiding. Maybe it's real life things but whaddaya gonna do?

My questions and arguements agaisnt him are in post 120 and 153. He hasn't responded to these. His last post was on July 31 (ten days ago) just after I replaced into the game and posted that long, long post. In that same post he said:

Alright, everybody. When you don't post, the game isn't fun. If you're not going to post, ask to be replaced, because those of us who are active would like this game to be as entertaining and fun as possible, because that's why we're here lol.

My next post in this game was then directed at him with mild suspicions.

Now why would he say this above quote which seems to come from an active and slightly anxious player, but he hasn’t said a word since? Has he flaked? Is he scum and doesn’t want me to investigate him? Does anyone see other possibilities or lean towards one of the two?

[Crub]

Eighth Vote Count of Day 1

Malyss (2):

Lord Gurgi, Kairio

SecretAgentOrange (1):

OhGodMyLife

Lord Gurgi (1):

Vir4030

Kairio (1):

Jahudo

Not Voting (4):

SecretAgentOrange, Malyss, Xolani, Brandi

Replacing: OhGodMyLife, Kairio

Sorry for not being around the last few days guys life got real busy all of a sudden for me. Anyway the replacements are in motion and <3 Brandi for leading the way picking up the activity!

[Jahudo]

Crub: I changed my vote to Kairio back in post 153. It was in between pharagraphs, sorry.

Fixed - Crub

But since he's being replaced I'll have to consider if he flaked.

[Crub]

MarkBG replaces Kairio and
Battousai (IC) replaces OhGodMyLife Immediately.

[MarkBG]

Hey guys.

I'm replacing, just checking in.

I'm not at home right now but when I get back I'll try to read the thread and give my opinions asap.

Cheers.

[Malyss]

Wow. So, were now down to four original players. This is certainly becoming more and more challenging. Granted, it was close to impossible to get any sort of read on OGML given that he was not very active and mainly made posts promising to post more when he got the chance. Kairio was odd with his wanting players to post more frequently to make the game more fun, while on the other hand...his posting was infrequent. Shame that he disappeared just when some good questions were being directed his way.

Welcome to the new players.

[MarkBG]

Ok, I've been through the thread up to post 110 (I don't have any more time right now.) and am analysing each individual player one by one, to try to come up with a conclusion, or at least some sort of suspicion. I think that's probably the best way - this is my first game so I'm just trying to give you all my current opinion.

Apologies if it jumps around a bit, but it's hard to catch up this late on.

SecretAgentOrange

Post 42:

In perhaps her first real telling post, SAO asks Malyss about the options which he is "reconsidering". This interest in another person's thoughts to me is very townie - getting people to speak their mind is all the town have, and encouraging this, to me, is a townie thing to do.

Post 46 & 48:

I'm going to have to agree with you there, Lord Gurgi.

Unvote Katie; Vote: OGML

IC's shouldn't be lurking, and with so little to go on at this point in the game, I don't think there's a better place I could put my vote right now.

As OGML says, Going, "what he said" and dropping a vote is slightly scummy, but here IMO it is again trying to evoke a reaction from OGML, which she gets in the end, as she says in Post 48 when she Unvotes. At this point, SAO seems town as well, but is not totally off the hook as the reason for voting wasn't that great and it was a pretty "go with the flow" vote.

Post 53:

An angry response from OGML's accusation of her being scum. She carefully explains her reasons for voting but does appear a little desperate and this could be seen as scummy. She re-places her vote on OGML, claiming his lurking behaviour and lack of attempt to defend himself is worthy of her vote. As true as this is, I think her vote is more cast on the fact that OGML is accusing her and she wants to rid herself of him, which indeed is far more scummy than the reason she gives. In the end, again, either is likely, but the desperation in this post is quite clear to see.

Post 58:

Again a desperate reply, but in my eyes a well explained, well thought out reply, despite the rush to work that she had that day. SAO has been active throughout so far, and her eagerness can only be seen as good. As Malyss points out in #61, she could just be wanting to last out N1, which she has not been able to do before. If so, this is a huge towntell - if she was scum, she would already know that she was going to last out N1, providing she survived D1, so her desperation to appear innocent could simply mean that she is innocent.

Post 60:

A very reasonable response. "Being new, when told by a more experienced member that someone is lurking, the newbie is inclined to believe them" is the general jist here, and this is fair enough. Not completely off the hook yet though, because this defensive post could all be a load of old tripe for all we know.

Post 71:

Switches to scumhunting. Perhaps covering for her own scummyness? In any case, scumhunting is useful to the town, but again she could only be doing it simply because she is unable to defend herself any longer. Time will tell.

Jahudo (Alurin)

Post 11:

Alurin's L-3 vote for Vir4030 did spark a reaction from Vir and could be seen as potentially scummy, but from what I've browsed upon, this is probably just putting a bit more pressure on Vir to see what kind of reaction he would give.

Post 36:

Alurin unvotes Vir, satisfied with his response. This is a very townie reaction, IMO, and the impression I get so far of Alurin he is pretty innocent.

Post 68:

Alurin quizzes the town on a head-to-head "Who is the scummiest" format. This is very town, evoking discussion between all the townsfolk, as discussion is all the town have.

Malyss

Post 23:

Malyss is the first to take someone to L-2, voting for Vir. She gives a random reason but her motive is probably to force another reaction from Vir, because the knowledge of inexperience could lead to pressure being piled high to evoke an obvious scumtell. This seems townie to me, but could be seen as scummy too, as she is setting up a potentially quick hammer.

Post 33:

We learn that this too is Malyss' first game, and so you wouldn't perhaps expect a newbie to be thinking so deeply as to L-2 someone to evoke a reaction, but it could be. Nevertheless, newbie-ness should be taken into account as reactions are very different from those of experienced players.

Post 50:

Malyss revotes Vir, claiming that he is "too-town" at the start. This hadn't occured to me at all and so this seems to be reading into things a litte bit too much, however it seems like a genuine town vote which has had a lot of consideration put into it, and Malyss seems to be generally helping the town.

Post 70:

Malyss is extremely reasonable when comparing who the scummiest people are. This indicates to me that he is town, wanting to examine very closely who the main suspects are, and not jumping on various bandwagons, instead wanting to think carefully through the process. I like him, and he is looking very town atm.

Post 103:

Analyses herself after coming under a lot of fire. IMO, Malyss doesn't appear scummy at all, and this suscipion isn't very well founded. At L-2, she appears well balanced and not desperate, and this is a good reading in my eyes.

Vir4030

Post 16:

Reactions to a second vote seem potentially a lot more interesting than another random 1-vote.

/in before "Alurin is scum for trying to start a bandwagon"

Maybe it's because I'm the target, but this seems scummy to me. There were two other people who had 1-votes on them who hadn't posted yet. If Alurin was looking for reactions to a second vote, they would have been better choices.

I'm not sure what to make of calling himself scum. I don't see why town would ever want to do that.

The first real reaction from a vote - and this early on, it seems a bit defensive, and leads me to believe that it's a very early scumtell. However, to avoid being over-analytical, it could also just as well be a counter-attack at Alurin to see his reaction - neither possibilities are more likely than the other right now, though it is an interesting response.

Indeed:

you seem to be a little overly defensive here, but I think I'd prefer to chalk that up as in line with your initial reluctance to random vote in the beginning and not as a scumtell.

Post 18:

We learn that it is Vir's first forum game, and being new myself, I can understand this. However, potentially this already creates two different scenarios:

a) Vir is town, but with a lack of experience reacts very defensively when the slightest pressure is placed on him, because he doesn't want to seem scummy, but in the end creates an impression of the exact opposite.

b) Vir is scum, and when accused, panics, and a lack of experience leads to a hurried response to try to shift the blame somewhere else - his questioning of Alurin's response.

Again, either is equally likely at this stage, but early on it is Vir giving away the most about himself.

Post 107:

After feeling a neutral read of Vir for a while, taking in his posts, this vote of yet another player does seem bad. His voting has been a bit wishy-washy of late and this leads me to suspect that he doesn't really care who gets lynched, as long as it's someone. That = Scum. However, he

does

say that he would prefer it if Malyss wasn't lynched just yet, although this could just be an attempt to appear to be helping the town.

Xolani (MiniKold/Avangor)

Post 84:

I get nothing until MiniKold arrives. Avangor lurks probably because he's not particularly into the game and so this is a null-tell. However, MiniKold random votes on page 4, claims he has "nothing to do" and sit back to watch the ride. To me, this reeks of scum. Such a laid back attitude in Day 1 is really not helpful to the village, he doesn't appear to go over the thread to identify any of his own suspicions, perhaps because he knows he will be able to kill in N1? Scummy reading as MiniKold enters the fray.

Post 88:

Malyss, my move would seem scummy, but being as it IS the first day, and no one really has ANY idea of what people are, scum or town. If my hardly reasoned vote would have been on day 3 or 4, then that might be a better judgement.

I disagree. On page 4 there is a lot to go on, and here I just believe MiniKold is avoiding placing a serious vote someone, risking retribution and questioning. He seems to be quite a new player, and so avoiding questioning is tactical because if he is scum (which I suspect he may be) then in his responses he could make a few mistakes and give away some blatant scumtells.

Brandi (Katie)

Battousai (OhGodMyLife)

Post 44:

Gurgi identifies that OGML is lurking and votes for him. Being an IC, apparently, means you shouldn't lurk and I agree, as lurking is often very scummy. SAO L-3's OGML, which provokes a reaction.

Post 47:

OGML claims that the bandwagon isn't very cleverly thought on, then admits there isn't much to go on in the thread. He then accuses SAO of being scum for following the leader, as it were. It does seem a little scummy to me, but is fair enough.

Post 52:

OGML accuses SAO of being scum because although she says she takes issue with his post, she unvotes anyway. This is odd - despite the withdrawal of a vote, OGML still takes a stand against SAO, and I'm not quite sure what to make of this atm. OGML seems to be quite difficult to read.

Lord Gurgi

Post 37:

Unvote; Vote: Katie

Just because.

As Vir points out in the following post, the game has possibly continued beyond the random voting stage, and this jerk reaction from Gurgi is a little strange. Voting someone "just because" on Page 2 is an interesting one, especially when people have been posting enough to give away little things to be able to go on. This seems scummy to me.

Post 41:

I usually stick to the random voting, until something better comes along, like a slip up, or someone is just too defensive.

He defends himself, perhaps honestly, and his reasoning is fairly sound. Off the hook for now?

Post 56:

Identifies a contradiction with SAO's early posting. His reasoning is again sound and seems very helpful to town. As of now, I see Gurgi as town through and through - he seems to want to create discussion by voting inactives and questions the whole town about SAO's responses. Seems town.

Post 110:

Jumps on Vir's back for attempting to "mod the game". Seems to be a slightly exaggerated reaction and could appear scummy.

*****

From what I've read up so far, here's the Scumm-o-meter for you.

SecretAgentOrange is around about a 6.5. She might have appeared scummy to some at first, but in my eyes was never really a major suspect, she was more attempting to create conversation in the game.

Alurin (now Jahudo) is about a 1. He is definitely town from what I've seen, though I haven't read the thread through completely so of course things may arise.

Malyss, I have always felt, is town. He seems very calculated and thoughtful, and this is good for the town - a reasoned decision must be made rather than a hurried decision based on little or no evidence.

Vir is about an 8, but not enough for me to vote for him. This is mainly to do with his wishy-washy voting, but I am yet unsure as to whether this is because he is a new player or simply doesn't care who gets lynched. I am interested to see what else comes up in the recap of the second half.

Despite not getting much until MiniKold entered the game, I think the player who is now Xolani is the most likely to be scum, at about a 9. Mainly due to the random voting on page 4, and there being absolutely no attempt to analyse the characters so far. His laid-back attitude reeks of scum.

I get nothing so far from Katie, and I haven't read up to her replacement yet.

OhGodMyLife had some interesting views, but I put him at about a 4, because he didn't really contribute all that much and is tough to read.

Lord Gurgi is around a 7. Has dithered in my mind between scummy and town, and I am yet to decide.



Will try to respond again asap.

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm a little confused about your scale. If that's a 1-10 I would think an 8 would be near positive, and a 1 would be, a little clarification would be wonderful.

[SecretAgentOrange]

Welcome to the game, MarkBG. I always love to see giant posts I really appreciate that you've started your analysis at the beginning. I think this is really helpful.

On your opinions:
Of me: You said that I was being scummy and overdefensive, and then when I stop defending myself it's because I'm covering up my scumminess and "can no longer defend myself". Which one is it? I've made it clear that I'll answer any questions in relation to my behavior in the beginning of the game. If you have any, I'll be happy to do so. But again, I think people are getting sick to death of me continually defending myself on that topic. So I'm not going to go through again and explain all that crap. I'll let time tell

Of Alurin/Jahudo:
You seem to be thoroughly convinced that Alurin is town because he asks people who they think are scummy and because he unvotes someone. I mean, I'll definitely say that there's nothing scummy about that, but does it really deserve an unquestioned town vote?

Of Malyss:
I think I'll talk to you about Malyss when you've gotten through the later part of the thread. A lot of what we talked about in regards to her was the nature of her early voting etc etc. So I'm not going to bother correcting on that stuff. But in general, I'm getting what your saying on a lot of it and it looks good to me.

Of Vir:
What you're saying about Vir has some weight. Early on, he's defensive, but it's easily chalked up to newness. If I remember correctly, Vir did more playing of mafia in real time. In those situations, people seem to take votes a lot more seriously than they do in forum mafia. It's harder to keep track of votes so people are more likely to only vote with firm suspicions, rather than to put pressure on someone. That's a third alternative for why he was stressed out there. But then again, it could be stressing him out because he's scum as much as that it's stressing him out because he's town. I don't really know what to think on the wishy washitude. I do that sometimes. I think it's a nulltell for me. Could be so for Vir. But it might not be. Who knows.

On Xolani/MiniKold/Avangor:
At the time, I thought MiniKold was acting way scummy. But it's hard for any of that to hold up. He became inactive before he could ever defend himself. We really don't know. As much as it sucks, I think we're going to have to ignore everything MiniKold did and just go on what's up with his replacement.

On Battousai/OGML:
The reason I think that IC's shouldn't lurk is not so much because it's scummy, but because they need to be there to answer noob questions and such. And if theoretically one of the IC's was lurking leaving one on their own, and some player gets in an argument with them about game rules/theory, there isn't anyone there to back them up and the noobs get all confused. But yeah. OGML was tough to read, and I think that the most we can get out of him is analyzing his posts in the context of Battousai's behavior.

On Gurgi:
I'm wondering what little things you've found to go on that early in the thread. I didn't mean that to be snarky or anything. I just didn't see any. I interpreted Gurgi's vote on Katie as a gambit, trying to elicit a response by putting someone at a high vote count. It seemed to me in line with his later OGML-is-lurking gambit. I could be totally wrong though. I do see what you mean about Gurgi sometimes having over exaggerated reactions.

Overall, good post I'd like to see more from you.

To the others who posted before, Brandi, gotcha on that. I think just saying what you think is a good thing. The only thing that gets me confused is when someone says "X kind of looks like a scummy thing to do but I see how Y could be seen as a town action." I think they're saying X is scummy but Y is not. When really they mean they're both scummy, but Y is not as scummy. When you use a lot of words like "sort of" or "could be" or "possibly" it's sometimes hard to tell what your opinions are on some things in relationship to other things But I could be kind of possibly guilty of that too

Jahudo, I see what you mean on scum bandwagoning and on Kairio. He was being super lurky. But, as with OGML and MiniKold, he went inactive, which to me could indicate real life issues coming in. It's frustrating and makes it hard to get a read. I mean, I don't know how much Kairio's behavior should be taken into consideration when talking about MarkBG. RAR REPLACEMENTS.

Any suggestions on how we should deal with analysis on replacement players, everyone?

[Brandi]

OMG MARK U SKIPPED ME. ILL NEVAR FORGEEVE U.

Just kidding. Welcome to the game where everyone ends up getting replaced! (Hopefully that doesn't REALLY happen D:)

[MarkBG]

Results day today guys, so I'll either be out celebrating all day or out drowning my sorrows.

Hopefully the former.

Either way, I won't be all that active until Friday I'm afraid. I'll try to complete my analysis then, as well as answering all your questions.

[Malyss]

Avangor ----> Minikold ----> Xolani

No one in this player slot has been terribly communicative so far.

Avangor made 2 posts. One was an OMGUS to Katie & a compliment on her name and the other was a declaration that this was Avangor’s 5th game, counting ongoing games.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
In MiniKold’s first post, he announced his presence and stated:

Avangor already voted so I got nothing to do for a little while. :X

I questioned him on his having nothing to do for a while and he responded:

Well, I've played before, so I know what to do, and I'm not really seeing grounds for the vote on Katie.

Unvote: Katie

Vote: Alurin (I took out the bolds to avoid potentially confusing the mod.)

For voting for the person I replaced.

Being new to the game and various dynamics, I tried applying some logic in post 87 where I tried to learn more about when an OMGUS is scummy or not.

The response from MiniKold was:

Malyss, my move would seem scummy, but being as it IS the first day, and no one really has ANY idea of what people are, scum or town. If my hardly reasoned vote would have been on day 3 or 4, then that might be a better judgement.

Vir also tried to engage MiniKold to find out if he’d read the thread and what his thoughts were on who the top 3 scummiest players seemed to be. In post 90, SAO encourages MiniKold to get to scumhunting pronto.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
On August 7th, Xolani came in as the replacement for MiniKold and stated that he planned to do a full read and then we’d hear more from him. We heard from Xolani again on the 9th:

Ok, so after reading through the thread:

Firstly I'm not comfortable with my predecessor's vote.

Secondly, Malyss seems a bit scummier to me but I'm not prepared to vote yet.

Unvote Jahudo

FOS: Malyss

- - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - -
The posts from this player spot have not given the town much to go on. Other replacement players such as Brandi, Jahudo and MarkBG have come in, given us evidence that they’ve perused the thread thus far and have offered their thoughts on the game. Granted, their interaction does not automatically grant them a pro-town card, but their posts give other players more to go on and more perspectives on the game.

Granted, I am not asking for a page by page analysis of what has occurred thus far. I just want to know more about what is going on in the heads of other players.

For Xolani: Why are you not comfortable with your predecessor’s vote? Albeit, you do not know MiniKold’s reasoning for making his vote, but could you tell us more about why you are uncomfortable with the vote he made against Jahudo?

At the risk of sounding defensive against your FOS, I’ll inquire as to what makes me, Malyss seem scummier to you?

I’ve atoned for not immediately stating that my first vote against Vir3040 was not a random vote, but a gut reaction to post 5. I tend to question my instincts and at the time, was not comfortable stating the direct reason for my vote. Back around post 46, SAO addressed my vagueness in my posts. I took this to heart and as I warmed to the game, my posts became more thought out and hopefully more useful/informative.

[Jahudo]

Nice post Mark. I like that you give opinions in many areas, some have been done before while others I think were more original. I'm also wondering about your scale though, because surely it will change once you read the replacements posts and are caught up. But your instant participation makes me want to

unvote

And I can't wait to hear the rest of your analysis, and also from Battousai when they check in.

Malyss: I see what you mean. It's been about 5 days since Xolani last posted and he hasn't really posted anything either. All three players in that slot have looked suspicious purely based on their inactivity, which is hurting this game because it's easy to want a lynch. Otherwise it's a slot that won't help us scumhunt and would only hinder us more tomorrow. But maybe Xolani will break the mold before he's replaced.

[Battousai]

Sorry guys, couldn't get on until tonight, so I'll finish rereading (half way through) in the morning before I leave and leave my thoughts.

[Vir4030]

Post 107:

After feeling a neutral read of Vir for a while, taking in his posts, this vote of yet another player does seem bad. His voting has been a bit wishy-washy of late and this leads me to suspect that he doesn't really care who gets lynched, as long as it's someone. That = Scum. However, he

does

say that he would prefer it if Malyss wasn't lynched just yet, although this could just be an attempt to appear to be helping the town.

"this vote of yet another player"? I've only voted twice. I voted for Malyss and then for Lord Gurgi. I have suspected others, and have questioned scummy behavior when I saw it. But I'm not sure what's wishy-washy about my voting. It's not like I've voted for five different people.

[MarkBG]

Ok, firstly I did very well in my results so it's all good, I didn't have to end up drowning my sorrows too much so I'm not feeling too ill this morning.

I'm gonna answer the questions directed at me first, and then in the following post I'll continue with my analysis.

The scale goes from 0 being not scummy at all to 10 being definite scum. So the higher the number the more I am suspicious.

SAO - saying you were "unable to defend yourself" was suggesting that you switched from a defensive attitude to an offensive scumhunting attitude simply because your defensive methods weren't working and were instead possibly creating more suspicion upon yourself, which no-one wants.

I'm not saying Alurin is unquestionably town, but that's the read I get from him at the moment.

On Vir, to be honest, despite my impression that he is scummy, the tells I have used for this could, like you say, be purely nulltells. This is my first game and thus am inexperienced when it comes to identifying what is a tell and what isn't.

Obviously, I'll analyse the others starting soon - probably finishing in about an hour or so

Vir - sorry, I miscounted

[MarkBG]

OK, I've finished reading back through the thread and here are my thoughts on the second half of Day 1.

SecretAgentOrange

Post 115:

A very significant post in my eyes. First she unvotes MiniKold - a fair reaction to his inactivity. Then she continues to "talk to" Malyss, debating her scumminess and in doing so, in my eyes seeming to be a lot more townie than I perhaps first thought, though questions have not been asked of her for a while.

Jahudo (Alurin)

Post 113:

Jahudo enters the game with a lovely nice juicy Wall O' Text (is that trademarked now...?) He makes some very good points and this further confirms my suspicions that he is town, what with his seemingly natural reaction to help the town.

Post 138:

Further townifies his personality with another reasoned post, analysing and aiding the town but not voting prematurely.

Malyss

Post 115:

SAO's post analyses a lot about Malyss, and despite my certainty that Malyss is town, this post does throw into question a couple of my original townie scumtells.

I agree that Malyss is making a good honest effort to be helpful, and it is this that I have mainly based my townie vote upon until now.

However, SAO makes a very good point that he only seems to be properly analysing Vir activity, possibly because he doesn't like the pressure vote made against him and wants to counter-pressure Vir into perhaps removing the vote? As SAO says:

You've been very uncomfortable with Vir's vote on you, or anyone's suspicions of you.

And to me this could be telling.

Post 117:

Jahudo makes a good point that Malyss' uncomfortable-ness could be a result of his newbieness, rather than scumminess. I am inclined to agree -SAO's post two above this one had not thoroughly convinced me that Malyss is scum, particularly as I've had him down as townie for a long time.

Post 148:

Malyss again does a good analysis of a couple of people, indicating he is not as obsessed with Vir as some people first thought. Again appears townie to me.

Vir4030

I'm not getting anything much from Vir in the second half - he seems extremely neutral and non-commital for now, and I think as I keep track of the game as part of it I will be able to get a better read of him, as I could well have missed something in my readthrough.

Xolani (MiniKold/Avangor)

Post 169:

Ok, so after reading through the thread:

Firstly I'm not comfortable with my predecessor's vote.

Secondly, Malyss seems a bit scummier to me but I'm not prepared to vote yet.

Unvote Jahudo

FOS: Malyss

This further confirms my suspicions that these three characters in the game have been scummy from the word go. Yes, he withdraws a vote, but he gives no real analysis and remains fairly quiet, probably as to not arouse suspicion against him. This finger of suspicion against Malyss seems to be a bit bandwagon-y, despite it not actually being a vote, and seems to me as a bit careless and carefree.

Brandi (Katie)

Post 129:

Finally something to go on as Brandi enters the game immediately with a summary. I get the impression she is a new player and so this ought to be taken into account here.

Her analysis is again fair and reasoned, but her vote for Lord Gurgi does seem a little premature - she doesn't have bags of evidence against him and this does seem a little bit suspicious, but yet again the tactic may well be to add pressure on Lord Gurgi.

Post 139:

Her final couple of lines in this post:

A GOOD way to find scum through accusations is to use things that are TRUE to accuse someone. Some people will flip out if you point out even their least scummy of flaws.

A BAD way to 'find scum' is through deception. It causes the innocent to have negative attention drawn towards them.

This again leads me to think town. Brandi is not only aiding others in making their decisions, but also following her logic in reasoning for her vote, and this seems very honest and town.

Battousai (OhGodMyLife)

Post 121:

It might be a stab in the dark, but OGML's revelation that he had ended up on holiday with Malyss, and that he is definitely townie - perhaps this could be revealing a potential mafia pairing?

Post 165:

Jahudo notes that despite OGML posting on the site everyday recently, he hasn't contributed in this thread for a long while, and this is potentially scummy

Lord Gurgi

Post 131-134:

Brandi's four posts and her earlier vote for Lord Gurgi prompted me to take a closer look at LG's character and what we have learned from him so far. At originally a 7 in my head, having looked back I still can't find any stand out obvious tells that would prompt me to place a vote on him. However, I get a "feeling" that he could well be scum - partly due to his "I'm thinking, not lurking" excuse - but it would be hypocritical to place a vote purely on a feeling, and I do feel as though further analysis is necessary.

Post 142:

Gurgi's "trap-laying" suggestion is an interesting one, and this could be interpreted in two different ways:

a) The suggestion of laying traps for foolish (hint of newbie suggested here?) scum to fall into could be an honest, town tell. His "laying of traps" could be his own method of rooting out scum.

b) It does seem a little suspicious that he hasn't mentioned this until now. The idea of town is that you share everything with each other,

because discussion is all the town has

. He could well be scum, attempting merely here to defend himself against Brandi by changing the subject and beginning to go on the offensive. However, I do believe that if he had mentioned his trap-laying technique sooner, then the scum would have become more aware of it and taken precautions to avoid falling into those traps, thus nullifying the effect of these traps.

Post 157:

Vir raises the point that Gurgi has voted for 5 different people throughtout the game, something that in my (brief) experience seems to be a scumtell. Wishy-washy voting to me indicates a "whatever-just-lynch-anyone" attitude and this is not helpful to the town. If Gurgi does end up being scum, we should perhaps focus our attention on those who he didn't vote for in the end.

Post 177:

Malyss also raises the point that Gurgi has been hopping his vote around, despite he himself saying that Vir was doing the exact same thing. This does seem a little hypocritical and scummy, and is all adding up to form a general scummy view of Gurgi.

*****

So, currently here are my views:

Vir seems neutral, as does SAO. I get no strong tells from them right now and until more discussion is held, I'm not going to place a real opinion on them yet.

I think both Malyss and Jahudo are town. My reasons have been stated. Brandi also appears honest and pro-town, but I can't quite decide whether this is genuine or not.

Battousai has as yet contributed nothing, and OGML was quite hard to read so again I have no strong views.

This leaves Lord Gurgi and Xolani. I think Xolani and his predescessors are more scummy than Lord Gurgi - they have been quick to vote and content-less in posting, and this reeks of scum to me. Gurgi I have less of a strong opinion on, as sometimes I feel he is scum but sometimes he can be townie.

Thus:

VOTE: Xolani

FOS: Lord Gurgi

[Malyss]

MarkBG, it’s not a huge deal but you’ve been using the incorrect pronoun for me. I am not a he, but rather a she. Really, trust me on this. Thanks.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Vote: Xolani

If Xolani were to share with us some of his perceptions of various players and their play thus far, it would be quite helpful. As it stands, no one in his player slot has offered any substantial insight as to their thoughts on the game and has done nothing to assist the town in our scumhunt.

I do make my vote with some hesitation in my mind. Would scum really be so seemingly obvious, even in a newbie game? No one who has held this player slot has done anything to further the town’s investigation. Is it possible that all three players have been non-verbose, busy people? Or is this really an uncooperative scum slot?

Maybe an IC could offer some insight? How likely is it for a newbie scum player to stick out like a sore thumb like Xolani/Minikold/Avangor? In general, can we really perceive terse posts that lack explanation as to the reasoning behind them as being scum tells?

When Xolani posted, there were two votes on me. Xolani states that he finds me scummier but is not ready to vote yet and so instead casts a FOS in my direction. Xolani doesn’t offer any views on why he feels uncomfortable with their predecessor’s vote and unvotes Jahudo. Xolani states that he has read the thread, but offers no insight as to what he got out of reading it. Did he really take the time to give it a good reading? Or did he skim through, latch onto a few key things such as the suspicion that some had of me and decide to go with the flow and take a safer action than putting a third vote on me? Or maybe he noticed the suspicion of me, felt there was some merit in it and that prompted the FOS and he’ll later make a post that gives a good synopsis of his perception of the game and his thoughts about various players?