Mini 645 - Innocence Falls (Game Over)

[Jahudo]

I was hoping for something a little more in depth out of Tritch when he subbed in. He seemed to want to investigate nhat and Cass although he didn't elaborate beyond OMGUS. I figure if TPT was as scum as he acted then maybe we can eventually find Tritch scummy of independent reasons. But if Tritch doesn't post, then what?

Maybe nureins is right about being passive Tritch and not pressuring him to contribute right off the bat.

[habitang]

I just had a creatvie streak. That's all. I was just getting tired of coming up to dead ends all the time. Plus, aren't I allwoed to bring up topics that havn't been discussed?

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote Count

Tritch: (3) nhat, Cass, nureins
nureins: (1) Ythill
Simenon: (1) Andycyca
Ectomancer: (1) Tritch
Jahudo: (1) habitang
Matin: (1) Simenon


Not voting: Goatrevolt, Matin, Ectomancer, Jahudo

Goatrevolt, nhat, and Tritch have been prodded.

[Ythill]

No worries... it was poorly worded.

Basically, I'm wondering if people see nuriens' scummy behavior as null-n00b play. Or, more generally, I started to see that such is a possibility and I wanted others to weigh in on that topic.

After reading the nureins-only I find him a newbie. That theory about him being an experienced-player-but-first-time-scum doesn't make any sense. An experienced player would know a better approach to the game, both as scum and town (even more, if person X has been protown a long time, he knows how to think protown)

I think you've misunderstood what I meant originally. I didn't suggest that nuriens was an experienced player but first-time scum. I believe it was he who claimed minimal experience at one point, though I don't have time to look back at the moment to verify it.

I just chose poor wording to ask whether people believed that his suspicious play stems from inexperience alone. And, for the record, I'd still like to hear more folks' answers to that.

[nhat]

Lost track of time.

Anyways, I'm still waiting for Tritch to come and give his opinions on why he thinks that those voting for him are scummy. For now the vote stays.

As for the other players, I'm finding Habitang to be suspicious as all hell. Aside from Ythill's PBPA, it seems like Habitang is extremely certain about many things about the set-up and even proposed a no-lynch based on it. The storyline says that

perhaps

we have these roles, which is not definite. Also, his excuses for hopping on and off and onto Jahudo are lighter than Zippos. And I know this is a null tell, but please use a spell check or something before I break your fingers mob-style.

[nhat]

Oh yeah...

FoS - Habitang

[habitang]

Argh. I can see scum cheering at my stupidity. Yes I feel the heat of beign suspected by a lot of people. I can only ask that I be given benefit of the doubt, like really really give me benefit of the doubt.

Argh in a game like this, that is not a logical thing to request. But I am sick of being teh stupid player, I do try.

I will be useful to Town for as long as I live. Don't lynch me!

Yes I believe that was anotehr of my suicidal raves. Argh at my impatience. Argh that can't possibly be an excuse for scummy behaviour! Sorry eveyrone for me completely losing it again!

Honestly, can I redo with a clean slate? I wish I never posted anything now.

Not only am I going on a rave, I think that if I just let everything go, then maybe you will see me better.

Present emotion: OMGUS at lots of people! Especially myself. Argh. I want to vote Tritch to save my own ass but I think Tritch just lost it like a normal human being.
Also no1 seems to be suspecting Jahudo except me! Doesn't that say something about scum backing off? Read Jahudo's posts!!

please don't lynch me :(

[nhat]

Argh. I can see scum cheering at my stupidity. Yes I feel the heat of beign suspected by a lot of people. I can only ask that I be given benefit of the doubt, like really really give me benefit of the doubt.

Argh in a game like this, that is not a logical thing to request. But I am sick of being teh stupid player, I do try.

I will be useful to Town for as long as I live. Don't lynch me!

Yes I believe that was anotehr of my suicidal raves. Argh at my impatience. Argh that can't possibly be an excuse for scummy behaviour! Sorry eveyrone for me completely losing it again!

Honestly, can I redo with a clean slate? I wish I never posted anything now.

Not only am I going on a rave, I think that if I just let everything go, then maybe you will see me better.

Present emotion: OMGUS at lots of people! Especially myself. Argh. I want to vote Tritch to save my own ass but I think Tritch just lost it like a normal human being.
Also no1 seems to be suspecting Jahudo except me! Doesn't that say something about scum backing off? Read Jahudo's posts!!

please don't lynch me

That's a whole lot of flipping out for someone who has no votes on him. Let's change that!

unvote
vote - Habitang

[Simenon]

Argh. I can see scum cheering at my stupidity. Yes I feel the heat of beign suspected by a lot of people. I can only ask that I be given benefit of the doubt, like really really give me benefit of the doubt.

Argh in a game like this, that is not a logical thing to request. But I am sick of being teh stupid player, I do try.

I will be useful to Town for as long as I live. Don't lynch me!

Yes I believe that was anotehr of my suicidal raves. Argh at my impatience. Argh that can't possibly be an excuse for scummy behaviour! Sorry eveyrone for me completely losing it again!

Honestly, can I redo with a clean slate? I wish I never posted anything now.

Not only am I going on a rave, I think that if I just let everything go, then maybe you will see me better.

Present emotion: OMGUS at lots of people! Especially myself. Argh. I want to vote Tritch to save my own ass but I think Tritch just lost it like a normal human being.
Also no1 seems to be suspecting Jahudo except me! Doesn't that say something about scum backing off? Read Jahudo's posts!!

please don't lynch me

That's a whole lot of flipping out for someone who has no votes on him. Let's change that!

unvote
vote - Habitang

Agree. It sounds way too fake and it really doesn't fit the post at all.

Unvote Vote habitang

[Andycyca]

I think you've misunderstood what I meant originally. I didn't suggest that nuriens was an experienced player but first-time scum. I believe it was he who claimed minimal experience at one point, though I don't have time to look back at the moment to verify it.

I just chose poor wording to ask whether people believed that his suspicious play stems from inexperience alone. And, for the record, I'd still like to hear more folks' answers to that.

You didn't suggest it. It was habitang back in 260 I wanted to see exactly how is habitang arriving to such conclusion.

Argh. I can see scum cheering at my stupidity. Yes I feel the heat of beign suspected by a lot of people. I can only ask that I be given benefit of the doubt, like really really give me benefit of the doubt.

Argh in a game like this, that is not a logical thing to request. But I am sick of being teh stupid player, I do try.

I will be useful to Town for as long as I live. Don't lynch me!

Yes I believe that was anotehr of my suicidal raves. Argh at my impatience. Argh that can't possibly be an excuse for scummy behaviour! Sorry eveyrone for me completely losing it again!

Honestly, can I redo with a clean slate? I wish I never posted anything now.

Not only am I going on a rave, I think that if I just let everything go, then maybe you will see me better.

Present emotion: OMGUS at lots of people! Especially myself. Argh. I want to vote Tritch to save my own ass but I think Tritch just lost it like a normal human being.
Also no1 seems to be suspecting Jahudo except me! Doesn't that say something about scum backing off? Read Jahudo's posts!!

please don't lynch me

Unvote. Vote: habitang

Building a fake defense (against nothing in particular)
Such defense based on feelings (no evidence)
Confirmed OMGUS attitude (antitown)

I still want to hear SOMETHING from tritch.

[Cass]

Uhm, habitang, what are you trying to do?? You were not even under attack and you post some kind of dramatic desperate defense?

FoS Habitang

Not unvoting Tritch before he replies.

[Jahudo]

Yes I feel the heat of beign suspected by a lot of people. I can only ask that I be given benefit of the doubt, like really really give me benefit of the doubt.

What heat were you referring to? Besides not having any votes on back then, you do know how many votes it will take today to lynch? With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch unless I'm mistaken.

And once someone is at L-2 and L-1 every rational townie will discuss thoroughly because a fast hammer is scummy. You have no reason to act this way, but I'd like an explanation.

Also what benefit of the doubt? That you don't think before you type because you've said its stupidity? That you're inexperienced? That you're not experienced with your role?

Honestly, can I redo with a clean slate? I wish I never posted anything now.

Now it's much better to get everything out in the open and try to fix yourself up. Be honest and clearly outline your opinions of me and the rest. Maybe outline like nureins and Ythill did if you think I've been overlooked. I have nothing to hide, do you?

Not only am I going on a rave, I think that if I just let everything go, then maybe you will see me better.

This post certainly changed my position of you, yes.

Vote: habitang

[Goatrevolt]

Prod received, and I see a large number of votes piling on habitang. I am in the process of my reread now, and would very much appreciate if nobody lynches habitang before I have a chance to comment.

[Ythill]

Though habit is still a stated suspect of mine, I'm not liking this latest development at all.

One of the reasons I've been reluctant to pursue him was the dynamic involving nuriens + Cass + habit. I was grilling nuriens but had also listed alternate suspects. Cass asked for a secondary case and, after I turned my guns on habit... you see what's developed.

I don't buy a lot of the reactions to his latest post. It was an unnecesarry appeal to emotion, yes, but he's done this before, just not so explicitly. The added intensity seems to have naturally developed from the increased number of arguments against him.

Nor do I see how the post could possibly serve his purposes as scum.

Nhat's "case" on habit is pointless. It's clearly possible, even probable, that habit misread the flavor. And this wagon has grown too quickly for my liking. I'm especially suspicious of Cass' FoS here, because of the aforementioned dynamic and the way it allows her to push the wagon while avoiding cuplability in the vote count.

[Simenon]

I don't buy a lot of the reactions to his latest post. It was an unnecesarry appeal to emotion, yes, but he's done this before, just not so explicitly. The added intensity seems to have naturally developed from the increased number of arguments against him.

Oh come on. It was plain silly and unreal.

[nhat]

Nhat's "case" on habit is pointless. It's clearly possible, even probable, that habit misread the flavor.

You left out the part where he's jumped back on to Jahudo for the flimsiest of reasons.

[Goatrevolt]

I don't think Nureins is scum. This is his second game of mafia. For him as a scum player to play so out in the open and hope overwhelm the town with tons of huge lengthy posts into thinking he's townie would be a tough feat to pull off. None of his posts read to me as superficial or fake at all. I simply feel he is a legitimate townie who may be a bit overzealous in what he feels necessary to address or discuss.

I really dislike the recent push on Habitang, and a lot of those votes seem all too opportunistic. After reading through the thread, my top 3 suspects were Andycyca, Ectomancer, and Jahudo. I was somewhat suspicious of Ythill, mainly because I thought his top two targets of Nureins and Habitang were soft, easy targets, but his hesitance to jump on the Habitang wagon here gives me better vibes about him.

Confirmed OMGUS attitude (antitown)

He admitted to having OMGUS tendencies. What possibly self-serving reason would scum have to admit something anti-town like this? This screams to me as additional weak justification to hop aboard the wagon. "Well, he said his initial reaction was to want to OMGUS, and since OMGUS is a scum tell, I'll add it to the case."

Vote Andycyca

I need to catch up in other games, but I can certainly provide reasoning for my top 3 targets later on.

[Simenon]

I noticed you're leaving out Cass, Goat.

[Goatrevolt]

I noticed you're leaving out Cass, Goat.

Out of what?

[nureins]

I really dislike the recent push on Habitang, and a lot of those votes seem all too opportunistic. After reading through the thread, my top 3 suspects were Andycyca, Ectomancer, and Jahudo. I was somewhat suspicious of Ythill, mainly because I thought his top two targets of Nureins and Habitang were soft, easy targets, but his hesitance to jump on the Habitang wagon here gives me better vibes about him.

I agree in the basics. I find Habitang partially suspicious, though I relaxed these suspicions due to Cass' first arguments (his previous game with her shows the same kind of erratic and poor playstyle). The latter participations showed his need of fast posting-voting, which can be understood as playstyle or as scummy in my view. So I fully understand that Cass Fossed him and voting him is also more or less correct. I agree with you about Ythill, and therefore I'm going to reread a little bit our tense debate. Maybe there was even more of tunnel vision in both sides than I arrived to believe.

However, I didnt understand your "Ectomancer"'s comment. That was strange to me, so I analyzed the votes to look for it. And seems it was a mistake, right ?

The votes on habitang were (with my opinions):

1. nhat. He started the wagon. Even if I do not share all the arguments, I respect the essence of the "attack", as I said that I also find Habitang up in my suspects and he had not received any vote or attention more than superficial.

2. Simenon (and not Ectomancer) ! He just said...oh, i agree with nhat, lets put pressure.

3. Andycyca. Also lot of quotes and agreement with the attack.

4. Jahudo. Jahudo's post is more reasoned, not hidding in the forest of posts. Moreover, Habitang was insisting too much on him with very strange posts, so I perfectly understand his reaction.

Definitely, I also find the attack a bit exagerated, though it will be useful to either listen a bit more about habitang or to calm down him if he is a nervous townie. I guess Goat pointed out to Simenon (and not Ectomancer), Andy and Jahudo in his post. In my view, I consider the latter of these (Jahudo) perfectly natural, and want Simenon and Andy to post longer ideas on why he just "agreed" with nhat in the description...instead of looking for their own motivated reasons...

[nureins]

I noticed you're leaving out Cass, Goat.

He didnt. Cass Fossed Habitang, but she didnt vote him...

[Goatrevolt]

My top 3 suspects are not necessarily those voting for habitang, which seems to be a point of confusion. Not everyone who voted (or FoSed) habitang was in my top 3, and my top 3 is not exclusive to only those on his wagon.

Jahudo's reaction was not a surprise based on habitang's pushing of him all game, but that doesn't make it justified.

[nureins]

My top 3 suspects are not necessarily those voting for habitang, which seems to be a point of confusion.

Perfect. Then my previous post remains as my opinion on habitang voters, and Ill comment more on your 3 suspects when you elaborate.

Jahudo's reaction was not a surprise based on habitang's pushing of him all game, but that doesn't make it justified.

Im not trying to defend him, so let him to answer if it is justified or not. I just found it natural, and reading his vote-post, I havent found anything exagerated...of course, if the votes on habitang have been precipitated, I do not think all of them are equivalent, so I tried to expose my view...
Let's see if habitang's dance and your reflections make us to stop our lazy way

[Cass]

I usually FoS scummy posts or actions. And while habit's post was definitely scummy, and I can't see much wronmg with the votes it earned him, for out-of-game reasons it doesn't make me want to lynch him. I find his pushing of Jahudo strange, but I don't see what scum could hope to accomplish by something like that. I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt at least for this day.
Some of the votes on him could be opportunistic scum, but I wouldn't put money on it. I still feel worst about the lurkers in this game.

[Simenon]

I noticed you're leaving out Cass, Goat.

Out of what?

The opportunistic club. I don't see why that necessarily has to refer to voting.