Open 88 - Polygamist Mafia (Game Over) before 650

[Adel]

hrrmm, I do not have a handle on this game yet. Please be patient.

[OpposedForce]

Your logic onto me for posting filler can apply onto you so that's where your case on me fails.

And before anyone asks yes I do suspect Jebus in fact I have a few suspects at the moment that I've found suspicous. I'm not voting yet because I want discussion to further and see what everybody gives their take on.

Actually with less posts then you I have been pushing more people, both Jebus and you. While you have spoken ill about Jebus' plan, you did not really take any stance towards his alignment untill I more recently half forced you to. Looking back at your posts, you have taken no stance on anyone really, apart from a random on Caboose. Since then all you have done is disagreed, and when pressured, said Jebus was suspicious along with a few others. You still arent voting.

I also dont like your "I want other peoples opinions" reasoning for holding out on acting on any of your suspicions. If you have suspicions you act on them, you dont just keep them to yourself and modify them when everyone else has checked in. I would at least prefer to hear your LoS before other people start putting theirs out there if not even get a vote out of you, even though im pretty sure im going to get OMGUSed

Forced me to? I've had my suspicions before your posts hence why I disagreed with the whole random voting thing. I never directed the case on everybody because I wanted to see what others had to say about and if your going to come up with "I forced him to state he had suspicions" BS then I got nothing to say in my defense because that kind of logic is crap and your twisting around my words. I never stated that I wanted to "sit back and see other people's opinions" I said I wanted to see discussion further with MYSELF involving in it. Your twisting what I'm saying to put a crap case on me.

Vote:LlamaFluff

I'm risking this of being OMGUS but I have my reasons mainly with him pinning useless things on me like "I had a vote on caboose" when I initally forgot to unvote and him pretty much trying twisting around my words to make me look scummier.

[LlamaFluff]

Your logic onto me for posting filler can apply onto you so that's where your case on me fails.

And before anyone asks yes I do suspect Jebus in fact I have a few suspects at the moment that I've found suspicous. I'm not voting yet because I want discussion to further and see what everybody gives their take on.

Actually with less posts then you I have been pushing more people, both Jebus and you. While you have spoken ill about Jebus' plan, you did not really take any stance towards his alignment untill I more recently half forced you to. Looking back at your posts, you have taken no stance on anyone really, apart from a random on Caboose. Since then all you have done is disagreed, and when pressured, said Jebus was suspicious along with a few others. You still arent voting.

I also dont like your "I want other peoples opinions" reasoning for holding out on acting on any of your suspicions. If you have suspicions you act on them, you dont just keep them to yourself and modify them when everyone else has checked in. I would at least prefer to hear your LoS before other people start putting theirs out there if not even get a vote out of you, even though im pretty sure im going to get OMGUSed

Forced me to? I've had my suspicions before your posts hence why I disagreed with the whole random voting thing. I never directed the case on everybody because I wanted to see what others had to say about and if your going to come up with "I forced him to state he had suspicions" BS then I got nothing to say in my defense because that kind of logic is crap and your twisting around my words. I never stated that I wanted to "sit back and see other people's opinions" I said I wanted to see discussion further with MYSELF involving in it. Your twisting what I'm saying to put a crap case on me.

The point is you never gave any suspicions. If you wont say what they are how are you really going to get scum lynched? *spoiler* you arent. We arent all psychics here. I think that I did more or less push you into showing your suspicions though, up untill I started pressuring you the only thing you looked at as vaugely scummy was Jebus. That fact is a valid point against you, especially since you claim that you do have suspicions. I dont see any town reasons to keep them hidden.

Also the fact that you "refuse to vote untill discussion breaks out" doesnt sit well. It takes something to stimulate discussion and it looks like me pushing you did it. When you wait for others to control discussion you just go along with the ride or have to fight the direction, given that again you claim to of been suspect of a few players, I dont get how you dont push discussion on the players you suspect or even vote them. It may just be contrasting playstyles, but not voting a suspect doesnt make sense to me.

[OpposedForce]

The point is you never gave any suspicions. If you wont say what they are how are you really going to get scum lynched? *spoiler* you arent. We arent all psychics here. I think that I did more or less push you into showing your suspicions though, up untill I started pressuring you the only thing you looked at as vaugely scummy was Jebus. That fact is a valid point against you, especially since you claim that you do have suspicions. I dont see any town reasons to keep them hidden.

Also the fact that you "refuse to vote untill discussion breaks out" doesnt sit well. It takes something to stimulate discussion and it looks like me pushing you did it. When you wait for others to control discussion you just go along with the ride or have to fight the direction, given that again you claim to of been suspect of a few players, I dont get how you dont push discussion on the players you suspect or even vote them. It may just be contrasting playstyles, but not voting a suspect doesnt make sense to me.

*just for the sake of space I'm only going to quote this section*

I'll explain this as the best as I can with this paragraph responding to your first paragraph. I have stated before that "you pushing me" is invalid on my list of suspicions. You keep stating that you pressuring me had made me come up with a quick response but I have had my suspicions on people and trying to formulate what kind of tells they have dropped. The reason why I haven't stated my suspicions is because I want to see where it goes in

"discussion"

meaning with discussion I can check back and see if my suspicions are justified. When I have enough evidence then I'll share them with the town. Showing them this early won't be as much use as it could be later in discussion. The only thing you seem to be pinning on me is the "I've pressured you into stating false things" which is untrue and this kind of logic will get you nowhere except trying to stubbornly prove that your right.

I have never stated that I would vote when discussion breaks out. This is yet another misinterpretation of what I meant. I'll state it again. I wanted people to discuss with myself included in the discussion in order for me to pick up tells or information on people. I never meant to "stay in the shadows and wait for a bandwagon to form to jump on" is pretty much what your trying to accuse me of. Your stating that I'll just wait for discussion to happen and that isn't true. I've already checked back and seen what has happened and tooken note of everything. This whole arguement with you will ironically spark discussion and that's how it gets going. You've misinterpretated me and pinned false logic on me and that's why I'm voting you.

[LlamaFluff]

The point is you never gave any suspicions. If you wont say what they are how are you really going to get scum lynched? *spoiler* you arent. We arent all psychics here. I think that I did more or less push you into showing your suspicions though, up untill I started pressuring you the only thing you looked at as vaugely scummy was Jebus. That fact is a valid point against you, especially since you claim that you do have suspicions. I dont see any town reasons to keep them hidden.

Also the fact that you "refuse to vote untill discussion breaks out" doesnt sit well. It takes something to stimulate discussion and it looks like me pushing you did it. When you wait for others to control discussion you just go along with the ride or have to fight the direction, given that again you claim to of been suspect of a few players, I dont get how you dont push discussion on the players you suspect or even vote them. It may just be contrasting playstyles, but not voting a suspect doesnt make sense to me.

I'll explain this as the best as I can with this paragraph responding to your first paragraph. I have stated before that "you pushing me" is invalid on my list of suspicions. You keep stating that you pressuring me had made me come up with a quick response but I have had my suspicions on people and trying to formulate what kind of tells they have dropped. The reason why I haven't stated my suspicions is because I want to see where it goes in "discussion" meaning with discussion I can check back and see if my suspicions are justified. When I have enough evidence then I'll share them with the town.

Showing them this early won't be as much use as it could be later in discussion.

The only thing you seem to be pinning on me is the "I've pressured you into stating false things" which is untrue and this kind of logic will get you nowhere except trying to stubbornly prove that your right.

First, I am increadably stubborn in this game, especially when I feel confident. Second, explain the bolded part to me as this is one of the main points im getting at as to why you are scum. I dont see why town would avoid putting out suspicion and trying to get their suspects lynched. You say that its because you get reads off them during discussion that you act on, but without giving us any suspicions you are able to jump any wagon you want as they could of been your top suspect. There is no trail of suspicion from you. When you pressure people with cases and votes you get better reads off them then general discussion from my experiance.

I have never stated that I would vote when discussion breaks out. This is yet another misinterpretation of what I meant. I'll state it again. I wanted people to discuss with myself included in the discussion in order for me to pick up tells or information on people. I never meant to "stay in the shadows and wait for a bandwagon to form to jump on" is pretty much what your trying to accuse me of. Your stating that I'll just wait for discussion to happen and that isn't true. I've already checked back and seen what has happened and tooken note of everything. This whole arguement with you will ironically spark discussion and that's how it gets going. You've misinterpretated me and pinned false logic on me and that's why I'm voting you.

Well I never saw you try to instigate any discussion. The last few things you mentioned before our little back-and-forth here was dice rolls and setup of the game. While "stay in the shadows and wait for a bandwagon" may be an overexaggeration, you also dont seem to want to take the role of "open discussion that leads to a lynch". Given that you are opposed to the dice roll, I dont get how you are opposed, or unwilling, to creating discussion. Where is everyone else though? OF and I are just yelling at eachother here and no one else is saying anything.

[OpposedForce]

First, I am increadably stubborn in this game, especially when I feel confident. Second, explain the bolded part to me as this is one of the main points im getting at as to why you are scum. I dont see why town would avoid putting out suspicion and trying to get their suspects lynched. You say that its because you get reads off them during discussion that you act on, but without giving us any suspicions you are able to jump any wagon you want as they could of been your top suspect. There is no trail of suspicion from you. When you pressure people with cases and votes you get better reads off them then general discussion from my experiance.

Well I never saw you try to instigate any discussion. The last few things you mentioned before our little back-and-forth here was dice rolls and setup of the game. While "stay in the shadows and wait for a bandwagon" may be an overexaggeration, you also dont seem to want to take the role of "open discussion that leads to a lynch". Given that you are opposed to the dice roll, I dont get how you are opposed, or unwilling, to creating discussion. Where is everyone else though? OF and I are just yelling at eachother here and no one else is saying anything.

*Once again just cutting down the post for space*
(This will correspond with paragraph one)
The section that you had bolded was supposed to mean that "I have suspicions but with further discussion the evidence of my suspicions will grow and then I can share it with the town and if I share them now it won't be as useful further in discussion" I do have suspicions yes but with discussion they can grow because as of now I don't have much to go on. Now you state that I'll bandwagon with stating false suspicions? This is complete nonsense. Your stating that I can just jump abroad a bandwagon to push a lynch? Now I see your just putting up scenarios to pin things on me. I'll state this one last time: "With discussion it'll help not only me but the town to decide a lynch" in other words with discussion it'll help decide a lynch with town consensus. Your assuming I won't put any of my own thoughts or opinions in and talk with the town about a lynch or activity and you also assume I won't pressure or build cases which is a complete utter misunderstanding and your trying to state of what I might do to pin blame on me which is foolish and scummy.

(This will correspond with paragraph 2)
Your putting posts of what I said past as me being incomptent and unwillingly to help town even though I haven't had time to get into full discussion. Your judging me from a few posts early within the day and your trying to grasp at scenarios here to accuse me of being useless and being scum. You've generally misinterpreted me and made up scenarios to pin blame on me. Your case on me as I can tell is full of holes and general lack of actual evidence (this is justified as all your stating is that I won't participate in lynches or discussion)

[LlamaFluff]

Im going to try and address specific points here, given that what each of us say seems to be identical each time, I think one of us is missing what the other is saying.

Your assuming I won't put any of my own thoughts or opinions in and talk with the town about a lynch or activity and you also assume I won't pressure or build cases which is a complete utter misunderstanding and your trying to state of what I might do to pin blame on me which is foolish and scummy.

I am not trying to push the fact that you wont participate or make a case directly. What I dont understand is that you claim that discussion helps you get a better read on people, but you didnt start discussion on a suspicion related topic. I dont understand why someone who gets reads of general discussion would not be the first one out the gate generating it. This playstyle makes it odd that you arent making a case or a discussion topic, so indirectly I think you look scummy for not doing those.

This really is my main point and what I have been saying over and over in different ways. You being a player that benifits from discussion and not quickly generating it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me, this is why I am pressuring you which ironically is generating discussion.

Hopefully I got my point across here, it seems we are both just grasping at shadows regarding what we are saying.

Does ANYONE else have something to say though?

[OpposedForce]

Im going to try and address specific points here, given that what each of us say seems to be identical each time, I think one of us is missing what the other is saying.

Your assuming I won't put any of my own thoughts or opinions in and talk with the town about a lynch or activity and you also assume I won't pressure or build cases which is a complete utter misunderstanding and your trying to state of what I might do to pin blame on me which is foolish and scummy.

I am not trying to push the fact that you wont participate or make a case directly. What I dont understand is that you claim that discussion helps you get a better read on people, but you didnt start discussion on a suspicion related topic. I dont understand why someone who gets reads of general discussion would not be the first one out the gate generating it.

This playstyle makes it odd that you arent making a case or a discussion topic, so indirectly I think you look scummy for not doing those.

This really is my main point and what I have been saying over and over in different ways. You being a player that benifits from discussion and not quickly generating it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me, this is why I am pressuring you which ironically is generating discussion.

Hopefully I got my point across here, it seems we are both just grasping at shadows regarding what we are saying.

Does ANYONE else have something to say though?

Your case and main point are not going to acheive anything. You've voted me for not generating discussion and you believe that I'm scum to just sit back and jump onto a bandwagon when the oppurtunity rises? Because that seems to be the case otherwise there would be no reason to vote me. Your case on me has been about:
-A random vote
-Not voting Jebus
-I haven't "contributed" much
You say that were just both "grasping at shadows" but I see that you've decided to twist my words during the arguement as well as making up mock scenarios such as me going to jump onto a bandwagon during discussion to pin blame on me as scum. I believe you just voted me to put a safe vote on to make it appear that you've caught scum but with your current case there's so much nonsense in it that I'm content with my vote on you.

I'll wait to see what others have to say.

[Xtoxm]

Vote Count

Zoolander (1) Jahudo
Farside22 (0)
The Pope's Tiara (0)
LlamaFluff (2) Farside22, OpposedForce
Goatrevolt (1) Caboose
Jahudo (1) Zoolander
OpposedForce (1) LlamaFluff
armlx (0)
Caboose (1) Goatrevolt
3fj (1) The Pope's Tiara
kloud1516 (2) Adel, 3fj
Adel (1) armlx

Not Voting (1) Kloud1516

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

[farside22]

Just a question for anyone and everyone. Do you think the scum know this game is nightless? I mean don't you think that would have been part of their talks before the day started?

[Jahudo]

Just a question for anyone and everyone. Do you think the scum know this game is nightless? I mean don't you think that would have been part of their talks before the day started?

Well if they didn't before then they'll know now
What is the advantage/disadvantage? Even without night we can reach lylo pretty quick, and without night kills to look at and try to find motives maybe we should look for a potential scum group defending or ignoring another group since one lynched scum means the other three die too.

I don't know how much opinion I can give to Llama and Opposed Force's back and forths. Maybe Llama is twisting that original post in question to get a different conclusion but I'm not sure. I gotta re-read.

I'm growing more concerned by those not posting, particularly the partner of Jebus who has had plenty reason to stay in the shadows. 3fj hasn't posted since his original random vote. Nothing game related since and definitely nothing when Jebus was being accused.

Vote: 3fj

[Xtoxm]

3fj and The Pope's Tiara have not posted within 72 hours of being prodded, i'll start looking for replacements now.

[farside22]

Just a question for anyone and everyone. Do you think the scum know this game is nightless? I mean don't you think that would have been part of their talks before the day started?

Well if they didn't before then they'll know now
What is the advantage/disadvantage? Even without night we can reach lylo pretty quick, and without night kills to look at and try to find motives maybe we should look for a potential scum group defending or ignoring another group since one lynched scum means the other three die too.

I don't know how much opinion I can give to Llama and Opposed Force's back and forths. Maybe Llama is twisting that original post in question to get a different conclusion but I'm not sure. I gotta re-read.

I'm growing more concerned by those not posting, particularly the partner of Jebus who has had plenty reason to stay in the shadows. 3fj hasn't posted since his original random vote. Nothing game related since and definitely nothing when Jebus was being accused.

Vote: 3fj

I asked because of the fight between Llama and OF. OF at one pointed stated he didn't know the game was nightless. I think that would have been something known by scum members during the pregame talks. I could be wrong.

[Goatrevolt]

I asked because of the fight between Llama and OF. OF at one pointed stated he didn't know the game was nightless. I think that would have been something known by scum members during the pregame talks. I could be wrong.

I would consider that a slight town tell even though I'd honestly expect everyone to know that, town or scum. The reason I would consider it a slight town tell is that town are focused on looking for scum, while scum are trying to find 2 mislynches. A townie forgetting the setup doesn't hurt them from finding scum, whereas scum probably are more mindful of the setup and exactly what they need to accomplish.

It's definitely nothing truly conclusive, but I think it's a good point.

[kloud1516]

A random lynch to start off, at least, can help kick-start something, anyway.

This quote makes me think he wanted a day 1 lynch without any furthur attempts to scumhunt. You would have to guess if kick-starting meant he was more open to scumhunting in day 2 or not. Like I previously said his idea was bad and scummy, standing up for himself and not slinking into the shadows gave me a little doubt, but now he's been replaced so how does that factor into adel now?

In my opinion, while Adel is a replacement, all reasons for suspecting Jebus are now reasons for suspecting Adel. The fact that Jebus is no longer present in the game doesn't mean that her suggestions and actions are any less suspicious, and I personally will be viewing her replacement in similar regards until given reason to do otherwise.

1) Yes, the quote does indeed make it seem as though Jebus wanted a Day 1 lynch without any further scumhunting, but seeing as how she has been replaced we shall not be able to know if this was the case or not. I do not advise dwelling on Jebus' intentions, as it will only detract from conversation at hand. This is not to say that looking back at Jebus' provided content is a bad thing, as it may provide clues/indication as to her and her partner's alignment later on down the road.

2) Once again, I still feel the fact that Jebus stuck up for her random voting suggestion neither refutes the possibility of her being scum nor provides reasoning that Jebus was pro-town. A scummy suggestion is going to continue to be a scummy suggestion, even if the person who suggested it defends it.

The random lynching plan isn't that great. In addition to the stuff I put on my cons list against it, there's also the idea that if we randomly lynch day 1 we may attempt to non-randomly lynch day 2, which could cause mayhem, and easily lower our chances of winning significantly. There are simply more reasons and more benefits to scum hunting and trying to actually find and eliminate scum that way.

I think Goat has made is clear that he wanted scumhunting before a lynch, regardless of how long and in-depth we go to make our choices. He also seems to be against the random lynch day 1 and scum-hunt day 2 but again

I can only guess what Jebus was thinking.

[/quote]

Addressing the bolded phrase above: Yes, this is all we can do: guess, but I would rather accumulate evidence against a person and make a reasonable case against them then go off of guesses.

Sorry for taking longer than I promised to get a post up. I have taken notice of the back-and-forth between LF and OF, but I feel that I will need to go over the content provided in their posts with more scrutiny before I even attempt to comment on it.

[kloud1516]

EBWOP ^^ * chants *Preview button=ally* ends chants*

The random lynching plan isn't that great. In addition to the stuff I put on my cons list against it, there's also the idea that if we randomly lynch day 1 we may attempt to non-randomly lynch day 2, which could cause mayhem, and easily lower our chances of winning significantly. There are simply more reasons and more benefits to scum hunting and trying to actually find and eliminate scum that way.

I think Goat has made is clear that he wanted scumhunting before a lynch, regardless of how long and in-depth we go to make our choices. He also seems to be against the random lynch day 1 and scum-hunt day 2 but again

I can only guess what Jebus was thinking.

Addressing the bolded phrase above: Yes, this is all we can do: guess, but I would rather accumulate evidence against a person and make a reasonable case against them then go off of guesses.

Sorry for taking longer than I promised to get a post up. I have taken notice of the back-and-forth between LF and OF, but I feel that I will need to go over the content provided in their posts with more scrutiny before I even attempt to comment on it.[/quote]

[Adel]

Day 1, you have a 1/3 shot of hitting scum by randomly lynching.

Day 2, you have a 2/5 shot of hitting scum by randomly lynching.

It's actually 2/5 day 1, since you can take out your own group, since you know yourself and partner.

The chance is actually better than you say.

A random lynch to start off, at least, can help kick-start something, anyway.

this really reads to me like the work of a newbie with 62 total game posts who doesn't quite understand the setup. What is scummy about a mistaken newbie having a horrible idea?

I understand the setup.

[Adel]

vote kloud

Because if everyone was on the same team... thats one big orgy. Amirite?

my lover's single post. defintely a sign of a genius scum plot to convince the town to random-lynch itself into extinction.

So who is responable for pushing a case that the two rawest newbies in the game were trying to get the town to adopt a fatal strategy?

[Zoolander]

Sry, had a short busy spell, I'll read back and post my thoughts here soon.

[OpposedForce]

Just a question for anyone and everyone. Do you think the scum know this game is nightless? I mean don't you think that would have been part of their talks before the day started?

Most likely they would discuss about the setup because with 4 of them total they'd have to look over everything and be careful not to be lynched because it'd all be over so I would suppose they took precautions with the setup and everything.

[OpposedForce]

Hello is anybody here?

[Xtoxm]

Caboose has not posted for 120 hours, and has been prodded.

[Xtoxm]

Guys, i'll be away for a few days next week - You should be fine without me, just a delayed votecount or two, and maybe an overdue prod.

[Jahudo]

vote kloud

Because if everyone was on the same team... thats one big orgy. Amirite?

my lover's single post. defintely a sign of a genius scum plot to convince the town to random-lynch itself into extinction.

So who is responable for pushing a case that the two rawest newbies in the game were trying to get the town to adopt a fatal strategy?

I don't know if anyone expressed that 3fj was scummy based on his random vote post. I voted for him because that was his only post so far and that maybe there was a chance to get him to come back before replacement, which does not seem to be the case. I guess maybe he flaked.

I'm interested to hear what Zoolander has been thinking since his filler post, although it looks like the Pope is also being replaced. I guess that's another raw newbie flaking?

[Caboose]

Sorry about the inactivity guys. I just had an RL issue come up. Give me some time to read please.