Mini Normal 2170: Stuff I’m Listening To [Game Over]

[MURDERCAT]

Moving my vote from someone with no votes to someone else to no votes is opportunistic?

I mean that's not exactly what's happening here.

Were you going to say anything else or..

Because that is a factual description of events, so if there is some important context you think matters please share with the class

[Gamma Emerald]

Moving my vote from someone with no votes to someone else to no votes is opportunistic?

I didn’t mean that as criticism of you

[MURDERCAT]

Moving my vote from someone with no votes to someone else to no votes is opportunistic?

I didn’t mean that as criticism of you

Even if not, it's still unclear what you mean by it

[Noraa]

Its opportunistic cuz the old wagon u were on died a long time ago. So it just looks like scum!murder looking for a new mislim target

[Noraa]

Sure both wagons have zero people. that's not the important part

[MURDERCAT]

Its opportunistic cuz the old wagon u were on died a long time ago. So it just looks like scum!murder looking for a new mislim target

I think other targets would make more sense especially if I'm legitimately worried about be elimed as scum but ok sure

[Gamma Emerald]

Moving my vote from someone with no votes to someone else to no votes is opportunistic?

I didn’t mean that as criticism of you

Even if not, it's still unclear what you mean by it

I didn’t particularly see anything wrong with Noraa’s reads, but if I did it wouldn’t be a stretch to vote there for it, Noraa hasn’t exactly responded well to pressure so even if I did or did not press her first I don’t imagine anything would have made it not feasible to vote her

[Noraa]

Its opportunistic cuz the old wagon u were on died a long time ago. So it just looks like scum!murder looking for a new mislim target

I think other targets would make more sense especially if I'm legitimately worried about be elimed as scum but ok sure

we are nowhere near limming anyone yet. why would the scums be worried? day 1 wagons literally go ~poof~ so fast you never even remember they existed most the time.

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like we’re digressing from the core of what matters here

[MURDERCAT]

I didn’t particularly see anything wrong with Noraa’s reads, but if I did it wouldn’t be a stretch to vote there for it, Noraa hasn’t exactly responded well to pressure so even if I did or did not press her first I don’t imagine anything would have made it not feasible to vote her

Ohh you are saying that if you were being opportunistic you'd have voted Noraa? I disagree because there is a wagon on me, but I think I understand what you are saying now at least

[UneducatedGuesser]

VOTE: OutWorldER along those lines, I just can't get on board with the reasoning there. I mean, he said Blitzo was troublesome to read so that's a wagon and ok, but acknowledging that you believe something is NAI and voting it anyway isn't for me.

I feel like you're contradicting yourself here? Yes, I did say my read on Blitzo was neutral at that time, but that I also felt he was going to troubling to read if we didn't try and figure him out early. So it felt like the most worthy early vote at the point in the game. Could you elaborate what exactly you find troublesome in that logic?

I don't like the idea of voting and wagoning based on an NAI premise. If he was active lurking and posting NAI stuff for a couple of days, then your case for obfuscation in 64 might have had merit instead of being something that you yourself said was minor and a stretch, and I might have been okay with it. If you had some real belief that Blitzo's early posts had a decent chance of actually being AI when forced into an exchange about them then I might have been okay with it. As such, I wasn't a fan of your part on the wagon.

That said, I'm far more comfortable with what I've seen from you since that wagon dissipated, and I'm getting a "I believe you believe it" vibe, so this might just be playstyle issues I'm having that are separate from actual reads.

UNVOTE:

This isn't reading like Noraa's town game thus far (I was in her completed town game that she referenced), but then, she was pretty strongly TRed from the jump by mostly everyone there. I know she gets mega defensive when challenged as scum though, based on reading her scum games from the outside. I have no idea if that's a scum-Noraa trait or always-Noraa trait to get into it like this when called out. (The wall stuff is an "always" trait, she was getting salty at me for posts, and I think I only wrote one the entire game that required scrolling.)

Murder still feels consistent here, he's attacking his reads and working his game from my perspective, still not buying the votes on him. If I were having to pick between the two for a vote Noraa would probably be the pick.

VOTE: Kasu instead though, I hate his defensiveness more than Noraa's.

[Noraa]

@Guesser

So far I have zero town games where I was SRed right off the bat.

[Noraa]

Tbh I don't think I'm that defensive but I can be pretty OMGUSy as town sometimes.

[Noraa]

No one should be SRing or TRing me off of meta at this point in time bc I've played on ms for only a month and my playstyle is still in a developing stage where it changes a lot from game to game even if my alignment is the same.

For example my first game I was a mafia goon in column b setup. Everyone said I was an amazing liar and really towny.
But then my second game I was a mafia goon in column b setup again. Everyone said I was way too scummy to be scum and the most antitown player they ever saw.

[Noraa]

My meta aorn is not reliable and changes around a lot. Not bc I manipulate it but because I'm still adjusting and changing my playstyle around to see what I like best.

[Gamma Emerald]

No one should be SRing or TRing me off of meta at this point in time bc I've played on ms for only a month and my playstyle is still in a developing stage where it changes a lot from game to game even if my alignment is the same.

For example my first game I was a mafia goon in column b setup. Everyone said I was an amazing liar and really towny.
But then my second game I was a mafia goon in column b setup again. Everyone said I was way too scummy to be scum and the most antitown player they ever saw.

My meta aorn is not reliable and changes around a lot. Not bc I manipulate it but because I'm still adjusting and changing my playstyle around to see what I like best.

This is very fair, a lot of early meta on players is impacted by what alignments they roll, I remember someone on my homesite rolling scum a whole lot and the first time he rolled town, he got scumread because his scumrange was so developed but no one knew his townrange. Once they have experience as both alignments and know what to do as each, that when meta can really start being a factor when reading them.

[The Bulge]

Murdercat gives me gut feelings of scum from the way he dismissed the growing wagon on him but I'll admit that's weak, which is I'm not voting him. I'd like a proper wagon on him sometime, but like I said, I'd rather have a wagon somebody who will be troublesome to read so we can figure them out early.

you cite a weak gutread here as a reason for not voting murdercat, but is that not what made you want to push blitzo?

part of the reason

is there any other specific reason you are not voting murdercat?

In that particular instance I decided it was better to try and pressure a slot I felt was hard to get a grasp on than push minor scumpings. I'm still in the midst of parsing the information I've gathered.

what's the difference this early in the game?

[The Bulge]

I've mostly liked Murdercat except for this:

{Thestatusquo}
{Panzerjager, PookyTheMagicalBear, The Bulge}
{Not_Mafia, Noraa, Kasumeat, duppin, OutWorldER, UneducatedGuesser}
{Gamma Emerald}
{Blitzo}

pedit: Was just about to post this for content but ok

I agree with the SRs but the TRs on Panzer and Pooky are bizarre. Panzer has just two RVS votes and Pooky has made nothing but no-content white noise posts. Why do you TR them?

at the time of this post, I had as little content as panzer and pooky. sure i'd posted more between murdercat's list and this post, but I struggle to see this as a genuine critique given that fact

I have mixed feelings on Outworld. I like what reads he's given so far, but his justification for them does indeed feel off. I would prefer Blitzo/a lurker/Pooky at this point.

I don't like this post, something about the pacing of it and how much time is spent talking about outworld rather than blitzo/pooky/whichever lurker kasu presumably had in mind. I know it's only a one-liner but eh

[The Bulge]

I didn't like this vote because it felt like you were trying to ramp up a wagon while still pretending to be a RVS vote.

There was discussion happening around this statement so you were either ignoring that discussion or werent interested in having it. You had already made your joke opening vote for trying to claim that you werent voting for real is a stretch to me, especially since there was already information out there. It just rings kind of fishy to me. The whole interaction reads kind of fishy to me.

Post 40 and 103 is more indication that its not a random vote, but they're harping lines of questioning that I was already having without adding anything additional of substance for something that literally the player would have had to decide to do pre-game, which I pointed out at the time.

Post 154 is basically just you reiterating that what you are suspecting blitzo for is not really alignment indicative.

Then after that you start harping on not active people, which brings us to your post 176 which basically says "I'm going to ignore all the content that has happened so far in the game I want to yeet the guy who has done the weird thing that is NAI or some lurker."

It doesn't add up to me. It just doesn't look like you're earnestly trying to find scum.

My initial vote on Blitzo was very clearly a joke. I didn't like Blitzo's reaction to it nor did pretty much anyone else in the game. 40 is me seeing if Blitzo has some sort of reasonable explanation for it, which he didn't give, so 103 is me making it clear that what was a joke vote is now a real one. As for not participating in the discussion at the time, I work in restaurants which means I'm not on a computer and I only have a minute here or there to phonepost when I'm working in the afternoons/evenings EST.

In 154 I'm saying that I'm torn between whether Blitzo's weirdness is NAI or scummy. So with one possibility making me null on him and the other making me SR him, in what fucking universe does that mean I should still be null on him? Because that's exactly what you're saying.

"You were trying to ramp up a wagon" is bullshit. Ramp up the wagon with literally nobody on it? There is no way that you honestly believe that I'm scum trying to lynch a townie with my case being built upon "Blitzo likes playing mafia" as the basis for the wagon. You're taking what was very clearly an RVS vote and saying "your case here is terrible" and using that as justification for SRing me? There is no fucking way that an experienced townie makes a read like yours on me.

VOTE: Shea

this is awful. blatantly misrepping shea in the last paragraph, and the whole leadup going from meticulously defending himself immediately to "you're scum for being so wrong" makes no sense to me. I mean if he's scum, why so paranoid on the defense? and if he's so incredibly off-base, why the need to address it so seriously?

[The Bulge]

There are several questions I have for 205.

Blitzo's post 34 is overly defensive to what I perceive as a joke from Kazu(can I call you that?) Overall an interesting slot but they are in my null for the time being.

You see Blitzo as overly defensive (which I agree with) but then go on to null them. Can you elaborate?

Duppins posts are giving me such strong town pings, I'm worried he's scum. in the slight scum reads he goes.

What on earth is this logic? "They seem towny, so I'm going to scumlean them"????????

Shea is .... meh null.

Can you go further into detail on your thoughts on TSQ?

I may end up switching votes here.

jumping right into the least consequential and easiest parts of the easiest post so far to pick apart

[The Bulge]

I meant for the claim thing. Didnt even read the whole sentence rip.
All I saw was "Pooky is ascetic peacemaker Noraa so role fishing is allowed now"

i know noraa gets paranoid but hmmmm

I can't read Shea aorn. His play style is one of those that I generally struggle to read just like Pooky and Not mafia. These take me a lot of time to get opinions on but I guarantee I'll probably be having at least leans before day 1 ends unless we end up with a flash wagon which I don't recommend.

shea's posting style isn't even a little bit like pooky or n_m, and I get you're saying he's null and hard to read, but you have other null reads that I feel would be a much better comparison here. so your comparison to two players who have a fairly established deliberately cloudy playstyle is reading to me like an excuse to not have to try and get a read on him. thoughts?

[The Bulge]

well he does not consider it lucky - i think he is quite upset he hasn't gotten to be scum yet lol

talk to me about this?

[The Bulge]

This last page and a half of gamma reads really earnest to me.

I agree, but be careful not to lean too hard into his flattery

[The Bulge]

would like a vc before i put a vote down

[Umlaut]

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