Mini 624 - Game Over!

[StrangerCoug]

Can anyone tell me what Cass claimed? I seem to have missed that somewhere.

I think she said she was a vanilla townie. The only power roles left seem to be the tracker, a probably naïve cop, and a scum roleblocker, and I believe there are still doubts that all three exist.

[Battousai]

If I'm a sane cop, then either SC or Wumbo is scum
If I'm naive cop, then ANYONE could be scum
If I'm scum, then NO ONE is scum (assuming 1 scum left)

So, if you think I'm a sane cop you would want to lynch SC or Wumbo. If you think I'm naive then you would want to lynch anyone. If we go with the latter, then you don't take into affect lynching one of the two people I did not investigate and instead go by game play. Right now if I go by naive cop, then I would vote for anyone besides Wumbo as I think he is town. I think DWS would have bussed him way too hard for that. Since there is a consensus both of us power roles should go into tonight I will unvote and vote the person I find scummiest.

Unvote, Vote: Cass

. There is a reason I investigated you. You really seemed to want to lynch Max D2 over DWS.

[Cass]

There is a reason I investigated you. You really seemed to want to lynch Max D2 over DWS.

In the beginning of the day, I did. Remember though, that at the time there wasn't any proof for multiple cops. If there's one dead cop and one claimed cop (and I had no further information), it makes sense not to trust the claimed cop immediately. Claiming a guilty on DWS would have been the easy choice for scum. We just got lucky that he was in fact the GF :p Also, I practically pushed DWS over the edge after I had thought things over for a while.

[Cass]

Also, Battousai, consider this: you are looking at day 2 from your own perspective. That perspective involved knowing

for a fact

that there were multiple cops. I'm a vanilla, how could I have known that? Few games have more than one cop, but scum falseclaiming cop is relatively common. From my perspective of things, the odds are different than they are from your perspective.

If we lynch Wumbo, and you check Stranger, you can at the very least confirm your (lack of) sanity. With some luck, Stranger can confirm himself too. We'll be in a good position then. (Even if I were scum :p )

[Litral]

I've re-considered the situation and my thoughts are still the same. Scumtell wise I would lynch Coug, but strategy wise I would lynch Wumbo. I prefer my strategic choice here; not so confident in my scumhunting abilities after I defended DWS... I've considered no-lynching, but I don't think there is any scenario under which I wouldn't just lynch Wumbo the day after.

So yeah, I feel like voting right now, but I want to see a vote count first.

[Litral]

I don't think DWS was bussing Wumbo too hard. He was just voting Wumbo for very little reason and then retracted his vote immediately.

Ah, but then again, wouldn't he have checked to see if he would've lynched his buddy? Because he really was ignorant of how many votes there were on Wumbo.

[StrangerCoug]

Ah, but then again, wouldn't he have checked to see if he would've lynched his buddy? Because he really was ignorant of how many votes there were on Wumbo.

Good point.

Dear God, this game is confusing... but it's still damn well interesting!

[Battousai]

Cass: Regardless of my role I would have voted DWS over Max. Who should you lynch, a claimed cop or his guility result on D2? The result, if he turned up innocent I would have lynched Max the next day if he was alive. I honestly don't think there is a good reason to lynch a claimed cop when you can confirm his role without taking the chance of mislynching a cop.

[Cass]

Cass: Regardless of my role I would have voted DWS over Max. Who should you lynch, a claimed cop or his guility result on D2? The result, if he turned up innocent I would have lynched Max the next day if he was alive. I honestly don't think there is a good reason to lynch a claimed cop when you can confirm his role without taking the chance of mislynching a cop.

Counterclaims are a good reason in many games - just not this one. I made the right decision in the end, so I have no regrets about that day.

[geraintm]

I went back and reread, and though I still find the tracker role hard to believe, I'm willing to overlook Stranger's suspicious behavior in favor of a Cass/geratihm lynch.

Cass' "let's end this today" seems kind of strange to me.

But the biggest problem I have right now, as I look back, is with geratihm's blue claim. There's a cop claim, a tracker claim, and two blue claims. With imaginality being a dead blue already I find it hard to believe that gera is a blue.

Can anyone tell me what Cass claimed? I seem to have missed that somewhere.

why do you not beleive that i am a blue as you put it? what has imaginality's death got to do with my being a blue?
you do realise i have voted for both dark and godot don't you? that is some pretty good distancing...

[Cass]

Let's see... Unless i missed something: Me and SC are voting Wumbo, Batt is voting me, the rest isn't voting. Six of us means four to lynch, so Wumbo's at L-2.
And yes, I"m a vanilla townie. Wumbo's logic that there are too many vanillas... isn't logic Might be a really desperate attempt to shift our attention off himself?

I'm ok with lynching him now, I feel we have discussed all there is to discuss today.

[geraintm]

wumbo, you are under pressure i think. at the moment, i cant think of a better person to vote for than yourself
unless you have some reason to back up "there are too many townies in this game" i will ikely vote for you

[Wumbo]

It actually makes sense. Mafia will have likely claimed blue as it is the easiest role to claim and the easiest way to fly under the radar. I find it logical that if everyone else's role claims are true, then the mafia has to be somewhere in the blue claims. Lynching me is probably better for town anyway. Too many people have suspicions on me.

In the meantime, however,

vote: Cass

My suspicions still stand. Though I think Cass and geratihm have pulled ahead of SC.

[Wumbo]

EBWODP:

Looking back on the thread, here are roles that are in the game currently:

Roleblocker (SC got roleblocked n2)
Tracker (SC)
Cop (N/P/I? Batt)
1 "confirmed" blue (Litral)
3 unconfirmed blues (Myself, geraintm, Cass)

If there is no town roleblocker claim, then that means the mafia has a roleblocker or SC is lying, which means he's scum and Litral is possibly scum.

Cass' posts always rub me the wrong way. They seem rather antsy and her coming in with a vendetta against chenshi already was a bit problematic. Cass also seems very keen on attacking people who already have suspicion cast upon them (myself, DWS, max at certain points), even more so than town discussion would normally warrant. Also the various ad hominems were frankly rather annoying.

I'm leaving the vote up on Cass for the moment just to let her talk. I have my reasons to believe that she is scum, but I think in the end my reason to believe that she is town is stronger, especially since I've reread. I'll leave the case out for now.


Geraintm is also pretty high up on the list because of a general lack of activity. The town seemed pretty satisfied with attacking me for not posting much... go back and take a look at what geraintm's posted. And now he comes in with a "i think i might vote for you because there's no one better?"

SC's posts continue to rub me the wrong way, but I've already stated my reasons for not believing him.

I would support Litral's idea for a no lynch, but I honestly think it's better to get me out of the way.

[StrangerCoug]

If there is no town roleblocker claim, then that means the mafia has a roleblocker or SC is lying, which means he's scum and Litral is possibly scum.

We already know that the roleblocker has to be scum, contrary to my initial thoughts.

[Cass]

Look Wumbo, I'm sorry about my 'vendetta' against Chenhsi (I'll try not to be in games with him in the future), and I'm sorry about insulting you in the past. But you have to admit both of you were playing very anti-town. And that rubs

me

the wrong way :p

Cass also seems very keen on attacking people who already have suspicion cast upon them (myself, DWS, max at certain points),

All the players you name were very suspicious, for very obvious reasons.

So, is your vote a kind of omgus vote for my ad hominems to you? Or do you see more reasons to think I'm scum? Because you seem to conclude that I'm probably town - is that right?

[geraintm]

It actually makes sense. Mafia will have likely claimed blue as it is the easiest role to claim and the easiest way to fly under the radar. I find it logical that if everyone else's role claims are true, then the mafia has to be somewhere in the blue claims. Lynching me is probably better for town anyway. Too many people have suspicions on me.

In the meantime, however,

vote: Cass

My suspicions still stand. Though I think Cass and geratihm have pulled ahead of SC.

what have i done to gather so much suspiscion from you, besides be a townie? i am totally up for Cass' plan of people (including myself) being investigated at random, i know i am ok. you think i havent posted enough? well, i havent had any investigations to report so i cat really bulk out my posts with talk like that, but i have always been here and tryin to contribute as best i can.

If there is no town roleblocker claim, then that means the mafia has a roleblocker or SC is lying, which means he's scum and Litral is possibly scum.

you think there could be two scum left?

you seem to be resigned to getting lycned, is that right?
i wish some of the players with claimed roles would step in with their opinions, at this poitn it feel slike those without info are the ones trying to work out the lynch

[Cass]

I think most people have expressed their opinion, now we just have to decide on a lynch. I stick with Wumbo, there's many reasons for him to be today's lynch. I find Batt's hesitation (and his attack on me) slightly scummy. He could be unsure town, but it would also fit in with him being falseclaiming scum. But as I said, I'd rather lynch Wumbo today, and if he's town, review Batt & everyone else again tomorrow.

[Battousai]

Cass: It's not hesitation. I honestly think Wumbo is not scum and I will not vote him today. I would prefer a no lynch to a Wumbo lynch, as that would decrease our chances of a lylo with a "Lynch the claimed powerrole or lynch the guilty result" scenerio.

All who's voting Wumbo: Please tell me your case against Wumbo. The only thing I have read is that he wasn't very active. So I'm going to do a post count of all players.

Kenfucius/Battousai: 37 (9.25)
Cass/Tom: 73 (18.25)
chenhsi lynched D1: 19 (19)
DWS lynched D2: 58 (29)
Geraintm: 52 (13)
Imaginality NK N1: 31 (31)
Inspector Godot lynched D3: 39 (13)
Litral: 54 (13.5)
Maxwellhouse NK N2: 23 (11.5)
Nhat NK N3: 40 (13.3....)
StrangerCoug: 97 (24.25)
Wumbo: 37 (9.25)

Numbers in () are daily posting average

If your voting wumbo for that, then why don't you find me suspicious? Is 4 more posts a day not suspicious, if it is why is no one pursuing Geraintm?

[StrangerCoug]

If your voting wumbo for that, then why don't you find me suspicious? Is 4 more posts a day not suspicious, if it is why is no one pursuing Geraintm?

Your posts are more decent than Wumbo's, though yes, I feel that geraintm should speak up more.

Wumbo claimed vanilla Day 1 at L-5, which made it easier for scum to look for power roles (though it's essentially the power role claims that cost us here). Since then, he simply seems not to know a lot about what's going on. TL,DR version: for the most part he's not even trying.

It also makes no sense to me that he's voting Cass when he has better reason to believe that she's town than scum.

[Cass]

We vote him mainly for logic.

- It's prefereable to lynch a townie.
- It's preferable to lynch an unconfirmed.

Me, Geraintm & Wumbo are the three (claimed) townies. (Litral is also townie, but he is pretty much confirmed.) Both you and Stranger have a credible claim. You already checked out me and geraint. If we lynch Wumbo now, you can check SC tonight. You have then checked everyone, and at the very least your sanity is known for sure. SC can check someone and confirm them.
Unless you have strong evidence on someone else, this plan makes the most sense.

[Battousai]

Except for the fact I believe Wumbo to be vanilla townie.

SC: Basically your confusing anti-town with scum tells. Also, show me his posts where it seems he doesn't know what's going on. Also, why should he believe Cass is town over scum?

I know I'm really sticking my neck out here, but I'm 98% sure Wumbo is not scum. If SC is not scum then I know I'm naive.

[StrangerCoug]

SC: Basically your confusing anti-town with scum tells.

What is the difference between being anti-town and being scummy?

Also, show me his posts where it seems he doesn't know what's going on.

They're largely from Day 1. Here, here, and here.

Also, why should he believe Cass is town over scum?

I'm not saying he should. I'm pointing out that he says he's leaning town on Cass, but he is voting her anyway, which doesn't make sense.

[Battousai]

There's a big difference. Scummy is a move that is beneficial for scum, whereas anti-town is a move that hurts the town. but at the same time does not benefit scum if a scum member does it.

For one, you said claiming vanilla townie at L-5 was scummy (one of your reasons for voting). If Wumbo is a vanilla townie, then it hurt the town. If he's scum then it did nothing. Therefore it didn't help scum so was just anti-town.

Your second reasoning was that Wumbo does not seem to know what is going on. If he is protown, then that hurts the town. If he's scum, then that doesn't benefit scum. Therefore anti-town and not scummy.

[Cass]

@Battousai: please explain why you are so convinced that Wumbo is town. What makes you believe him over geraint, me and SC?

I have to say it is somewhat scummy that Batt seems completely unwilling to leave any room for the (slight though it is) chance that he is a

sane

cop - because that's exactly what scum would do in his position. (I'll explain the logic of that if you really want me to, but it will be helping scum.)