Newbie 655: Zeroville. (Game Over!)

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Post Post #200 (ISO) » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:47 pm

Post by JonMW »

J_Slr wrote:That being said I do not want people to stop looking at tumescence, keep watching him, but also look at Jon, he really really wants tumescenced lynched and I for one can not really see why?
To be frank... I just got really tired of the way he threw me in a bad light.

Again, the only reason I've been sitting on the suggestion/hint/claim thing is because it's all I have. Everything else... is just this mess of sound, garbled information, and obtuse behaviour.
Plus my memory/willpower isn't very good, either. I tend to lose interest in holding an attack.
So yeah... Syphen
was
acting suspicious but that was, like, totally, last week. Omigaw, guh?

Mind's all over the place. KoL, EVE-online, DRoD, WaDF, Knytt Stories, Dwarf Fortress, these things all take my interest. Plus there's this little thing called an "engineering degree" that I'm apparently doing in my spare time.

In a few hours I'll try to re-evaluate my "most lynchable" top three.
Just, you know, sending ominous lard-wobbling tremors throughout the cosmos.
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Post Post #201 (ISO) » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:57 pm

Post by WhereIsTony »

Syphen's lurking stopped being so suspicious to me once i realized he was just not on much.
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Post Post #202 (ISO) » Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:41 pm

Post by J_Slr »

M4yhem: I am fine for Syphen lynch after those two post lists.

*feels dirty*

And yes I am agreeing with you (again) :D
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Post Post #203 (ISO) » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:29 pm

Post by M4yhem »

WhereIsTony wrote:Ok my list would be.

Pope's Tiara (tumescence)
Syphen
JonMW
m4yhem
Michel
J_Slr
Somedamnkid
Yuu


WhereIsTony wrote:I would Actually revisit my list

Tum
Michel
Jon

would be my top three
Old score:
Syphen = 11
tumescence = 10
JonMW=8
WhereisTony=8
somedamnkid =2

Revised score:
tumescence = 10
Syphen = 9
JonMW=8
WhereisTony=8
somedamnkid =2
Michel=2

Which means Tumescence would get the chop if we stick to the plan.

Tony- It's true that Syphen probably has legitimate reasons for being away but I would say he wasn't very helpful when he was here. His posts seemed mainly defensive.

Also, if Tumescence is still your top suspect, why are you voting for Michel?
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Post Post #204 (ISO) » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:30 am

Post by WhereIsTony »

I was hoping for a reaction, or a post from michel thus the vote.
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Post Post #205 (ISO) » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:10 am

Post by tumescence »

First off,
I will be absent from this site for the period of 24- 27 August.
, during which I will be flying from India to N.America. I apologize for the absence, but please try to avoid hammering me during that period...
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Post Post #206 (ISO) » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:31 am

Post by tumescence »

Unfortunately, my internet time is up! I will post tomorrow.
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Post Post #207 (ISO) » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:53 am

Post by Yuu »

I won't say I'm fine voting Syphen, he said he was coming back, so I think it'd be at least ok wait for him - but it seems the scores have changed?
I'd like to see Tumescence reaction to that after he comes back. I think the ideal would be having both of them here? But then, that might be hard or impossible.

Also, the delay on getting some votes isn't all helpful... Does anyone know if Michel is being IC in other games? That could be delaying him.
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Post Post #208 (ISO) » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:35 am

Post by M4yhem »

The scores changed because WhereisTony changed his number two suspect from Syphen to Michel. Since being second is worth two points, I subtracted two from Syphen and gave them to Michel.

The ideal would be to have every player checking the thread and posting at least twice a week.

I checked on Michel (using the view all posts link on his profile). He hasn't posted on site since august 6 so I guess he's super busy.
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Post Post #209 (ISO) » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:01 pm

Post by Erg0 »

Vote Count

tumescence 2 (Syphen, JonMW)
Syphen 2 (tumescence, M4yhem)
WhereIsTony 1 (somedamnkid)
JonMW 1 (Yuu)
Yuu 1 (J_Slr)
MichelSableheart 1 (WhereIsTony)

Not Voting 1 (MichelSableheart)

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

Prodded MichelSableheart and somedamnkid. Syphen seems to have disappeared entirely and will be replaced.
"You were doing well until everyone died."
V/LA most weekends.
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Post Post #210 (ISO) » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:07 pm

Post by M4yhem »

In the interests of moving the game forward and since he's leading the 'who's scummy' polls at the moment, I will
Unvote, Vote:tumescence
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Post Post #211 (ISO) » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:59 am

Post by WhereIsTony »

Unvote, Vote:tumescence
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Post Post #212 (ISO) » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:09 am

Post by J_Slr »

Correct if I am wrong, but is tumescence now at lynch -1 ?
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Post Post #213 (ISO) » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:13 am

Post by JonMW »

Looks like it... we may not require an imposed deadline after all.
Just, you know, sending ominous lard-wobbling tremors throughout the cosmos.
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Post Post #214 (ISO) » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:16 am

Post by tumescence »

JonMW wrote: The reason that I hang onto this point so savagely is because it's all I have. You, in comparison, seem to have even less - your attention is focused on what I'm doing...

Vote: tumescence
The SHEER HYPOCRISY of your position makes me laugh. I attacked you for what you said, just like you attacked Pope for what he said.

I don't have "less" than you; in fact, I have more! Whereas you attacked Pope on a speculative interpretation of Pope's words, I attacked you on concrete logical and semantical grounds.
...and you seem to be spending all your energy on attacking me.
I have been attacking several other people besides you, as anyone who has been reading my posts can attest. You were not even my main suspect.
-------------------

Regarding Pope's words:
1) Everyone seems to agree with me that saying Pope "role-claimed" is wrong.

2) Everyone agrees that Pope was mentioning the possibility that he could be a cop. What we disagree on(PAY ATTENTION, PEOPLE) is the purpose behind Pope's words. JonMW thinks the purpose was: role-claiming cop, or at the least hinting that he was a cop. Not only that, JonMW denies that Pope's words could have any other purpose. Here are JonMW's words:
Why would he bring up such a point unless he was attempting to make others think of him as a potential cop?
I clearly stated that Pope's words could have a different purpose: to point out the dangers of random-voting.

JonMW has failed to acknowledge my statement; instead, he basically revenge-voted (OMGUS!!!!) me for attacking him.
--------------------

Yuu and M4hem too are yet to clearly state whether they acknowledge that Pope's purpose could have been to signpost the dangers of random-voting. Here are Pope's words again:
Pope wrote:You wouldn't want to vote off a cop, would you? I mean, we don't know what anyone is, and my user name is p. cool.
Note the profession of ignorance ("we don't know who anyone is"), note the humor at the end ("my username is pretty cool"), note the context (M4yhem had just random-voted for Pope).

Yuu, M4yhem, and everyone else: do you still think that Pope's purpose was to make others think of him as a cop, or do you acknowledge that alternative purposes are possible?

If you think alternative purposes are possible, why do you still forge ahead to vote for Pope on such absolutely circumstantial evidence? Can you find noone more suspicious? (i.e. if you're voting for me, or greatly suspect me).
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Post Post #215 (ISO) » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:10 am

Post by tumescence »

WhereIsTony,
Why are you voting for me (tumescence)? I have made several posts, and I expect you to provide fresh analysis in light of those posts.
"WhereIsTony" wrote:As stated in an earlier post I don't think defending yourself with a few accusation or votes is productive, i prefer to continue to hunt for scum, the best defense is taking out the Mafia.
There's no reason why you can't both defend yourself AND scumhunt. Do both, I say!
WhereIsTony wrote:Unvote, Vote:tumescence
You risked putting me at L-1 without giving me a chance to defend myself, even when I had explicitly stated earlier that I was going to defend myself today? That seems like Mafia hoping for a quicklynch.

Vote: WhereIsTony


[Note: the reason why I haven't voted Jon is: despite all of Jon's flawed reasoning and double standards, I still see some glimmers of sincere effort from his part. As I said earlier, I am getting a mixed reading from Jon.]
----------------
In the interests of moving the game forward and since he's leading the 'who's scummy' polls at the moment, I will Unvote, Vote:tumescence
You're voting for me based on POLLS, which are themselves derived from people who are acting suspiciously (JonMW, WhereIsTony)? Earlier, you yourselves stated that Jon was your second most suspicious candidate. Now... Jon has put me as his top suspect. Why are you disregarding the fact that a suspected scum is contributing 3 points to my score?

And you're moblynching just to "move the game forward"? Really? Do you not think that such voting benefits scum way more than townies?

This is a poor strategical move, especially coming from an IC.
FoS: M4yhem


Articulate your own reasons for voting for me.
----------

I apologize if I come off as aggressive... I just got slightly irked by the fact that so many people seem intent on moblynching me.
[/b]
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Post Post #216 (ISO) » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:12 am

Post by tumescence »

EBWODP: The "In the interests of moving the game forward..." quote is from M4yhem.
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Post Post #217 (ISO) » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:12 am

Post by Yuu »

tumescence wrote: Yuu, M4yhem, and everyone else: do you still think that Pope's purpose was to make others think of him as a cop, or do you acknowledge that alternative purposes are possible?

If you think alternative purposes are possible, why do you still forge ahead to vote for Pope on such absolutely circumstantial evidence? Can you find noone more suspicious? (i.e. if you're voting for me, or greatly suspect me).
For me, it seemed more like a very desperate act. He could've been pointing the dangers of random voting - but why? I think the ICs had clearly stated that, in the beginning of the game, it was a good move. The only way I could've seen him then pointing out the 'dangers' of random voting was to save himself, not to warn people. For me, it was a move that, no matter wether Pope truly was a cop, mafia or townie, put the town at risk. (And it totally proved the ICs point - this random vote made Pope overreact so much it generated a discussion that goes even when he's out of the game)

Well, I can't say on that, I didn't vote for Pope. Pope's actions, though fishy, could make me think he was just someone without experience or short tempered. What calls my attention is that, for example, you spent some time arguing with people about Pope when they now aknowledged other suspects, like Syphen or Tony, etc. (J_Slr even had removed his vote on Pope, Tony said you didn't look scummy, though Pope did). I see how, by deffending Pope, you're trying to deffend yourself, but I also saw that people weren't relating you two, or were confused. And instead of trying to offer a good reason why Pope/You/Your Role should be innocent (I don't see that - for me, your logic seems based solely in a sentence, and that doesn't do much for me: people suspected Pope for other reasons than his infamous Cop argument) and moving on to hunt scum, you're stuck deffending him.

Questions:

**Tumescence**, based on the game before you came in and people started to vote you, and also based in all of your readings of people, in who would you have voted? I saw what you thought of people, but I didn't saw you pointing out/voting someone before people started to vote you desperately, and I'd like to see an argument that is not 'he tried to quicklynch me' or something like that (I recognize this one is a strong argument, but I'd like to see something more).

**Tony**, why this forth vote for Tumescence without even explaining your reasons?
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Post Post #218 (ISO) » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:37 am

Post by WhereIsTony »

I had explained my reasons on this vote so many times.

I have been voting for pope/tum from the beginning, I changed it to try to get a reaction from michel despite my strongest suspicion being on pope/tum.

Once michel was proidded I went back.
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Post Post #219 (ISO) » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:12 am

Post by somedamnkid »

I'm still here, haven't been active due to real life. My vote remains on Tony.

Tume: What I have seen from you so far has not been very good. Your focus appears to be not getting lynched rather than finding scum. Why are you so defensive?

WhereIsTony: You have never provided reasons for voting for Tume. Your vote was on pope until it was transferred to Tume. You have not provided any analysis on Tume. now that your out of suspicion you've moved back to your old ways of single line posts that don't give any detail. You asked if you should reevaluate Pope/Tume on page 7 but have not done so. Now you have cast the lynch -1 vote for no reason. (and since you deny this let me quote all of your posts since Tume joined.)

1. Context: Tume replaces pope, J_Slr removes vote from tume due to replacement.
WhereisTony wrote: bit of a quandry here.


Pop acted pretty scummy but, his replacement may not come off as such.

Not sure idf i should re-assess based on the new guy, or consider that the new guy may just be a better player.
Answer: YES! everyone else has been reevaluating their votes yet after 3 pages you have yet to catch on to this. +20% Scum

2. Context: Tume calls for Tony to defend himself.
WhereIsTony wrote:
tumescence wrote:Syphen, WhereIsTony:
Your lack of self-defense is making me progressively more suspicious of you. Defend yourselves!
As stated in an earlier post I don't think defending yourself with a few accusation or votes is productive, i prefer to continue to hunt for scum, the best defense is taking out the Mafia.

I am starting to find Michel more scummy with his vasnishing for prolong periods showing up and throwing out a few theories.

It seems like he stirs things up sees what damage he does and then resurfaces once things have settled.

Could be scum baiting could be trying to turn the town on itself.
Analysis: People have been saying that scumhunting is better than trying to defend yourself. This is true, but in every other case this game when even a little suspicion is cast on a player (ie. J_Slr against me, Me against M4yhem, J_Slr against Yuu) that player has not symply ignored the suspicion as you have. They have defended their actions while still hunting for scum. Suspicion is cast upon you yet you completely ignore it and continue in a "by the book" fashion. Also, is that the best accusation you can come up with? seriously weak. +15% Scum.


3.Context: J_Slr writes: @Tony: you raise a good point about Michel, maybe we should put some pressure on him to be a little more active?
WhereIsTony wrote:unvote
vote Michel

reason stated two or three posts ago
Analysis: You are to be responding to J_Slr's request that you provide more information about Michel by putting a vote on him based on truly terrible reasons. Lets go back to the reasons you voted for him. You think that Michel is trying to turn the town on itself when the only post where he did more than request more information or post his opinion on all the players was when he voted for you. His posts have done nothing to turn the town on itself. What they have done is provide useful insight and force people to clarify and explain their thoughts. Not only have you placed a vote based on a very little amount of information and on top of that extremely flawed and in my opinion false information.

4. Context: M4yhem has mentioned the polls again.
WhereisTony wrote:I would Actually revisit my list

Tum
Michel
Jon

would be my top three
Very little information here but what i can gain is that you have provided very little reasoning on your top three people. With Tume/Pope as I stated waay back on page 5 or 6 you did little to put pressure on him other than a random vote and the statment "I'm secure in my vote." As stated early in this post you have done nothing to question Tume or Michel. You have not even indicated that you thought Jon was suspicious and seem to only be listing him because other people think he is suspicious.

5. Context: M4yhem has asked if people are ok with voting off Syphen.
WhereisTony wrote:Syphen's lurking stopped being so suspicious to me once i realized he was just not on much.
One line post, no real information. The same kind of post that people found suspicious and he avoided when under suspicion. Now that he only has my vote on him he has fallen back to his old ways.

6. Context: M4yhem asks Tony about his reasons for voting for Michel.
WhereisTony wrote:I was hoping for a reaction, or a post from michel thus the vote.
One line post...etc denys his suspicion on Michel.

7. Context: M4yhem placed the 3rd vote on Tume.
WhereisTony wrote: Unvote, Vote:tumescence
Looking for a quick lynch? Maybe. No reasons for a vote? defiantly.

8. Context: Yuu asks why the fourth vote without reasons.
WhereisTony wrote:I had explained my reasons on this vote so many times.

I have been voting for pope/tum from the beginning, I changed it to try to get a reaction from michel despite my strongest suspicion being on pope/tum.

Once michel was proidded I went back.
The reasons you have stated for voteing for Pope/Tume are thus.
1. Pope didn't post in the first 19 posts of the topic.
2. Misinterpreted popes confusion about random voting as suspicious.
3. What I'm calling the "Scum Gloat" post. he writes: I'm pretty secure in my vote right now.
4. "Other than Pope seeming Scummy to me initially no one has really screamed pro-town."
5. @ pope Why were you nervous?
6. my vote is just an indicator of my suspicion based on the fact that he claimed cop
7. You give a list of reasons on the bottom of page 5. they are all one line and most are inconclusive at best.
These are all bad reasons to vote for someone.

Total analysis on WhereisTony: His inability to provide any significant information, reasoning, or analysis means he is scum and cannot think like a townie.

Tony: Care to defend yourself? if you do try to make it a meaningful post.
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Post Post #220 (ISO) » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:14 am

Post by somedamnkid »

GAH! I hate BBCode...stupid quote tags
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Post Post #221 (ISO) » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:35 am

Post by WhereIsTony »

Oh SDK, nice of you to join us, I guess it only took a mod prodding.

My vote on tume is because i was convinced pope is scum, and just because tume has done better at seeming not scummy (before his post got so desperate have not assuaged me).

The reasons I have voted for pope I have gone over again and again. I voted for michel to try to get a reaction this was no longer needed once he was prodded.

Then I returned to my previous vote as Tum has not convinced me he was not scum.

And yes I tend to post frequent short post, often from my cell phone. personally I prefer it to vanishing for extended periods of time.

What information have you provided in you occasional overly aggressive posts?
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Post Post #222 (ISO) » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:01 pm

Post by M4yhem »

tumescence wrote: Yuu, M4yhem, and everyone else: do you still think that Pope's purpose was to make others think of him as a cop, or do you acknowledge that alternative purposes are possible?
Both.
I acknowledge that he might not have been doing what I think he was doing but I find the alternatives harder to believe. It still seems to me that Pope wouldn’t have said ‘I might be the cop’ if he didn’t want people to think that he might be the cop.

tumescence wrote: If you think alternative purposes are possible, why do you still forge ahead to vote for Pope on such absolutely circumstantial evidence?
There are other reasons to vote for Pope- he wanted to lynch an inactive just to stop any active players getting upset, he voted no lynch for no good reason, he handle the pressure of being under suspicion badly and then he disappeared.
tumescence wrote: Can you find noone more suspicious? (i.e. if you're voting for me, or greatly suspect me).
I’m watching everybody closely. There are arguements I could make about several other people.
tumescence wrote: You're voting for me based on POLLS, which are themselves derived from people who are acting suspiciously (JonMW, WhereIsTony)?
They’re derived from everybody active in the game, including you. I am trying to get the town into a position where we can agree on who to lynch.
tumescence wrote: Earlier, you yourselves stated that Jon was your second most suspicious candidate. Now... Jon has put me as his top suspect. Why are you disregarding the fact that a suspected scum is contributing 3 points to my score?
Beacause your score does not come just from the scum but from townies as well. It is my hope that, because there are more townies than scum, the really scummy people will still get the highest scores, even with the scum giving high scores to the scummiest-looking townies to protect themselves.
tumescence wrote: And you're moblynching just to "move the game forward"? Really? Do you not think that such voting benefits scum way more than townies?
I think moving the game forward benefits every player. We have to lynch at some point or the game will stagnate. Also, it is no good me keeping track of everyone’s top three and assigning scores if I am not prepared to go through with the plan and vote for the top scorer. Everyone in the game has agreed with my plan, as far as I can tell. So I think I am doing what the town has agreed is in it’s best interest.

I would like to point out though, that I was not expecting anybody else to vote you so quickly.

Everybody read this:
I don’t want anybody lynched until Syphen’s replacement has made himself known and Michel has given us his list.

Finally, if any of you want to change the scores you gave Pope’s (or anyone else) now is the time. If anyone has doubts about the plan I’ve suggested, now is the time to make them known. If you don’t, I assume that you are happy to vote for the top scoring candidate when the time comes.

Also, if you copy+paste the most recent set of scores and then change them yourself, I’ll be really grateful. If you want to know how, ask.

Somedamnkid- Have you got bbcode enabled?

I agree that Tony was quite quick with the followup vote, so
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Post Post #223 (ISO) » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:09 pm

Post by WhereIsTony »

my "follow-up" vote was not a follow to your vote it was a follow to michel's prodding
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Post Post #224 (ISO) » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:03 pm

Post by somedamnkid »

Yeah I have BBCode enabled, I'm just used not to needing to put the person's name in quotes. My fault for not hitting the preview button. :(

Tony: I've never bothered to analyze by own posts, and I would be biased anyways, so I don't know what people know about me beyond what they say. What I hope people know about me is exactly where I stand and the reasons I have taken the actions I have.

As for the state of the game, I agree with M4yhem's request not to lynch until everyone is present, but for the sake of moving the game forward I'd be willing to cast the lynch vote on Tume as he has been my second most suspicious for a while now.

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