Imagine this but for like 100 posts
Here's the blatant buddying, pt. 1. But, but. If you're gonna push hard as shit for spares, and you need to get Puppy spared by N3 -- wouldn't you need to assert yourself as a townbloc early? Doesn't this just... make sense for a team trying to get their ranks spared?
In post 247, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:each day only one contestant "nominates" themselves to be judged by the collective town - placing his fate in the hands of his peers.
He shall write a long post detailing why he is worthy of being spared and healed.
Then all players will vote on this person's candidacy - either heal or hurt and the day will end with his healing or hurting.
so only those of us with the most pure of hearts should try this :)
This actually cuts the spare pool down to only people who want to be spared. interesting..
fuck this feels weird
Interesting
In post 470, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Tanner,
like let me give you a really simple example.
Let's pretend you are the world's best mafia player - you are brilliant as both scum and town - your range is very wide in both directions.
Let's say you know with 99% certainty that 2 players are widely outside their scum-range and have town-slipped.
In a normal game that doesn't really help you much because the PoE only narrows from 11 to 9 and you still are limited by mistakes made by the remaining players. However in this game it's almost as good as gold -
You could push for A-B to be back to back spares. Scum use their shot on you because you're super awesome, and A-B get spared back to back and we are 50% of the way towards winning the game.
If scum shoot B, we still got A and you can still find the next town-slip or def-town player.
So if a brilliant player like Hectic is town, he would be a tremendous asset if we are going the Spare Route. However if he was scum - it's really hard for him to actually do damage because a Good-Town Hectic would not actually want to get spared himself.
Pooky explaining to Tanner why sparing is actually the most optimal strategy
In post 485, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:you know what we could do if you guys are all super convinced Tanner = good?
we could like totally spare him and give peace a chance.
I will give Pooky credit here the first time he seriously proposes a spare, it's a townie. It bounces off of the thread generally being positive towards Tanner but still.
In post 490, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
I don't think I ever presented it as "easy"
but I do believe it will be a worthy goal and an amazing win if we can pull it off :)
After a while Pooky admits that it may not be the best option but he wants to do it anyway. I can respect that if he's town, i really wanted to spare going into this game. But really this doesn't change the fact it would have helped scum
Elements is getting sussed by the thread pretty bad at this time
In post 521, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 518, Morning Tweet wrote:I bet Chara and Tanner and prolly several ppl have made that point every 5 seconds but here I am rehashing it in the vain hopes it makes it clear to Pooky that we're taking the game on the path to murder and destruction and he needs to hop on board for now whether he agrees with it or not
alright if you want my super spicy guess on who the scum-team is.
I'd have to say:
Chara - Elements
Goon - Catboi
Goon - Tayl0rSwift
rule of 3's passes. Not that i find that to be a reliable tell but still
In post 543, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 118, Elements wrote:one of them should be pooky
one of them should be me
one of them should be hectic
btw this post is why i think elements is chara.
he very conveniently puts himself in the middle of the order - he can't be last because he'd die on D3 - so it's a sneaky middle of the pack insert - he doesn't put himself first because he's a very sneaky chara.
Maybe i'm the crazy one but I find this logic really far out
In post 544, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 535, Elements wrote:Hectic - Town
Elements - Town
Chara - null
Prism - town
PookyTheMagicalBear - chara
catboi - town
Morning Tweet - town
Tayl0r Swift - eh
Lavender - who?
redtea - eh
Tanner - scum
CantLynchAPuppy - scum
This is just hilarious read from Elements because to believe Pooky-Chara / Puppy-Goon you'd have to think we are 2 of the worst mafia players in history. It makes no sense for puppy to say I give good vibes and be like that close to me especially considering that if I was the actual chara I'd flip on D1 if town goes the hurt route and there's pretty big chance town does go the hurt route.
If you take the time to think about how a chara would actually be behaving on D1 if the town is heavy against 4-spare, you'd either see less posting, distancing or some kind of weird in between - it would be nearly suicidal stupid to openly buddy a scum goon to the chara.
If Pooky is scum this is the most self aware shit ever
Elements accusing Pooky here of being Chara and puppy of being scum I think is a point in Pooky's favour, maybe? It seems counter-intuitive to the spare strategy, and Pooky/Puppy do not want to bus.
With regard to the point that Puppy/Pooky are playing insane if they're mafia pushing for spares when thread wants fights -- that's WIFOM, baby. Also may as well stick to the bit? You wouldn't have known we'd be anti-fight, and after you learned, you can still play to the WIFOM strategy I suppose
In post 598, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:No it wasn't what I was doing - I didn't think that far ahead - I wanted to go the spare route because it felt like something pretty cool to do.
But thinking more about how a Chara and its team would be thinking about the game-state and the fact that Chara dies on D1 on a town-flip - I thought the scum chara and its team would be distanced pretty hard or no interaction at all since the thing they know if town goes kill-path and hits a townie, Chara flips. Hence one way we could've baited some kind of interaction would be to make them think we were actually going spare.
Anyway that boat has sailed, let's get some activity and settle on a hurt candidate since that's what everyone wants to do.
If anyone wants me flipped today I am here all night to answer any questions about my play so far they might have and address their suspicions.
Pooky is currently being voted by Tanner, Hectic, and Chara. I suppose this is where he concedes the sparing point in favour of not dying, fair enough
In post 603, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Like if you read Catboi's ISO.
His push on me is extremely shallow - and he doesn't really take the time or effort to try to figure me out or figure out if my slot is scum - it's just a push for ML without any real thought behind it.
While Tanner actually engages me in conversation in trying to convince me 4Spare is a bad idea - Catboi's faith IMO feels much shadier. I will do a full ISO recap of Catboi so far this game and another ISO with foccus on his posts regarding me to show you what I mean.
Begin the catboi scumread. Pooky presents a huge wall on catboi's scumminess as well
This continues for quite some time. Really my only comment is that catboi was pretty obvtown to most of the thread including myself.
In post 731, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 720, Tayl0r Swift wrote:hmm i reread the iso and im not sure what i was seeing. its possible that the avatar just set me off? on rereading youre more null-town
In post 723, Tayl0r Swift wrote:i dunno! at the time i didnt like that catboi wont lay off pooky. pooky feels like lhf and kinda obvtown. but catboi overall i think is just overeager town.
feels pretty underwhelming. reads badly
Throws tayl0r into the suspects. This is actually the second time he does a bit of a preflip associative on catboi. He did this to redtea as well here:
In post 630, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
I just want to note here that Redtea was unable to come up with a single reason to TR Catboi when pressed for an actual reason so if either of them flip scum you should look at the other.
-----
In post 840, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I hope you are all proud of me for restraining myself from posting more. Skitter told me I need to dial down my involvement in games and give them a chance to breathe.
Anyway here are some of my thoughts over the last 24 hours:
1] Hectic
I liked his TR of Lavendar - I was worried for a moment that he was moving to LHF-Push Lavendar as her meta is fairly weak - this slides him more towards a good player for me.
Not like SOUL-READ MASON- but closer. The music is also lovely.
2) Catboi
I find it strange that he would pursue the path of attacking me and claim that he expected me to bury him in a giant wall and then back off the way he did.
If this is what you expect me to do when you attack then why would you even attack in the first place if you were just going to walk away? The behavior is strange and I'm not sure if it is AI.
3) Redtea has gone mia
I hope he's alright and I would like to discuss his town-read on catboi with him.
4) I like reading Prism/Chara conversations - they are refreshing.
5) MorningTweet is too cute.
6) Could it be that Puppy is scum with Elements? Would be very interesting to re-examine the Puppy slot. I would be sad if my puppy friend was scum here.
Ending Thoughts -
I would like everyone to take the time to do a detailed readslist with actual citations for how they feel about each slot in the game.
Right now we feel somewhat directionless very close to the deadline and I would like to get more of an overall sense of how the room is feeling before we decide on a fight candidate.
Also if we miss and hit town it would be very useful to see the Chara's readslist.
It's very clear that catboi is Pooky's #1 suspect. He susses redtea as a secondary choice, sorta. He tinfoils both scum here ! So cheeky if scum. But does Pooky act on that thought?
In post 865, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 860, Hectic wrote: In post 858, Prism wrote:I think part of the struggle for me is how it's really that unnatural. It seems like you had issue with his tone. But without knowing Elements, and just knowing that he misread you 4 games in a row, joking around about you always being town and sparing you in RVS seems extremely natural.
I can definitely see myself voting this slot, though.
Well, yeah, but I do know his tone. And like I said, it's usually kinda abrasive and very unpockety. His type of approach towards Pooky and I this game I haven't seen from him as either alignment, but I think there's more scum-motivation than town-motivation for the shift.
Let's look at Elements progression on my slot this game
Like do you see anywhere in the ISO where there's a natural shift from elements from let's do 4 spare and Pooky should be one of them to "Pooky is the Chara"
Like it's just comical his progression on me and it feels like a Chara that just gave up lol.
Okay here's some real pressure placed onto Elements, the first time. Was Elements currently being killed at the time of this post?
Puppy just let off of Elements. Hectic and Chara are actively sussing Elements. Catboi moved from Hectic to Tayl0r. Tanner is considering compromising on Elements after beeboy talks.
<then Pooky makes
840 where he tinfoils Ele/Puppy>
Pooky actually keeps talking about how he suspects catboi for a bit (
849,
853,
855)
Tayl0r nulls Elements and votes Chara. And then Pooky does the Elements progression post. I could go either way on whether or not the bus is too early, kind of depends on what Pooky decides. If he's scum, he's keeping as many people on the table as he can (Primarily catboi though).
In post 1006, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:HURT: beeboy
deadline is closing in and this imo is our best option.
any1 thinks they have a better case on somebody else I will be happy to listen but let's get this done before deadline gets uncomfortably close.
boop. Every wagon has failed besides beeboy's at this point -- the Hectic one just got done crumbling. It's over, so had scum!Pooky voted elsewhere i think we would have caught him quickly because Ele still would have been elimed. On the other hand he might just be town voting for his scumread!
In post 1075, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:i feel tremendous remorse for wrongly burying catboi under a wall and would like to atone by starting an appreciation page for him.
The catboi kill was really odd. Is there motivation for Pooky to do it? I guess slightly because they suspected each other hard in a 1v1 earlier. I don't really have any analysis for the NK
In post 1129, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 1111, Hectic wrote:Pooky on the other hand having his first vote of the game be on Ele when it looked like that was going through for sure is sus. Why didn't you ever vote for catboi, Pooky?
It's a good thing I can see your SOUL through how Ele interacted with you...
I never got to the point where I wanted to elim catboi.
That was a big ass case for someone uninterested in eliminating him. I can kinda relate though I don't vote much after RVS.
In post 1229, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 1225, CantHateAPuppy wrote:Still think we should spare. I think the math is actually slightly better because we can save two town and get a cop check, instead of only 2 cop checks at the end. Can write up a case on this later if anyone wants or not if everyone's sick of it
I don't see why it makes sense to spare - if anything losing to the chara is even more likely with the smaller player list on an absolute probability basis whereas even if we miss on hurt we will see Chara flip.
Obviously a spare was never gonna happen D2. Really weird that Puppy brought it up.
Hey, at least the Hectic paranoia is long and consistent. Wait, is that a towntell or a scumtell? In any case it didn't pop out of nowhere, Pooky's been nurturing that read for centuries.
Pooky kinda just suspects Tayl0r. Doesn't mean much.
In post 1572, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I agree that bussing is very suboptimal for scum on D1 - but considering how elements basically awoled out of the game and then beeboy also awoled - I can see a scum putting a distancing vote on and then not being able to dis-engage as the slot gave them no plausible way to disengage.
Remember in a genocide only scenario the Chara flips if we miss d1 so it's not unreasonable for the chara to place a distancing vote.
That's one reason why I don't like redtea - he really only has scum-equity and minimal chara equity as if he was chara and he managed to move the votes away from Ele - his flip would really seal Ele's fate on the 2nd day.
Pooky did not bus on D1 in my opinion. He describes Puppy's behaviour here actually (although Puppy had a failed disengage vote)
In post 1575, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:agree on puppy
I'm going to re-read the section around this VC:
In post 550, Isis wrote:PookyTheMagicalBear ------- (3) Hectic, catboi, Tanner
As I think it is the fork in the road where scum could've driven a Pooky-Miselim and saved Beeboy/Ele and I'm really curious now why this didn't happen if the wagon is clean.
....he then proceeds to agree with Prism that Puppy is town. How could we be THIS blind? I'm not even counting it as a scumtell because I did the same thing
In post 1980, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I don't see why redtea-scum would kill catboi given how much catboi thinks redtea is town?
the kill makes more sense with taylor being baddie.
Pooky still preferring Tayl0r > Redtea-Krazy
while he leans tayl0r, he's actually pretty all over the place. You know, defending the person who seemed destined to die D2 (Krazy) is helpful for getting more eliminations. He's set up for Krazy->Tayl0r->Lav/Hectic/Tanner options
He reviewed Tanner's ISO and actually started scumreading him pretty hard. I forgot about this!
In post 2343, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:well not complete darkness - that might be a bit unfair.
I re-read his ISO and I think hmm this looks liike a town player.
but now knowing that this is the glorious Datisi we are dealing with - I can't help but be disappointed by the level of towniness on display.
It is like comparing a lantern in the night to the brilliance of the Sun.
This feels exactly the same as Pooky's Hectic read
In post 2531, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:why not
he's gonna die anyway
besides who else on the scum-team do you think could've talked ele into going for the 4 spare push
+scum points to everyone that tried to switch that elim off Tayl0r onto Hectic to be honest
Note: Hectic made 0 sense to be Chara. He hard bussed Elements. That was enough for me
Uh huh
In post 2789, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:im ready to proxy my vote off to prism or datisi and hectic's posting so far has made me feel more that he is scum tho I would be really feelsbad if he's not so I'm ok going with someone elses opinion at this point
HURT: noone
Kinda gives up responsibility for D2 here
All the switching from Tayl0r talk right b4 deadline is good for scum if that actually works. That's just a free miselim
In post 2891, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
In case Taylor's good here's my very preliminary conditional chara flip chart thingamajig.
It's super paranoid and stupid so just putting it out there in case I die tonight >.>
He thought he was gonna die? At least this is consistent with his Hectic push D3. It's interesting how Pooky sort of projects uncertainty a lot of the time but his actual stance is pretty rigid. Idk that's probably just confbias speaking
Points out all the WIFOMy stuff he did. I am a sucker for defenses like this where someone is like "There's no way it's me are you kidding?" But in reality if Pooky is scum here, he'll have a great memory of all that intentional wifom distancing stuff he did earlier. Idk I'm conflicted here
In post 3047, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 3045, Chara wrote: In post 3043, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:also if you hard push someone and they don't get exec'd, when you flip as chara it makes the person you pushed look better.
you are right about this distancing gone wrong is a reasonable explanation.
my first thought is he would have not tried this day 2 after it ended that way day 1.
i agree - think this makes krazy locktown
keeping this here
See, he puts himself last because he wants to be the last to get eliminated so he has a chance to talk us out of it -- wait, no, that's conspiracy-level reasoning. Still it's WIFOM
Me actually
Okay Pooky wasn't trying to keep Tanner on the table, nor Krazy
Tons of Hectic suspecting. I debated Pooky about it a lot.
I outlined why it was pretty serious in
3145.
FUCK FUCK FUCK I KNEW IT WASN'T HECTIC. FUCK
idk why Im replying to old posts
In post 3150, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:If you think Puppy's push on Hectic was serious and he seriously SR Hectic, do you think Town!Hectic lets him get away with some revisionist history on D2 where he's like
"Damn. Still can't believe my one and only scumread actually flipped scum."
Like I'd imagine Hectic!Town at that point reaccts by jumping down Puppy's Throat and Punching him in the face or something. Not some fake convo about aaah you forgot about this thing here.
You also let Puppy get away but to be fair it's not as serious because you didn't suspect Puppy nearly as much as Hectic did in the first place
In post 3200, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:he seemed uncharacteristically confident in suji being the chara and his reasoning for it was very unconvincing for a player of his caliber.
How about me being uncharacteristically confident in beeboy!scum. I don't find this to be very strong reasonign WHY AM I REPLYING TO OLD POSTS
In post 3232, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I don't really believe you were so blinded by Suji that you couldn't follow up with your other suspicions from D1 - especially since Suji repped out and we were waiting for someone to replace into the slot.
This is probably the crux of Pooky's case, or at least one of the main ones. It's not bad, I definitely understand the reasoning behind it, but I feel like if you factored in everything -- why does Hectic sus Puppy and Elements so hard in the first place? Why does Puppy switch to Hectic? etc, then it's not so hard to see why Hectic more than makes up for that one point against him.
In post 3287, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: In post 3283, Hectic wrote:I also simply don't believe that you think I had any chance of being
there. Others were sus of me but it was obvious to them I just wan't ChAra, but you pushed me anyway. If you really value my scum play so highly, you wouldn't assume scum!Hectic would make such a game throwing play of hard bussing a scum buddy on D1.
Then you clearly don't understand how much respect I have for your scum-range.
Pooky kind of uses Hectic's BoPness in a way that is only convenient to him scumreading Hectic. Confirm biased or scum?
Find this gut towny because it's kind of blunt lol
All of this!
Wait, didn't you say you never hard bus your partners as scum?
If you mean "why didn't I vote Elements as soon as I realized he was going down?", that's what you did! In my interpretation anyway.
Oh but that's my specialty
I'll say! He even says this as he's AtEing Lav to vote for Hectic. Incredible
In post 3718, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Tweetie has filled my heart with doubt though so now I'm kind of wavering- my conviction is gone and it is filled with dreadful worry that I could be wrong and have been incredibly unfair to Hectic and placed too much BoP on him when he's already so amazing (。╯︵╰。) (。╯︵╰。)
Oh, NOW you're unsure
Yeah I still dont get that part
Shit like this is again my weakness. Posts like these cripple my resolve to vote for ppls
In post 3920, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:ok but Hectic is just not going to happen.
Tanner thinks Hectic is town
Nacho/Alisae both don't want Hectic
Tweetie thinks Hectic is town.
Hectic isn't going to hurt himself.
That's 5 people
We can't flip Hectic between the 2 of us and Lavender who might not even show up so what's the point? We need a consensus Elim to preserve the 2 Pub-Cops - we can't just let the scum stall this into no-decision.
Pooky fought tooth and nail at deadline for that elim jesus
Not that he had a choice though.
I hate Pooky!scum if he actually came up with that
Actually, how does Pooky even know this I had no idea that was a rule, I should have read better