Mini Normal 2168 | So Many Bats! | Game Over!

[shellyc]

shelly and everyone had very good reasoning to call me town, this is grossly simplifying it to "being quite active and giving reads d1".

The town case on you was simply being active and giving reads.

I challenge anyone (other than the Confirmed Scum) to tell me otherwise

[shellyc]

Also, why do you think I'm good at scum? You've only seen town!me.

Sometimes when I finish work I’m interested in forum mafia and all the games that have happened in the past...
And sometimes I click on a game with scum!hectic...
And they happen to be scum!hectic wins...

[shellyc]

It should be obvious what I'm implying. I mean, I may as well say it at this point, as I'm an unlikely nightkill now. I didn't want them to know I was a commuter because I wanted them to target me tonight.

Scum!duppin obviously doesn’t kill you here

[Morning Tweet]

VC 4.4

Bat Fact #25:

Some bats hibernate rather than migrate.
They enter a deep resting state where their heart rate is slowed to 10 beats per hour and normal life functions operate at 2% energy level.

EXILE STATUS

[2] duppin:

shellyc, PlusJOYED

[1] shellyc:

duppin

[1] No Elimination:

Hectic

[2] Not Voting:

davesaz, UNOwen

With 6 still flying around the place, it takes 4 votes to ground someone.

The Day 4 deadline is in:

(expired on 2020-10-19 00:35:00)

Mod Notes:

shellyc is V/LA until 10/19

[/mech]

[duppin]

i thought youd be v/la but i do appreciate you posting if busy actually

I haven't caught up completely, but once again, I outed the gunsmith clear without thinking as soon as I saw it, since honestly, I didn't think bugspray would die in the night even with a good clear on them. I later regretted it and even PMed some of my frustration to Morning lol

aaa, I wish I had some more WIM to fight but I really can't be asked right now. duppin, can you please obvtown or something? I feel like the game is lost either way now, since even if I'm horribly wrong and duppin is scum, I'm gonna be mislaunched for the loss tomorrow at this rate.

hectic is now officially flailing

ehhhh im fine with no elim if we just get duppin tmr then hectic and finish the job off

seriously. another thing is that dave is a mechanically-oriented player, and im a newb at heart, so why wouldn't me and dave talk about the best claim to make? dave/me makes no sense at all, uno/me doesn't make sense because UNO can just push through and dave/uno/shelly/plus all vote duppin and finish the job.

me/hectic and me/duppin are impossible. I am not paired with anyone here.

i mean there are a lot of ways to explain this: dave has been very busy throughout the game so its possible you never really got to talk about fake claiming, it is also possible that you did (since he seemed to suggest it would be silly for scum to fake tracker) but that he did not know youd come up with such a weak claim. this is a nonsensical read to try to clear yourself

even though you can say me/dave/plus have been more individually scummy, scum is a TEAM and simply the only way to explain this mylo is that hectic/duppin are scum

uh... what? feel free to try to explain this

[duppin]

It should be obvious what I'm implying. I mean, I may as well say it at this point, as I'm an unlikely nightkill now. I didn't want them to know I was a commuter because I wanted them to target me tonight.

Scum!duppin obviously doesn’t kill you here

i would never kill uno either and you know that but pretty sure youd never admit to that as it it would force you into killing your only town supporter in dave/plus

[duppin]

hectic is now officially flailing

i also love this since earlier this day you said it was a scumtell to say someone was flailing, but yeah this is pretty much in line with your play today so i am not surprised

[duppin]

noraa is flailing now

keep in mind that next time as scum in this kind of situation you should self vote and shut up. you’re caught.

actually you also said it day 2, i just love the hypocritical inconsistency, it really is a shame that the town in dave/plus isnt around more

[Hectic]

I haven't caught up completely, but once again, I outed the gunsmith clear without thinking as soon as I saw it, since honestly, I didn't think bugspray would die in the night even with a good clear on them. I later regretted it and even PMed some of my frustration to Morning lol

aaa, I wish I had some more WIM to fight but I really can't be asked right now. duppin, can you please obvtown or something? I feel like the game is lost either way now, since even if I'm horribly wrong and duppin is scum, I'm gonna be mislaunched for the loss tomorrow at this rate.

hectic is now officially flailing

ehhhh im fine with no elim if we just get duppin tmr then hectic and finish the job off

seriously. another thing is that dave is a mechanically-oriented player, and im a newb at heart, so why wouldn't me and dave talk about the best claim to make? dave/me makes no sense at all, uno/me doesn't make sense because UNO can just push through and dave/uno/shelly/plus all vote duppin and finish the job.

me/hectic and me/duppin are impossible. I am not paired with anyone here.

even though you can say me/dave/plus have been more individually scummy, scum is a TEAM and simply the only way to explain this mylo is that hectic/duppin are scum

You've provided good reasons for everyone here not being partnered with you expect for Dave, it's pretty impressive. Pretty sure you claimed a guilty on duppin because you thought people would side with you, and you were correct! Plus and UNOwen both believe you over duppin, so I'm not sure why you're saying it was a bad claim and that you/Dave wouldn't make it.

It's shelly/Dave.

[Hectic]

shelly and everyone had very good reasoning to call me town, this is grossly simplifying it to "being quite active and giving reads d1".

The town case on you was simply being active and giving reads.

I challenge anyone (other than the Confirmed Scum) to tell me otherwise

It wasn't. It was for proactive and genuine solving and good tone. Point is that you went from thinking I was likely town to thinking I'm definitely scum after my commuter claim. You realise you have to push back at me now and win everyone else's votes, so this is far more beneficial to you than saying there's scum in [Dave/UNOwen] and that Hectic is town.

[Hectic]

im just going to fix the solve as hectic/duppin

n3 tracker and 2s commuter cannot co-exist, but lets think about this
RS is one of the strongest TPRs
weak FN is self confirmable and generates alignment results
Informed GS is a pretty strong investigtative
and when you add 2s commuter (which basically cannot die at night if used well) to it it's too much town protective power for one (unless there's something like a full strongman but commuter beats strongman) and quite townsided

imagine that setup but with n3 tracker. for one, n3 tracker is possibly dying before the shot is used up, and all the PRs visit here giving ample opportunity for false guilties. I would say its a much more balanced setup.

hectic's claim does not make sense even if I did not exist

I'd like to once again point out that weak FN can be annoying design because it'll eventually put the setup on evens which is no fun. Hence why Morning's thrown in two ways for town to get back on odds through night actions - the commuter and the Rolestopper. It makes PERFECT sense setup-wise.

Gunsmith is not super OP because it can get false innos on the doc, so every clear means less until the mafia doc is flipped. In this case we got lucky and it happened to be Noraa.

This setup (without the tracker obv) is pretty balanced, if you look back at normal game history this one is less townsided than a majority of games.

Also, the Rolestopper has a chance to prevent the gunsmith from getting checks, so I think it's fine.

I was actually misreading shelly's post yesterday. I thought she was saying "it's not impossible that Hectic and I's roles co-exist", but she was actually saying we CAN'T co-exist, lol.

[Hectic]

Why did you only wait 2 minutes if you wanted to test the wagon speed?

seeing that it was quite obvious bait

i decided against it

This clearly isn't what you were making out here:

Uhhh, what

I was trying to see if anyone would jump on.

it's indicative of scum!jv tbh

You were actually implying Jacko was scum because no one jumped on in the 2 minute period.

Saudade, you're overreacting, there's been a page of discussion on it, and I don't think there's much else to say on it anyway. What do you think of:

shelly's 2 minute reaction test, which she said implied Jacko was scum, but then later backpedalled on:

Why did you only wait 2 minutes if you wanted to test the wagon speed?

seeing that it was quite obvious bait

i decided against it

This clearly isn't what you were making out here:

Uhhh, what

I was trying to see if anyone would jump on.

it's indicative of scum!jv tbh

You were actually implying Jacko was scum because no one jumped on in the 2 minute period.

Also, this backpedal which clearly isn't true:

VOTE: shellyc

I have no idea how you manage to roll scum so much.

the way you flip on me concerns me a tiny bit

the way you flip on me concerns me a tiny bit

Something something OMGUS for the 3rd time this game

concern != omgus

like, im concerned by how scum might manipulate Mr. Jester to vote wrong lategame.

I'm just trying to figure out if town!shelly is willing to lie to defend herself.

Could everyone please read through these two posts, and tell me that town!shelly is lying in good faith, rather than this just being scum!shelly lying in bad faith? Because she is 100% lying in these cases.

In the first, she loes about her "bait wagon" on Jacko. First arguing she was doing it if anyone followed, when called out by me on why she only waited 2 minutes, she flailed (I will be using this buzzword since shelly is a big fan) and said she decided against using it since it was "obvious bait". HOWEVER, she was saying here- ah I'm afraid people aren't going to understand this unless I carefully guide them through what happened, I'll do this properly when I'm not on mobile.

[Hectic]

(IGNORE PREVIOUS POST, I WILL OUTLINE A CLEARER CASE SOON)

I'll handhold you all through this if I have to.

[UNOwen]

Oh right. I was assuming that you've been on board with not executing for all of this day but I guess on review 3653 onwards is where you decided on trying to get get shelly executed?

Or rather, it registered that you were ok with executing but I assumed that it wasn't serious and you realised it wasn't going to happen. Some of your posts make more sense if you were thinking that I was ever voting between duppin or shelly today.

Questions for Hectic:
- It wasn't followed through, but why did you ever entertain pivoting to dave when you knew you had unrevealed information that increases the chances of shelly scum?
- Why did you think you could convince everyone to ignore your own advice about mass claiming before executing?

We could, but just promise me you launch shelly if I'm dead. Honestly, it's mostly selfish reasons that I die and then shelly manages to escape.

- What was this all about?

[Hectic]

Our roles can coexist, UNOwen, that's why. As I mentioned, it'd be townsided but a lot of normal are really townsided nowadays, it's kind of a problem.

3650 is in the case that scum have rolecopped me and found out I'm a commuter. I wanted to give the impression I was out of shots.

[Hectic]

- Why did you think you could convince everyone to ignore your own advice about mass claiming before executing?

Do you mean after I started pushing shelly? Because I started hard scumreading her and thought others would also see her as obvscum.

[Hectic]

Massclaiming is also less important when you're launching in a conflict where you know for a fact 1 is scum, and no else has spoken up, indicating there's no other useful info in the other players.

[UNOwen]

Do you mean after I started pushing shelly? Because I started hard scumreading her and thought others would also see her as obvscum.

Ok. I'd only ever get behind executing confirmed scum in this situation without a mass claim, but I guess I can believe you thought you could persuade town otherwise.

[Hectic]

That's fair, you'd be playing optimally.

[Hectic]

Where are you at percentage-wise on shelly/duppin?

[Hectic]

Would it help if I showed all the times I softed tracker in the hopes scum would notice and nightkill me for it?

[UNOwen]

Increasingly going towards shelly

[UNOwen]

Would it help if I showed all the times I softed tracker in the hopes scum would notice and nightkill me for it?

Go ahead

[Hectic]

duppin stayed behind

I thought this was pretty blatant lol

[Hectic]

Readslist before I call it a night. I'll try and keep a sorted list for this game, useful for keeping

track

of my thoughts.

bugspray
MiniMegabyte
JacksonVirgo
duppin
Redados

UNOwen, NorwegianboyEE, Mundivore (Null)

Noraa
Saudade
Grendel
shellyc
Odd Day Jester