Death Curse

[Noraa]

+ nice points

[UNOwen]

Yeah I got so fucking pissed that she used an outside influence against me. I literally just said I was excited to play a game that Hectic modded and she twisted that to somehow prove that there's no possible way I didn't read the OPs. Uno you have played with me before and you really think I'm scum here?

I'm afraid I do.

owen what are your reads atm?

Noraa scum.
Adorable scum.
Zdenek scum?

As earlier, if you want me to look at a specific player then I will.

[Noraa]

Why uno?

[UNOwen]

These people, please read Hopkirk and give me a read. "Null" is not a read unless you can justify it real well, please. I want you to lean TOWN or SCUM essentially "would you kill Hopkirk?"

Yes I would kill Hopkirk, I can see him as scum. That is a low confidence suspicion though and would prefer cursing elsewhere for now.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Starting this post before I finish catching up to say /Tayl0r/ what is /up/ this LLD play is like exactly parallel to my town play and I didn't throw the game, I nailed scum Noraa dead on the money! This isn't anti town play from LLD, this is play with subtlety AND a plan (which I DID NOT HAVE in our game). Step back, reframe the gamestate /yourself/ Tayl0r. I know you defend no-hopers, but this is the bad move for you and for town. Buddy c'mon.

(And as for generating reads, Tayl0r -- are you paying attention to how people react to this LLD dynamic, or are you ONLY looking at LLD? If you're only looking at LLD, you're gonna get nothing. Watch the other players too! There's material coming out of LLD's play!)

As for the rest of you -- this is highly Tayl0r-town play. Also, I'm going to just say Pooky's scum, keeps doing this nudging-people-onto-town-wagons thing without actually seeming to push hard. Also deflected from an Isis-scum world too easily and tried to make it seem natural. I like an Isis+Pooky+others (idk yet give me some time) team.

Now!

Coming back to Hopkirk: Hopkirk is entertaining but the play is garbage. Nothing meaningful coming out of it, obfuscatory posting style, half-focused on irrelevant OOG bullshit. I would not be sad to see this slot go down. I'm all for a Hopkirk wagon. I think Noraa on third is a bad idea, but Noraa is doomed ANYWAY and I am willing to risk that on Hopkirk being scum.

I also agree that Zdenek has all the town-posting of a goblin giggling about stealing toys from children. I would love to see Hopkirk and Zdenek go down today.

[UNOwen]

Why uno?

The panicked response to the wagon building against you. Throwing together a read list and your catch up on previous posts looked like desperately trying to reset the game state to defuse the pressure. I recall you being flaily as scum in our first game together.

[Theta Alpine]

I think Noraa on third is a bad idea, but Noraa is doomed ANYWAY and I am willing to risk that on Hopkirk being scum.

why do you think this

please explain

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Because I think Noraa's town. This is one of those things I've already talked about and I can't sway anyone's opinions on by the very nature of my reasons. You can't get inside my head and experience the same base-level reactions to her posting that I do. I have strong town feelings about Noraa, but Noraa's play is absolutely garbo here and all the good reasons to give it a pass were presented by Tayl0r and dismissed by everyone else. There's no point in me even explaining, but I'm doing it again so you can see that it's pointless and not think too hard about it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

lol good joke mush

[UNOwen]

I don't understand this "Noraa as third cursed" plan. If there is a majority who thinks she is scum, then she should get the scroll first.

If Noraa is scum and chooses to "night kill" then fine, we will get another shot.
If Noraa is in fact town then we will be able to work with her to achieve a pro-town shot.
If Noraa is scum and we pick a different scum first, then they know their partner is going down third regardless so they still choose to "night kill" as they have no incentive to do otherwise.
If Noraa is town and we pick scum first, then the same logic holds - they know we are going to kill Noraa third, they "night kill" and let us kill Noraa.

If we pick town, then scum second, then scum "night kills" regardless of Noraa's alignment and we have to deal with Noraa next phase.

What am I missing?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Noraa is like 1000% scum at this point

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Starting this post before I finish catching up to say /Tayl0r/ what is /up/ this LLD play is like exactly parallel to my town play and I didn't throw the game, I nailed scum Noraa dead on the money! This isn't anti town play from LLD, this is play with subtlety AND a plan (which I DID NOT HAVE in our game). Step back, reframe the gamestate /yourself/ Tayl0r. I know you defend no-hopers, but this is the bad move for you and for town. Buddy c'mon.

(And as for generating reads, Tayl0r -- are you paying attention to how people react to this LLD dynamic, or are you ONLY looking at LLD? If you're only looking at LLD, you're gonna get nothing. Watch the other players too! There's material coming out of LLD's play!)

As for the rest of you -- this is highly Tayl0r-town play. Also, I'm going to just say Pooky's scum, keeps doing this nudging-people-onto-town-wagons thing without actually seeming to push hard. Also deflected from an Isis-scum world too easily and tried to make it seem natural. I like an Isis+Pooky+others (idk yet give me some time) team.

Now!

Coming back to Hopkirk: Hopkirk is entertaining but the play is garbage. Nothing meaningful coming out of it, obfuscatory posting style, half-focused on irrelevant OOG bullshit. I would not be sad to see this slot go down. I'm all for a Hopkirk wagon. I think Noraa on third is a bad idea, but Noraa is doomed ANYWAY and I am willing to risk that on Hopkirk being scum.

I also agree that Zdenek has all the town-posting of a goblin giggling about stealing toys from children. I would love to see Hopkirk and Zdenek go down today.

God you're so fucking town.

I appreciate the kind words. They mean more right now than you might realize.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

If Noraa is in fact town then we will be able to work with her to achieve a pro-town shot

she has already said this is not going to happen if she is town

[Theta Alpine]

fair enough

i originally thought noraa was town myself but really do not want to figure out a read at this point since she is not going to survive the day
though she keeps doing suspicious things but not enough for me to change my mind on being lazy about my read on her

p-edit
we want scum to have the third scroll more then the first scroll
because we want to limit the number of kills scum gets to make and that is how we do it

[Theta Alpine]

If Noraa is in fact town then we will be able to work with her to achieve a pro-town shot.

what percentage of town do you think would actually work with the rest of town when choosing who to shoot
be honest

[UNOwen]

she has already said this is not going to happen if she is town

I have enough respect for Noraa as a player to believe that if town she does not kill someone she thinks is town, regardless of what she is saying right now.

p-edit
we want scum to have the third scroll more then the first scroll
because we want to limit the number of kills scum gets to make and that is how we do it

But we most want scum to have first and third scroll, which allows them to get a kill no matter what order we choose in this phase.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

what she was saying about killing LLD was to justify her kill of LLD.

as soon as she saw we were going to un-wagon her and slot her at 3 instead, she was like NOOOO GIVE ME THE SCROLL.

Which further shows she is def-scum.

[UNOwen]

what percentage of town do you think would actually work with the rest of town when choosing who to shoot
be honest

No-one is going to take instruction.
I am an optimist though, I think most town players would at least consult on who they will go for.

[Theta Alpine]

she has already said this is not going to happen if she is town

I have enough respect for Noraa as a player to believe that if town she does not kill someone she thinks is town, regardless of what she is saying right now.

p-edit
we want scum to have the third scroll more then the first scroll
because we want to limit the number of kills scum gets to make and that is how we do it

But we most want scum to have first and third scroll, which allows them to get a kill no matter what order we choose in this phase.

she made an argument that killing lambdadelta was a good idea because their play is anti-town
without an argument that lambdadelta is scum
sooo

and yeah s-t-s is preferable
but that requires scum to have the third scroll so
we are comparing putting our highest scumread first and putting our highest scumread third
and between s-t-t and t-t-s the later is better

[UNOwen]

what she was saying about killing LLD was to justify her kill of LLD.

as soon as she saw we were going to un-wagon her and slot her at 3 instead, she was like NOOOO GIVE ME THE SCROLL.

Which further shows she is def-scum.

Yes I saw that, I do not think she has much chance of actually being town.
The problem is if we hit non-Noraa scum first then they can just kill LLD anyway, so what is the upside?

[Noraa]

Starting this post before I finish catching up to say /Tayl0r/ what is /up/ this LLD play is like exactly parallel to my town play

I disagree. You were not overpowering to this extent.

[Toogeloo]

we want scum to have the third scroll more then the first scroll
because we want to limit the number of kills scum gets to make and that is how we do it

This is a fallacy.

We don't intentionally save scum for third and possibly kill two town to get to them. If we think we have scum, we try to get them first AND third. Second slot should in most cases be more likely town than scum.

Trying to play differently is wrong.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Yes I saw that, I do not think she has much chance of actually being town.
The problem is if we hit non-Noraa scum first then they can just kill LLD anyway, so what is the upside?

the upside is that if we miss on first-scroll we get a shot on 2nd.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like let's say we have Noraa as conf-scum, and we are all definitely shooting her with 3rd scroll.

We can either do

Noraa -> LLD -> 1 shot at hitting scum

or

1 shot at hitting scum - > 2nd shot at hitting scum - > Noraa

[Noraa]

Because I think Noraa's town. This is one of those things I've already talked about and I can't sway anyone's opinions on by the very nature of my reasons. You can't get inside my head and experience the same base-level reactions to her posting that I do. I have strong town feelings about Noraa, but Noraa's play is absolutely garbo here and all the good reasons to give it a pass were presented by Tayl0r and dismissed by everyone else. There's no point in me even explaining, but I'm doing it again so you can see that it's pointless and not think too hard about it.

If you strongly feel it, mush please help me. My town play is garbo as shown in my three finished town games BUT I always make the correct decision towards the end
first one, I was JKer and I jailed two vanilla town and my solve was two other vanillas yet I ended up leading town to victory by nailing the last scum day 3
second one, I kinda fucked up by tunneling a townie but nonetheless the scum was the one I was going to kill in limlo in case the townie was town(which he was)
third one, I vigged two prs but made the right decision and vigged the last scum at night which lead to a singular townie being alive and a town win(that game was really messy)