Mini Normal 2170: Stuff I’m Listening To [Game Over]

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 3.6

Panzerjager

(3): OutWorldER, Gamma Emerald, Blitzo

OutWorldER

(1): The Bulge

Gamma Emerald

(1): Kasumeat

Not_Mafia

(1): Panzerjager

The Bulge

(1): Thestatusquo

Not voting

(2): Not_Mafia, PookyTheMagicalBear

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to yeet someone.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-11-04 16:30:00)

[Gamma Emerald]

Despite having professed an insane amount of confidence, NM still isn't voting OWER
If we're not gonna massclaim today I'm good with putting Panzer to L-1 right now

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

im kinda wary of massclaims after that disaster during you know what.

[PJ.]

Mass claim dumb...

[Gamma Emerald]

That was a Day 2 massclaim that ignored the fact that doing so gave scum a giant hole to fly through
Here I don't think scum has anything in particular that would offer them that sort of ez pass, and we're also in limlo-1, which is a better place to massclaim than limlo, because a direct CC in limlo can't be properly culled.

[The Bulge]

Here's what I think is going on:

re:outworld, I'm not talking about optimal play or what x would reasonably do in y situation. I'm clearly not implying he is playing optimally or within his partners' wishes.

I think this is borderline a scum slip. I think outworldER is likely scum. I think you are upset with his play and you are trying desperately to bus him because you want the town credit for that. I think the sum total of your play this game has been taking vague pot shots at people and then not actually pressuring them when they don't stick with the town. The original thrust of your post today was trying to force the wagon onto me instead of outworldER. Oh, sure, you were voting outworldER, but the majority of your analysis and posts were on me being scum. Now that its clear no one is biting we're back to just aggressively pushing outworldER despite the fact that it doesn't make any sense to kill an IC claim that will resolve itself tomorrow to do so.

As justification for that you have, what? A vague insinuation that they could be trying to get another role cop and the claim that somehow outworldER was the likely elim today anyway? That's just preposterous. Even if he was under heat there's no reason to believe he was more likely than anyone else to get elim'd today. (I know you're going to pick up on my vocab choices again, but this time you do so could you actually address the points I'm attaching them to instead of just listing "ridiculous preposterous absurd" in an attempt to discredit me without in any way addressing my arguments? kthx) Even if he WAS there was no reason to set this up by soft claiming yesterday. The play just makes no sense from a scum perspective and you know. Hell, you even said you know it in the post I quoted here. Now we're supposed to believe there's some nefarious plot to get another role cop that we don't even know is in the game? Fucking hell dude.

VOTE: The Bulge

that doesn't make any sense. how am I getting town credit from this? how is the way I've gone about pushing for this elim in any way conducive to gaining townie points?

I don't need to analyze outworld besides for associatives. I do need to find who his partners are. and who said I dropped anything against you? I never started a push there so I don't know what you think I was forcing.

nope, the rolecop thing is a possibility with absolutely no reason to disbelieve, but my running theory has always been that it was simply a bad claim. Like I said, maybe he was no more likely than anyone else to be today's elim regardless of claim, but from his pov especially with people calling directly for his claim very very early in the day, I'm sure it didn't seem that way to ansty outworldscum.

[The Bulge]

We 100% should massclaim. Bulge and Shea hit the point I wanted to avoid in their talks so I think there’s no reason not to massclaim

There's no reason to massclaim.

That was a Day 2 massclaim that ignored the fact that doing so gave scum a giant hole to fly through
Here I don't think scum has anything in particular that would offer them that sort of ez pass, and we're also in limlo-1, which is a better place to massclaim than limlo, because a direct CC in limlo can't be properly culled.

uhhhhh what gives you that impression? we have zero information on what scum has

[The Bulge]

Interesting. I hadn't really considered a Bulge-OW scumteam given that OW is one of my top TRs and there are so many other players that I'm SRing but this actually explains Bulge's insane push on OW here, which was mind boggling from both a scum!Bulge and town!Bulge perspective. But this make sense.

Bulge, other than OW, who are your top SRs right now? TRs?

NM pooky kasu town
Shea and gamma are probably outworld's partners but eh I could see panzer
blitzo I need to completely re-evaluate

[The Bulge]

please ignore Panzer's scumbuddy.

Bulge wagon is also bad because the case (from my POV) seems to be based on associations with me and while I can definitely see why you all would think that's plausible it's unfortunately untrue and that can be confirmed tomorrow.

we elim Panzer today, I accept no substitutes.

I don't agree with this. I think the bulge is scummy regardless of your alignment, and I believe that pushing to get a player who would be confirmed the next day elim'd has a lot of scum motivation if you did end up being town.

I haven't gotten him elimmed have I? will I? unlikely.

what's the motivation when he flips red? was the claim all a setup to give me cred? which I am now failing miserably at getting?

[Thestatusquo]

lol

[The Bulge]

could you actually address my points instead of just saying "lol" in an attempt to discredit me without in any way addressing my arguments? kthx

[The Bulge]

both those are huge stretches.

why is bad scum who got nervous and didnt wait for his partners a stretch?

why is scum invest results a stretch?

this too please

[Thestatusquo]

You didn't make any points. You said you wouldn't get town credit for pushing a bus on your scum buddy. I'm not gunna explain the very basics of mafia to you if that's the kind of argument you're going to make.

[OutWorldER]

I don't think there's any reason to mass-claim, mainly because (and this will probably be Outguessing the Mod but eh) I don't think there are a whole lot of PR's left, if any. And if there are any investigatives left, I'd rather them remain hidden for now so I can eat the NK and they can post their results tomorrow.

[The Bulge]

You didn't make any points. You said you wouldn't get town credit for pushing a bus on your scum buddy. I'm not gunna explain the very basics of mafia to you if that's the kind of argument you're going to make.

why are you talking as if this game only exists in theory? how does the way I'm roguepushing outworld make sense if I'm trying for town cred? how is overtly playing against optimal town strategy in the case of leaving a claimed day x ic alive look to you like I'm vying for town cred?

[The Bulge]

like come on I'm obviously rocking the boat a shit tonne here, what you're saying is just not based in reality

I'd expect you to be able to actually tell me why I am wrong if I were.

[Thestatusquo]

So you admit that you're playing against optimal town strategy? Yet you still want to do it?

You did not know that town would react that way when you started your push, and continuing to ram through a elim against minor opposition as you were trying to do before I made my mind up about this (and still are to an extent) is definitely a play scum make to try to gain town cred. Hell, I basically did the exact same thing you're doing right now to CES in whiteflag. Different situations, but take an elim that may or may not happen today and push it until it topples over, oh they're scum? Cool. Who would have guessed!

You're now trying to claim that there would be no town cred for pushing a red elim and that's just patently false. That's literally just not how mafia works.

[Thestatusquo]

And don't think I haven't noticed how you've taken great pains to respond to the case where he flips red what that means for you and not what it would mean for you if he flips green. Can't think of any reason why you'd be more interested in arguing one case over the other no sireee.

[The Bulge]

"optimal strategy" talk, again, is for vacuums. I see scum, I want it dead. it's not hard to understand. is your angle now that I should hang for being anti-town? I'm also not going to walk you through step by step how I scumhunt but I know you've been around long enough to recognize nuance.

I mean if I get what I really want and outworld hangs today and bleeds red, yea I'd fucking hope for a little bit of credit as the only person who didn't buy his horseshit.

[The Bulge]

he's not flipping green. if he does then my town confidence will probably take a hit for a few games lol. not to mention tomorrow I'd have my head on the block in limlo. so yea it'd be pretty fucking bad, but I'm not worried about that.

[The Bulge]

actually that has me thinking. if the claim is legit, scum would LOVE for me to push this through today for an easy double-miselim setup. curious that isn't happening huh

[Thestatusquo]

How have you scumhunted at all until today? Does nuance mean basically not giving a crap until it comes time to push outworlder?

I mean if I get what I really want and outworld hangs today and bleeds red, yea I'd fucking hope for a little bit of credit as the only person who didn't buy his horseshit.

that doesn't make any sense. how am I getting town credit from this? how is the way I've gone about pushing for this elim in any way conducive to gaining townie points?

lol

[The Bulge]

I admit I'm not a great teamplayer when it comes to town. I don't spew every thought that comes to mind because why would I telegraph my movements to the scum I'm trying to hunt. that's all I'll say.

those quotes look nice side by side but they don't contradict each other.

I'll give you that your discrediting of my discrediting was a nice touch but it doesn't work if you're going to be a hypocrite about it.

VOTE: tsq

[The Bulge]

How have you scumhunted at all until today?

I gave my team prediction very early this phase, I've been reading old pages (not so much the last few days as I have been busy), I've been actively engaging my reads. I don't need to post a readslist or a case or list out every little thing that catches my attention to qualify as scumhunting, and you fucking know that.

[Thestatusquo]

Oh so now you want me eliminated instead of the person you said was 100% to be scum?

Cool dude. Please die.