Mini 624 - Game Over!

[geraintm]

Geraintm is also pretty high up on the list because of a general lack of activity. The town seemed pretty satisfied with attacking me for not posting much... go back and take a look at what geraintm's posted. And now he comes in with a "i think i might vote for you because there's no one better?"

SC's posts continue to rub me the wrong way, but I've already stated my reasons for not believing him.

I would support Litral's idea for a no lynch, but I honestly think it's better to get me out of the way.

no one has commented on my lack of posting realyl before? i was away last week from wednesday to monday but apart from that i feel i have been here and contributing. cougar has just said i should speak up more, but what am i not talking about??
sorry if my last post was bad and said i cant think of anyone else to vote for, but that was actually following a few posts where i was questioning you and waiting for your answers

bat, i dont follow your post. the daily posting average thing, is that how many posts i have made a day??

are you later claiming in post 596 that you think one of the peopel you have already investigated is scum, or are you saying you think it is cougar?

There's a big difference. Scummy is a move that is beneficial for scum, whereas anti-town is a move that hurts the town. but at the same time does not benefit scum if a scum member does it.

you do realise that it is practicalyl impossible to tell teh difference until teh game has finished, right?

[geraintm]

note: due to bank holiday,w ont be posting after today till tuesday

[Battousai]

In some instances, you do have to wait until end game, but the reasons SC came up you can tell are anti-town without waiting till end game. Just ask yourself, "If the player is scum, how is that action beneficial?"

Daily posting is each GAME DAY.

What I'm saying is, either the claimed role is lieing and is scum (SC), or I'm a sane cop.

I have to say it is somewhat scummy that Batt seems completely unwilling to leave any room for the (slight though it is) chance that he is a sane cop

Really?

Reason being, I'm either a Naive cop OR StrangeCoug and/or Wumbo are scum (I'm leaning towards SC based on D1)

Now I'm willing to concede SC could be innocent (I haven't investigated him, so it's not fact)

If I'm a sane cop, then either SC or Wumbo is scum
If I'm naive cop, then ANYONE could be scum
If I'm scum, then NO ONE is scum (assuming 1 scum left)

I had my vote on SC all day up to my post 25. Please show me how that is me leaving out the fact that I could be sane?

The reason I believe Wumbo to be innocent is from D1. I don't read that as DWS bussing his partner (he even voted Wumbo without knowing the vote count).

(I'll explain the logic of that if you really want me to, but it will be helping scum.)

It's common sense. If scum say they are a sane cop and receives a guilty and the town lynch them the result has to be correct or they are outted as scum.

are you later claiming in post 596 that you think one of the peopel you have already investigated is scum, or are you saying you think it is cougar?

post 596 is me trying to tell SC that his points against Wumbo are anti-town, which they are. I feel that either Cougar is scum or someone I investigated is scum.

[Cass]

Well, in that case we should lynch SC and you should investigate Wumbo. It makes little sense to want to lynch geraint or me today, unless you can make a strong case against one of us.

So if you are really convinced of this, could you make a case on SC? I thought his claim was credible, can you tell me what makes you doubt it? Do you have any reasons to consider him scum, other than that you think day 1 wasn't bussing?

[Wumbo]

I would be far more happy with that as my suspicion with SC hasn't really diminished much.

And yes I voted Cass even though in the end I thought she could be town. She was antsy to kill DWS though it could have just been that she wanted to kill him to look innocent. I just voted to make it 2v2 for votes and to have her talk as well.

My reason for geraintm is that "no one better" is an awfully vague reason to vote, and keeps you conveniently just out of the fray.

I'm not gonna make excuses about my Day 1 play. I didn't and still don't have much forum mafia experience. But the votes on me weren't all that important till the bandwagon was about to start. I've said it before and I'll say it again that lurking is not necessarily bad on a slow Day 1. Hell, Litral pulled the same stunt later on in the thread "I'm reading, but not participating in this discussion" and absolutely NOTHING happened to him. ;D I wasn't the only one: I just happened to say it out loud. I'll know to keep my mouth shut next time.

Also, your last bit of evidence, SC, doesn't inherently show scum play or anti town play. You just offered a bit of evidence from the random vote phase -_-. If I presented my case that nhat was scum because he voted geraintm Day 1 for having a weird avatar it would be laughable. The situations are similar.

I'm glad Batt believes me. XD I wuold have been inclined to vote myself and put it at L-1 but there's someone who doesn't want me to. Woo.

[Battousai]

The case against SC has already been made and he defended himself already. But if you want me to rehash it, I will.

1) The first post by a living player today was SC claiming. The reason he claimed was because nhat told everyone to basically keep an eye on SC. By SC's points against Wumbo, SC is even guiltier because she claimed without even being voted for. Also, why would you be so worried other players would look into your posts? No one would lynch you just because Nhat said you were suspicious for not wanting anything to do with lynching Godot or DWS.

2) Litral made a good point that if SC was roleblocked N2, as he claims, why wasn't he roleblocked the next night. N2, scum successfully killed a claimed powerrole. They would roleblock SC again, or kill SC, to make sure their kill would be successfull. SC originally claimed that the roleblocker has to be protown and mistakenly roleblocked him. We know now, that's not the case.

3) SC unvotes me, to vote himself for misreading my claim. Says he's royally screwed over, and voted Wumbo to get him to talk. Claims I'm lieing then votes me. Then switches back to Wumbo as more people voiced their opinions.

He's royally screwed over? I think only if you were scum you would be royally screwed over. If he thought I was lieing, he'd still should have kept his vote on me after the counterclaim mishap, but instead panicks and votes himself.

4) Litral finds a past post of SC concerning Max, which SC hasn't responded to yet.

maxwellhouse, I have a question: If you investigated Dark wingstalker and he came back as guilty, then why are you worrying about sanity rather than voting him?

FoS: maxwellhouse

Why would you FOS someone that you knew was protown?

Those are the main points that have been brought up today.

[StrangerCoug]

1) The first post by a living player today was SC claiming. The reason he claimed was because nhat told everyone to basically keep an eye on SC. By SC's points against Wumbo, SC is even guiltier because she claimed without even being voted for. Also, why would you be so worried other players would look into your posts? No one would lynch you just because Nhat said you were suspicious for not wanting anything to do with lynching Godot or DWS.

Everyone you refer to in this point is male, so I don't know who you mean by "she".

As for nhat saying I was suspicious, I claimed as a precautionary measure.

2) Litral made a good point that if SC was roleblocked N2, as he claims, why wasn't he roleblocked the next night. N2, scum successfully killed a claimed powerrole. They would roleblock SC again, or kill SC, to make sure their kill would be successfull. SC originally claimed that the roleblocker has to be protown and mistakenly roleblocked him. We know now, that's not the case.

Why I didn't get roleblocked night 3 confuses me too, but remember, he or she didn't know night 2 that I was a tracker.

3) SC unvotes me, to vote himself for misreading my claim. Says he's royally screwed over, and voted Wumbo to get him to talk. Claims I'm lieing then votes me. Then switches back to Wumbo as more people voiced their opinions.

He's royally screwed over? I think only if you were scum you would be royally screwed over. If he thought I was lieing, he'd still should have kept his vote on me after the counterclaim mishap, but instead panicks and votes himself.

Counterclaims almost always imply that you're either a power role or scum; however, I say "almost always" for a reason, as maxwellhouse counterclaimed chenhsi's cop claim and they both turned out to be the cop.

4) Litral finds a past post of SC concerning Max, which SC hasn't responded to yet.

maxwellhouse, I have a question: If you investigated Dark wingstalker and he came back as guilty, then why are you worrying about sanity rather than voting him?

FoS: maxwellhouse

Why would you FOS someone that you knew was protown?

Damn it >< He was worrying about sanity issues more than I felt was warranted, however.

[Battousai]

1) The point was that you didn't need to take precautions

2) That's not the point. Scum probably would think that you were the doc, since they were able to kill a power role with you roleblocked.

3) How does that explain the reason you voted yourself, instead of keeping the vote on me?

4) How does a cop over worrying about sanity = suspicious?

The only reason I'm NOT voting you anymore is because it seems the general opinion is not to lynch either of the claimed power roles. If more people would be willing to vote either of us, I'd switch my vote back.

[StrangerCoug]

2) That's not the point. Scum probably would think that you were the doc, since they were able to kill a power role with you roleblocked.

Hence the confusion, though I now understand why scum would most likely do this.

3) How does that explain the reason you voted yourself, instead of keeping the vote on me?

I realized you didn't counterclaim, and my voting you claiming you did so left a black mark on me.

4) How does a cop over worrying about sanity = suspicious?

He was withholding his vote on Dark wingstalker in doing so, and it seemed like he was trying to protect him.

[Cass]

Going to play devil's advocate for Strangercoug here a bit. I am not

sure

that SC is town, but the case on him does not convince me he's scum either.

- SC claims first. This was a bit panicky, but I can easily see a townie doing it. If true, it was a useful claim, gave the town quite some information. Also, it's highly likely that SC would have had to claim today no matter what. So this doesn't feel too scummy to me.

- He wasn't roleblocked N3. This makes me think the roleblocker can't block and kill in the same night. He took the risk SC wasn't a doc and killed the huge threat, nhat. Logical course of action for the last scum, I'd say. He couldn't afford to keep nhat around.

- Yes, the self-voting and voting/unvoting record is strange. I don't get why SC is so extremely jumpy. This is the one thing that makes me doubt everything else.

- I don't find the FoS on Maxwell too scummy on first sight - it was a confusing situation and I too had a weird feeling about Max' behaviour. (Even voted him at first, heh.) The problem of course is that SC had tracked Max and knew he wasn't lying. So yes, this is a point against him as well...

I still lean town on him. If with serious doubts. Though he made some mistakes, they don't seem like a thought out scum-tactic. And his claim

is

rather thought out if he's really scum.
However, if we lynch SC today and he is town - that lands us in a really bad LyLo situation. One more reason I'd rather we lynch a claimed vanilla today. Beside the fact that Wumbo seems scummier to me, it would also gives us a LyLo with some information...

[Litral]

That's a remarkably weak devil's advocate

I'm going to suggest no lynch again. Suppose Coug is scum, he won't die, and he must tell us someone is town, which would confirm another one of us - preferably either Wumbo or Cass. That would make things much easier since we still have 2 lynches.

[Cass]

Yes, I could only think of a defense for half the points, sorry

Perhaps you are right, no lynch might actually get us in a better LyLo situation, considering the lack of consensus we have now. So. The two options I'll consider today are a Wumbo lynch and No lynch. I don't want to lynch anyone else.

[Battousai]

Living players
Cass
Wumbo
StrangerCoug
Battousai
geraintm
Litral

A no lynch would result in one person being killed in this phase (either myself or SC). That leaves 5 alive going into the next phase. Lets say I died. If SC is scum, she can claim Cass targetted me last night. You lynch Cass and she SC lied. The next day Litral is dead. The remaining players are Geraintm, SC, and Wumbo. If there are two scum left then it's game over. If it's there's one then it's a town win.

.... If SC is scum and claimed that Wumbo did not leave his house. Who would we lynch? The claimed tracker (who is alive because scum can only kill one of us power roles), Geraintm, or Litral. Let's say Geraintm gets lynched. The next night wumbo dies and its SC and litral left. Scum win

.... If SC is not scum and claims Wumbo did not leave the house. That leaves SC, Geraintm, or Litral as scum. It's Lylo, because if you lynch incorrectly scum win, if you vote no lynch, the next day is lylo.

.... Best case scenerio, SC is town and gets a guilty result.

If we lynch today:

Wumbo is lynched and I'm NK'd. The next day the remaining players would be Cass, Litral, Geraintm, and SC. It's lylo if you lynch that day or lylo the next day if you vote no lynch. If SC-scum says she got a guilty in either of those days you have to lynch the claimed tracker or her guilty result. 50/50 chance of a town win statistically.

It seems to me a no lynch is the best option right now

UNVOTE, Vote: No Lynch

[Litral]

SC promise not to check Battousai.

[Litral]

Oh and Battousai claims first, then SC, just in case SC did check Battousai, assuming both are alive.

[StrangerCoug]

If SC is scum and claimed that Wumbo did not leave his house.

Stop confusing the tracker with the reporter.

Best case scenerio, SC is town and gets a guilty result.

I am not the cop, so I can't directly prove one's guilt.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP:

If SC-scum says she got a guilty

I am male.

[Litral]

I am not the cop, so I can't directly prove one's guilt.

Yes you can, if a blue visited someone who died, the blue is scummy scum.

[Cass]

Why could you not prove someone's guilt or innocence? Seems to me that in this situation you could. And if Wumbo is honestly vanilla, both reporter and tracker would get a 'did not leave house' result, right?

[StrangerCoug]

Why could you not prove someone's guilt or innocence? Seems to me that in this situation you could. And if Wumbo is honestly vanilla, both reporter and tracker would get a 'did not leave house' result, right?

True, but remember that the tracker also gets the person's target if any. If I targeted Battousai and he went after, say, geraintm, and geraintm is still alive, then either Battousai forwent his kill to block geraintm or Battousai really is the cop (this assumes the roleblocker can't perform both a kill and a block).

[Battousai]

SC: Why are you getting all antsy about my terminology? You know what I meant by Wumbo did not leave his house. That is implying you track wumbo and wumbo did not leave his home.

Also, for the record, I'm pretty sure a roleblocker never has to forfeit his/her ability to kill if they are the last mafia member alive. I have never seen a game like that as it hampers the mafia. In this game, the town is kind of powerful so I really don't see that as happening at all.

[StrangerCoug]

SC: Why are you getting all antsy about my terminology? You know what I meant by Wumbo did not leave his house. That is implying you track wumbo and wumbo did not leave his home.

Gotcha.

Also, for the record, I'm pretty sure a roleblocker never has to forfeit his/her ability to kill if they are the last mafia member alive. I have never seen a game like that as it hampers the mafia. In this game, the town is kind of powerful so I really don't see that as happening at all.

I don't see a war of attrition going on either.

It also seems to be that we're not getting anywhere with a lynch, so I'm going to

unvote

and

vote: No Lynch

.

[Wumbo]

1) it's my birthday
2) i'm goin drinking

post stuff later

XD

[Wumbo]

Well then.

unvote;

vote: no lynch

Seems to be the best option.

I'll be v/la for most of the week as classes are starting and so is fraternity rush.

[Litral]

unvote, vote: No lynch