Open 88 - Polygamist Mafia (Game Over) before 650

[Xtoxm]

Vote Count

Zoolander (0)
Farside22 (0)
Citizen Karne (0)
LlamaFluff (1) Farside22
Goatrevolt (0)
Jahudo (1) Zoolander
OpposedForce (1) LlamaFluff
armlx (1) Adel
Caboose (1) Goatrevolt
3fj (0)
kloud1516 (1) 3fj
Adel (5) armlx, Citizen Karne, Caboose, OpposedForce, Kloud1516

Not Voting (1) Jahudo

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

[farside22]

I have been prodded. Sorry about that. I'm a bit busy today. I owe this game time.

[kloud1516]

I too am trying to catch up. Sorry everyone.

[Xtoxm]

Mana_Ku replaces 3fj.

Thnx muchly!

[Mana_Ku]

I also try to catch up ASAP. I'll let you know what I think when I'm ready.

[Jahudo]

I believe noobtown would (in the overwhelming majority of cases) not propose a strategy in a game, as they are usually more unsure of themselves.

I understand the logic behind this as a noob strategy, but who ever uses logic? There’s a lot of reasons why they may want to be the first to suggest a strategy because it could appear pro-active and helpful to the town. That is, if it’s a good idea. Reckless, but I don’t believe it’s uncommon to find around here. Do the experienced players agree or disagree?
-------------------------------

Ah, so now lynching someone for wanting to lynch someone for an EXTREMELY anti-town plan is now scummy?

Is it now scummy because she wanted to lynch someone for wanting to lynch someone for anti-town plan?

Was Jebus pre-gaming to go after kloud a tell after seeing how he entered into the game with his random vote but claiming not to understand random votes at the same time? It was his excuse to vote kloud but was he maybe upset that it might not carry the weight he had hoped? That's my best guess.

[Xtoxm]

StrangerCoug replaces Zoolander. Nice one

Nearly got a full cast again now!

[StrangerCoug]

Hello

Let me read the thread...

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, and

unvote

if necessary.

[StrangerCoug]

First off, I didn't exactly want the massclaim, but I cannot overrule it since it's all said and done. Makes for interesting play, though.

Zoolander voting the mod wasn't good play by him/her. I'm sorry.

Minor FoS: Caboose

for waiting until page 7 to remove a random vote.

Unless you were ready to lynch Jebus and 3fj before Abel replaced in

I was.

ah, so Armix is all about lynching newbie for making a mistake based off of inexperience, and keeping this day limited to one wagon. got it.

unvote, vote:armix

Vote: Adel

for OMGUS.

[armlx]

Is it now scummy because she wanted to lynch someone for wanting to lynch someone for anti-town plan?

Yes, especially in the context of the vote being OMGUS.

[Mana_Ku]

Finally done. And I'm almost gone out of this game.

First of all, can't you all think? You are all following one player of one lover pair, while we have 4 good lover pairs and one bad one consisting out of 4 people. But all you have been doing is commenting on Adel/Jebus play. This is what I call tunnel vision. Didn't you guys say that the town loses with two mislynches? Then tell me why you are all focusing on one group?

Next would be Llama's discussion with OF. Many didn't even follow it, or they did but didn't say a thing. After a few large posts, there are some who are going to read it through, however nobody gives a comment about it. Can anyone explain me why?

Then we have the post of the lover pair 3fj and jebus. I don't know if you have seen it, but there are only two people talking. NOT FOUR. Also they are talking about catching mafia. Strange enough, nobody notices that. But other things were boldprinted sometimes. In this post you can also see what the plan of Jebus was. I'm talking about the random lynching plan of which you gave a lot of comments on, that it's not helpful. However as you can see Jebus thought it was useful. It also explains why Jebus didn't wait for the popcorn claiming. Also this wasn't boldprinted.
And if you say again that this is a false message, then ask me for the link. I'm confident enough to give to you. I believe that if you'd ask the other players, four of them won't give their link. For those who don't know who I'm talking about, I'm talking about the scum.

My last thing before I stop writing is regarding SC's last post. You vote Adel as you see her post as an OMGUS vote. Adel voted him as she said that 3fj and Jebus were unexperienced. From the looks of writing their lover-message, I agree with it. Tell me, why you see her vote as OMGUS, while she gives a good arguments for voting him, while you don't.

I hope that you don't mind that I'm writng this with anger for it pains me that I see all these false arguments about the ones who Adel and I have replaced, while you weren't searching for the real scum.

[StrangerCoug]

I hope that you don't mind that I'm writng this with anger for it pains me that I see all these false arguments about the ones who Adel and I have replaced, while you weren't searching for the real scum.

I saw the reasoning as weak when I first read it, but now that you bring it up and I looked, it makes sense and armlx's vote now looks like an attempt to prevent a lover pair from speaking while the mod's out replacing one of them. Thanks.

Unvote: Adel
Vote: armlx

[armlx]

I hope that you don't mind that I'm writng this with anger for it pains me that I see all these false arguments about the ones who Adel and I have replaced, while you weren't searching for the real scum.

Appeal to emotion.

And if you say again that this is a false message, then ask me for the link. I'm confident enough to give to you. I believe that if you'd ask the other players, four of them won't give their link. For those who don't know who I'm talking about, I'm talking about the scum.

Quoting communication w/ other players = mod killable offense.

I have updated the second bullet point of the rues to make this clear - Mod.

[Mana_Ku]

You seem to be scared, armlx. Is this everything you have to say after my long post? Appeal to emotion and a warning.

You're one of those who said he was going to read Llama-OF's discussion to see if there were any hints. What happened to that?

Why are you only going into the Adel case, while there are 10 more ppl to investigate? And if you do investigate others, tell me. Give those reasons for a change. I know that by lynching one scum they are all gone, but you can't know for sure if someone is scum when you're only investigating one person at a time.
This goes for the others as well. Who do you suspect next to Adel and discuss about those. Talking about one person in a game of twelf isn't helpful for town at all. Just like random lynching.

[Jahudo]

And if you say again that this is a false message, then ask me for the link.

There's the burden of proof because these things can not be shown to others. While the chat explains why Jebus and 3fj acted the way they did, it could also be fake and we can’t be sure even if everybody summarized their own chat posts. I can't explain why, though, and in this case don't want to think that Adel would resort to forgery. This is her setup right?

You make an interesting point about tunnel-visioning this subject, however, because it’s given the opportunity for other people to shy away from conversation altogether and that’s not good.

Next would be Llama's discussion with OF. Many didn't even follow it, or they did but didn't say a thing.

One reason may be that Llama requested replacement and thus could no longer call people’s attention to it or answer people’s questions about it. But here’s how the other groups reacted:

1. Zoo and Pope never got that far into the game to comment but now Coug and Karne are here.

2. Caboose nor Farside commented or said they would.
I’ve been getting a weird vibe from Caboose lately. Posts 149, 165, and 197 look like attempts to stay active without informative contributions. And I can’t help but see post 87 as following the lead without adding a strong opinion. Looks like a couple of safe moves and avoiding this conversation could be another. But I would be more interested to hear what Caboose thinks about Mana’s group accusation of tunnel visioning and ignoring this other investigation.

3.

Sorry for taking longer than I promised to get a post up. I have taken notice of the back-and-forth between LF and OF, but I feel that I will need to go over the content provided in their posts with more scrutiny before I even attempt to comment on it.

Is this part of your catch-up?

I think there is something to be gained from the OF-Llama argument. Not sure what right now, but I'm going to read it a bit closer and see if I can figure it out.

Anything gained?

[Citizen Karne]

Mana_Ku, are you trying to intimidate us into unvoting you? Heavy amounts of pathos do not help your argument. Heavy amounts of logos do, though.

Then we have the post of the lover pair 3fj and jebus. I don't know if you have seen it, but there are only two people talking. NOT FOUR. Also they are talking about catching mafia. Strange enough, nobody notices that.

Do you

really

expect us to believe that the scum would forget to cut out their partners in their daytalk?

Really

? And, do you also expect us to believe scum would be 100% truthful in their daytalk if it incriminated them?

[armlx]

You seem to be scared, armlx. Is this everything you have to say after my long post? Appeal to emotion and a warning.

Those 2 points were pretty much the whole of your post.

And lol's at the trying to apply emotion to my posts in an attempt to make them look scummy.

You're one of those who said he was going to read Llama-OF's discussion to see if there were any hints. What happened to that?

Without any other alignment reveals, I didn't feel there was enough information to go off from it.

Why are you only going into the Adel case, while there are 10 more ppl to investigate?

Because those actions are easily the scummiest in the game by far, and 90% of the other actions in the game revolve around the results of this wagon?

[Mana_Ku]

@ armlx If you aren't scared then explain why the only thing you said was a warning about the link. When the chat first was mentioned by adel there were many who quoted it and made bold parts of the arguments they saw as suspicious.
And tell me why adel would leave things like 'I'll go after kloud' or 'early role claim would make us a target' in the message, but left 'the other two scum' out of it. If she wanted to give the message an innocent look, she would have erased those as well. This part is for CK as well.

I also thought that IC's of newbie games would look more closely when it could be a newbie talking. At least that's what I notice most of the times. Don't you do that in newbie games? If you don't, why not? If you do, why not here?

[armlx]

If you aren't scared then explain why the only thing you said was a warning about the link. When the chat first was mentioned by adel there were many who quoted it and made bold parts of the arguments they saw as suspicious.

Adel posted a summary. You were going to post a link.

To put it into context, summarizing your role in a normal game is ok. Copy Pasting the PM to the thread is not.

And tell me why adel would leave things like 'I'll go after kloud' or 'early role claim would make us a target' in the message, but left 'the other two scum' out of it. If she wanted to give the message an innocent look, she would have erased those as well. This part is for CK as well.

For extra WIFOMy goodness.

I also thought that IC's of newbie games would look more closely when it could be a newbie talking. At least that's what I notice most of the times. Don't you do that in newbie games? If you don't, why not? If you do, why not here?

Because the discussion looks deliberate and scum oriented.

[Mana_Ku]

This isn't an answer at all.

First of all, if I wanted to post the link I would have done it in that post. You took it serious and told that it isn't allowed to do so. To me this appears as if you don't want to see the chat, while others reacted to it when Adel posted the text. Back then, you didn't give any comments as well. Only to a thing Caboose has said.

And if it was WIFOM, then tell me why Adel didn't use it.

Now comes the part where you didn't give an aswer to. Don't you look carefully at newbies in newbie games? How many times is there a newbie killed, because he looked scummy, while he was actually making newbie mistakes? If you don't look into it, why not? If you do, why not here?

Besides if this game has been 90% about Jebus, 3fj, Adel and me then what are you going to do after we get lynched? Then you'll look into other people with only one day left here. Isn't that risky?

Also how come you don't see Jebus actions as newbie?

To Caboose In post 168 you say this :'I think that townies would be more worried about finding scum than avoiding suspicion themselves.'
If this game has only two days before scum wins, isn't it OK to avoid suspicion? If they wouldn't look suspicious each town team has a better chance of finding the real scum. We have 6 teams of which 2 are bad. If your team is town and Jebus team didn't look suspicious, you had four teams left to investigate.
The next time you spoke, you voted Adel. Only because she said something what she thought Jebus and 3fj meant and perhaps some other reasons. If there are some other reasons, please tell them.

For now, I've seen one post of somebody who suspects

two

pairs. You guys should try that as well as tunnel vision isn't appreciated in newbie games, but I'm sure armlx knows all about that. That's why I want to know why CK voted for Adel, while he would also be happy to vote armlx, kloud or me. (post 171)

[Xtoxm]

Empking replaces LlamaFluff.

Full game again now, thanks a lot!

[Empking]

Hi.

[Mana_Ku]

hey, good luck catching up.

[Xtoxm]

Goatrevolt and OpposedForce prodded.