Mafia 82: International (Game Over)

[hasdgfas]

Here come pages 11-15:

Post 250-SC: Which one and why? When you say that, explain.

Post 252-Korts: Excellent post.

Post 262-untitled: Yep, expected and just as scummy as expected

Post 265-MM: This is actually a very good question

Post 275-nhat: No, please.

Post 276-nhat: *headdesk* What the heck is this? Ridiculous, that's what I see.

Post 283-nhat: Even more craplogic for something that isn't close to correct.

Post 286-nhat: Thank you for another useful post....

Post 295-nhat: So you're using Too Townie as a scumtell then? Please don't.

Post 308-earth: Another good post by earthworm.

Post 309-raider: I dislike these types of posts immensely.

Post 314-morph: Don't random vote on a double-digit page ever. kthnxbye.

Post 323-veronica: ehhhhhh, I see where you're coming from, but I have to disagree. Good vote placement though, it appears.

Post 327-MM: What is this referring to? And why is this all you're saying?

Post 342-nhat: This is another terrible post. That's not what people are doing at all.

Post 351-Dynamo: Just an all around bad post.

Post 353-Dynamo: Feels like distancing with one or both of them, because he didn't go nearly as far with the cases in 351 as he could and he didn't vote either.

Post 357-cris: And why, exactly?

Post 360-max: Pre-game can have real discussion too. Don't ignore it just because of the name.

Post 362-morph: You haven't read this game at all, have you?

Post 367-raider: Oh look, another "I can't contribute because of stuff" post.

Post 369-SC: OK, but why not get used to it?

Post 370-nhat: Wow, overreaction. Note that I wasn't caught up yet and had all of 2-3 posts at that point. Plus, I said I was neutral on you at that point.


Latest reads:
Dynamo-Scum
morph-neutral, leaning scum depending on if he reads the game in the upcoming pages
nhat-scum. Overreactions and craplogic and misrepresentation(my vote would be here if I was caught up here)
untitled-not as much scum as before, surprisingly, but I'm still slightly leaning that way.
SC-I'm feeling neutral here right now. Some bad stuff, and some not bad stuff.
armlx-town so far. Good points, but a very good player, so I can't really say much so far.
earthworm-I'm leaning very town on him right now. Excellent points in all of his posts, even if he's not as prolific as some.


that's it for now. Expect pages 16-20 later tonight after my night class.

[skitzer]

Lowell will replace PeterGriffin.

Vote Count Seven of Day One

(4) nhat: Lowell, Erratus Apathos, animorpherv1, Cass
(4) Erratus Apathos: nhat, DynamoXI, Cephrir, StrangerCoug
(3) Cass: Netlava, Veronica13, OpposedForce
(2) StrangerCoug: Battle Mage, Snaps_The_Pirate
(1) Battle Mage: Untitled
(1) DynamoXI: armlx
(1) Untitled: cerebus3
(1) Netlava: Cyberbob
(1) wolframnhart: Korts

(8) Not Voting: raider8169, cris150, Mr. T, maxwellhouse, Citizen Karne, MafiaMann, earthworm, hasdgfas

With 26 alive, it takes 14 votes to lynch!

Last Post Count Seven of Day One

Key:
Green - posted in last 24 hours
Yellow - posted in last 48 hours
Orange - Posted in last 72 hours
Red - Posted more than 72 hours ago, prodded
Dark Red - Requiring Replacement
Dark Blue - Vacation/Limited Access

Cyberbob

Netlava

raider8169

MafiaMann

Untitled

armlx

Cass

Battle Mage

StrangerCoug

Cephrir

animorpherv1

hasdgfas

Korts

DynamoXI

Snaps_The_Pirate

nhat

earthworm

OpposedForce

cris150

maxwellhouse

Erratus Apathos

Veronica13

cerebus3

Mr. T

Lowell

Citizen Karne

Prodding Veronica13.

[hasdgfas]

mod:

Can you pick something that isn't orange? I can't read the orange text.

Will do.

olive

will replace

orange.

[DynamoXI]

From what I've picked up, MafiaMann is town, I'm pretty sure I know his role too.

How would you know his role? Care to tell us how you came about this information?

No. Shut up. That is one of the scummiest things I've seen in what I've read of this game.

wtf? How is that scummy? I was asking him how he knows. And why are you asking me to shut up? Did I do something to offend you?

[MafiaMann]

From what I've picked up, MafiaMann is town, I'm pretty sure I know his role too.

How would you know his role? Care to tell us how you came about this information?

No. Shut up. That is one of the scummiest things I've seen in what I've read of this game.

wtf? How is that scummy? I was asking him how he knows. And why are you asking me to shut up? Did I do something to offend you?

I think he was talking about the other guy who said im a pro town role

[Erratus Apathos]

OK, Erratos Apathos, I just finished looking at Mini 601, and it appears I bought your defending putting words in veerus's mouth in that game because I understood it was a joke. Are you saying your putting words in nhat's mouth is a joke as well?

No, but the one from the other game wasn't exactly a joke either. What I mean is that my nhat fakequote in post 345 does reflect an opinion of mine (that is, I believe nhat was trying to weasel his way out of PeterGriffin's attack), but I'm not trying to pass it off as an actual nhat quote. Which is the same thing I was trying to do with the veerus fakequote in the other game.

This, however, makes me rethink my position on EA. He had some reasons, yes, but people did comment on them being too weak. I'd say that counts as an attack.

If "Your reasons are too weak" counts as an attack, then here's my defense: No they're not.

See what I did there? The wagon on me fails because, aside from Coug who's on for a different reason entirely, none of the people on it are using their vote to generate useful discussion, which is exactly what wagons should be doing at this stage. I had to drag discussion about my wagon out of nhat, and I

can't

seem to drag any out of Dynamo, Cephrir, or armlx. Speaking of which, armlx's absolutely incessant attempts to push my wagon without actually getting on it himself and without discussing it beyond "your reasons are weak scum" makes negative sense if he's town.

Unvote, vote: armlx

Pop quiz for anyone still riding the "switching votes is anti-town" horseshit: Why should I have kept my Netlava vote rather than switched to Cephrir? Why should I have kept my Cephrir vote rather than switched to nhat? And to preempt your next worthless non-point against me, why should I have kept my nhat vote rather than switched to armlx?

About Animorpher's softclaim: Although not necessary, it really isn't anywhere near as bad as it's being made out to be. What did the post give away about Animorpher's or MafiaMann's role? Nothing? Then why is the post so egregious? What

is

bad is the wave of fishing that followed it. Why in the hell would you criticize him for needlessly claiming, and then demand he elaborate on the needless claim? Please someone tell me I'm not the only one who sees how utterly retarded the top third of page 22 as a whole is.

[hasdgfas]

From what I've picked up, MafiaMann is town, I'm pretty sure I know his role too.

How would you know his role? Care to tell us how you came about this information?

No. Shut up. That is one of the scummiest things I've seen in what I've read of this game.

wtf? How is that scummy? I was asking him how he knows. And why are you asking me to shut up? Did I do something to offend you?

Rolefishing to the extreme. If he tells you how he knows, that has a chance of outing a power role for the mafia to kill(not that that may not already have happened, I don't know what morph is thinking). Sorry for the shut up, but that post screamed scum at me so much that I had to stop it from getting anywhere.

[raider8169]

Rolefishing to the extreme. If he tells you how he knows, that has a chance of outing a power role for the mafia to kill(not that that may not already have happened, I don't know what morph is thinking). Sorry for the shut up, but that post screamed scum at me so much that I had to stop it from getting anywhere.

If he knows something about the role that wouldnt make it scummy as wouldnt he need to be town to have something on the role to give out? It seemed to me like he had a feeling, or atleast nothing was solid. I could be wrong of course.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, Erratos Apathos, I just finished looking at Mini 601, and it appears I bought your defending putting words in veerus's mouth in that game because I understood it was a joke. Are you saying your putting words in nhat's mouth is a joke as well?

No, but the one from the other game wasn't exactly a joke either. What I mean is that my nhat fakequote in post 345 does reflect an opinion of mine (that is, I believe nhat was trying to weasel his way out of PeterGriffin's attack), but I'm not trying to pass it off as an actual nhat quote. Which is the same thing I was trying to do with the veerus fakequote in the other game.

Gotcha.

Unvote: Erratos Apathos

.

[hasdgfas]

Hi, I'm back with pages 16-20:

Post 376-nhat: Why the heck are you being such a jerk? You weren't like this at all in the last game I played with you?

Post 378-nhat: Why don't you ask him instead of everyone else?

Post 385-nhat: Better, but I'd like to see a little more reasoning.

Post 387-Cass: Good bandwagon, bad vote. Defending EA before he could is bad also.

Post 388-nhat: Misrepresentation. That isn't what Cass said at all.

Post 395-Cass: Last sentence is terrible. Just terrible.

Post 397-MM: What?

Post 400-nhat: Then why did you ask a question to everyone else about how cyberbob could be scummy? Also, that looks extremely demeaning to everyone.

Post 401-Dynamo: So instead of going off of one of your own cases, you decide to follow someone else's?

Post 403-raider: So you're caught up, but you have nothing to say?

Post 404-netlava: That is a terrible reason for voting for Cass, especially when you could ask her to clarify like SC did just after.

Post 410-raider: How about you actually contribute some thoughts?

Post 412-BM: This might be BM's scummiest post so far. He votes based on really early things when many things have happened since the post he quotes.

Post 420-Veronica: Did you read why cass called it a flimsy case?

Post 424-EA: I'm pretty sure that nhat was attacking the reasons, EA. How could you think otherwise?

Post 426-EA: You can call it, but for the most part, they are attacking the reasons. Some may not be, but I've noticed that most are.

Post 427-Netlava: What?

Post 433-nhat: This might be nhat's best post of the game so far. Not demeaning anyone and there are actual good arguments and logic.

Post 441-Netlava: Um, I don't see it as defending you as much as attempting to clarify Cyberbob's case against you.

Post 445-Cass: If you're voting on a flimsy case, don't vote. If your votes have other priorities than lynching someone then(for the most part), don't vote.

Post 452-earth: Hmm, very interesting. I like how you point out that he has very little reasoning and is mostly BW'ing.

Post 452-raider: Hi, mind explaining this or contributing something at all? I think I came into the game after you and have been able to say a few things.

Post 458-raider: Hi, could you please contribute something?

Post 467-MM: I hope you go somewhere with this, because it looks like a whole lot of nothing.

Post 471-snaps: Are you sure? I thought he answered it.

Post 476-MM: Really? Wouldn't those be synonymous?

Post 491-nhat: Ok. And?


New reads:

EA- a bit scummy right now, but not the worst offender
raider- please post some actual content
Cass-Leaning scum at the moment
nhat-less scummy than before, surprisingly
BM-I still think he's town, but I haven't liked some of his arguments. It's as though he can't believe anything he does can be wrong at all.
Dynamo-still really scummy


Expect me to be fully caught up tomorrow(finally) and I'll have a vote, probably on Dynamo.

[raider8169]

raider- please post some actual content

I have been sucking out in this game. I read like 20 pages in one sitting and it was an overload for me. Once I have the time to read it agian and this time take notes I should be more helpful, until them I am useless and that is why I have yet to vote.

[earthworm]

I'd like to know what people think, because the only other game I'm playing is being moderated by Cephrir, so I'm having a hard time viewing him impartially.

I'm not sure why this would be a problem.

In my head, I think of Cephrir as nearly confirmed innocent, despite him having done absolutely nothing to put himself there.

Also, a good part of why I presented his votes to see what everyone thought was that I'm not terribly convinced by the cases based on votehopping, or voting on bandwagons, like the cases on EA and Cass. In such a large game, there's inevitably going to be lots of cases that emerge, and rise and fade, and with 14 players to lynch, there is inevitably going to be a lot of people who go onto bandwagons, since a bandwagon is the only thing with any hope of pressuring anybody, or getting anybody lynched.

Finally, I'm suspicious of DynamoXI, his actions prior in the game were bad enough that he was already in my lists of suspects, but his questioning of animorpherv1 was even worse. It seemed like a thinly veiled attempt to find out whether or not MafiaMann was indeed a powerrole, something that should have been completely left alone after it was brought up. In what possible way could finding out about animorpherv's post benefit the town?

As for animorpherv1, I think he seems more like an inexperienced player than scum, but he sure has been doing a lot of inexplicable and unhelpful stuff.

[StrangerCoug]

BM-I still think he's town, but I haven't liked some of his arguments. It's as though he can't believe anything he does can be wrong at all.

Forgot this when I talked to him about it, but this is why I've called him elitist.

[maxwellhouse]

1 word. IRRELEVANT. Rolling Eyes

irrelevant isn't a word, bud.

anyway, so i like how animorperv randomly blurts out that mafiamann is a town and that he's got a role... and then disappears. that seems like either a stupid town power role move, a clever scum move, or just a comment on everything going on. like "i believe so-and-so is town, and i've felt some soft-claiming going on." i dunno, i'm just guessing about that, since it's rather strange to just say a result you got right out.

BM-I still think he's town, but I haven't liked some of his arguments. It's as though he can't believe anything he does can be wrong at all.

amen to that. i've never played with him before, so i don't know. it seems like a bunch of people randomly scuttled toward him and have stuck around to defend him all along, buddying up to him and his ego for a bit (some "he did no wrong! strangercoug must be evil! did i do good BM?") and BM would give his doggy a nice pat on the head.

i can't find exact posts at the moment, but i specifically remember one. i believe it was in pre-game, or early day 1. BM and SC were arguing, a person who agreed with the pact jumped in and marked down SC and praised BM a bit. then BM gave him a thanks and a kudos for being smart... something like that.

and, after all my metaphors and fluff, i think BM's eager followers have much more scummy vibes than anyone at the moment, at least to me.

i think i'm a few pages behind, but i'm really tired and i didn't get a chance to really get in-depth with all the posts. and i have school, so i won't be able to post and contribute as much, though i haven't really been contributing here. so, i'm really sorry about that. i'll try to get better at posting on thursday or friday when i have time.

[maxwellhouse]

EBWOP: wow. disregard my first sentence completely. i'm an idiot and i can't think straight right now at all... xD

[nhat]

Fine EA, let me attack your arguments. In your first vote on Netlava, your reasoning is because he is expressing his disapproval of two players and their long-winded discussion about *sigh* the pact. You equate this with discouraging argument of any kind, prevote him on page 4, then stay silent until the day begins, with your first post of the day being a vote on Netlava with no other comments about anything.

At the time of Netlava's post, the pact discussion was the only discussion. Netlava tried to discourage that discussion without promoting any other form of discussion, therefore he was effectively discouraging discussion of any kind. It's not a strong point by any stretch of the imagination, but it was a damn sight more suspicious than anything BM or Untitled or even you had done at that point.

Your second vote is because of Cephrir's comment about a vote being a will to lynch. That's not 100% true in my opinion, votes can be more versatile than that, but you don't really explain why it's a scumtell, and you switch your vote.

Cephrir's comment blipped my bullshitometer enough that I felt a vote for additional pressure was warranted (particularly in comparison to my Netlava vote which wasn't accomplishing anything), but not hard enough that I was willing to push for a full-fledged wagon before I got more info from the horse's mouth.

Your third vote is silly and opportunistic, basically you putting words in my mouth to paint me even scummier than others already have been doing.

"You're putting words in my mouth" is a completely worthless argument that has no business in Mafia. Players, particularly scum players, don't always say what they mean; as such, inferring an unspoken motive for any given post is a very legitimate method of hunting scum. If you'd like to disprove the motive I inferred you had for accusing PeterGriffin of OMGUS, by all means, but "I never said that I had that motive" does precisely nothing to convince me that I'm wrong.

As for how I came to that conclusion: PeterGriffin's attack on you in post 345 has no obvious connection to you insulting him in post 101, and you didn't do anything that showed them to be connected, nor did you show anything he said to be wrong. It smacked of trying to use post 101 as a "get out of suspicion free" card.

Your defense for your first vote is fair enough, yet at that point you had sat back and let the game start without further participation for 6 pages just to vote for him.

Your defense for your second post shows that you wanted to pressure him, but not support a bandwagon. Then why not FoS him? You putting your vote on looks like a bandwagon in the making. Bandwagons have to start somewhere.

As for your your third vote's defense, you can explain how you have inferred my so-called motive. Because, indeed PeterGriffin had slyly commented on post-count with his vote on me because I had done so to him during our pre-day spat. If he thought his argument was strong, then he wouldn't have to put in that smarmy comment to make it look like he was getting back at me. But he did, and it looked like some OMGUS.

No reasons I can see to change my vote at the moment.



@Hasd- For my post 400, it references MafiaMann's birthday in his profile.

[Veronica13]

I also tend to think that those who were the most vocal in the pre-game are probably not scum, as it really puts them in the spotlight and draws votes. Although I would except BM from this general thought because some players have styles that are apparently well-known and maintain them from game to game.

That being said, the players who I'm mostly interested in are those that weren't as active during the pre-game, but perhaps not completely silent. This thought, combined with nhat's misguided, at best, reasoning, leads me to

vote: nhat

have i played with you before?

Also, Cephrir is really pulling his weight.

BM

No, you've never played with me before. I gleaned that from what others said pre-game.

[Cass]

About Animorpher: yes, his post was bad. You could argue that he is just inexperienced and clueless, but his vote is on someone

for soft-claiming

(mistakenly too, but that's beside the point). If that's not rampant contradiction, I don't know what is. I still hope he'll come back and explain himself...

[Battle Mage]

From what I've picked up, MafiaMann is town, I'm pretty sure I know his role too.

How would you know his role? Care to tell us how you came about this information?

fishing much?

[Battle Mage]

BM-I still think he's town, but I haven't liked some of his arguments. It's as though he can't believe anything he does can be wrong at all.

Forgot this when I talked to him about it, but this is why I've called him elitist.

yeh, elitist isnt really the word ur looking for, because as far as i'm aware, if you are elitist, you look for perfection as much in others as in yourself. You are accusing me of simply being arrogant and self-righteous.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I also tend to think that those who were the most vocal in the pre-game are probably not scum, as it really puts them in the spotlight and draws votes. Although I would except BM from this general thought because some players have styles that are apparently well-known and maintain them from game to game.

That being said, the players who I'm mostly interested in are those that weren't as active during the pre-game, but perhaps not completely silent. This thought, combined with nhat's misguided, at best, reasoning, leads me to

vote: nhat

have i played with you before?

Also, Cephrir is really pulling his weight.

BM

No, you've never played with me before. I gleaned that from what others said pre-game.

There's a first time for everything.
You shouldn't always trust what others say without knowing their affiliation, or personal position.

BM

[Battle Mage]

wow, we got Lowell! Also, we have alot of people requiring replacement, by the look of it...

Unvote, Vote: Dynamo

His rolefishing combined with his 'why are you attacking me' reaction warrant a pressure wagon.

BM

[Lowell]

Oh yeah, you got Lowell. Hi all.

I have an hour or so to kill at the moment. I'm going to try to read through quickly and tell you all the people who need killing.

[Battle Mage]

only an hour? you'd best stop posting in Little Italy then, and get reading, eh?

[Lowell]

All right all right I know you miss me. Calm down. Have to maintain a presence everywhere or I'll get replaced. Here I go...