Death Curse

[UNOwen]

So, shouldn’t you be tr Shelley based on this, now that Hopkirk flipped town?

Nope, Hopkirk scum would have guaranteed shelly scum for me, but I don't think shelly is scum just because of Hopkirk interactions so my scum read on her remains regardless of his town flip, even if it did weaken my confidence a bit.

[Gloria Cleary]

So, shouldn’t you be tr Shelley based on this, now that Hopkirk flipped town?

Nope, Hopkirk scum would have guaranteed shelly scum for me, but I don't think shelly is scum just because of Hopkirk interactions so my scum read on her remains regardless of his town flip, even if it did weaken my confidence a bit.

Why is Shelley scum?

[UNOwen]

Why is Shelley scum?

4302, her scum read of me is pure dishonesty. 4299 was the third strike, she skipped answering because if she did she would be forced to admit that I was most solvey in endgame and that really can't be compared to the current game state.

[shellyc]

4299 was the third strike, she skipped answering because if she did she would be forced to admit that I was most solvey in endgame and that really can't be compared to the current game state.

i missed it

I was comparing to mini normal 2168

[Flea The Magician]

Taylor - TL, randomly defensive, seems to be sticking to guns. Smart enough to not create those specific associative tells imo.
Noraa - SL, can't forgive the over-defensiveness earlier and response to drilled, have considered play since and downgraded.

what do you think about noraa's later play that "downgrades" her? imo noraa's later play is much better than early flailing!noraa

Answered.

MC - Not sure, overconfident in reads.

Do you think overconfidence is completely NAI?

No. Overconfidence could be scummy as they know who's who. On the other hand, could just be a super confident player. On the 3rd hand, could just be bantering.

Pooky - SL, slot isn't sitting well with me, seems to be mostly shitposting and taunting.

Consider meta evidence that scum!pooky = less taunty and more lighthearted

No.

Theta - Null Seems rather middle of the road to me.

Middle of the road is how, imo, scum would ideally play here, as all elim'd town are vengeful

Could also be a player who no attention span trying to integrate without taking too much flak.

Bell - TL. Reads well to me. Should probably go look at the points made against them at some point.
Fidget - Honestly, haven't been paying attention.
Gloria - See above.
Adorable - Forgot about them

Can you develop a little bit more on these last 4 reads? skim the isos, no matter how weak a read is, it's best to get it out there

Bell still a TL, but sure. For bonus points I'll look at the vain Titus too.

[Flea The Magician]

UNOwen: Scum - I made a post previously and I stick to that.

That said, I don't believe in Nora/UNOwen as a duo.

!
You realise that your previous post was advancing the "UNO knows that Noraa will flip scum so is setting Adorable up as a partner" theory that Adorable suggested? And that your accusation was of me being "proud and knowing" about Noraa's alignment?

What from our interactions make us an unlikely scum team since then?

This is an amazing interpretation of my post

Nora and Adorable aren't a dirty duo, same as you and nora aren't a dirty duo. I specifically said "There's a definite sense of pride and knowing in UNOwens posts about Noraa."

[UNOwen]

I was comparing to mini normal 2168

So was I.

[UNOwen]

This is an amazing interpretation of my post

Nora and Adorable aren't a dirty duo, same as you and nora aren't a dirty duo. I specifically said "There's a definite sense of pride and knowing in UNOwens posts about Noraa."

What you specifically said was:

I gotta agree with Adorable in #1301. There's a definite sense of pride and knowing in UNOwens posts about Noraa.

And what Adorable specifically said was:

I'm scum reading both Noraa and Unowen.

Unowen said Noraa's wagon looked promising and then randomly mentions my vote which looked like he knows something about Noraa's alignment. Sometimes scum will link a scum buddy to a town player and this was the vibe I was getting from Unowen.

[Noraa]

Noraa is complicated and probably deserves her own post. I actually should review her before townlocking (I have noticed that Noraa has the ability to become globally townread as scum in a different game).

This was a beautiful reads list. I think I can probably stick with a TL on Fidget. If you are referencing the game "so many bats", I was a universal TR right off the bat( ) and died only bc of a guilty( ) otherwise, I prolly would've made it to limlo.

I didn't appreciate the incongruity of the post the first time I read it, but let me get this straight. You are not saying Tayl0r Swift used it on you twice. But you are saying Tayl0r Swift used it on you twice if she is scum and you didn't think she is that dumb which means you think she is town and she didn't use it on you twice.

I will follow this up with a second response to your response to my response to your response to my response to your response to my question.

You are making this overly complicated. What I was trying to say was that she was handing me a free town pass which reminded me of her scum game where she did that. But then I also am hesitant to believe if she would use the same thing on me twice. This lead to me flip flopping and currently it is a townlean/read. Plus I dont think this convo is beneficial to anyone aorn.

Noraa, why would that be “dumb”? Why couldn’t it be smart? I mean whatever she is here, she’s doubling down on pushing one of the same players that she did in The Trials, that incidentally happens to be my strongest tr and it pings me that she continues to fight me on it. I don’t get a strong tr on a player without damned good reason and it concerns me that isn’t influencing her in the slightest.

who did she push in trials? Titus? Fidget? I didn't pay the slightest bit of attention that game :/
I understand what ur saying defo but I TR her because her jokey and snarky attitude is far more present in her town game. She doesn't care about offending the shit out of everyone when she is town and that's .... what I uh see here *gestures vaguely*
Her free town pass that she gave me legitimately scares me. Overall my soul read meter is telling me that the vibe she's giving off is the type that her town game has

[Noraa]

Btw the last three pages or something was legit like ten convos going on at the same time. Y'all successfully broke my brain >:(

[Theta Alpine]

i am perfectly fine with adorable being handed the scroll

[Titus]

Adorable is rather null due to inactivity. I'm ok with it.

[Noraa]

i am perfectly fine with adorable being handed the scroll

You've been coasting for a while now. Do you have a strong read on Adora to have to personally come back and say she should be handed the scroll?

[Noraa]

Adorable is quite a compromise lim imo. No one really strongly SRs this slot so handing there is 100% a compromise.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Adorable's inactive, and... By the way, I only just picked up on this because guess who finally had a full night's sleep!... their posting style reminds me of a very forced, fine-I'll-do-it-at-the-last-minute high school assignment persuasive essay. There's a clunkiness to the logic: There is always a single cause to a single effect, there's not much appearance of doubt, the phrasing makes it appear like, uh... parts-scrounging? Like, you know when you're building something out of LEGO and you're hunting for that one PERFECT piece you KNOW you have but you can't find it so you go "fuck it, this one works" and come up with some half-assed reason why it works? It's also sort of like when you're trying to defend a movie or game you like to someone when they have a good point but you're too convinced to let them have even one point, so you argue that the imperfection was better than the alternative.

So yeah it's this extremely clunky seat-of-the-pants rationalization to the phrasing, no nuance, no doubt. It's extremely mechanical, as in machine.

Also, on a full night's sleep I can remember Noraa asked me a question pages and pages ago! And the answer is: I have no solve right now. Every alley I've gone down is a dead end. Adorable has been null for me on account of the stuff above and I'm at "fuck it, scroll 'em, I don't care anymore I just want information to dig into". I'm honestly currently hoping that Adorable gives the scroll to you, Noraa, because you're the best slot to read off of. You have an excellent Day 1 wagon and you've had multiple long-term pushers. A confirmed flip from you makes for GREAT analysis no matter what your alignment is. I'm feeling it, even though I town read you.

For the record, if I was Fred, I would have hit Noraa or Tayl0r for big information and the fact that both of them excel as town when there's time pressure but not scumread-pressure. I would trust them to hit red with the third pass so long as they followed their heart, believe it or not.

[MURDERCAT]

I was Fred, I would have hit Noraa or Tayl0r

thumbs down on Noraa but Tayl0r would be ok

[Hectic]

Timer: (expired on 2020-11-07 04:04:49)

[MURDERCAT]

Hurt tag please

[Hectic]

Lady Lambdadelta has been prodded.

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: Tayl0r Swift

It's TSwift right now

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Uhhhh

[Flea The Magician]

there was a hurt tag for adorable iirc.

[MURDERCAT]

Oh ignore me

[Adorable]

Now I am convinced Adorable is scum.

HURT: Adorable

Apologies if you are indeed town Fred, I didn't intend for that to be the hammer although I doubt I'd have moved my vote.

@Fidget I noticed you have been making a town core which is making me wary scum are forming a town core for each other and who wants to make friends with town, you have also been saying I am weird and you can't just only say that because that can be a good excuse for scum to call a player weird and your lack of engagement with me which is bothering me.

I'm the only player with a town core that bothers you? Don't think that's a trait exclusive to me.

I'm reading you as off or weird, yes. You see it as a lazy scumread (as scum might use), so lemme take the opportunity to actually quote what I find weird now and try to figure it out.

Spoiler:

I don't understand why Noraa is getting defensive here in this type of setup. Noraa if you were the first to be given the scroll wouldn't you give it to your scum read?

Taylor asking do scum have a daytalk I couldn't tell if this was a joke or not.

VOTE: Noraa

I'm busy at the moment and I'm multitasking. Noraa getting defensive is sus and it looks like she dug herself a hole here. Noraa votes me wanting me to have the scroll and I would most likely give it to her.

Noraa, your play makes no sense. You made a readlist and put Shelly, Vaultdweller, and Hopkirk as scum but you didn't vote them and instead you vote me for not voting and same thing can be said about you for not voting those 3 you listed earlier as scum. I don't mind getting the scroll since I've been busy lately and won't be able to put much effort.

I have read 20 pages since from where I last left off and I still haven't fully caught up. I'm still scum reading Noraa and I'm also scum reading Unowen because once when Noraa started to get defensive and all those votes piled up on her, Unowen says the wagon on Noraa looks promising and then randomly shaded me about my vote on Noraa which looked sus.

Early play is just "Noraa, Noraa, Noraa" which is fine I guess since I focused on her too.

You add in an extra scumread on UNOwen just because he suspected your vote on Noraa. I thought it looked like awkward bussing a tad bit especially with Noraa voting you back. That doesn't matter since I don't scumread Noraa now, though.

I saw on Noraa's recent reads list she put me as newbtown and I find this strange she still leaves her vote on me.

@Theta You never responded to #1658 and your theory looks really weird. shelly said on #347 Noraa hates bussing.

There's a pattern where your reads heavily tend to revolve around people voting you, or at the very least suspecting you.

Noraa's play has been confusing me and that 180 she did earlier on me when Toogeloo was holding the scroll was sus. Her post on #3942 about Hopkirk also looked like scum shading him. So from what I gathered, scum Noraa likes to put pressure on players and she has been doing that in this game and town Noraa doesn't put pressure.

VOTE: Noraa

This doesn't make any sense. I see this comes as a hop-on to a Noraa CW to Frederick's main wagon, which looks bad if I believe Fred to be red.

Town!Noraa doesn't put pressure. I don't get it. You believe that town!Noraa doesn't vote? That can't be it, because Noraa voted just a little ways back from this post. So I guess this read just makes no sense.

I have had some bad experience with meta and most of the time I don't focus on meta anymore. In my last micro game I played someone was getting town read for meta and that player turned out to be scum. I was getting scum read for meta and I was town. I have said earlier on why I scum read Noraa. That read list Noraa made when she put me as newbtown gave me a bit of a pause and I started wondering maybe Noraa could be town and if she was scum, I would have assumed she would continue on trying to get me eliminated and then later she did a 180 on me. On my first completed scum game I also made a read list and I didn't get coached. Noraa's play really has been confusing me.

Gloria gives you meta that suggests Noraa is town.

In response.. you throw out using meta as reasoning. Just after you used the insane "Town!Noraa doesn't pressure" meta as a reason to vote Noraa. Seems awfully cherry-picky. Gloria's meta is stronger (the emotional range stuff).

That's what I said earlier and Noraa is putting pressure in this game. I did not read her completed games and I only quickly skimmed 2 of her scum games and 2 of her town games to see what her votes looked like. In 2 of her scum games I quickly skimmed she used by the lines of, "I would like to put pressure or I will put some pressure on you." When I quickly skimmed through 2 of her town games to see what her votes looked like, she did not mention the word pressure when she placed her votes.

This is the kind of read I would expect from someone who swears by meta, not someone who has bad experience with it. It's crazy. Why must you vote Noraa so badly? This again comes as a response to Gloria pointing out why your evaluation of Noraa's meta is wrong.

Overall your Noraa read is crazy and very convenient in a Fred!scum world when she was the most promising counterwagon. There is something else I found weird about the people you were willing to shoot:

Spoiler:

Vaxkiller
Lapsa
Noraa
Fidget
UNOwen

This is your five you would shoot. All of your reads that aren't Noraa were essentially OMGUS, with Noraa also partially being OMGUS.

Vaxkiller's play makes no sense. Earlier he randomly votes me and then says Bell is shading but still leaves his vote on me. On #2509 Vaxkiller said he's glad he voted you but he never voted you and he lied. Lapsa's vote switch on me when a wagon started to build on Toogeloo during my absence looked sus.

I'm also scum reading Unowen because once when Noraa started to get defensive and all those votes piled up on her, Unowen says the wagon on Noraa looks promising and then randomly shaded me about my vote on Noraa which looked sus.

@Noraa There are some players who are suspecting us as scum buddies and if you really are town, then this makes me think scum are the ones who are trying to make it look like we are scum buddies when we are not. UNOwen and Fidget are the players that come up from the top of my head.

I don't find "Reads are weird, a bit inconsistent, and OMGUS-centric" quite damning so I am not yet willing to say I'm confident you are scum. If Fred is red I would shoot you in a heartbeat, though, because the Noraa read then makes sense.

And yeah, I am used to seeing you townslip so it's partly just weird for me not having you in the locktown bin for once.

You pretty much said here if Fred is scum then that makes me scum. Fred said he is town and your theory has been off the mark.

[Adorable]

Not an easy mode free win then.
Shelly thinks I am obvscum but will not try very hard to get me killed because she knows as soon as the scroll is in my hands it will be heading in her direction.

I'm not sure about shooting Adorable. I think the general OMGUS focus shows a fairly consistent perspective but from what she says Adorable has a meta of doing this which might mean she is playing it up here. Will be interesting to see how she responds to the HURT at least.

@Adorable, what other reads do you have besides Noraa? If you’ve already done this, then please link those posts.

Other than Noraa I have also been scum reading Fidget. I have had other players who recently went up my radar which are Titus and Flea.