Mafia 82: International (Game Over)

[Battle Mage]

When you've read the game, you'll realise just HOW much we need you!

BM

[nhat]

When you've read the game, you'll realise just HOW much we need you!

BM

What's with all this nutriding?

[Cephrir]

In my head, I think of Cephrir as nearly confirmed innocent, despite him having done absolutely nothing to put himself there.

That's...weird.

[StrangerCoug]

BM-I still think he's town, but I haven't liked some of his arguments. It's as though he can't believe anything he does can be wrong at all.

Forgot this when I talked to him about it, but this is why I've called him elitist.

yeh, elitist isnt really the word ur looking for, because as far as i'm aware, if you are elitist, you look for perfection as much in others as in yourself. You are accusing me of simply being arrogant and self-righteous.

BM

Actually, those are better words. Thanks.

And I really need animorpherv1 in here explaining himself. I hate people that make scummy moves and then skedaddle as if nothing happened. That's a cheap way of getting out. I'm sorry.

Pressure vote: animorpherv1

[Lowell]

25- BM writes constitution
26- anarchist korts rebels, individuals rule, federals drool
30s-236- discussion rages over pact, BM/Korts/Opposed force
237- game finally opens.... wow
250s- Untitled (w/ Stranger) vs. BM (w/ Peter Griffin, nhat, cephir & cass)
276- nhat votes untitled for claiming pro-town. [huh???]
289- cyber votes netlava [good post]
300s- nhat defends his position, "too townie" scumtell
312- untitled leads w/ 4 votes (cerebus, PGriffin, nhat, cephir)
337- good post from netlava
361- nhat leads w/ 6 votes (earthworm, veronica, cephir, PG, EA, armlx)
362- strange vote for nhat from animorph
368- has enters, votes dynamo for post 58
373- veronica misses BM
370s- argument between cyber and nhat
385- nhat votes for EA for flimsy votehopping
387- cass joins nhat bandwagon
389- armlx jumps off bandwagon
391- armlx votes dynamo
401- dynamo votes EA
402- cephir votes EA [looks like trying to drive away from dynamo]
404- netlava votes cass for creating diversion [odd]
412- BM votes SC
428- nhat leads w/ 5 votes (earthworm, PG, EA, animorph, Cass)
430- cris posts full list on all players
432- SC votes BM [omgusy]
446- opposed votes Cass for attacking "flimsy cases"
452- earthworm points out cephir's voteshifting
454- EA defends himself from nhat's case [decent]
456- SC votes EA, posts full player list [good]
464- nhat (PG, EA, animorph, cass) and EA (nhat, dynamo, cephir, SC) tied w/ 4 votes
467- mafiamann lists all of BMs posts [why?]
469- cephir responds to earthworms criticism's, pushes EA bandwagon more
471- Snaps_the_pirate votes SC for "not saying much" [lame]
524- animorph claims to know mafiamann's role [odd]
546- dynamo wants to know how animorph knows [scummy]
551- nhat (Lowell, EA, animporph, cass) and EA (nhat, dynamo, cephir, SC) lead w/ 4 votes
555- EA votes armlx, makes good point about post 524 being not so bad
571- BM votes dynamo
576- nhat protests nutriding [he's jealous]
578- SC votes animorph

Some thoughts:

First off, I'm torn about what to make of the active pregamers. On the one hand, people getting in the fray early and often tend to be town. On the other, pregame would be a perfect time to assert oneself as "active" without having to fear any real repercussions. Still, for their pregame actions, I'm inclined to think that both

BM

and

opposed force

are

town

.

untitled

is

town

as well. He gets points for bravely taking on the heavy poster (BM) for legitimate reasons as soon as the game opened. Those that rallied to BM's side in the argument, particularly

cephir

and

cass

, come off slightly

scummy

. Taking BM's side there is just a little too convenient.

Here are a few other players, listed in the order I thought of them.

nhat

- is too insistent on his defense of the "too townie" comment. Whether he believes it or not, it looks like he's trying to protect everything he says from future use against him. He loses points for siding with BM. Slightly

scummy

, but he's been active and aggressive enough that he's nowhere near my top suspect.

earthworm

- newbie, but looks

town

mostly based on post 452. I don't agree with the arguments he's made, but he looks pro-town nonetheless.

cephir

- I'm not a huge fan of him this game. post 469 in particular looks very

scummy

. He takes earthworm's critique that he vote-hops too much (an argument that, btw, hadn't really received any traction or attention anywhere else), quasi-refutes it, and then, for good measure, inserts a few lines about how happy he is with his

current

vote on EA.

mafiamann

- slight

scum

vibe on him. He's also newbish, but his strange interaction with BM in the 470s-480s makes me think he's too willing to take on a fight... as if he was EXPECTING the time to happen when BM called him out on something.

EA

- I like post 555, and he hasn't panicked under scrutiny the way I've seen him do as scum. His posts have been decent and his defense in 454 is solid. Combined with the fact that those voting for him are scummy, I feel comfortable reading him as

town

.

dynamo

- post 546 is bad. Also, as much as trying to connect players on D1 is useless... allow me to try to connect players on D1. In the 390s mild pressure was beginning to build on dynamo. Cephir jumped in and voted with dynamo to sustain the pressure on EA. This looks a bit like a diversion to me. I'll mark dynamo as

scummy

hasdgfas

- I haven't found his lengthy summary posts particularly useful (ironic, I suppose), and the timing of them makes it look like he's following public opinion after the fact (specifically his suspicions of dynamo and townread on BM, and the way he pulled off his EA suspicions as the wagon was dying down in post 559). He's very

scum

my.

unvote, vote hasdgfas

. I'd happily vote dynamo as well, but I'm slightly surer about this and would like to see if there's any support here instead.

nb- don't be offended if I didn't mention you by name. These are just players I've got preliminary reads on.

[Battle Mage]

When you've read the game, you'll realise just HOW much we need you!

BM

What's with all this nutriding?

nutriding? you obv forgot who this is!

IT'S LOWELL!!!!!


BM

[Cephrir]

BM-I still think he's town, but I haven't liked some of his arguments. It's as though he can't believe anything he does can be wrong at all.

Forgot this when I talked to him about it, but this is why I've called him elitist.

yeh, elitist isnt really the word ur looking for, because as far as i'm aware, if you are elitist, you look for perfection as much in others as in yourself. You are accusing me of simply being arrogant and self-righteous.

BM

Actually, those are better words. Thanks.

And I really need animorpherv1 in here explaining himself. I hate people that make scummy moves and then skedaddle as if nothing happened. That's a cheap way of getting out. I'm sorry.

Pressure vote: animorpherv1

Pressure votes don't work when you say they're pressure votes. Amd I don't think him explaining himself will be a good idea, much as I'd like to know what the heck he's thinking.

[raider8169]

IT'S LOWELL!!!!!

Do you have a list of people that are automaticly town or scum? You got way to excited over one person.

Ok im going back to lurking in plain sight until I can get find enough time to reread everything.

[Battle Mage]

IT'S LOWELL!!!!!

Do you have a list of people that are automaticly town or scum? You got way to excited over one person.

Ok im going back to lurking in plain sight until I can get find enough time to reread everything.

rofl. Since when did i make any comment on Lowell's affiliation?

FoS: Raider

BM

[raider8169]

rofl. Since when did i make any comment on Lowell's affiliation?

You didnt, it was just kind of creepy.

[Battle Mage]

that's Lowell. He's THE MAN.

BM

[animorpherv1]

I'm trying, all right, it's just going wayy to fast for me, so I'm going to ask to be replaced.

[hasdgfas]

Lowell, did you even realize I'm not caught up yet(haven't analyzed 21-now) and replaced in partway through the game? I'm doing(slower) the exact same thing you are and have pointed out pretty much the exact same things you are plus some more things. How can you vote me for that? For timing? I'm sorry that I couldn't catch up at a better time.

[hasdgfas]

This should catch me up so I can actually respond to most posts as they're posted.

Post 502-Netlava: Only a minor scumtell? Really? That's not what I understood when you pointed it out. Also, is the game you mention in the last sentence over?

Post 504-raider: Oh look, another '/post' post.

Post 509-MM: Oh really? Why?

Post 518-armlx: Actually, it should be, if you don't give info, you don't vote. Not Voting gives lots of info.

Post 519-MM: So basically, you find nobody at all a good choice to lynch?

Post 522-MM: But you think he is most scummy? Then why

not

vote him? Or make a case on him to convince yourself or something?

Post 523-Cass: Right, but it should be the main one.

Post 524-morph: *headdesk* Don't do this because it only helps scum.

Post 531-Cass: An excellent point.

Post 545-Netlava: Last sentence seems to be echoing what has already been said

Post 546-Dynamo: Still probably the scummiest post I've seen so far.

Post 554-MM: yeah, since I quoted Dynamo's post I meant another one?

Post 555-EA: Mind going more in-depth on armlx pushing your wagon w/o getting on it? Quotes or something?

Post 560-raider: If you can respond to something just posted, why can't you comment on the rest of the game?

Post 576-nhat: I beg your pardon?

Post 586-morph: Gah, not again...


Anyway, Dynamo is still really, really scummy.

vote: Dynamo

. I'm not sure I've seen a single pro-town seeming post from him.

@Lowell: Did I mention any EA suspicions before that post you point out? No, so why is it scummy to say I don't think he's the scummiest. Plus, you're suspicious of dynamo and have a townread on BM with even worse timing then me. I find this to be extremely hypocritical and it gets a

FoS: Lowell

from me.

[Battle Mage]

EBWOP: wow. disregard my first sentence completely. i'm an idiot and i can't think straight right now at all... xD

roflmao!

[skitzer]

Vote Count Eight of Day One

(3) Erratus Apathos: nhat, DynamoXI, Cephrir
(3) Cass: Netlava, Veronica13, OpposedForce
(3) DynamoXI: armlx, Battle Mage, hasdgfas
(2) nhat: animorpherv1, Cass
(2) hasdgfas: Korts, Lowell
(1) StrangerCoug: Snaps_The_Pirate
(1) Battle Mage: Untitled
(1) Untitled: cerebus3
(1) Netlava: Cyberbob
(1) armlx: Erratus Apathos
(1) animorpherv1: StrangerCoug


(7) Not Voting: raider8169, cris150, Mr. T, maxwellhouse, Citizen Karne, MafiaMann, earthworm

With 26 alive, it takes 14 votes to lynch!

Last Post Count Eight of Day One

Key:
Green - posted in last 24 hours
Yellow - posted in last 48 hours
Olive - Posted in last 72 hours
Red - Posted more than 72 hours ago, prodded
Dark Red - Requiring Replacement
Dark Blue - Vacation/Limited Access

hasdgfas

DynamoXI

MafiaMann

Erratus Apathos

raider8169

StrangerCoug

earthworm

maxwellhouse

nhat

Veronica13

Cass

Battle Mage

Lowell

Cephrir

Cyberbob

Netlava

Untitled

armlx

Korts

Snaps_The_Pirate

OpposedForce

cris150

animorpherv1

cerebus3

Mr. T

Citizen Karne

animorpherv1 has requested replacement.
Prodding Opposed Force, cris150, and Citizen Karne.

[Battle Mage]

[*]Post 73 - Excellent dissection of why the pact was (is?) a Bad Idea.

Let me briefly outline the points made in post 73, and why they are not 'excellent'.

1. The Pact is based on a first-come, first-serve, basis - Complete Lie.
2. Scum would join the treaty - This means we can lynch everybody who joins the treaty, and win the game, no?
3. Scum can bandwagon relentlessly without any risk - If you see somebody wagoning people they dont feel are that scummy, they are probably scum themselves. It's how Mafia is played. This is just a great way of doing it
4. Identical voting patterns - This is true, and valid, but then, it is the case with all bandwagons- not just those made by signatories of the pact. It's not all about WHERE you vote, but also HOW you vote.

FoS: CyberBob

for being, just plain WRONG.

BM

Shouldn't you be FOSing ME for being just plain wrong, because it's MY post?

You didnt call it 'excellent' now, did you? I can concede that some people are so blinded by their own arrogance and self-righteousness that they believe whatever they say is always right. But when somebody else buys into it? I'm not standing for it.

1-What else would you have me assume? What else you you base entrance on? townieness? The game hadn't even started. Kort's acceptance seemed random enough, you discussed it with him, he said it wasn't that bad, and you let him in.

I wanted people who were going to be active, so we could actually test the credentials of the pact. Korts seemed to be keen on a similar strategy, and i thought his support would be useful. With a 10+ page pre-game, i think it's fair to say that we will have quite alot of info to go on in a much shorter space of time than with normal games.

That and all the "/in for pact" posts gave me the impression it was essentially first-come-first-served (not literally, I read the acceptance criteria on the pact, but it sure looked like the unanimous decisions were going to be basically just going to be first-come-first-served, because what else would they be based on?). Also, I never said that was how the pact worked, I said the impression I had gained, and said why I had gained that impression, how is that a Complete Lie? Reread my post, with emphasis on "seems to be" and "because".

Ok, at least you have read the pact. I will just clarify that the 'in for pact' posts mean nothing.

2-I don't even understand this point. We couldn't lynch the whole pact because scum wouldn't be stupid enought to send their entire team into it. The majority would be town, but among them would still be scum getting a free ride. Or is your comment about lynching them all some kind of sarcasm?

Can scum day-talk? It's irrelevant anyway, as your point was that scum would join the pact, and my retort was that, we can still lynch them, if you are claiming the pact will be over-run by them. If not, then i dont see your concern.

3-"If you see somebody wagoning people they dont feel are that scummy, they are probably scum themselves." Then the scum just won't show that they don't feel the people are that scummy. Am I missing something?

Yes you are. Then you simply look for the sods who claim to genuinely suspect everybody!

BM

[Netlava]

In my head, I think of Cephrir as nearly confirmed innocent, despite him having done absolutely nothing to put himself there.

I think this is a bit of a false dilemma.

I'm sorry that I couldn't catch up at a better time.

You finished reading the thread though, I assume?

Post 502-Netlava: Only a minor scumtell? Really? That's not what I understood when you pointed it out. Also, is the game you mention in the last sentence over?

Yup, I think it's a possible buddy up attempt, but not a definite one. Also the game in question is indeed over.

[hasdgfas]

Post 502-Netlava: Only a minor scumtell? Really? That's not what I understood when you pointed it out. Also, is the game you mention in the last sentence over?

Yup, I think it's a possible buddy up attempt, but not a definite one. Also the game in question is indeed over.

Mind linking us to it then so we can see what you're talking about?

[Cass]

@BM: repeating my question: you said scum would join the pact - so why are you not pursuing anyone who joined the pact? It seems rather contradictory.

I'm very disappointed animorph is running off like that. Also that seven people seem not to be playing the game at all (and if they're scum, looks like they're getting away with it too...)

[Battle Mage]

@BM: repeating my question: you said scum would join the pact - so why are you not pursuing anyone who joined the pact? It seems rather contradictory.

I'm very disappointed animorph is running off like that. Also that seven people seem not to be playing the game at all (and if they're scum, looks like they're getting away with it too...)

No i didn't lol. People seem to think that when i pick holes in other people's logic, my repeating their logic to do so is a reflection of my personal view.

BM

[Citizen Karne]

I'm sorry, I have been a little caught up with school as of late, and have not been able to post for three days. I apologize for any inconvenience and will finish my read and post.

[Netlava]

*digs through old posts*

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6&start=12

O rly?

Who's misrepresenting who?

I guess I have to repeat myself again. I mentioned that I was looking for a specific response where a baddie would jump in and argue solely around a game mechanic and on principle. Baddies love to argue on principle. I suspect that you are taking this personally and feel that I am implying you are scum after your response to my trap. I didn't find anything wrong with your reaction. But right now, I think you are being paranoid.

I was obvscum in this game as you can see. Now compare it to this:

Wow, does that sound like he is scared of BM?

SrangerCoug has said an awful lot, but has not said very much. He mentions his case on me a few times. What case? He has said nothing for me to defend.

He also talks about being misrepresented, yet he stated I was anti-pact. My only comment on the pact was that it was null and wouldn’t affect the game one way or the other. How is that “anti-pact”?

Who is mis-representing who?

StrangerCoug has yet to anwser my simple question “Why did he initially vote BM?”. It’s a very simple and fair question. Yet he has completely ignored it.

Now, as a fellow maker of this type of post, I can say a number of things about it. The sentence "Who's misrepresenting who?" suffers some of the same types of problems I was pointing out with earthworm's earlier posts, though to a lesser extent, in that it does not take a side, but implies guilt of one side. Saying "who's misrepresenting who" was my way of interjecting into an argument between two people, and sort of taking a side, but still keeping options flexible. I do not like the sound of that post.

Also, the "scared of BM" thing I don't like. I almost expected someone to post that, even though it looks nothing of the sort. I'd say it's more of a convenient misinterpretation.

And finally, he votes someone for not answering questions, which I did a lot as scum (in a different game).

[raider8169]

@Netlava, I remember that game, though it was my first I didnt see you acting very scummy more you just backed yourself in a corner either way just because someone uses that phrase doesn't make them automatically scum.

@hasdgfas It easier to keep up with the game as it is going which is what I mainly do. To backtrack at this point will take me a while. I normally only have 5-10 minutes here and there so I drop in post in one or 2 games and leave for a bit. Its doesnt work in a game this size so I am trying to figure out a way that will.

[Veronica13]

Has Raider said anything of substance yet? He seems to just pop in every once in a while - say hi, still playing and reading - and hop off.

That concerns me a little.