Newbie 655: Zeroville. (Game Over!)

[WhereIsTony]

I would hold off, It makes sense to hear from syphens replacement, and the michel if he does not get replaced as well.

Normally I would vote for a random person, to spur reaction, and then change to person I suspect more.

It just happpens my firsat random vote ended up being the one i suspected.

[M4yhem]

Tony- If tum is scum num one, who's his partner?

Somedamnkid- If Tony's scum, who's his buddy?

[WhereIsTony]

Hard to say with Syphen gone for awhile its hard to get a read

My top guesses would be
Michel or somedamnkid. Michel stirs things up and SDK vanishes at length and comes off way aggressive. Sometimes you seem like a potential mafia member because of your desire to speed up the game.

[somedamnkid]

Tume, He is far too defensive and is taking things more personally than what the situation calls for.

followed in no particular order by Jon because he keeps repeating himself, J_Slr because his theories are a bit strange, and M4yhem for being too pushy/antsy.

[J_Slr]

Tume, He is far too defensive and is taking things more personally than what the situation calls for.

followed in no particular order by Jon because he keeps repeating himself, J_Slr because his theories are a bit strange, and M4yhem for being too pushy/antsy.

Of course my theories are strange, I like thinking outside the box.

Also I would like to point out that this probably your least aggressive post this game so far.

And yes before people start pointing fingers this is a filler/contentless post.
Will contribute shortly.

[J_Slr]

Scum list :

1. Syphen 1

2. somedamnkid 4

3. The Pope's Tiara 5

4. JonMW 3

5. M4yhem 7

6. Yuu 6

7. WhereIsTony 2

8. MichelSableheart

*1. Syphen - still top of the list

2. WhereIsTony - look at somedamnkid's case/reasoning (post subject 219)

3. JonMW - sorry Jon but as both Tum and SDK have proved themselves you were next in line.

4. somedamnkid - you are still aggressive but I realise now, that this is probably something that we need in this game.

5. Tumescence - unlike pope, tum has arrived and had to defend himself the whole way, for someone else and on top of that, going over pope's posts I see someone freaking out which is not necessarily proof of scum, just a lack of nerves.

6. Yuu

7. M4yhem - seriously if you are scum, the town has lost, no 2 ways about, because I can find no reason to suspect you of anything

**8. MichelSableheart

* Syphen is still at the top as he not pitched or done anything, that being said I still want to wait for him or his replacement to pitch up

** I have nothing on Michel, but that could be more due to his lack of activity than anything.

[J_Slr]

EDBWOP - ugh! The numbers next to the names in the quote are where I have re-ranked people too.

[tumescence]

This might be my last post for about 4 days, as I fly to America today.

Tumescence,... who would you have voted?

Currently my suspicions rest primarily on WhereIsTony and JonMW. Syphen is also very suspicious, but I'll reserve opinion till he speaks up.

I would lynch WhereIsTony. I already gave reasons why I suspect him as early as post#183. I'll catalogue all or most of them here:
1) has many insubstantial, one-line posts.
2) was voting for Pope based on factual errors (he said Pope "role-claimed" cop)
3) his lengthy post#106 on why Pope is scum is actually very weak
4) has constantly refused to defend himself; has not addressed my arguments against him
5) claims he does not want to defend himself because he is scum-hunting, but is in reality scumhunting very little
6) asked everyone whether he should reevaluate his opinion of me based on MY posts, but then failed to reevaluate his opinion. He constantly keeps referring to his earlier reasons, but fails to provide current ones.
7) put me at L-1 without giving me a chance to defend myself

Reason #6 was taken from SomeDamnKid's post. I suggest you read it, because it raises some intriguing points.

It is still possible that Tony is merely a terribly unskilled, time-strapped townie... but I would still lean towards lynching him as he's our best bet now, and is helping the town very little. As time progresses, and suspicions on him grow, and he constantly refuses to defend himself, he will only become a liability and distraction for the town.
------------------

Since this is possibly my last post (forever), I'll list my analysis of all the players, which has changed from what is was.

1. WhereIsTony: Extremely suspicious, for the reasons listed previously.
2. JonMW: I find his logic flawed, as I explained in an earlier post. This combined with his wishy-washy behaviour, double standards and OMGUS vote on me, make him tie for top suspect with Tony. The main reason I'm not voting for him is that he has made an effort to contribute and defend himself, albeit in his very flawed way. If Tony turns out to be townie today, I would lynch Jon tomorrow.
3. Syphen: Since he has been away, my suspicions of him remain unaltered. I'll reserve jugdment till he resurfaces.
4. Michel: Since he has been away, my suspicions of him remain unaltered.
5. M4yhem: Slightly Townie. I appreciate his readiness to answer all questions directed at him. Has generally helped the town. I strongly disagree with his "poll"-voting, though, which is doubly suspicious coming from an IC.
6. SDK: Slightly townie. Seems to want to scumhunt, goes into detail. I liked his observations in his earlier post about Tony.
7. Yuu: Almost townie. I was initially suspicious of her, but her recent voluntary surge in posting convinces me that she's townie. Plus, I think she had many opportunities to jump onto the Tum-lynch-bandwagon, but she's still asking me questions.
8. J_Slr: The only one who is almost confirmed townie. In addition to his scumhunting etc., he has expressed definite views on all the players (something a scum might be reluctant to do) and has taken positions contrary to what the town thinks (despite what M4yhem said).

[tumescence]

Friends, roled-men, townies,

lend me your ears, brains and attentions!

I currently have 4 votes on me. Here are the reasons for those votes:

Syphen:"to admit nervousness screams scum to me"
JonMW: "your attention is focused on what I'm doing, and you seem to be spending all your energy on attacking me."
"I just got really tired of the way he [tumescence] threw me in a bad light"
M4yhem: "In the interests of moving the game forward and since he's leading the 'who's scummy' polls at the moment"
WhereIsTony: "The reasons I have voted for pope I have gone over again and again."

Syphen is missing. Jon basically revenge-voted me. M4yhem is "poll"-voting me. WhereIsTony has failed to provide his reasons for voting ME, and merely keeps referring to his past reasons for voting Pope.

Please, people, READ CAREFULLY through those reasons. Please, reject mob-thinking.
-------------

Tume: What I have seen from you so far has not been very good. Your focus appears to be not getting lynched rather than finding scum. Why are you so defensive?

First off, you gave a solidly analytical post on why Tony could be scum. For that, I give you +25% Townie.

I have scumhunted and analyzed plenty, much more than WhereIsTony, JonMW or Syphen have. Perhaps even more than Yuu or Michel have. Why do you not attack them for their weak scumhunting?

I defend myself so much because I entered a game where many people already harbored strong suspicions against me. Even now I stand on the brink of a lynch. As I know I'm an innocent, I have to try my best to avoid a mislynch.

But calling my statements "defensive" is an oversimplification, because I have been attacking people SIMULTANEOUSLY. In fact, sometimes what SEEMS like a defense is actually an attack. Heck, JonMW went as far as to say:
"You seem to be spending all your energy on attacking me."

??

[tumescence]

Because your score does not come just from the scum but from townies as well.

It is my hope

that, because there are more townies than scum, the really scummy people will still get the highest scores, even with the scum giving high scores to the scummiest-looking townies to protect themselves.

M4yhem, that's a very impractical hope. There are plenty of opportunities for scum to easily manipulate a poll-vote.

Let's suppose there are 2 dumb townies in the game. They erroneously give the highest scores to a scummy-looking townie. Now all the scums have to do is to give high or moderate scores to that scummy-looking townie, and voila!!! They have a lynch!

That is just one example of the things that can go wrong with poll-voting.

Moreover, if people poll-vote, then we will have less or no evidence to hold them culpable. They can say: "I voted it thus because that's what the polls indicated!" We must make people articulate their OWN reasons for voting, rather than hide behind a poll.

M4yhem, can you give me examples of expert-games which use this poll-voting system you have proposed?

If very few, or no, expert-games use this poll-voting paradigm, why do YOU, as an IC, insist on using it here?

I ask you again: why are YOU voting for me?

[tumescence]

I just noticed something.

SDK: you have built a strong case against Tony. If he is scum, do you really think I'm his scumbuddy?! He has been attacking me from the start, has put me at L-1. I too have been attacking him constantly, had initially ranked him as my 2nd scummiest suspect, and now am trying to get him lynched!

How is it plausible that we're scumbuddies?
-----------------------------------

Re: Pope's cop claim.

For me, it seemed more like a very desperate act. He could've been pointing the dangers of random voting - but why? I think the ICs had clearly stated that, in the beginning of the game, it was a good move. The only way I could've seen him then pointing out the 'dangers' of random voting was to save himself, not to warn people. For me, it was a move that, no matter wether Pope truly was a cop, mafia or townie, put the town at risk.

Hm... actually you raised a good point. I hadn't noticed that M4yhem had already pointed out that random voting was standard in the beginning of the game (although Michel immediately disagreed with him, saying that random-voting was unnecessary). I might need to reevaluate my take on Pope's comment based on that (give me some time).

I acknowledge that he might not have been doing what I think he was doing but I find the alternatives harder to believe. It still seems to me that Pope wouldn’t have said ‘I might be the cop’ if he didn’t want people to think that he might be the cop.

Since we both acknowledge that both purposes are possible, it seems we have reached an impasse. Although it might "seem" to you that Pope's comment was meant to make others think of him as cop, I definitely beg to differ. We can't really convince each other at this point, since we have differing interpretations; no doubt my interpretation is colored by knowledge of the fact that Pope was innocent.

I fear we have to agree to disagree.

But note that Jon is arguing that the ONLY possible purpose for Pope was to imply he was a cop; Jon has refused to consider or address the alternatives.

[WhereIsTony]

This might be my last post for about 4 days, as I fly to America today.

Tumescence,... who would you have voted?

Currently my suspicions rest primarily on WhereIsTony and JonMW. Syphen is also very suspicious, but I'll reserve opinion till he speaks up.

I would lynch WhereIsTony. I already gave reasons why I suspect him as early as post#183. I'll catalogue all or most of them here:
1) has many insubstantial, one-line posts.
2) was voting for Pope based on factual errors (he said Pope "role-claimed" cop)
3) his lengthy post#106 on why Pope is scum is actually very weak
4) has constantly refused to defend himself; has not addressed my arguments against him
5) claims he does not want to defend himself because he is scum-hunting, but is in reality scumhunting very little
6) asked everyone whether he should reevaluate his opinion of me based on MY posts, but then failed to reevaluate his opinion. He constantly keeps referring to his earlier reasons, but fails to provide current ones.
7) put me at L-1 without giving me a chance to defend myself

Reason #6 was taken from SomeDamnKid's post. I suggest you read it, because it raises some intriguing points.

It is still possible that Tony is merely a terribly unskilled, time-strapped townie... but I would still lean towards lynching him as he's our best bet now, and is helping the town very little. As time progresses, and suspicions on him grow, and he constantly refuses to defend himself, he will only become a liability and distraction for the town.

First of all, the terribly unskilled comment is way out of line.

1. I disagree, I see no problem with one line post if they are frequent.
2. I believe he did role claim, your desperate claims otherwise have not convinced me
3. how is it weak exactly?
4. The innocent need not defend themselves, and as I said the best way to defend yourself is to find scum. anything else could easily be a lie.
5. see number four.
6. I asked if I should re-evaluate you, got the answer "both" and have decided that while you may be a better liar than pope, it does not change your role.
7. I merely changed my vote back since my pseudo prod was no longer needed.

[WhereIsTony]

Tum keeps acting like the only reason to vote for hjim is pope's cop claim.

He also moved to lynch people who have not posted, and frequently went with an anyone but me tactic both of which are very scummy.

[WhereIsTony]

I also don't buy into your flqawed argument that

a) my reasons for voting for you are old (as if over time if you were scum you had changed roles)
b) you have not had time to defend yourself

a and b can't both be true.

[Erg0]

Vote Count

tumescence 4 (Syphen, JonMW, M4yhem, WhereIsTony)
WhereIsTony 2 (somedamnkid, tumescence)
JonMW 1 (Yuu)
Yuu 1 (J_Slr)

Not Voting 1 (MichelSableheart)

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

Still looking for a new Syphen. MichelSableheart is yet to pick up his prod, but I'll give him another day or two.

[somedamnkid]

SDK: you have built a strong case against Tony. If he is scum, do you really think I'm his scumbuddy?! He has been attacking me from the start, has put me at L-1. I too have been attacking him constantly, had initially ranked him as my 2nd scummiest suspect, and now am trying to get him lynched

It's only day one so I'm not thinking very hard about scumbuddies, That only comes into play once there is a confirmed mafia. But just for kicks and giggles:
It would be a very logical move for mafia to attack each other. When scum is found everyone will go back through all their posts to try and find his buddy. If the scum has been attacking the buddy, though, it becomes harder to find the second.

[J_Slr]

Oh whoops!

Sorry Yuu, meant to have done this earlier. You have since responded and made yourself heard so my vote is now just a waste so

unvote

[Erg0]

Sorry folks, still hunting for that replacement. MichelSableheart will also be replaced as soon as possible.

Edit: afatchic replaces Syphen.

Special Bonus Edit: populartajo replaces MichelSableheart.

Deadline will be imposed soon.

[populartajo]

Hi guys. Let me some time to reread. I may be posting tomorrow.

[afatchic]

hey everyone, im the new replacement! im about to go and reread the past ten pages, but has it really been a month and still day one? wow! alright ill post my thoughts shortly

[afatchic]

hey everyone.... i just read the entire ten pages straight through for the past few hours so my mind is gong everywhere right now and i have already forgot some of the stuff at the beginning that struck me as weird, but i will do my best to recap.

I would like to start off by giving my views about the claiming the cop role by pope, since it seems to be popular. So he could have been warning the people to stop bandwagoning their random votes so they don't mislynch the cop, however he was the only one near a lynch at the time, so in other words he was saying be careful of your random votes (so you don't lynch me) cuz you never know who is the cop. just how i took it.

i think i am going to go ahead and keep going on the pope/tume wagon for a minute. he seems that one of his few claims is that everyone should pull their votes because they are interpreting the cop role claim wrong. then he has tried to complain that no one has re-evaluated his character once he arrived, that everyone was already biased. yet its the same character, just different players, so you have to keep the information you gathered from the first person to use when making your decision.

another thing that bothers me about tume. is that he acts so naive and nubbish that he thinks he is supposed to role claim, and tried to make it way too clear to everyone that he is just a townie, yet the rest of his play doesn't seem all that nubbish to me.

some other things that pope did seem to have bothered me when i read it, but after reading ten pages i have forgotten it and can't find it at the moment. i do remember him making a lot of errors at the beginning, and i just credited that to being new, however as it progressed he seemed to have started playing better then going back to how he started, like he was trying to ride his newb card.

[afatchic]

now i just figured i would give a brief summary of how i read everyone right now.

Tony is 2nd on my list right now. his play always seemed a little strange to me, how he seemed to just have tunnel vision and always focus on pope. then the L-1 vote on tume. seemed real awkward. he can say that it was because michel got prodded, but that still doesn't deny that fact that he still put the L-1 vote on him the post following M4yhem quickly changed his vote to Tume, and yet neither seemed to give very good reasons for the votes.

Jon would be next. his play at the beginning seemed very strange, which is why i would put him as my number 3. his post #75 really did not sit well with me. it seems like he was trying to push a quick lynch or something. then how he never really wanted to let go of how pope role claimed. and he always seemed way too defensive when questioned. although i will admit, his play does seem to have picked up some.

Next would be SDK. all game i was never too sure about him. one post would give me town vibes the next scum vibes, but then when he posted #219 i got a good feeling about him since it seemed like he is trying to help the town, however he is still one that could go either way with me.

Im thinking Michel comes next since he didn't ever post a whole lot. however i disagree with the idea that he was mafia just lurking since in post #157 he says regarding the mafia, "winning the game by confusing all other players is perfectly fine, but winning the game by simply not being there should never be acceptable." so i believe being an IC in a newbie game he would have replaced long ago if he was scum, but we should still give an open mind to the new replacement.

M4yham has confused me most game. i haven't found any flaws with him so far, besides the quick vote i am somewhat confused about. he seems like the perfect town player, extremely helpful prodding questions and stuff, drawing out information. yet this scares me because if you are scum i have no idea how we would figure it out.

YUU has seemed nearly all pro town to me and i don't have a whole lot to add about her.

the same goes with J_Slr. i would probably trust him the most out of anybody at this point.

if i have made any errors in my post of views please feel free to correct me and i am very sorry for it.

[afatchic]

Oh one last thing, im going to UNVOTE since i think the person i replaced for still has his random vote on tume. and it wouldn't be fair to tume. to leave it on their since he is at L-1 and i just don't like the idea of having an L-1 with him not here right now.

also i will try to be much more active than Syphen was.

[WhereIsTony]

Welcome afatchic, thank you for the quick list. It will be good to get more post from you since I am clueless at this point to syphen.

[M4yhem]

Hello afatchic and populartajo!

I know I own all of youse a big post. I don't have time right now but you all will get it either later this evening or tomorrow.