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Post Post #1100 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:18 pm

Post by Glitch »

In post 1075, Noraa wrote:
In post 1072, Hopkirk wrote:So you're planning to do nothing to develop any scumreads on anyone while spending the whole day doing nothing useful then join a wagon at deadline and complain nobody's doing anything in the game for a third day straight?
I'm not engaging u anymore. ur pissing me off.
In post 1078, Noraa wrote:No. Im putting this game on the back burner. Learn to appreciate an active noraa bc I stop whenever I want to.
If you're going to act like this then you need to replace out. This is juvenile and you do it all the time. Any time you're under pressure you get mad.

This is Mafia. You sign up to be under scrutiny. If you don't like it, you need to not play.
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Post Post #1101 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:19 pm

Post by Glitch »

I'm crashing hard. I wanted to do more but I am so sleepy and I was falling asleep as I caught up. I'll come back tomorrow after work.
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Post Post #1102 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:54 pm

Post by nopointinactingup »

@Mod: I think you got yesterday's final vote count wrong. Trendall was missing on the Keita wagon and I wasn't the hammer, just a back-up hammer


Going to try to catch up and do a full VCA tomorrow so yes it matters to me that the VC were correct.

I'm spent but I'm getting this out once more. I don't mean to sound like a broken record but it's NOT about set-up speculation as some people here has read my case as, I completely believe in his claim. It's about whether or not his Day 1 action made sense for his claim and from there we can deduce his alignment. What happened was:

Hopkirk, the doc-enabler, caught a doctor breadcrumb from Plusjoyed (this made a lot of sense if he was enabler).
In post 578, Hopkirk wrote:VOTE: Flub

I buy the claim. Was the softclaim I spotted for doc intended?
At this point, as an doc-enabler, he should be 100% sure that Plus is the real doctor and it was reflected in his revote.

However, after Derp's claim, he jumped to the premise that Plus was scum
In post 618, Hopkirk wrote:If Plusjoy is scum then his team must suck
In post 624, Hopkirk wrote:I guess I just don't want Plus to be scum because it means the game is going to be super meh/uninteresting tbh
And finally a hammer.
In post 627, Hopkirk wrote:VOTE: PlusJoy
If you were
1. a doc enabler +
2. you saw a doc breadcrumb from someone +
3. they are the first to claim doc (how do scum know there is a doc?)
Why in the world would you believe in a CC and settle for their lynch instead of revealing yourself to save them? Even No lynching was better

The only plausible explanation for this is that Hopkirk realized he could get away with this doc lynch with the support of another doc (possibly town). This is the only solve

Now when I questioned him, all I've gotten are deflections (saying I'm making bad set-up speculations) and excuses, this makes him seem even scummier imo.

I'm also pretty sure the general consensus around Hopkirk being a universal town-read is probably a lie being propagated by the scum team. Although I'm not a fan of partner speculation before the flip, I have a strong feeling that's where I'd likely find the rest.

~~~

Catch-up, VCA and more thoughts on others tomorrow.
Justice will prevail
\m/
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Post Post #1103 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:39 pm

Post by Hopkirk »

To address each of your points there, but first off I'll address the one that your thoughts rely on that's objectively not true. I can't engage with you in any meaningful way until you accept the first premise below because everything you're saying is based off the premise there's 'no alternative' to your thoughts when you're ignoring a very clear and much more likely explination:
At this point, as an doc-enabler, he should be 100% sure that Plus is the real doctor and it was reflected in his revote.
If you were a doctor enabler, had seen no game had EVER had two doctors in it before, and there are two doctor claims then are you going to either
a.) 100% sure there must be two doctors in this game with no reasons to support this
b.) Think the first doctor claim is a claim from scum who got caught out by a counterclaim (this happens all the time in mafia)

The fact that you're considering b as
literally 0% likely
makes everything you say hard conf.bias and objectively bad. There's a very clear reason for town DE to vote what he thinks is probably a fakeclaim. Why is it LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE that town-Hop thinks that PJ is probably scum that got caught out on a fakeclaim? You have said this outright because you can't see 'any plausible' alternative your your theory.

----
On to more specific points

- PJ immediately said that he hadn't softclaimed. Scum and town PJ both say that because scum PJ doesn't want to say 'yes' because he didn't and doesn't want to get caught out, while town PJ doesn't want to say 'yes' because he didn't and doesn't want to lie.
- I vote PJ because a counterclaim is 100% more believable than an initial claim because scum (unless they're in a bad spot already) doesn't have the incentive to counterclaim that town do.
-Scum PJ wouldn't know there was a doc? That's why I assumed they got caught out on a CC.
- I suggested we vote for someone else. The doc claimers didn't want to do this.
- If PJ is scum there then I absolutely don't want to claim.
Now when I questioned him, all I've gotten are deflections (saying I'm making bad set-up speculations) and excuses, this makes him seem even scummier imo.
This is a terrible faith argument. I've outlined my thought processes throughout. Using the word 'excuses' here makes me think there isn't any argument you'd accept. What I bought when I voted PJ was that Derp was town, NOT that there were two doctors in the game. That's very clearly why I voted PJ
There's no reaching. I've become enlightened.
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Post Post #1104 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:57 pm

Post by Hopkirk »

I kind of feel like Nopoint is town here because there's a much better vector of attack scum-NP could be taking.

Fun fact - there's a pretty good mechanical reason that a doctor enabler should look fishy that I'm really surprised nobody has mentioned. Doctor enabler claiming at the start of the game means doc can protect them thus nullifying the mafia's ability to swtich doc off. Likewise, two docs can protect in a loop. People have suggested the mafia having a strongman as a way around this, or a roleblocker. While this works initially, the game balance gets screwey if one of the mafia with those abilities died. Fortunately for our mod though, there's a solution to that. Make the doctor enabler immune to the doctor heal so that mafia can always switch off the doctors. Better yet, make the doc enabler aware of this so that they can't claim while the doctors aren't around. That's called a 'macho' role modifier
@Derp - I'm thinking something like rolling a d3 and protecting me only on the three is a good sweet spot.


Which is why I told Derp to only protect me at a very low % chance yesterday. If I'm not macho then you set that to like 60-80% of the time protect me rather than the 30% I suggested.

Why am I claiming this now? Because mafia might have worked this out either now or later. Plus I don't really want to be playing this game anymore. It feels like pulling teeth, or it would if anyone actually showed up. Maybe hide and seek and pull one tooth out of anyone you find then let them hide again would be a better description.


Btw to anyone saying mafia doc enabler/doc/doc is possible - its not because it can lead to weird endgame situations that a game reviewer leads to weird situations like mafia/mafia doc enabler/doc/doc that's technically a draw, despite being a win for mafia if they vote off their own enabler, or either town.
Also, mafia's only counterplay to docs being for a specific member of their team dying is mechanically terrible because they can't guarantee getting that person voted off and it cripples their team. A mafia 'doc enabler' gives the mafia 0 counterplay to two town docs claiming and trusting each other and this would NEVER pass setup review for a normal. They need some way around it, so you'd have to have like a strongman and a roleblocker as well to balance it around that... at which point the doc enabler isn't even relevant to the setup balance.
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Post Post #1105 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:59 pm

Post by Hopkirk »

In post 1087, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Honestly I would vote flubber but the thing keeping me off is you, hopkirk, and your insistence he's scum.

Derp who did you defend last night?
What the fuck? There's absolutely no reason to be saying this without a vote on me.

If you don't want to wagon Flubber because you think someone attacking him might be scum then you should be actively against me rather than hard shading here.

Flubber/Johnny are the only votes I'm considering today. I don't remotely care which because Its both.
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Post Post #1106 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:02 am

Post by Hopkirk »

In post 889, JohnnyFarrar wrote:
In post 829, Flubbernugget wrote:up to p 32

I believe all claims are truthful
Town Flubber is here
This is not a reason to townread someone. Johnny has refused to elaborate how he justifies his (what looks like a hard) townread on Flubber based on this. I've asked him to elaborate more than once.
In post 951, JohnnyFarrar wrote:You know what let's do it. This game and it's deadness is depressing me

VOTE: keita

People that read this join or tell me why not
This vote was shit.
In post 1084, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Damn is it ello?

Noraa seems flaily in a way I've never seen in her before. Maybe a little at the end of betrayal, but that seemed less frustrated?

Hopkirk your flubber case was weak, and we're approaching "this is a pet read for hopkirk to coast by on" territory. Why are you voting Flubber and not me, for example?
How about you get some goddamn reads before you even consider attacking me for having reads. Including lockscum on you.
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Post Post #1107 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:10 am

Post by Hopkirk »

I honestly hate this game at this point. Glitch and Derp are the only other people who seem to even remotely care about it enough to put any amount of effort in. We've had two days of shit where nobody wants to vote and we can't get anything done. Literally half the game has no reads and nobody cares. We haven't had even one decent wagon the entire game. The only vote people wanted to go with yesterday was essentially a policy lethal. Mafia only works if people who join actually play. I hate people who join games then refuse to do anything.

Johnny or Flubber. Take your pick.
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Post Post #1108 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:22 am

Post by Staarling »

nooooo Slime was cool, they were one of the few that trusted me :<
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Post Post #1109 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:24 am

Post by Staarling »

VOTE: Flubber
I trust you Hopkirk
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Post Post #1110 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:30 am

Post by Staarling »

i still think Noraa is mafia
when she gets angry it feels fake to a Staarling, like she's trying to look like it because townies usually get angry
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Post Post #1111 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:12 am

Post by derp »

In post 1084, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Damn is it ello?

Noraa seems flaily in a way I've never seen in her before. Maybe a little at the end of betrayal, but that seemed less frustrated?
so what does johnny think about it?
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Post Post #1112 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:14 am

Post by Noraa »

I am back ^^
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Post Post #1113 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:16 am

Post by Noraa »

Trendall and Flubber will need to get prodded in like a day.
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Post Post #1114 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:16 am

Post by Noraa »

By far, my least favorite might still be Staarling. That entrance .... was bad.

It agreed with all of consensus and was LAMIST about the nk :/
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Post Post #1115 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:17 am

Post by Noraa »

I won't push it tho bc I do understand that its likely LHF and I had pretty strong suspicions that Keita was scum and that was completely wrong.
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Post Post #1116 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:18 am

Post by Noraa »

I'll join Flubber if that wagon needs extra votes but I dont really think its a good wagon.
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Post Post #1117 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:20 am

Post by derp »

@nopoint derp can appreciate the concern regarding hopkirk but there is simply no way hopkirk is getting yeeted today

u are free to try to evalaute a world where hopkirk is scum but basing ur world upon that seems very counterproductive for today, so dear derp really believes independent scum reads are way more important at this stage

but if u can only see hopkirk as scum then id like u to just entertain the idea for a moment that he is town and how that affects ur reads
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Post Post #1118 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:21 am

Post by derp »

In post 1116, Noraa wrote:I'll join Flubber if that wagon needs extra votes but I dont really think its a good wagon.
why do u not believe it is a good wagon?
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Post Post #1119 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:23 am

Post by Noraa »

In post 1118, derp wrote:
In post 1116, Noraa wrote:I'll join Flubber if that wagon needs extra votes but I dont really think its a good wagon.
why do u not believe it is a good wagon?
reasons are bad. We've been over this. I think the reasons are bad. If you think the reasons are good, that's cool but I dont so that's that.
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Post Post #1120 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:23 am

Post by Noraa »

In post 1100, Glitch wrote:then you need to replace out.
ur not technically allowed to tell me this ....
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Post Post #1121 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:28 am

Post by derp »

In post 1119, Noraa wrote:
In post 1118, derp wrote:
In post 1116, Noraa wrote:I'll join Flubber if that wagon needs extra votes but I dont really think its a good wagon.
why do u not believe it is a good wagon?
reasons are bad. We've been over this. I think the reasons are bad. If you think the reasons are good, that's cool but I dont so that's that.
we have went over this and no matter what ur alignment is u need to understand that u failed to answer this properly

if u are townreading him then ur stance makes sense but u are not willing to commit to a townread, all u have said is that this is an inactive slot that "u cant solve because he is not doing anything" yet u have no issue with trying to solve other slots that are not doing anything either

so why do u think it is a bad wagon? only reason for u to think it would be a bad wagon would be if u think he is town

also derp is really curious as to who the scum are? because earlier when derp asked u u did mention him but now u claim he is a bad wagon once again
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Post Post #1122 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:20 am

Post by Trendall »

In post 1078, Noraa wrote:No. Im putting this game on the back burner. Learn to appreciate an active noraa bc I stop whenever I want to.
Haha, Noraa's the only person in this game who makes any bloody sense to me.

VOTE: nopointinactinup
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Post Post #1123 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:08 am

Post by Noraa »

In post 1121, derp wrote:we have went over this and no matter what ur alignment is u need to understand that u failed to answer this properly

if u are townreading him then ur stance makes sense but u are not willing to commit to a townread, all u have said is that this is an inactive slot that "u cant solve because he is not doing anything" yet u have no issue with trying to solve other slots that are not doing anything either

so why do u think it is a bad wagon? only reason for u to think it would be a bad wagon would be if u think he is town

also derp is really curious as to who the scum are? because earlier when derp asked u u did mention him but now u claim he is a bad wagon once again
Keita had posts that pinged scum to be. Although Keita had less posts, the posts they made I felt more confidence in sorting.

My point on Flubber is that he has zero posts that ping me either way and he doesn't have that many posts.

I understand that Keita had less posts but their posts pinged more to me than any of Flubber's
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Post Post #1124 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:35 pm

Post by nopointinactingup »

Spoiler: Vote Count Analysis
Let's start everyone with a clean slate. Points initialized:
derp = 0
Noraa = 0
Glitch = 0
Trendall = 0
JohnnyFarrar = 0
Flubbernugget = 0
Staarling = 0
Hopkirk = 0

VC 1.1
Trendall (3)
- Flubbernugget, Glitch,
nopointinactingup

Glitch(3)
- Noraa, Trendall, derp
Staarling (1)
- bob3141
Hiraki
(1)
- MisaTange
Flubbernugget (1)
-
PlusJOYED


Not Voting (4)
- Staarling,
beeboy
,
Keita
,
Hiraki


RVS wagon starting on Trendall + A counter wagon on Glitch. Since most non-voting players are town flips, one of these wagon is likely scum-driven (also not likely competing scum wagons, not enough town influence I'd say). Leaning Glitch wagon as scum driven so Glitch gets town point and people on wagon gets scum points.

Updates:
derp = 0 - 1
Noraa = 0 - 1
Glitch = 0 + 1
Trendall = 0 - 1
JohnnyFarrar = 0
Flubbernugget = 0
Staarling = 0
Hopkirk = 0

VC 1.2
Trendall (4)
- Flubbernugget, Glitch,
nopointinactingup
,
Keita

Glitch(3)
- Noraa, Trendall, derp
Staarling (1)
- bob3141
Hiraki
(1)
- MisaTange
Flubbernugget (1)
-
PlusJOYED

No Elimination (1)
- Staarling

Not Voting (2)
-
beeboy
,
Hiraki


VC 1.3
Trendall (4)
- Flubbernugget,
nopointinactingup
,
Keita
,
PlusJOYED

Glitch(2)
- Noraa, derp
Staarling (1)
- bob3141
Hiraki
(1)
- MisaTange
No Elimination (1)
- Staarling

Not Voting (4)
-
beeboy
,
Hiraki
, Trendall, Glitch


Keita-town and Plusjoyed-town jumped Trendall and created the imbalance. The fact that town created this imbalance made Trendall more scum leaning. Glitch moved off after 1v1 wall of text.

Updates:
derp = 0 - 1
Noraa = 0 - 1
Glitch = 0 + 1
Trendall = 0 - 1 - 1
JohnnyFarrar = 0
Flubbernugget = 0
Staarling = 0
Hopkirk = 0

VC 1.4
Trendall (3)
- Flubbernugget,
Keita
,
PlusJOYED

Glitch(2)
- Noraa, derp
Noraa (2)
-
nopointinactingup
, Glitch
Staarling (1)
- bob3141
Hiraki
(1)
- MisaTange
No Elimination (1)
- Staarling

Not Voting (3)
-
beeboy
,
Hiraki
, Trendall


VC 1.5
Noraa (3)
-
nopointinactingup
, Glitch,
Keita

Trendall (2)
- Flubbernugget,
PlusJOYED

Glitch (1)
- Noraa
Staarling (1)
- Johnny Farrar
Hiraki
(1)
- MisaTange
PlusJOYED
(1)
- derp
nopointinactingup
(1)
-
Hiraki

No Elimination (1)
- Staarling

Not Voting (2)
-
beeboy
, Trendall


Dissolution of Trendall wagon when nopoint jumped off. Flub stayed adamant on Trendall. The starting of Nora's wagon over WKing Trendall, who is under heavy town pressure. This gives Nora scum points and Nora-Trendall connection. Interesting that Trendall not voting for a long time after unvote of Glitch here.

Updates:
derp = 0 - 1
Noraa = 0 - 1 - 1
Glitch = 0 + 1
Trendall = 0 - 1 - 1
JohnnyFarrar = 0
Flubbernugget = 0
Staarling = 0
Hopkirk = 0

VC 1.6
Noraa (3)
-
nopointinactingup
, Glitch,
Keita

Trendall (2)
- Flubbernugget,
PlusJOYED

Staarling (1)
- JohnnyFarrar
Hiraki
(1)
- MisaTange
PlusJOYED
(1)
- derp
nopointinactingup
(1)
-
Hiraki

Keita
(1)
- Noraa
No Elimination (1)
- Staarling

Not Voting (2)
-
beeboy
, Trendall

It takes 7 votes to hammer, meaning Noraa is at E-4


VC 1.6
Noraa (3)
-
nopointinactingup
, Glitch,
Keita

nopointinactingup
(3)
-
Hiraki
, Hopkirk, Trendall
Trendall (2)
- Flubbernugget,
PlusJOYED

PlusJOYED
(2)
- derp, JohnnyFarrar
Keita
(1)
- Noraa
No Elimination (1)
- Staarling

Not Voting (3)
-
beeboy


VC 1.6
Noraa (3)
-
nopointinactingup
, Glitch,
Keita

nopointinactingup
(2)
-
Hiraki
, Trendall
Trendall (2)
- Flubbernugget,
PlusJOYED

PlusJOYED
(2)
- derp, JohnnyFarrar
Keita
(1)
- Noraa
Flubbernugget (1)
- Hopkirk
No Elimination (1)
- Staarling

Not Voting (3)
-
beeboy


Wagon against Nopoint formed as competing wagon against Nora, while lurking wagon on Plusjoyed appears. Derp, Hop, john and trendall receives scumpoints for this.

Updates:
derp = 0 - 1 - 1
Noraa = 0 - 1 - 1
Glitch = 0 + 1
Trendall = 0 - 1 - 1 - 1
JohnnyFarrar = 0 - 1
Flubbernugget = 0
Staarling = 0
Hopkirk = 0 - 1

VC 1.7
PlusJOYED
(3)
- derp, JohnnyFarrar, Glitch
Noraa (2)
-
nopointinactingup
,
Keita

nopointinactingup
(2)
-
Hiraki
, Trendall
Trendall (2)
- Flubbernugget,
PlusJOYED

Keita
(1)
- Noraa
Flubbernugget (1)
- Hopkirk
No Elimination (1)
- Staarling

Not Voting (3)
-
beeboy


VC 1.8
PlusJOYED
(7)
- derp, JohnnyFarrar, Glitch,
Hiraki
, Flubbernugget, Noraa, Hopkirk
Noraa (2)
-
nopointinactingup
,
Keita

nopointinactingup
(1)
- Trendall
Flubbernugget (1)
-
PlusJOYED

No Elimination (1)
- Staarling

Not Voting (1)
-
The Slime Collective


Plusjoyed wagon rushed towards the deadline. An argument can be made for deadline approaching, but still scum points for those on the wagon since scums are most likely to want to get rid of doc here.

Updates:
derp = 0 - 1 - 1 - 1
Noraa = 0 - 1 - 1 - 1
Glitch = 0 + 1 - 1
Trendall = 0 - 1 - 1 - 1
JohnnyFarrar = 0 - 1 - 1
Flubbernugget = 0 - 1
Staarling = 0
Hopkirk = 0 - 1 - 1

VC 2.1
derp (3)
- Glitch, Hopkirk, Trendall

Not Voting (11)
-
The Slime Collective
, derp, JohnnyFarrar, Flubbernugget, Noraa,
nopointinactingup
,
Keita
, Staarling


Immediate 3 on derp wagon at the start of Day 2. If derp was scum, partners are likely to be found here. Since scum team didn't know there is enabler, it's logical to jump on derp for towncreds of the flip. For now no updates.

VC 2.2
derp (1)
- Glitch
Noraa (3)
- derp,
nopointinactingup
, JohnnyFarrar
Flubbernugget (1)
- Hopkirk
nopointinactingup
(1)
- Staarling
Staarling (1)
- Noraa

Not Voting (4)
-
The Slime Collective
, Flubbernugget,
Keita
, Trendall

It takes 6 votes to hammer, meaning derp is on L-3


VC 2.3
nopointinactingup
(3)
- Hopkirk, JohnnyFarrar, Trendall
Noraa (2)
-
nopointinactingup
, Staarling
derp (1)
- Glitch
Staarling (1)
- Noraa
Hopkirk (1)
-
nopointinactingup

JohnnyFarrar (1)
-
The Slime Collective

Trendall (1)
- Flubbernugget

Not Voting (2)
-
Keita
, derp


Hopkirk claimed and derp's ass is saved (doesn't feel like they are scum together though since Hopkirk voted derp before saving ass). derp gets town point for having hopkirk voted him. Wagon on Nora is formed but twice now counter wagon on Nopoint with Trendall recurring face. Nopoint is town so this is fishy af, counterwagoners get scumpoints. Nora not on this nopoint wagon so Nora gets town point.

Updates
derp = 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 + 1
Noraa = 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 + 1
Glitch = 0 + 1 - 1
Trendall = 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1
JohnnyFarrar = 0 - 1 - 1 - 1
Flubbernugget = 0 - 1
Staarling = 0
Hopkirk = 0 - 1 - 1 - 1

VC 2.4
Keita
(4)
- JohnnyFarrar, Staarling,
The Slime Collective
,
Keita

nopointinactingup
(1)
- Trendall
derp (1)
- Glitch
Staarling (1)
- Noraa
Trendall (1)
- Flubbernugget
Flubbernugget (1)
- Hopkirk

Not Voting (2)
- derp,
nopointinactingup


FINAL VC 2.5
Keita
(6)
- JohnnyFarrar, Staarling,
The Slime Collective
, Noraa, Trendall, Glitch
Staarling (2)
-
Keita
, derp
Trendall (1)
- Flubbernugget,
nopointinactingup

Flubbernugget (1)
- Hopkirk

Not Voting (0)


Lightning wagon on Keita. Johnny & Starling being the few first and vote hopping (evidence of less coordination) actually gets townpoints. Scumpoints on the rest of the wagon.

Final update
derp = 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 + 1 = -2
Noraa = 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 = -3
Glitch = 0 + 1 - 1 - 1 = -1
Trendall = 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 = -5
JohnnyFarrar = 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 + 1 = -2
Flubbernugget = 0 - 1 = -1
Staarling = 0 + 1 = 1
Hopkirk = 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 = -3


Points are mostly negative since we haven't gotten scumflip, but ordinal nature still applies.

Scumminess based on VCA:
<---Scum-----------------------------------------------------------Town---->
Trendall - Noraa - Hopkirk - Johnny - derp - Flubber - Glitch - Starling

Will return with thoughts & analysis on non-VC matters and final solve after dinner. Pls don't lynch anyone
Justice will prevail
\m/

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