Large Normal 230 - Game Over

[SirCakez]

Votecount 1.12

Pretentious (6) - NorwegianboyEE, Nero Cain, muh316, Gamma Emerald, TheDuke, Tayl0r Swift
Non lmh (2) - Albert B. Rampage, NoPowerOverMe
NorwegianboyEE (1) - Pretentious
innocentvillager (1) - DrippingGoofball
Umlaut (1) - innocentvillager
Glitch (1) - May

Not voting (5) - Non lmh, TheGoldenParadox, Umlaut, Guillotina, Glitch

(expired on 2020-11-29 10:00:00) remain until day end

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to reach a majority.

[Gamma Emerald]

You're DONE in this town. Finished. Forget about leading your lurksack coasting scumbuddies, it's OVER FOR YOU.

for some reason ABR's posting feels less biting, I kinda feel like that might be a towntell but I'm very unsure
Like I feel like in his position scum!him would have more drive to sway things in his favor. But he seems content to speak his peace and let the rest of the town see he's right (this is from his PoV, NOT MINE!). The lack of urgency I sense from ABR makes me think he is town rn, despite him defending a scummy player and pushing obvtown.

[Gamma Emerald]

Call it a working theory.

WHO are these lurksack buddies?

[Gamma Emerald]

Forget Nero.

He's had the same 5 reads since page 16.

Pretentious
Muh
Taylor
Me
IV

y do I HAVE to change my reads when we don't really have new info or flipz?

Yeah iirc I was frustrated about Nero sticking to his reads in some recent game to him but it's honestly probably a towntell for Nero to be so adamant?

[Gamma Emerald]

lol, with this argument we should just eliminate people who claim VT (and by your metric isn't "very good"). And yes, claiming VT at this point in the game even by itself is kind of a massive towntell, because VTs will almost always claim VT, scum will usually claim PR (not saying they don't claim VT, but, conditional probability etc etc)

I also feel like this is a misrepresentation of my argument. I'm not arguing lynch all VTs I'm saying that eliminating

THIS

scummy VT claim is a good play today.

sure

I just want to emphasize that I don't feel like the "VT" part matters that much

specifically, my viewpoint is simply that:

when the wagonee claims PR, they are more likely to be scum, but if we're wrong and miselim them, there's a bigger loss to be had
conversely, when the wagonee claims VT, they are less likely to be scum, but if we're wrong and miselim them, there's a smaller loss to be had

don't want to turn this into theory discussion though

The reason I'm wanting to elim in my current pool (muh, boon, guillo) is based on the monty hall problem. What happens if we switch off the VT/scum (the car in a sense) to a town PR (the goat)? I understand the application is a bit shaky given where the revealed information lies but imo it makes sense if you think about it.

[Gamma Emerald]

i mean, that is essentially the only reason why scum would ever claim VT on d1

or to avoid getting CCed on an unwise claim

[Guillotina]

NERO ISO POST BY POST ANALYSIS

133 Seems like a choice based on personal issue with Swift.
161 Discredits NPOM posting is hollow and generic
344 And goes nuclear on people when they don't.
345 How many townreads does he expect from other players on D1?
371 I answered to this in 476
375 Not a cool comment on Muh, you don't have to be so hateful.
393 Mindmeld
402 Overreaction on post 401, it was clearly a joke vote. Note this is also "Pretentious" slot now.
412 JV is right though, it is very presumptuous to say that all 4 scum are in that list. If that was true, then say goodbye to your hopes of winning the lottery cause you just used all your luck on this one. Calling you "stupid" for it was uncalled for, but unrealistic? I agree. Not discredity at all.
414 Getting accused of OMGUS over a joke is non-sensical and angering.
420 You pissed him off, instead of telling him to chill the fuck out, admit it was wrong.
446 Trivializes JV's emotions as fake. Scummy.
451 This makes no sense at all. Do you really believe his joke vote was a serious vote?
463 Pushing for votes. Voting is every town's personal power. Trying to influence it in any way or create a situation where the target feels rushed to do it is scummy as hell.
485 This pinged me as contradictory cause Nero townreads Norwee but implies Norwee is scummy by being less scummy than other slots. Pings me as someone who'd townread the other as long as he does the other bidding.
490 Is he certain that I'm not ascetic to say that?
498 Mindmeld
501 Condescending much?
503 Huh?
520 Why were these slots scummier than Norway at this point? Notice that he stills refer to Norway as still being less scummy than those slots, but scummy nonetheless.
531 Accused this slot of being pretty scummy for being lethargic and not hunting.
541 So much gaslightning here it's unreal.
542 I understand his indignation
545 So it is ok for you make questions and gaslight people left and right, but dear god they make them to you and they are scummy. What a hypocrite!
570 I scumread you by now and I'm town so, yah I agree.
572 Nice dodging. I did this analysis looking into your ISO, post by post and there is nothing clear about your scum reads by this point. Just gaslightning, condescing, triviliazing, nitpicking, making jokes into serious arguments to scum read people. You are scum Nero.
583 I think your play is scummy, I was blind when i was townreading you.
584 She is right. Now I get it why you are so hostile to everyone that disagrees and scumreads you. You fear us because you are scum.

595 Finally! Suspected JV for not playing the game when they were on? Since when do you manage what they do with their time and when they play? Silly angleshooting way to accuse someone.
Scumread Muh for casting a vote against me to get a reaction? Towns do it all the time! Did your read evolve to cast a final vote against him before Pretentious later on?
Taylor Swift.. well I can't read her so, I will let the rest of the villagers to sort her out.
ABR - Mindmeld
IV - inactivity is NAI. People have lives!

600 Hypocritical post, didn't you scumread Muh for casting a vote against me to get reactions from me earlier on?
610 Given you scumread people for inactivity, why is GoldenParadox a "???" for you? To be clear, I suspect Golden, so I'm interested in tbis answer.
623 Who knows?
624 It is impossible
625 What kind of question is this? Townreads or Scumreads don't have to be reciprocal between players. You are implying she has to townread you because her townreads, town read you! They could be wrong about you just as easy as she could be wrong about you or them.
628 Answer to my former self. He is not a noob but he might be scum.
629 Scummy comment. That is not discrediting, it is thinking objectively.
631 A seasoned player like you must know this, but if I am scumreading someone and that someone calls me a bad town, then I'll take it as you calling me a good at towning. Also, putting words in my mouth is scummy. I wonder how many red flags you are gonna keep raising here.
633 Yah... sure...it's pretty bad to form your own opinion and be objective about people (notice the sarcasm).
641 I can see the point in this.
646 A confident town is a threat to scum. You trivialize me when I oppose your reads, you gaslight Taylor when she does not sheep others into townread yu. Do you see the pattern?
704 Because I'm town.
847I think she refers to your pushing method which is scummy as hell.
858 He is right though!
859 Everyone that opposes you is scum so far and your reasons come with a plethora of scum tactics.

891 Why put your own name in your town list? Town noobs do this but you are not a noob. From a psychological stand point you feel the need to ascertain that you are town when you are scum, towns don't worry about putting the names there because they know by default they are town.

892 Your POE is made out of players who directly opposed your views. If you are not scum, you are anti-town.
894 TheGoldenParadox, refer to my question about your 610 post.
900 Oh.. so I was not the first target of your threats.
990 He is a null for me.
995 The thought crossed my mind also.
998 I think you are full of shit, stop twisting it to make it seem like I'm w/w with IV. I meant that I town leaned IV and not ABR.
1010 Yah, the problem is that you are a hypocrite, because you accuse scum read Muh for it but TheGoldenParadox is a ??? with significantly lower posts thatn pretty much everyone else?
Some people have busy very busy lives Nero.
1051 Too WIFOM to be WIFOM. It's called SARCASM!
1113 Yah scum would like to end the day as soon as possible, we got plenty of days to do more solving, why rush?
1129 So you don't scum read Muh anymore?
1131 Pretentious subbed in for JV whom you pushed based on an alleged OMGUS vote on you, you been pushing that slot for ridiculous reasons just because he opposed you earlier in the game.
1174 My thoughts exactly then again, he could just be a townie not paying attention.
1282 Feel threatened?
1304 Another threat. Scummy.
1318 Scummy proposal asking someone to carry out an action that is considered poor form is just outrageous.
1330 You are not obvtown in this analysis.
1370 This is so scummy. Since when self-preservation is AI? Even if he did it before as town it does not mean he must continue doing so to fit your meta narrative.
1387 Does he self hammer every time he is town or are you saying this based in one game?
1399 I'll consider this a threat and the last red flag I need. I don't need to continue analysing your 400 posts full crap.

I scum read Nero Cain based on this analysis.

[Guillotina]

Doing Pretentious ISO next

[innocentvillager]

also i think in general "not making sense" is more likely to be playstyle clash than actual scum

if someone doesn't make sense to me, more often than not it's town but I'm willing to assume it's actually NAI bc wifom etc etc

e.g. from this game guillotina

I think I'm understanding the IV SRs, not sure if I agree on the read but he seems very wishy-washy.

I’m told that my towngame likes to sit on a lot of fences so yeah I can come off that way I guess

Pedit: woah

[NoPowerOverMe]

Collaboration is towny. Nero is not collaborating just trying to push his agenda.

[Gamma Emerald]

my WAY TOO EARY solve is that all 4 scum is in

JacksonVirgo

Pretentious

muh316
Tayl0r Swift
Albert B. Rampage
innocentvillager

Look at this post ^

What Nero has done is harden his "way too early" solve on pg16 with no margin of error or slight deviation to the point where he's supremely confident he's right despite all evidence to the contrary.

The more the game progresses, the more certain he is of whatever his arbitrary hunch was when he started. Nobody finds scum on page 16 so I understand what's happening with him and it isn't special or worth placing any weight on.

He's not an imaginative player.

Norwee, sounds like you're playing to his meta knowledge of you to pocket him.

The reason why I win so often is because I can overcome my bias, see through illusion and form contrarian opinions that I can rally other players around eventually.

This is probably the first actual reason I've seen you put forth for why you are scumreading norway. I think it's too little too late for the strength of it to really sway me and the reason seems a bit convoluted anyway, but it's a start at least.
If you're willing to state your thoughts about which of the inactives are the scum, I'd be willing to humor those reads. I can't say I'll be willing to follow immediately but it's better than clashing over discordant reads on active slots.

[innocentvillager]

t is very presumptuous to say that all 4 scum are in that list. If that was true, then say goodbye to your hopes of winning the lottery cause you just used all your luck on this one.

lmao I’m fuckin dead

[Gamma Emerald]

oh fuck no I am NOT reading all those linked posts, you need to actually weave a real thread of logic through Nero's posts vs. just reacting to everything he says if you want me to even consider dealing with that crap. As it is I'm writing that off as a bunch of circumstantial shit, if Guillo wants to convince me he's gonna have to break that shit DOWN.

[Gamma Emerald]

if i had to pick one active player i think im most likely to be wrong on, it would be like GE

i read through my notes again and uh, it just looks like he's solving a lot and reevaluating that's really the only thing I had, which is fakeable by good scum. idk how good he is at scum

That seems like a pretty damn wrong interpretation of my play at this point. Does nothing about my Boon push matter at all to how you read me? I feel like that's probably the biggest town thing I've done this game.

[Guillotina]

oh fuck no I am NOT reading all those linked posts, you need to actually weave a real thread of logic through Nero's posts vs. just reacting to everything he says if you want me to even consider dealing with that crap. As it is I'm writing that off as a bunch of circumstantial shit, if Guillo wants to convince me he's gonna have to break that shit DOWN.

It's your choice to read it or not, I can't force you. That analysis are for the players who want to read it. No problem!

[Gamma Emerald]

Who else is here? May? DGB?

Yeah where the hell has DGB been this game? She's just thrown out some questionable reads and then dipped out.

[innocentvillager]

if i had to pick one active player i think im most likely to be wrong on, it would be like GE

i read through my notes again and uh, it just looks like he's solving a lot and reevaluating that's really the only thing I had, which is fakeable by good scum. idk how good he is at scum

That seems like a pretty damn wrong interpretation of my play at this point. Does nothing about my Boon push matter at all to how you read me? I feel like that's probably the biggest town thing I've done this game.

it’s a wrong interpretation that you’ve been solving a lot and reevaluating?

also, this was all pre boon stuff

I think I mostly just forgot why I was TRing you

I just skimmed your boon push and fine, it looks kind of towny

[Guillotina]

Rule #4 Says: Play to your win condition.

Asking anyone to self hammer is asking to not play to their wincon!!!!

[Gamma Emerald]

oh fuck no I am NOT reading all those linked posts, you need to actually weave a real thread of logic through Nero's posts vs. just reacting to everything he says if you want me to even consider dealing with that crap. As it is I'm writing that off as a bunch of circumstantial shit, if Guillo wants to convince me he's gonna have to break that shit DOWN.

It's your choice to read it or not, I can't force you. That analysis are for the players who want to read it. No problem!

Fine I'll let whoever is willing to bear through that slog give me and the rest of the rational people the lowdown (no offense to the people that actually read the post)

[innocentvillager]

The reason I'm wanting to elim in my current pool (muh, boon, guillo) is based on the monty hall problem. What happens if we switch off the VT/scum (the car in a sense) to a town PR (the goat)? I understand the application is a bit shaky given where the revealed information lies but imo it makes sense if you think about it.

? I don’t know if this will become relevant later but this makes no sense to me. You don’t have to explain if you don’t want to

I understand what Monty hall is fwiw

[Guillotina]

oh fuck no I am NOT reading all those linked posts, you need to actually weave a real thread of logic through Nero's posts vs. just reacting to everything he says if you want me to even consider dealing with that crap. As it is I'm writing that off as a bunch of circumstantial shit, if Guillo wants to convince me he's gonna have to break that shit DOWN.

By the way, how do you figure it is all circumstantial shit if you havent read it?

[Gamma Emerald]

if i had to pick one active player i think im most likely to be wrong on, it would be like GE

i read through my notes again and uh, it just looks like he's solving a lot and reevaluating that's really the only thing I had, which is fakeable by good scum. idk how good he is at scum

That seems like a pretty damn wrong interpretation of my play at this point. Does nothing about my Boon push matter at all to how you read me? I feel like that's probably the biggest town thing I've done this game.

it’s a wrong interpretation that you’ve been solving a lot and reevaluating?

also, this was all pre boon stuff

I think I mostly just forgot why I was TRing you

I just skimmed your boon push and fine, it looks kind of towny

It's kinda wrong by omission, if that's even a thing? The fact stated are true but it misses part of the picture. The thing about not having read all my stuff makes sense, and though I thought it might have been suspect the fact you called yourself on it so quickly makes me think it's not really indicative, just a thing that happened, though I'm concerned about you missing that despite seeming caught up.

[Gamma Emerald]

May has more content.

you just suggested we vote out a low-content newer player. Why is this such a sticking point given that?

[Gamma Emerald]

oh fuck no I am NOT reading all those linked posts, you need to actually weave a real thread of logic through Nero's posts vs. just reacting to everything he says if you want me to even consider dealing with that crap. As it is I'm writing that off as a bunch of circumstantial shit, if Guillo wants to convince me he's gonna have to break that shit DOWN.

By the way, how do you figure it is all circumstantial shit if you havent read it?

Because by skimming it it's apparent most if not all of that is just reacting to him posts, not actually coming up with a comprehensive case based on the body of work. I am on record somewhat as being more able to fathom and gel with cases that actually make some value statement to the overall play of the person being read. I can cite the relevant game where this happened if needed.

[innocentvillager]

It's kinda wrong by omission, if that's even a thing? The fact stated are true but it misses part of the picture. The thing about not having read all my stuff makes sense, and though I thought it might have been suspect the fact you called yourself on it so quickly makes me think it's not really indicative, just a thing that happened, though I'm concerned about you missing that despite seeming caught up.

when i say i skimmed the 25 pages of boon flailing and you guys grilled him, i really mean i skimmed it

i wasn't exactly trying to sort every single post moreso than to just figure out what was going on