Open 88 - Polygamist Mafia (Game Over) before 650

[Adel]

Adel:

Why would scum group two newbies together for the claimed lover pair? Wouldn't it make much more sense for one experienced player to be paired with on inexperienced player?

It might, it might not. They set up the newbie excuse on those 2 and the experienced pair fends off attacks like none other.

right, and where exactly are those posts that "fends off attacks like none other"?

[StrangerCoug]

Adel: Adel hasn't really done anything scummy. Its Jebus with her plan of "random vote excluding me or my partner". And that's in my opinion crazy scummy. The chat log has confused me but it definately hasn't cleared him.

If you don't think Adel is scummy, then why are you voting him?

FoS: Empking

[Jahudo]

Really now, Jahudo? Why did I need to restate the reasons for the wagon? It had been said quite clearly before.

If you agree with those reasons exactly then why not say it just for clarification? Because if you don't say why you believe something then, if there is a tomorrow, you could tell us you never believed particular reasons in the first place. That you liked the bandwagon because it pressured someone into revealing themselves, etc.

If Adel and I are scum then who are our partners? Of each lover pair there is at least one person voting for us. Explain that.

You've got a point. Scum can find reason to vote for other scum but at this point they would be looking for a way out. So EmpKing and maybe others would be unlikely, but not impossible, scum partners if Adel/Mana are scum.

[armlx]

right, and where exactly are those posts that "fends off attacks like none other"?

I doubt the experience pair has been under attack and needed to fend off them just yet.

[kloud1516]

I used Adel's voting post against armlx in post 192 to make it clear what I felt was Adel using the strawman fallacy for the second time since replacing into the game. That first paragraph right after the quote I believe explains that.

[Adel]

right, and where exactly are those posts that "fends off attacks like none other"?

I doubt the experience pair has been under attack and needed to fend off them just yet.

If I was scum, and got lynched, then this hypothetical experienced pair would also be lynched. You would think that would have defended me, or at least started a wagon against a different person by now, with deadline approaching.

If you haven't played mafia long enough yet to tell when a wagon is going to lead to a mis-lynch, take a close look at this one so you can remember it in the future.

[Adel]

Unless you were ready to lynch Jebus and 3fj before Abel replaced in

I was.

ah, so Armix is all about lynching newbie for making a mistake based off of inexperience, and keeping this day limited to one wagon. got it.

unvote, vote:armix

Ah, so Adel is all about lynching a player while once again strawmanning his case in order to justify the vote. Got it. That would be the second time Adel has employed fallacy-induced arguments/reasoning into the game.

vote: Adel

I am going to directly quote from my post 163:

Even if they were newbies, as I said before in post, a suspicious suggestion is still a suspicious suggestion, no matter if the person who suggested it decides to defend it. I think this holds true for a "raw newbie" suggesting a scummy plan as well, for they are just as likely to be scum as anyone else, and are therefore just as likely to make mistakes. Not all newbies are as oblivious as you seem to be attempting to portray them.

This still applies. Jebus and 3fj both agreed on a plan that was suspicious in itself, but with the paraphrased conversation you provided, you have just revealed that they had no intentions of it being a random vote, as Jebus intended on targeting someone (me) in particular while 3fj thought it best to vote someone else in order to avoid suspicion. I would like to note that even after saying this, 3fj still voted for me, which leads me to believe that they both intended on keeping their votes on me in the "random" Day 1 vote as shocking as that might be. This is scummy play, no matter how many in-game posts either of them have.

They did pick a player at random: you. They picked you before the game even started. You are correct that it is horrible play, which has been my point all along. Crap-logic and horrible play can be scum-tells, but it should be clear that in this case they are probably the result of inexperience.

Armix is not following up on any other suspects, so my post "so Armix is all about lynching newbie for making a mistake based off of inexperience, and keeping this day limited to one wagon" still stands. It is not a "strawman" rather it is a clear and concise description of what is happening.

[Xtoxm]

Vote Count

StrangerCoug (0)
Farside22 (0)
Citizen Karne (0)
Empking (1) Farside22
Goatrevolt (0)
Jahudo (0)
OpposedForce (0)
armlx (2) Adel, StrangerCoug
Caboose (1) Goatrevolt
Mana_Ku (0)
kloud1516 (1) Mana_Ku
Adel (6) armlx, Citizen Karne, Caboose, OpposedForce, Kloud1516, Empking

Not Voting (1) Jahudo

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

[Goatrevolt]

I think Adel makes a good point about nobody standing up to defend. I need to look through and see if this is actually the case, but if so, that's a fairly solid observation and would certainly suggest this being a mislynch.

[Adel]

I think Adel makes a good point about nobody standing up to defend. I need to look through and see if this is actually the case, but if so, that's a fairly solid observation and would certainly suggest this being a mislynch.

Thanks. Something else to consider: why did I wait this long to start a vigorous defense of myself?

[armlx]

Thanks. Something else to consider: why did I wait this long to start a vigorous defense of myself?

It's a trap? Is that your point?

[Adel]

Thanks. Something else to consider: why did I wait this long to start a vigorous defense of myself?

It's a trap? Is that your point?

rope-a-dope does work better in mafia than it works in boxing.

[Empking]

Adel: Adel hasn't really done anything scummy. Its Jebus with her plan of "random vote excluding me or my partner". And that's in my opinion crazy scummy. The chat log has confused me but it definately hasn't cleared him.

If you don't think Adel is scummy, then why are you voting him?

FoS: Empking

Because Jebus was scummy and Mana ku is scummy.

[farside22]

Adel could you do a vote chart for me please. I need to read through some things and a vote chart helps me.

[Mana_Ku]

@ Empking to which question are you refering? I've asked everyone to answer this question: If Adel and I are scum then who are our partners?
But again I'm ignored by most.

To you I've more questions. One was in that post (241).
Empking, a summary of every character is helpful, however I would like to hear what you thought of certain events. Espescially Llama's and OF's discussion. The one you replaced was in it and you just read it. Can you tell me what you thought about this discussion?

Are you saying that I'm scummy, because of the link? Besides how do you know that I'm not pro-town? If you can conclude that from one quote, I want you in the games I'm playing more often. The ability to see who isn't protown from one quote. Quite impressive (rolling eyes).

Also regarding post 239, explain what you meant with the points of armlx and Kloud. Tell me what you mean with the first sentence of the armlx case, why you wanted to mention the popcorning. Also have you ever heard from an IC or mod that tunnle vision is good? (a tad, you say? Look at all his posts)
From the Kloud point, I'd like to hear what you mean with the first sentence.

And you haven't even given any reasons why Jebus and I (except for the link) are scummy. Aren't you doing the same as Caboose?

Next would be again the discussion from Llama and OF. You think that OF and Jah are the most pro-town pair after your own. Then what do you think Llama's reasons were to begin a discussion with OF?

CK I was just shocked when I was looking for something. What did you mean with post 188!!!.

For now, I'm done as I need to do some research into this game. I hope I can see some answers

[Empking]

I don't know you're not pro-town, did I say you're definately not pro-town?

Personally, I'd say onde really terriable post is more useful than a bunch of slightly bad posts.

I felt I should mention it because I just read it andf because it shows Armix's pro-town actions. I don't remember saying that tunnlevision is good.

I thought Jebus's scumminess what with her plan didn't need an explanation. Its a very scummy plan. I'm not doing the same as Caboose because Caboose's opinions was I'll go with the majority.

I think Llama's reasons were that he thought OF was scummy.

[Mana_Ku]

You didn't say definitly, but from the looks of post 239 it looks like you do.
What do you mean with the one terrible post?
You didn't say tunnle vision is good, but a mod/IC who tunnle visions, while every mod/IC say in the newbie games say that tunnle vision is bad. Does that seems pro-town to you?
Besides you still haven't given explanation to each point of my previous post.

[armlx]

You didn't say tunnle vision is good, but a mod/IC who tunnle visions, while every mod/IC say in the newbie games say that tunnle vision is bad. Does that seems pro-town to you?

You can't dismiss a case as tunnel vision just because you say it is.

[Mana_Ku]

I'm not dismissing it. But now that you have reacted, do you agree with tunnle vision or not?

[armlx]

I'm not dismissing it. But now that you have reacted, do you agree with tunnle vision or not?

Tunnel vision is a bad thing. This is not tunnel vision, as you have actually done something scummy. Tunnel vision most often applies when a person thinks something that isn't a scum tell is, and attacks based on that and responses to that attack.

[Mana_Ku]

Now I'm interested in what I've done.

[armlx]

Now I'm interested in what I've done.

The whole case on you + Adel that I have stated before?

[Jahudo]

First

I find Armix responsible but I do agree with him.

Then

He seems a tad tunnle visioned but he looks pro-town to me.

And now

I don't remember saying that tunnlevision is good.

Are you saying that armix is pro-town, and armix is tunnel visioned, but tunnel vision isn’t pro-town? Doesn’t that undermine your agreement for the case you think armix is responsible for?

Also, since armix says he's more about Mana and Adel's case, how do you agree with him by saying Jebus is scummy but Adel isn't?

[armlx]

Are you saying that armix is pro-town, and armix is tunnel visioned, but tunnel vision isn’t pro-town?

I have a response to this after Emp says something.

[Adel]

Adel could you do a vote chart for me please. I need to read through some things and a vote chart helps me.

considering that I am still at lynch -1, and how much work those diagrams require, I am not inclined to make one at this time. I really hate it when I am almost done with one only to see that I have been lynched.