Open 88 - Polygamist Mafia (Game Over) before 650

[StrangerCoug]

And SC, you had some comment about Adel's post (289). Now that you've seen why we were asking this question, can you give an answer to it?

If Adel is scum, then I think one of his scumbuddies is the same guy that my vote's on—armlx.

[Jahudo]

If Adel is scum, then I think one of his scumbuddies is the same guy that my vote's on—armlx.

If that's the case then this whole thing was an attempt to distance from each other knowing that none can die while the other lives. So once they got to L-1 he did unvote but under this pretense of a diagram. I can't find any point where they showed hesitance in what they were doing though.

Also that brings back a question about Jebus and if this was part of a larger plan with his other scum pair. What would be the safe position for them to play if they knew Jebus would be wagoned? Could the ones who started the wagon have the confidence that they could redirect it before it goes to far?
-----------------------

I'm saying that you can be a tad tunnle visioned and still be pro-town.

Okay I think I wrongly connected aspects during his tunnel vision with things you found pro-town.

Adel: I don't see your point.

You said you agree with armix's case and that his case is now partly based on what Adel is saying, correct? You also stated that you found Jebus scummy but not so much with Adel, correct?

My question is: what is your opinion of armix's case that Adel is scummy, and does that fall in line or detract from the two of you agreeing on Jebus is scummy?

[Adel]

If Adel is scum, then I think one of his scumbuddies is the same guy that my vote's on—armlx.

If that's the case then this whole thing was an attempt to distance from each other knowing that none can die while the other lives. So once they got to L-1 he did unvote but under this pretense of a diagram. I can't find any point where they showed hesitance in what they were doing though.

Also that brings back a question about Jebus and if this was part of a larger plan with his other scum pair. What would be the safe position for them to play if they knew Jebus would be wagoned? Could the ones who started the wagon have the confidence that they could redirect it before it goes to far?

Any scum theory that requires Jebus to play well is incorrect.

There is nothing safe about leaving a scumbuddy at lynch -1. I very easily could have been hammered.

Farside asked for the diagram. I requested that players unvote while I worked on it, and kloud and armlx unvoted. If they were scum with me, wouldn't they have been the ones asking for a diagram?

And SC, you had some comment about Adel's post (289). Now that you've seen why we were asking this question, can you give an answer to it?

If Adel is scum, then I think one of his scumbuddies is the same guy that my vote's on—armlx.

is there anyone else I could be scum with?

[StrangerCoug]

I also believe Empking to be scum, but less so than armlx. Actually current thought, Adel, is that you're

not

scum. That's why I started my first answer with "if".

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: After "actually", put a comma and then the word "my".

[Xtoxm]

Vote Count

StrangerCoug (0)
Farside22 (0)
Citizen Karne (0)
Empking (2) Farside22, Adel
Goatrevolt (0)
Jahudo (0)
OpposedForce (0)
armlx (1) StrangerCoug
Caboose (1) Goatrevolt
Mana_Ku (0)
kloud1516 (1) Mana_Ku
Adel (4) Citizen Karne, Caboose, OpposedForce, Empking

Not Voting (3) Jahudo, armlx, Kloud

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

[Empking]

It was a silly discussion and should never have been started.

Yes I am

I mean. If you turn up town, I'll need to look back upon him.

I meant that if it wasn't for Armix I'd say Kloud was your scum buddy.

Caboose and Farside.

Caboose and Farside.

Personally I find that a perfectly good answer when asked asbout pie.

I gave a perfectly fine answer for your question. No it isn't pro-town, when did I say it was pro-town?

When I said one terriable post, I meant one terriable post in general.

Adel, I'd like an answer.

Mana ku: When have you seen a mod, mention in their game that tunnle vision is bad?

[Empking]

@ Empking to which question are you refering? I've asked everyone to answer this question: If Adel and I are scum then who are our partners?
But again I'm ignored by most.

To you I've more questions. One was in that post (241).

Empking, a summary of every character is helpful, however I would like to hear what you thought of certain events. Espescially Llama's and OF's discussion. The one you replaced was in it and you just read it. Can you tell me what you thought about this discussion?

Are you saying that I'm scummy, because of the link?

Besides how do you know that I'm not pro-town? If you can conclude that from one quote, I want you in the games I'm playing more often. The ability to see who isn't protown from one quote. Quite impressive (rolling eyes).

Also regarding post 239, explain what you meant with the points of armlx and Kloud.

Tell me what you mean with the first sentence of the armlx case

, why you wanted to mention the popcorning. Also have you ever heard from an IC or mod that tunnle vision is good? (a tad, you say? Look at all his posts)

From the Kloud point, I'd like to hear what you mean with the first sentence.

And you haven't even given any reasons why Jebus and I (except for the link) are scummy. Aren't you doing the same as Caboose?

Next would be again the discussion from Llama and OF. You think that OF and Jah are the most pro-town pair after your own. Then what do you think Llama's reasons were to begin a discussion with OF?

CK I was just shocked when I was looking for something. What did you mean with post 188!!!.

For now, I'm done as I need to do some research into this game. I hope I can see some answers

All the bold, you haven't explained or answered yet.

Next point, would be that you DO the same as Caboose. I believe that's what Adel wanted to say with his quotes used at post 293, but I believe he will tell you that himself.

In your player summary, you've only stated scummy at Adel en me. Who do you seems as scummiest after us? Besides you haven't answered 'If Adel and I are scum then who are our partners?'. There are more ppl who haven't done, however I'm really interested in what you have to say.

Also what I don't like is when ppl answer not straight forward. What I mean is: When someone asks you 'Do you like pie?' and you answer with 'I don't hate it.'. This is what you're doing at post 298. I asked you a question. Your answer to this question was: It doesn't show anti-town. But this wasn't the question. The question was: You didn't say tunnle vision is good, but a mod/IC who tunnle visions, while every mod/IC say in the newbie games say that tunnle vision is bad. Does that seems pro-town to you? Give this time an answer to this question.
(armlx, you don't have to give any comments about this question. I just want to hear his answer. It has now nothing to do with you)

And armlx, at post 273 you say something about a comment. Can we hear it now or does it still have to wait?

And SC, you had some comment about Adel's post (289). Now that you've seen why we were asking this question, can you give an answer to it?

Almost forgot to ask this. Empking to which post are you referring with the 'one terrible post?'

This is what that post was directed at.

[Empking]

My question is: what is your opinion of armix's case that Adel is scummy, and does that fall in line or detract from the two of you agreeing on Jebus is scummy?

Its good and falls in line. What it shows me is that Armix is better at hunting than me.

[Xtoxm]

OpposedForce has not picked up his prod. Guess i'll have to find another replacement.

[Adel]

Adel, I'd like an answer.

to what question?

[Empking]

oh shit, look at votes 238 and 239.

I find it odd that Adel would post her comments made and what the 2 people said (which what they said is incredibly scummy) but the fact she left those scummy comments in there where she could have made the whole thing up seems like WIFOM.

I think Adel's expectation was that we would see their suggestions and brush them off as newbies and give them a free pass. I don't see why summarizing some of a night conversation really means anything one way or another.

Anyway, I still need to reread the last few pages. My current top suspect is Adel, and the majority of my suspicion is based on the way she defended herself by strawmanning the nature of the attacks against her, and thus trying to make those attacks appear weaker than they are. I'll just stick with a

FoS Adel

for now until I look at a vote count.

two hours later:

Mana_ku: I really don't like the, I'll give you my link. It screams "look at me I'm pro-town" without actualoly being pro-town. Anoyingly, it'd be a waste to vote man_ku because if I want her lynch I should vote for Adel.

Adel: Adel hasn't really done anything scummy. Its Jebus with her plan of "random vote excluding me or my partner". And that's in my opinion crazy scummy. The chat log has confused me but it definately hasn't cleared him.

Strangercoug:m In both forms hasn't really done much. Couldn't call it lurking either.

Citizen Karne: In the case of Adel being town he'll look scummy (and I'll give him another lookover) but with the information that we have I think he's a tunnle vision town.

Armix: If Adel does turn up town we might need to look back on him. As I've got the page where he mentioned popcorning open, I think I should mention that. He seems a tad tunnle visioned but he looks pro-town to me.

Kloud: Its weird to think he's Armix's partner. I really don't like the way he unvoted when Adel came. This might be a player just trying to attack the newbies. Apart from that his posts seem good contents wise.

Opposedforce: His early posts seem to be just making mistakes or apolagising for mistakes. Despite that I don't think he's scum. He also proposed mass claim.

Jah: I really don't know what to say about him. When I was reading the latter pages I had forgotten about him. I don't think he's scum and he seems pro-town to me. After my own, I think this is the most pro-town pair.

Caboose: He (apart from in his chat anylisis) doesn't seem to have a mind of his own. Going as far as saying he'll just go with tyhe majority.

Farside: I feel like he's focused on Armix. I don't even think he's given anything to support his suspicions.

Vote: Adel

six hours later (meanwhile Empking made 8 other posts in other games)

That's L-1.

unvote, vote:Empking

What's your point?

[Adel]

1. You should've known that your vote would put me at lynch -1
2. The slight push your declared lover gave my wagon with 238 would encourage someone to hammer.
3. When you voted for me members from each other couple were already voting for me. Bussing under this setup is suicide.
4. You are clearly setting up kloud and armlx to take the fall when I am proven to be town.
5. Your claimed lover is serving as an echo chamber for reciting the points made against me and Jebus, but he has not voted for me. Pushing a wagon without committing to it is scummy.
6. I expect that after getting me lynched day 1 you expected to be able to push for armlx/kloud or farside/caboose mis-lynch on day 2.

[Empking]

Yes, L-1 isn't dangerous in this set up.

It was their to encourage people to hammer before hammering was possible?

Caboose hasn't voted for six days. Voting for your scum partner isn't suicide especially if your partners can use that as their only defense.

Why no mention of Karne.

He didn't want to accidently lynch you. I agree, very scummy.

Still no mention of Karne. Also, any proof for that?

[Adel]

Next time, please use the "quote" button and post again so that it is clear what each of your lines are in reply to.

Yes, L-1 isn't dangerous in this set up.

It was their to encourage people to hammer before hammering was possible?

The effect of his vote followed by your vote was to leave me at lynch -1 with a preponderance of voices calling me scummy and saying that I should be the day's lynch.

Caboose hasn't voted for six days. Voting for your scum partner isn't suicide especially if your partners can use that as their only defense.

Ah, so getting everyone to vote for me was a clever scum gambit, part of the plan those twin geniuses Jebus and 3fj developed before the game began.

Why no mention of Karne.

Why are you trying to deflect attention away from yourself? If there is something distinctly scummy about Karne that I don't see, please point it out. I can't be suspicious of everyone that is on my wagon: it has to include townies.

He didn't want to accidently lynch you. I agree, very scummy.

Who is "he"?

Still no mention of Karne. Also, any proof for that?

I don't understand what you mean by this.

[Adel]

Yes, L-1 isn't dangerous in this set up.

please tell me that this is a typo.

[Empking]

No it wasn't a typo.

I mrentioned Karne because I found him scummy and posted about him the same way I posted about Armix.

The "he" was my claimed lover.

It might not be you or your claimed lover's plan. It could also be from your other two lovers.

I mean. Their was still no mention of Kaine. and. Any proof to back up your claims.

[StrangerCoug]

Yes, L-1 isn't dangerous in this set up.

Voting for your scum partner isn't suicide especially if your partners can use that as their only defense.

Dude. Wake up. You should know by now that both of the above are false. The second one also appears to be a straw man.

Unvote: armlx
Vote: Empking

[Empking]

Please, how has L-1 been dangerous?

Considering that his scum partner voting for him has been his only defense (if he's scum) it isn't a straw man.

How is it a straw man?

[Adel]

you called both Karne and armlx townie in the post I quoted.

I find Armix responsible but I do agree with him.

Unvote

this post would be the difference between your attention towards armlx and your attention towards Karne.

Do you intentionally post in a manner that makes it difficult to place your posts in context?

He didn't want to accidently lynch you. I agree, very scummy.

by placing me at lynch -1 you made it very possible for someone else to accidentally lynch me.

[Adel]

Please, how has L-1 been dangerous?

Considering that his scum partner voting for him has been his only defense (if he's scum) it isn't a straw man.

How is it a straw man?

in a 12 player game with a rapid wagon, an unannounced lynch-1 vote makes it easy to accidentally hammer someone that is widely suspected of being scum.

After armlx warned that I was at lynch -1. 36 hours passed during which your lover could have voted for me, or any off the other players whose lover was voting for me could have hammered me. It wouldn't have been an especially scummy hammer either: the "everyone thought he was scum so I hammered" defense would have been pretty convincing.

[Empking]

You say that but you won't back up anything you say.

[Jahudo]

the "everyone thought he was scum so I hammered" defense would have been pretty convincing.

I agree and reinforce this concern with this quote.

Because those actions are easily the scummiest in the game by far, and 90% of the other actions in the game revolve around the results of this wagon?

Anyone could say that it was time to get the information from the results of this wagon. If it's a mis-lynch, the hammer has the support of this argument and can lose some suspicion.

[Adel]

Don't any of the other players in this game have anything to say about these recent developments?

I would really like those who are still voting for me to carefully read every post since I posted my diagram, and then to explain who they think I am scum with.

[StrangerCoug]

Please, how has L-1 been dangerous?

L-1 is always dangerous as far as I know, especially here. When someone dies, so does someone else. It pays to be on the cautious side here, you know.

How is it a straw man?

You replaced the word "bussing" with the phrase "voting for your scum partner". Yes, the latter can be argued as a dangerous move here as well, but you can random vote scum without bussing him or her, and pressure votes against scumbuddies as opposed to intentionally attempting to lynch them does not qualify as bussing in my book.