Newbie 655: Zeroville. (Game Over!)

JonMW · Post Post #275 (ISO) » Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:54 pm

Just in case someone asks me for a little more justification:

I know that I played the first day badly. I was top of the vote-list at one point. I'm still on just about everybody's scum-radar. My point is that I shouldn't be able to suddenly get out of my bad standings by suddenly growing a sense of confidence. Right now, getting close to me is

more

suspicious than a vote.
Incidentally, just because someone is an IC doesn't mean that they are always right, and they definitely can't be trusted. Remember how M4yhem and michel disagreed right at the start? Not to mention that either one of them could be scum.

I wonder if a better newbie game would be one with just newbies. Perhaps there could be one non-playing IC person assigned to the thread to make comments, maybe the mod could fill that role.
But if it's expected that the newbies should follow the lead of the ICs like sheep, then that trust can be very easily abused for the sake of winning the game.

afatchic · Post Post #276 (ISO) » Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:26 pm

I am not backpedaling. i just thought he may need a little bit of pressure put on him. and im not sure if votes are just as scummy than hammering. when you vote you are thinking he could be scum, or he needs pressure put on him to see how he will react. when you hammer you already no the outcome. you no your the deciding vote. and i just think that the hammerer should be briefly questioned after each lynch. and i don't honestly see how it can hurt the town, so what is the problem.

and i don't really like how the two IC's are gonna start trying to make me look bad because i asked what the town thinks about the hammer. thats a legitimate question, yet you see it as scummy because i asked that without having any scum evidence against him?

and i said that i thought you was pro-town because of the person you replaced, you can read my first post i believe about that. maybe i should have said i think your role is pro-town. i don't know how to word it right. however i am starting to wonder.

JonMW · Post Post #277 (ISO) » Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:40 pm

For the record, my suspicions are not actually motivated by populartajo's lynch-vote. Sure, it's another little point against him, but it's definitely not the main force behind my argument.

M4yhem · Post Post #278 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:10 am

afatchic- It's not the question that bothers me. I'm strongly in favour of asking questions. It's the fact that you seemed to back of rather quickly when populartajo defended himself. You even said you thought he was protown, which seems almost like you were trying to placate him. You're also changing your story quite quickly- in your last post you say hammering isn't suspicious and now you say it is.

I agree that people don't always vote someone with the intention of killing them but nontheless a vote is a lethal weapon and everyone on the lynch is accountable. Also, someone has to hammer or the game will stall.

Populartajo- I'm pressuring Jon because he's been nervous and difficult to understand all game. Plus, he was on the townie lynch yesterday.

Where is whereistony? He's pretty high on my suspect list at the moment.

I'm thinking we should play a game. It's called 'if I am a cop'. It goes like this- everyone (and I do mean everyone) posts a sentence saying who they would have investigated as a cop. If you're a townie, pick another player at random and say that you found them innocent. If you are the actual cop and you have an innocent, tell the truth about who you investigated.

The point of the game is to give the cop, if we have one, a safe way to post innocent results without the mafia knowing. If the cop dies, we can go back and look at what he (or she) posted and then we'll know which people are cleared.

I'll start: If I am the cop, I investigated Yuu and she is innocent.

Next person to post, carries on.

Yuu · Post Post #279 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:51 am

**Jon**
Why wold Populartajo try and 'make peace' with you if he was scum, what advantage do you think he could gain with that? Look better in town's eyes? But you said yourself you were on people's black lists yourself, why would he try to be friendly with someone like that? Of course we haven't had many posts til now, but the last comments about you have been some full of suspicions (M4yhem and SDK) . Populartajo was the only one to aid you - and I can assure you that counted as suspicion against him too.
But of course I see no reason to keep on thinking that now with our posts, obviously. I just wanted to know why you overreacted.

**M4yhem**, don't you think this game is dangerous too? If there's a cop and he ends up lynched today, that mafia could kill the innocent he named. And as people will name each other only on chance, they might up endind naming mafia as innocents - and that will prove to them who isn't cop. And knowing who isn't cop is just a step to knowing who, in fact, is. If that happens, your 'trap' will function perfectly, but do you think it's worth the risk? I mean, the cop is a town weapon. Revealing him to the mafia doesn't look like a good prospect.

M4yhem · Post Post #280 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:07 am

I think it's worth the risk. Consider what will happen if we don't do it and the cop gets killed; we won't know who he investigated and that loses the town valuable information.

Also, the cop will not be lynched today. If he is one vote away from lynch then he only needs to say 'I'm the cop' and he's safe, at least from us. It's better to be killed by the mafia than the town. It's true that the scum can work out who isn't a cop from their results, but I think it's worth the chance of having a confirmed innocent later on.

WhereIsTony · Post Post #281 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:13 am

M4yhem wrote:I think it's worth the risk. Consider what will happen if we don't do it and the cop gets killed; we won't know who he investigated and that loses the town valuable information.

Also, the cop will not be lynched today. If he is one vote away from lynch then he only needs to say 'I'm the cop' and he's safe, at least from us. It's better to be killed by the mafia than the town. It's true that the scum can work out who isn't a cop from their results, but I think it's worth the chance of having a confirmed innocent later on.

IF that were true than scum could say I am the cop to avoid a lynch, I suppose then the REAL cop could also claim but then its a word v. word. but then the mob would know who the cop is.

So the question is

Is it worth losing the cop to definitely out one scum member?

somedamnkid · Post Post #282 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:23 am

We also don't even know if there is a cop in the game.

M4yhem · Post Post #283 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:26 am

Yes, it is.

Once we have one the second is much easier to find and losing a member sets the scum back a few days.

It's true the scum can claim to be cop (they often do) but if they don't die for several nights questions will be raised. Also, they have to fake their results, which can be tricky. If they say their partner is innocent they are drawing dangerous links between the two of them; if they give us real innocents, they shoot themselves in the foot.

But yeah, it's true you can't always trust cop claims. Still, I'd hesitate before lnyching a claimed cop.

M4yhem · Post Post #284 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:27 am

Whoops. I meant to answer Tony's question there.

somedamnkid wrote:We also don't even know if there is a cop in the game.

This is true. I still think it's worth it, just in case.

populartajo · Post Post #285 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:43 am

At work right now,
Guys, stop the speculating of the cop. You are telling scum who isnt the cop.
Ill prepare a nice post later.
Cy.

afatchic · Post Post #286 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:20 am

M4yhem- i don't exactly see how i am backpedaling, but sure.

and i don't at all like the theory about the cop. power roles shouldn't be talked about like that. its anti-town. if you have a thought about it, keep it to yourself. now you have helped the mafia, since they no who they don't need to NK. with 7 alive, two mafia alive, that leaves 5 townies. given you are townie, now they only have 4 to have to choose from. and how will we know when the actual cop has posted? it will blend right in with the others won't it? if it doesn't, they get NK'd tonight.

VOTE M4yhem.

JonMW · Post Post #287 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:37 am

A game!

I'll

play your game, M4yhem.

If I was a cop, I would have investigated

populartajo

. He came up

guilty

.

Oh, wait.

I am a cop.

M4yhem, your actions right now have been extremely suspicious. I think that this technique of yours would only work if everyone played the game. If I was guaranteed another night of investigation, you'd be it.
Anyhow, your rules are incomplete. I can't very well say that I got an innocent result in anyone, now can I?

Yesterday, my play was flawed because I was trying too hard to survive. Now do you see why?

M4yhem · Post Post #288 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:09 pm

I assumed that if the cop got a guilty, he would be pressing that person hard. Unfortunately, you

were

going after populartajo pretty hard; I was just too blinded by that fact I thought you were scum to notice.

I agree the game needs everyone to do it to work. I said that in the post I suggested the game, actually.

And yes, you being a cop does explain some things. I'm willing to test you out, anyway.

Vote:Populartajo

You might still get another investigation. If we're lucky, the doc will protect you. I'm quite happy to be checked out; I've nothing whatsoever to hide.

Erg0 · Post Post #289 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:23 pm

Vote Count

populartajo 2 (JonMW, M4yhem)
WhereIsTony 1 (populartajo)
M4yhem 1 (afatchic)

Not Voting 3 (WhereIsTony, Yuu, somedamnkid)

Edit: 7 alive, 4 to lynch.

populartajo · Post Post #290 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:38 pm

Come on, Jon is obv lying. I have no idea why Mayhem is buying his claim so easily.
1. Notice his first post of the day, why would he suspect both me and Mayhem EQUALLY? Did he also investigate Mayhem?
2. His D1 play isnt a cop play. His posterior excuse that he was playing badly so that he could survive the day is BS.
3. His play from D1 greatly differs from his play right now. Notice how he asks Mayhem for support on early stages of the game and now he doesnt hesitate to jump against him.
Now lynch this scumbag, please.

Unvote Vote:JonMW

afatchic · Post Post #291 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:46 pm

Pop-why would he lie? if he is lying he would have to be scum. so if we lynch you tonight and you come up townie, then we lynch scum tomorrow. so if you are townie as you seem to claim then you shouldn't be worried about yourself, but instead to get a town win. so take one for the team if you are town.

UNVOTE M4yhem, VOTE: Populartajo

afatchic · Post Post #292 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:47 pm

my vote just put him at L-1. so try to defend yourself.

populartajo · Post Post #293 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:49 pm

You dissapoint me guys. Im your DOCOTOR. Unvote, RIGHT NOW.
Now lynch that scum, PLEASE.

afatchic · Post Post #294 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:06 pm

now we have a cop claim and doctor claim. so lets look at this...

if Jon is telling the truth and he is cop then pop is most likely scum, so if we follow through with it we lynch scum and probably lose cop at night unless real doctor saves him.

however if pop is telling the truth and he is doc and jon is scum and we follow through with lynch we lost townie doc and then lose another townie tonight before we lynch scum tomorrow and will be highly outnumbered.

now if jon is telling the truth and we decide to switch it around and lynch him then we lose a cop then another townie tonight before lynching a scum tomorrow, and yet again we are at a big disadvantage.

if pop is telling the truth and we decide to lynch jon then we get to lynch scum and save our doctor, who will be killed at night though.

so who do yall believe? personally i would rather lynch a possible doctor instead of a possible cop. so my vote stays.

WhereIsTony · Post Post #295 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:31 pm

Right now we are 5-2

scenario #1

Jon is cop we lynch pop and he is scum, the doctor would know to protect jon, but the scum would likely attack elsewhere.

we are 4-1 start of day 3.

Scenario #2

Jon is lying pop is the doc, he is killed, we come in at 3-2 tomorrow but certainly lynch jon

We are then 2-1 at the start of day 4

populartajo · Post Post #296 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:51 pm

well obv the hammer is obv scum so Im not worried in the unvoting thing.
What are you guys talking about? If we lynch Jon today we nail one scum, they kill me tonight (thankx for that) and we come up tomorrow with the same 4-1 situation and a possible cop hidden.
What Im trying to stop is a possible Lylo situation if you lynch me today when you have no clues in who is Jon's partner. Nobody is even talking about that.
And you cant suppose the doctor would be able to protect Jon the cop becuase IM YOUR DOCTOR and HE'S SCUM.
This isnt too hard.

JonMW · Post Post #297 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:54 pm

Now that I've set the ball rolling, I'm content just to sit and watch the storm. To back up my argument, I'll just give my (meager) reasons why I investigated popular. It's written in my mindset at the end of Day 1.
1. The same reasoning as I gave earlier - he's IC, and therefore more dangerous. Need to check him.
2. (just another version of reason #1) Taking up michel's place, who has proven his ability to avoid suspicion. Can't rely on anyone else spotting him if he

is

scum.
3. michel's ever-so-slightly more suspicious than M4yhem. Someone else suspected him, can't remember who right now. Written down somewhere.

Next, there's Tony. Why not investigate him? Frankly, it's because he's #2, most likely to be lynched on Day 2. If I investigate him and he comes up innocent, I doubt I'll be able to save him. If I try, I'll put myself in a bad spot and an investigation is as good as wasted.

Apart from that.... nobody else really stood out to me.

Also: If we really do (still) have a doctor, then we are guaranteed to have a mafia roleblocker. So, at most, I have a 50% chance of getting another investigation tonight - that's if popular here is a roleblocker.
But, when you count up everything that could go wrong for me at this point:
1. No doctor
2. Townies lynch me today
3. The roleblocker is still alive after the lynch

Then my chances of surviving are pretty low, and my chances of getting another investigation are about half that.
Strangely enough, I find the number-crunching to be a lot more comforting than the tangled web of lies that we had yesterday.

populartajo · Post Post #298 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:01 pm

JonMW wrote:Now that I've set the ball rolling, I'm content just to sit and watch the storm. To back up my argument, I'll just give my (meager) reasons why I investigated popular. It's written in my mindset at the end of Day 1.
1. The same reasoning as I gave earlier - he's IC, and therefore more dangerous. Need to check him.
2. (just another version of reason #1) Taking up michel's place, who has proven his ability to avoid suspicion. Can't rely on anyone else spotting him if he
is
scum.
3. michel's ever-so-slightly more suspicious than M4yhem. Someone else suspected him, can't remember who right now. Written down somewhere.

Next, there's Tony. Why not investigate him? Frankly, it's because he's #2, most likely to be lynched on Day 2. If I investigate him and he comes up innocent, I doubt I'll be able to save him. If I try, I'll put myself in a bad spot and an investigation is as good as wasted.

Apart from that.... nobody else really stood out to me.

Also: If we really do (still) have a doctor, then we are guaranteed to have a mafia roleblocker. So, at most, I have a 50% chance of getting another investigation tonight - that's if popular here is a roleblocker.
But, when you count up everything that could go wrong for me at this point:
1. No doctor
2. Townies lynch me today
3. The roleblocker is still alive after the lynch

Then my chances of surviving are pretty low, and my chances of getting another investigation are about half that.
Strangely enough, I find the number-crunching to be a lot more comforting than the tangled web of lies that we had yesterday.

Lies!
1. Why did you suspect both Mayhem and me in the beginning of the day? This doesnt make sense as a cop. Why didnt you "push" my lynch from the beginning?
2. Are you a newbie? Did you fake your newbiness at D1?
3. Why are you justifying why you didnt choose Tony? Nobody asked. You know? Only scum have thought in what people could o ask.
4. And thanks for pointing that, picking me becuase Im an IC and letting Tony off the hook even though the lynch result showed him as possible scum is really not a cop play. Maybe you didnt investigate him becuase hes your scumpartner?
Guys? Come on.

populartajo · Post Post #299 (ISO) » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:04 pm

Also, Im fine with my lynch if thats the only way we can kill this scumbag. Just remember tomorrow we'll be at Lylo with not enough information for lynching right. So, Id suggest rereading Jon and myself thinking if he could be the cop and me the doctor. We arent in deadline.