Sunny 2: Rules of Im-peachment - Over!

[Pink Ball]

What gave you that impression?

You had a pool of three scum, but said that you were confident that at least one was scum. I might have misinterpreted you though. I thought you were talking about your pool in general. Was Spring the reason that you were confident in one scum?

After that, I said that I wanted y'all to tell me who you thought I was wrong in my tiers, and said that I thought it was Noraa and SPF, so yes, Spring is the reason I'm confident in one scum.

[Pink Ball]

Check out S_S for me thanks. I haven't been wrong on this read and I'm pretty sure he's a wolf again

Ah jeez S_S has been a hot topic on our team. xtoxm agrees with you

[Jingle]

snip

1. Early days PB didn't seem to have much paranoia and was a lot more sitting-on-the-sidelines than I'm used to. There wasn't anything particularly damning I can point to, but he had an overall sense of wrongness to him that made me think scum. My read started shifting around the time he clarified that he thought I was memeing on the scumread, and without looking back to pull specific examples it was basically that the specific questions he was asking looked like they were designed to dig into peoples motivations and an overall agreement with the conclusions he was coming to. His gotcha moment with Noraa is a slight red flag (generally I find scum more likely to try to push people into logical corners like that than town) but I like his readslist and the good outweighs the bad.

2. Ime, people who repetitively call someone scum without trying to convince anyone they're right are more likely scum than not. I don't really have enough experience with Noraa personally to say whether she breaks that mold or not.

3. MWB -> Nancy hardtownreads Noraa therefore Noraa is likely town regardless of Nancy's alignment.
PB -> Clidd hardtownreads MWB therefor MWB is likely town regardless of clidd's alignment.

Noraa took exception to only one of these behaviors.

4. MWB's entrance was town, and everything he's done since has read as genuine solving to me. Given that Dann's the only one on my team that has weighed in on this game atp, that I think my teammates are all better at the actually making reads part of the game, and that he agrees with me, that leads me to a pretty high level of confidence in that being a correct read. I guess I can poke Dann to try to get a more in depth set of reasoning from him, but I don't really see that as necessary at the moment.

[SirCakez]

I am liking Morning Tweet's posting a good amount. into the town pile she goes. my teammates also think she is town.

i got 2 of my teammates (petapan & hercule) to ISO gypx for me, and they both came out of it agreeing that he's a slot that warrants more pressure/pushes. petapan thought that he was living up to his scum meta by not appearing to actually gamesolve & by going through the motions

noting this as a reason to keep on Gypyx

it's interesting to me that gyp is essentially LHF, but that there has been a fairly significant absence of pressure on him. i would almost expect a player like gypx to face a lot more pressure & opportunism from the scum team if he was town

unless there's some kind of meta reason why scum might be reluctant to go after him

*tea sip*

*checks wagon on me*

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

yeah idk man, being the second largest wagon at that time seems like low pressure to me

there's like two votes on you. this is not very good reasoning.

It's very amusing to hear that kind of argument since you couldn't get further from my personality if you tried. Anyway it's not like I'm going to be the day 1 fade. I can care less if you TR me or have me at null branch off me to more important matters unless you really find this so pressing.

really hate this post

I have feeling more confident in general lately
The shadow cabal flows through me

are you interning for cabd or something?

he is the darkness within me

No, it's not, because hand-waving me does nothing for me. You haven't interacted straight with me once and you're the slot im most interested in looking at by far.

You also bother to make Jingle your strongest SR, but you defer to Kanna(?) to get a read on me -- why? I have similar reasons to Jingle for suspecting you.

and you haven't said anything other than you expect better from him but that constitutes a full SR. Why are you treating me differently?

Do I seriously have to spell this out?
I do think town!you could have a read this terrible on me and legitimately think its gold for some reason or another.
I don't believe the same for Jingle.

really don't think town Noraa believe this

1004 is kinda scummy

we should kill this with fire

am i wrong though?

[Cheetory6]

Give me a player and I'll give you a cliff of my notes and an iso if desired.

Check out S_S for me thanks. I haven't been wrong on this read and I'm pretty sure he's a wolf again

yay it's a small ISO, I'm not really sure how useful I'll be with him when his content level is so.. uh.. limited? but I'll do my best.

A second set of eyes on Pink Ball would probably be most helpful for me.

do you TR Maria here now?

I'd say my lazyread on her is still town, but I'm kind of weirdly at a point where I don't really care what Maria's alignment is. Lol.

Noraa took exception to only one of these behaviors.

So when I was reading your ISO, I genuinely thought that there was dissonance for that in terms of your read, but when reading Pink Ball's ISO I kind of understood that you may have meant this.

However! When rereading the post I noticed that the bottom of your post includes this bit:

And also sheeping reads on Maria herself.

Can you walk me through how her sheep on Maria is also the same situation and not general sheeping?

1. Early days PB didn't seem to have much paranoia and was a lot more sitting-on-the-sidelines than I'm used to. There wasn't anything particularly damning I can point to, but he had an overall sense of wrongness to him that made me think scum. My read started shifting around the time he clarified that he thought I was memeing on the scumread, and without looking back to pull specific examples it was basically that the specific questions he was asking looked like they were designed to dig into peoples motivations and an overall agreement with the conclusions he was coming to. His gotcha moment with Noraa is a slight red flag (generally I find scum more likely to try to push people into logical corners like that than town) but I like his readslist and the good outweighs the bad.

Can you also take a look at Pink Ball's vote on Spring/the subsequent holding of a case and talk about what you think about it?

[SirCakez]

I am disliking Pooky's entrance here even if you completely separate his wonky push on me
my teammates also think Pink Ball is obvious town btw and I 75% agree

hey all, sorry for the recent inactivity, i'll be able to catchup soon

no i'm not pulling a Silent Star 3 i swear, got actual life issues lol

pedit : that ain't my scum meta lol

This feels like a town post.

I disagree its null at best

im comfortable calling cake scum at this point. wtf is with all the wagon hopping.

PRAISE JEEBUS

pooky ur gonna go into the scumbin if you sheep this literally proven to be a lie Noraa post

Far too many people think a couple games with me is enough to read me but that's incorrect.
Theres two types of people. The type that get it instantly and the type that never get it.
I haven't seen an in between before.
You always think scum!me is town!me.
maybe there's something wrong with the way you're reading me or maybe I'm just giving you a pass for nothing and you're scum here. either way, I don't want to engage you and you shouldn't be trying to sort me day 1 when everyone's calling me scum to begin with.

if you are town here stop with the OMGUS flaily crap and show me some of your town side
actually look for scum instead of repeating "jingle and co dont know how to read me therefore they are scum" over and over
i am literally extending an olive branch here

I keep reading cakez comments that feel like they r just echoing somebody else in the thread and agreeing with them - it's like he's a mirror and not actually pushing something that he's thinking about.

scum have used this exact logic to push me before

Hopkirk told me he's less confident about his reads on Morning Tweet and Jake and to defer to Hectic. Hectic liked what Morning's doing in 873 and 904. She knows Murder is good at reading Noraa, and knows Pooky is good at reading Kanna, so the questions are meaningful to him. Hectic reckons based on 656 if Nora is scum, one of the scum would be one of Jake or Jingle because scum tend to be hyper aware of their partner, so she could mistake people commenting on Jake as commenting on Jingle, but it's unlikely she would make the same mistake if Jake is scum and Jingle is town. I understood what he meant about being hyper aware but I didn't get how that affects the likelihood of making mistakes. In this scenario Hectic showed a preference to Jingle being town because 865 and 877 showed he didn't care about rubbing people the wrong way and openly admitted to that, which scum would be more interested in avoiding. I didn't like Jingle's interaction with MWB comparing my wagon with Nora's in 883 and whether that was framed a dichotomy of two choices when I think there should be more options for wagons on the table. Also I'm confused how Jingle came around to a PB townread. They don't explain much here but I assume it's because of PB's support on Nora's wagon? I don't follow the logic of how that led to that particular townread. For Nora's vote on Jingle, I have no idea whether Jingle is a good player and whether they are playing below their standards? Didn't see this was an OMGUS until Cakez pointed that out - but is the OMGUS here alignment indicative for Nora? I wouldn't know but don't get the impression OMGUS would be AI is based on how hard Nora flip flop between their town/scum reads?

OH god wtf is this. Hectic please send help asap if ur buddy Zaidan here is actually town. this paragraph be dumpster fire :/

Hey Nora, Hectic heard your pleas. He has told me something along the line that you're not trying to be too fluffy, sunshine and rainbows early on and its town indicative. He's reluctant to push the idea angry = town for you because he reckon you know that and could fake it although he doesn't really think you're faking it so far in this game. Make of that what you will. But I don't think Hectic's read is really important here because it doesn't sound very logical (because I personally think you have been quite fluffy/sunshine/rainbow in your approach) not to mention what he said hasn't really influenced my thought process. My personal read on you is townie for different reasons which I've given, though you may not be convinced by it becayse I'm trying to work with what I have having played a bunch of social deduction games in real life compared to forum.

For what MWB said about these arguments being weak for Hectic/Hopkirk being my teammates, I did leave out their reads that weren't contextual to the recent convo/developments at the time because my post was already getting bloated. I will look to talk about them over the rest of today. If MWB meant the points I took from them that I raised on an individual by individual basis, that was literally all I have to work with. If this is 'weak' or if people expected more I'm sorry. I'm trying but this is literally what my team has given me, and I've tweaked everything a bit because apparently we're not allowed to directly quote, but I think I've done alright in getting across the original spirit of what Hectic/Hopkirk were intending so that shouldn't be the issue.

Hectic knows Noraa pretty well so I am inclined to listen to hi mhere

[Jingle]

wrt my Gypyx trajectory, the answer is fuck if I know. I've been kind of ignoring the slot because there's some really angleshooty logic I don't want to taint the thread with because it would be playing against the spirit of the game to use it.

I only keep really track of individual player trajectories if two criteria are met, though. 1) I'm scum and 2) I think I know everyone in the game well enough to predict how they'll react to my manipulations. I haven't been in a place to do that since rolecall (where Maria was my partner and the gamewin was pretty much a foregone conclusion by the time I'd replaced in) or Fogport (where the player list was pretty much a who's who of people I played with frequently back then).

[MariaR]

@Cheet

Pink ball has been one of my messier pages on notes, but I've recently moved him to town with the angle he's taken on spring. It seems like quite an odd and simply not needed thing to do as a wolf here. His longer posts when he fleshes things out more is probably the best way you're going to get a read on Pink ball. There is one other manner but I simply don't want to go down that route and Pink himself probably knows why.

When I've been looking at his progression and marking down a few posts of interest like 528/750/1189 and look at his early game you can see an incline on how much he tries and is solving in his own manner. I think he's town here.

That's the cliffs of my notes sorry if they were too short. Paraphrasing is a bore

[Something_Smart]

Check out S_S for me thanks. I haven't been wrong on this read and I'm pretty sure he's a wolf again

Why?

[midwaybear]

Check out S_S for me thanks. I haven't been wrong on this read and I'm pretty sure he's a wolf again

Why?

Oh no

[SirCakez]

Currently what I think is that jingle thinks I'm a pr and that's why he's pushing me.

Right, because nothing's easier to mis-exe than a PR.

I think he said to stop crumbing because that's a townie thing to say.
But the fact that he then goes after someone that he apparently thinks crumbed is just weird?

You know, I actually vibe with this reasoning. I would like to see Jingle address this.

why is every post you make a snipey one-liner? :3

Because concision is a virtue.

S_S is making a lot of nothingburger posts like these
where is the content S_S?

^If this style of post is better let me know if I'm doing it right. Some days I feel like I have to mega post and I can't make time for forum throughout the day until the evenings and there's too much content to catch up on, but I will do these sorts of focused quotation posts when I can.

it's better then what you were doing before

Cake and Maria are scum together

VOTE: Cake

y tho?

think i am townleaning morning a bit more strongly. this noraa attack was pretty bold and bold!morning=town!morning to me

I think I agree w/this

Cake and Maria are scum together

VOTE: Cake

FLAREON FRIEND ROLLED TOWN REJOICE ~!!!!!

this seems faked

Speaking of, could someone boil the case on Zaiden down for me? The only thing I can remember about it without looking back to check is a "He was coached" argument that I thought was inherently silly because I don't see Hectic as the type of person to recruit someone for Team Mafia to be a puppet. Hectic is way more about having a good time with fun people than that, and even if he wasn't I don't think he has the kind of ego to think "My best chances of winning is to be the only one playing." I could maybe see that type of teambuilding coming from RC or Koba, but even with someone that confident in their own skills I think they'd be more likely to recruit people they saw as being on a high level of initial play and also capable of taking direction well.

if Zaiden is indeed scum it is definitely with Jingle I think

Please vote cake, don't make me come in here and post any reasoning whatsoever cuz I'll do it.

I feel like you can ask Spring about things related to your reasoning without casing her in a way that would be a lot more productive than this.
Like, you've already put Spring under a microscope by voting for her and telling her you have a huge case on her.
Wouldn't it have been better to have not said anything about your read to see what happens
or to be pressuring them at this point because they're already going to be being careful?

also yeah, i wasn’t sure how I was supposed to respond to you with this, pink ball, but it’ll be a lot more productive if you could just engage with me. i am town and if you’re town, this would be very beneficial to you !

I don’t believe there’s a reason you can’t reconsider me either

It would be more productive if you focused in the game instead of 1 out of 17 players stating a scumread on you

townpost

Eh. A lot of Zaiden's posts have just made my eyes gloss over and not acknowledging that doesn't lead to him addressing that issue. It doesn't mean that he's wrong or that he's bad or that he's lesser, but it does give him an indication that trying to format his posts differently might lead to more effective communication.

I agree. But despite that, we still owe him the effort of trying to parse what he's saying.

sure but also what are your reads tho?

Check out S_S for me thanks. I haven't been wrong on this read and I'm pretty sure he's a wolf again

Ah jeez S_S has been a hot topic on our team. xtoxm agrees with you

ok S_S is officially in the scum pile thx

I think my Zaiden townread is slipping.

[Cheetory6]

if Zaiden is indeed scum it is definitely with Jingle I think

hell yeah

[MariaR]

Cakez: Maria your posts suck

Also Cakez: Maria I agree with all your scumreads!
pedit: P R E A C H

[SirCakez]

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

[SirCakez]

Cakez: Maria your posts suck

Also Cakez: Maria I agree with all your scumreads!
pedit: P R E A C H

wat

[MariaR]

Check out S_S for me thanks. I haven't been wrong on this read and I'm pretty sure he's a wolf again

Why?

Ask me next day phase I'm focusing on my stronger scumreads first.

[SirCakez]

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

oops I put spring breeze in two places
I think I will call them nulltown for now

[MariaR]

Nothing Cakez please carry on your posts are just amusing to me and I'm enjoying them that's all.

[Something_Smart]

sure but also what are your reads tho?

Noraa town, Zaiden town, Cheet town, Jake maybe town, Cakez maybe town, Murdercat maybe town.

[Cheetory6]

Can you walk me through how her sheep on Maria is also the same situation and not general sheeping?

this may be a slip by jingle btw for anyone who cares
god im so HYPE

[Something_Smart]

S_S is making a lot of nothingburger posts like these

Is this related to your read on me?

[SirCakez]

sure but also what are your reads tho?

Noraa town, Zaiden town, Cheet town, Jake maybe town, Cakez maybe town, Murdercat maybe town.

Ur missing a very important type of read here

[SirCakez]

S_S is making a lot of nothingburger posts like these

Is this related to your read on me?

Yes ofc

[Something_Smart]

Haven't you played with me recently? I don't post more content as town than as scum.

[SirCakez]

Ok I'm not using meta here