Open 804: Popcorn Mafia Redux [Game Over!]

[Imperium]

I think she is way too brazen to be scum here

I got the impression Mush was fanning the flames of your 1v1 with Tammy.

Hmm. I'll go back and read that tomorrow. I get pretty focused when I'm frustrated.

[unwnd]

Cakez I feel like the more you convince yourself you're right on Imperium the more it would play into their hand. Like, you're afraid if you're not the one to catch Imperium no one will. I townread you for that amongst other things, but at some point if Imperium is just bigbadscum then other mates would be paying closer attention if they felt Imperium was in trouble, as I'm certain the gun has been waved over their head.

This doesn't absolve anything, but I do think right now they're probably doing other things.

[unwnd]

I find myself doing that whole 'observant sidelining' thing I kinda get annoyed at myself for doing...

[Imperium]

Pew pew Dunn tbh

Why?

https://youtu.be/991UM2-Fww0?t=10

I get that but can you tell me why that's your opinion?

I ask because I'm wondering what you're seeing that I'm not.

[Imperium]

I find myself doing that whole 'observant sidelining' thing I kinda get annoyed at myself for doing...

I find myself doing that hyper posting thing that I get annoyed at myself for doing...

[SirCakez]

I think she is way too brazen to be scum here

I got the impression Mush was fanning the flames of your 1v1 with Tammy.

I think Mush has her own issues with me unrelated to the Imperium stuff

[unwnd]

At first I thought you were joking then I saw 162 posts

What's happened old man

[SirCakez]

Cakez I feel like the more you convince yourself you're right on Imperium the more it would play into their hand. Like, you're afraid if you're not the one to catch Imperium no one will. I townread you for that amongst other things, but at some point if Imperium is just bigbadscum then other mates would be paying closer attention if they felt Imperium was in trouble, as I'm certain the gun has been waved over their head.

This doesn't absolve anything, but I do think right now they're probably doing other things.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here
I think right now if Imp is scum here they are very worries about me mainly because the setup empowers me even if no one else believes my read

[SirCakez]

And for that matter I don't think anyone else is even close to SRing Imperium because they are good at always being townread
But I saw them really playing up that stuff early on and that's what triggered my SR before it kept strengthening for other reasons

[ScrewTheTells]

From more likely town to more likely scum:

SirCakez
RLotus
Dunnstral
unwnd
Duchess
WhemeStar
Rockhopper
Imperium
MUSHSHAGANA
Not_Mafia
Norfolk Boy1

Note: a lot of things could swing wildly if conditions change. For example, Imperium and Cakez could switch spots depending on Norfolk's alignment.

MUSH is less scummy since my last post. Mostly due to the sheer effort that writing those walls would take...

MUSHSHAGANA, do you have any games you've played where you're scum? (others feel free to link me games if MUSH doesn't answer this, I don't know a fast way to search for this)

The Imperium-SirCakez war seems genuinely heated. I think they're on different teams (leaning scum on imperium for previous reasons), or they're just REALLY emotionally tunnel-visioned if they're both town. I hope it's not the latter. If you're town and you're reading this, take a deep breath lol. It'll be for the better.

[WhemeStar]

Dunn read list is bad

Why?

Is everyone in the middle null?

[Dunnstral]

Dunn read list is bad

Why?

Is everyone in the middle null?

No

Near the top is townleans, near the bottom is scumleans

[WhemeStar]

Dunn read list is bad

Why?

Is everyone in the middle null?

No

Near the top is townleans, near the bottom is scumleans

Why do you scumlean notmafia? I would ask the same of rockhopper(thats the person that stood out to me) but you said they should be more null already.

[Imperium]

I liked a couple Cakez posts last night, and as we were laying down for bed last night Nacho said he thought cakez might be town after all, and my gut in liking some of his posts is at odds with my brain and the way he's been interacting with me and norfolk.

Cakez - If you are town here, you are super misreading me, misinterpreting and misrepresenting my posts. Misinterpreting me is one thing, but the misrepresentation feels purposeful and it feels like you're throwing the kitchen sink of misreps at me. So, like yesterday when I simplified and clarified the position I took earlier about the people reading norfolk, you called it a backpedal and lie, except I literally just simplified what I had previously stated. I didn't change any position, and it felt like even after pointing that out, you just decided to move the goal posts on me instead of recognizing that you misread or misinterpreted. And that feels scummy to me and completely unlike any way you've ever interacted with me in a game. It feels like what you were doing with Battle Mage in xeno when you were scum.

I literally turned to nacho several times yesterday and asked him if I was the crazy one because I don't think my position and points are that difficult to understand. I do not understand how if you are actually reading my posts in good faith that you are coming to the conclusions you are. I don't care if you suspect me; well I mean I don't particularly like being suspected when I'm town but it goes with the game, but I don't like when it feels super purposeful and it feels that way here. And not gonna lie, there's a part of me that thinks you're doing this to interfere with any influence we might have this game.

This is a reach out. It's not the greatest of reach outs because I don't like feeling misrepresented and then attacked for those misrepresentations nor do I trust your intentions and I'm begrudgingly admitting that even with that you might be town based on a few posts I have liked. But if those few posts are correct and were are both town, this game has a chance to get fucked sideways, and I don't want that. So, if you are town, please consider that you've completely misunderstood me.

Luckily I'm pretty sure town!Cakez is the only person in this playerlist bad enough to shoot us and I'm not yet entirely convinced town!Cakez is a thing.

Also c'mon I know you're above insulting me like this as town
Not good AtE

This is just a little example. This is not AtE, this is not even AtE's little brother. This is nacho trolling you. Even if it isn't him trolling you it's still not AtE.

But why would you think either of us would be above insulting you as town. I mean nacho would probably troll you and say this as scum or town, so it's not really all that alignment indicative for him. But if you thought this was me, why would you think it's more likely to come from scum? That makes absolutely no sense at all. I don't like actual insults and I don't like seeing people insulted, but I'm not perfect and when I get frustrated with people in a mafia game I do sometimes say things out of frustration that aren't very nice, and it's almost always when I'm town. I don't get frustrated in the same way as scum unless I feel personally attacked.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here
I think right now if Imp is scum here they are very worries about me mainly because the setup empowers me even if no one else believes my read

This is one of the posts that I gut liked you for, but woah are you soooooo not understanding anything about me at all. You clearly don't understand my scum game or how I think or feel about scum. I hate playing scum with a passion but I don't get super worried as scum, nor would I be worried about you. That is not a dig at you, I just wouldn't be worried. Even if you had the gun and were going to shoot me, I still wouldn't be worried.

In a world where I'm scum here, I decided to give the gun to the hydra who I believe reads me best in the game. This is an objective truth, and especially in this playerlist. Brain knows that I have respect for his ability to read me; I've talked about it before. I think notscience is also good at reading me, but I think that notty is probably going to be a little paranoid or less certain about reading friends this moment due to tenet and the college normal. So, if I'm scum, I agreed to give the gun to the people I think can read me the best and who is going into this game with probably some hesitation on town reading me in the first place, which means I've already gone into the game knowing that I could end up getting shot first if I'm unable to fool them. So, in this world, you don't concern me at all as I've already made contingency plans for going out first. In this world I've decided to make associatives to fuck with the shots that come after. I, in fact, expect to go out first in every scum game I play because I feel and have always felt super naked and obvious as scum.

In neither that make believe world or this real one am I concerned about you shooting me. You don't have a hero solve, you're just wrong.

[WhemeStar]

Imperium can I be your sheep

[RLotus]

She didn't mention that post, so you are pushing me on my original thoughts, correct?

You said this was a read "on the back of mush". Now you are doubling back and claiming it's still scummy that we both scumread him despite having different reasons, all while claiming that I am piggybacking people's reads without contributing anything of my own? It's like Imperium said, you can't have your cake and eat it too. There are so many logical holes in your read of me that I struggle to see it coming from an honest approach to the game, and rather from a tactical positioning against a potential town leader.

My point isn't that you can't make up generic reads about the people you supposedly think are scummy, because that is what I am saying you are doing. Same thing you did with WhemeStar and Norfolk. You saw that other people are scum reading them, add in your fluff, and frame it as your original thought (I previously said this is what you are doing). That is what is scummy.

The reason I am falling deeper and deeper in the Duchess is scum hole is because you are being disingenuous with your responses to me. Instead of engaging with the core of my arguments against you, you are focusing on finding "loopholes" or verbal trip ups in my case against you. For example, why is it that every scum read you give comes directly after someone else gives a read of that person? Can you expand on your reads more so that they don't seem like half hearted one liners with the purpose of piling onto someone else's read?

[Imperium]

From more likely town to more likely scum:

SirCakez
RLotus
Dunnstral
unwnd
Duchess
WhemeStar
Rockhopper
Imperium
MUSHSHAGANA
Not_Mafia
Norfolk Boy1

Note: a lot of things could swing wildly if conditions change. For example, Imperium and Cakez could switch spots depending on Norfolk's alignment.

MUSH is less scummy since my last post. Mostly due to the sheer effort that writing those walls would take...

MUSHSHAGANA, do you have any games you've played where you're scum? (others feel free to link me games if MUSH doesn't answer this, I don't know a fast way to search for this)

The Imperium-SirCakez war seems genuinely heated. I think they're on different teams (leaning scum on imperium for previous reasons), or they're just REALLY emotionally tunnel-visioned if they're both town. I hope it's not the latter. If you're town and you're reading this, take a deep breath lol. It'll be for the better.

Your previous reasons were based on misinterpreting my posts.

And I don't really like the Imperium and Cakez could switch spots depending on Norfolk's alignment. It might not be a scummy thought but I don't like it.

Nothing should change for your placement on me or Cakez depending on Norfolk's alignment. If town, maaybe Cakez? if you think his push is a bad faith push, but definitely not me. Think it's based on misinterpreting my position.

[Imperium]

Imperium can I be your sheep

baaaaah

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Ordered list from towniest to scummiest, huh? I'm not quite willing to do that, because pretty much everyone is nullish for me right now. It'd be a crap list, something like, oh god, uh

Wheme
unwnd

Dunnstral
RLotus
Imperium
Not_Mafia

<everyone else goes here at hard null in a basically random order>

<there are no scumleans or nullscums>

Cakez

Which tells you that I have 3 strong reads and 4 weak reads (to be clear, they're extremely weak reads, damn near homeopathic reads) and that's /it/. I have stronger opinions on some of my nulls than my weak reads, but the opinions are conflicting and I can't commit to any particular alignment for them without more data.

Well. Sorta.

I want to revisit the above in a moment, though, because I want to address some other stuff beforehand.



I'm frustrated by my position on every single goddamn list I've seen. I play like a crazy person, how am I getting the hardest townreads in the damn game! Flip side: STT putting me closer to scum is inexplicable, but at least I can sorta see it from a "do not trust the crazy" perspective...

Except that his reasoning for it and the way he reaches for other people to confirm his read (evidence of doubt) while signaling strong conviction in my alignment being scum reminds me of Death Curse on Day 1, and particularly of Zdenek. It feels like trying to weaken my position by any means necessary without committing such that he could be shown up by someone familiar with my play. Zdenek was obvscum to me from that half-assed push on me alone. I threw doubt and shade around anyone that townread him as a result, because I was trying to dig up his buddies.

Fortunately, Netflix did the work for me, and lo, there is bad reasoning for having STT as a townread. "Feels like it comes from a town perspective" is worthless until you analyze it and figure out what gives you that feeling, folks. That's where the lies hide.

STT, I have no scum games. Literally, not a single one, across any game of Mafia I have ever played. I also have no third party games. I also have no /power role/ games. I have no alts, I am part of no hydras; I wouldn't be able to take the pressure. I play a single game at a time, that's all I can handle. And my playstyle is too distinctive to get away with trying to hide my identity. I have been vanilla town in every single game I have played, period.

Your reaching to try and paint me as scum for having a wild playstyle itself wouldn't be too odd to me, except that you don't seem to trust your own read but still are putting me damn near the very bottom of your list. I'm calling this a scumclaim. You can have the bullet instead of Cakez -- I /think/ Cakez flips red, I /am certain/ that you do now.


Wheme
unwnd

Dunnstral
RLotus
Imperium
Not_Mafia

<everyone else goes here at hard null in a basically random order>

<there are no scumleans or nullscums>

Cakez

STT



Oh, and one more thing. Anyone who townreads STT, I'm going to be looking through the lists. I would very much like you to explain yourselves. In great, exhaustive detail. Really beat the hell out of your belief that STT is town, /challenge yourself/, because I will throw down a /solid/ wager that you are wrong. Say, winner gets to control the loser's first shot when they inevitably get the gun (because this is gonna look /real/ bad for whoever is wrong, and they shouldn't trust themselves to hit shit anyway). I'm not joking or exaggerating, STT looks awful here, and you can check Death Curse to see that I'm right. ISO Zdenek, and Ctrl+F "MUSH". Recognize that Zdenek was replaced by Frederick A Campbell, who was our very first scum kill in Death Curse, and opened the door to red flip city. I am putting my bet down, I want anyone who thinks I'm wrong to put their money where their mouth is and/or eat lead.

[Imperium]

^^^

Why I'm town leaning Mush, netflix

[Imperium]

From more likely town to more likely scum:

SirCakez
RLotus
Dunnstral
unwnd
Duchess
WhemeStar
Rockhopper
Imperium
MUSHSHAGANA
Not_Mafia
Norfolk Boy1

Note: a lot of things could swing wildly if conditions change. For example, Imperium and Cakez could switch spots depending on Norfolk's alignment.

MUSH is less scummy since my last post. Mostly due to the sheer effort that writing those walls would take...

MUSHSHAGANA, do you have any games you've played where you're scum? (others feel free to link me games if MUSH doesn't answer this, I don't know a fast way to search for this)

The Imperium-SirCakez war seems genuinely heated. I think they're on different teams (leaning scum on imperium for previous reasons), or they're just REALLY emotionally tunnel-visioned if they're both town. I hope it's not the latter. If you're town and you're reading this, take a deep breath lol. It'll be for the better.

Oh Mush's last post reminded me I had another question about this post. Why is Mush the only person you asked for a meta link for?

Also, it's pretty easy to find. Just click on the username, search their topics, and hunt through the topics for a scum game. Nice mods keep their first post updated.

[Imperium]

Cakez
STT
Mush
--
RLotus
Imperium
Wheme
--
Norfolk
Rockhopper
Duchess

I just went back to Tenet to look at your reads list there, and we're in the exact same place as we were there. lol

If you end up in the middle of my d1 reads that just usually means I need more time to sort you in my head

I'm just chuckling at the same placement. I don't expect you to read me well.

You've scumpinged and townpinged probably in like two posts now since that readlist

Yeah you could be right, but at some point with a read like that you have to tell yourself 'not enough data' instead of assuming you can pull data out of your ass

It feels odd that you felt the need to explain this when I was just chuckling at them being the same in placement.

If you had scum pings though you could interact with me, and get that data to sort it out.

[Syryana]

Rockhopper has been prodded.

[Norfolk Boy1]

My list:

Netflix
Imperium
Mush
Not Mafia
Lotus
Unwnd
Cakez
Dunnstral
Duchess
Wheme
Rockhopper
ScrewTheTells

Ultimately, I don't mind being shot as it would clear all tbe gubbins around me up and we could move on, but I don't consider it a good trade for Netflix.

My town leanings are:

Imperium, based mainly on the interactions with Cakez and what I consider to be a parallel scenario with misreps.

Mush's application of logic is what I live for and I rate it highly.

Not Mafia is so reserved at the moment and based on my experience that's a little towntell.

Lotus was a little scumread for me earlier, but the back and forth with Duchess and the assessment in posts 437 and 439 have resonated with me. I like the theory and this comes across as genuine scumhunting.

I'm on the fence about Unwnd, Cakez and Dunnstral right now. I still feel that Cakez is just having a western and I don't think they're the right shot at the moment.

I wouldn't object to a Duchess or Wheme shot, both feel like they could flip scum.

Quiet Rockhopper isn't the gung ho town Rockhopper that I know.

And ScrewTheTells is my number 1 choice as previously mentioned.

[Norfolk Boy1]

Not Mafia, how are you feeling about the game? Who would you shoot?