TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[Auro]

auro, have you considered that everyone else in this game is townreading me? do you believe me to be such a godtier scum player that I would be able to fool the entire town over a 160+ page game, including people who know how I play scum and multiple replacements?

1. Yes
2. Yes

[Auro]

I don't think you'd need to be a godtier scum player, people are just wrong sometimes

[chennisden]

I don't believe for a second that you'd be resigned to your fate if you were town.

I have precedence Rapier U-Pick go search it up

Well maybe dont just do it again?

What's the

point

? Solving >>> surviving when survival is temporary and doesn't really matter much as opposed to solving when consensus is against your reads.

Hi

So once there was a game where ppl just thought I was scum and were too busy shitting up the thread D1 to actually, y'know, vote me

And I, with my ability to outspam any player in said game, just prevented them from limming me, and all this WITHOUT giving into town consensus and just voting the easiest slot to survive

Eventually town came around onto my correct scumread which I had been pushing and angling for since the beginning of the day, and on D2 the town was in a good position

By the way this game is "Black Flag Nightless" if I remember correctly

[Auro]

People townreading you is irrelevant to me unless they can make a convincing case that you're town, which I haven't seen yet.

[chennisden]

Btw shirou is the prime example of why replacements break the game and I think it's pretty ridiculous the site has such a lenient culture with replacing out

[chennisden]

People townreading you is irrelevant to me unless they can make a convincing case that you're town, which I haven't seen yet.

I didnt sit around waiting for someone else to case me town, no I didnt

[lilith2013]

now fmpov in order to think you are town, I have to believe that you believe I’m capable of such a thing - but you yourself have observed my scumgame and pointed out its flaws. Can you explain why you think this game is possibly in the realm of my scumgame in light of those observations? Do you believe that my play has been surface level and that my questions don’t go anywhere?

[lilith2013]

I would expect if you actually believed me to be scum, that your primary reason for disagreeing with shirou’s strategy would be

my

alignment, not infinity’s - but you’ve been focusing on disagreeing with the infinity piece of his strategy.

[Auro]

And I, with my ability to outspam any player in said game, just prevented them from limming me, and all this WITHOUT giving into town consensus and just voting the easiest slot to survive

"Black Flag Nightless" with 3 free town lims before LyLo and multiple lhf slots that I am beginning to suspect are town~

[chennisden]

(by the way if it's not clear i'm mostly memeing, im a freaking SPAMMER for crying out loud)

I dunno Chennis, I did agree with Firebringer that I don't see you as a spammer necessarily.

But I suppose you're spammy, and can be a spammer in some games, but being a bit spammy doesn't directly translate to being effectively a spammer in some games?

I think we need to theory discuss the functions, responsibilities and meaning of the title spammer...

wtf

you might look at the postcounts and think, "chennis is in the MIDDLE of the playerlist? what a casual." but you're not considering the most important thing

who has the most USELESS posts in this game? who has the highest useless post : useful post ratio?

you think I need something like POSTS to spam the game? im just on a different level from you all

[Auro]

I would expect if you actually believed me to be scum, that your primary reason for disagreeing with shirou’s strategy would be

my

alignment, not infinity’s - but you’ve been focusing on disagreeing with the infinity piece of his strategy.

There is no strategy for Auro->Flopz townflips, though?
I'm just arguing for Lilith!lim precedence in any universe.

[Shirou]

No, I would objectively case why Lilith is a godtier scum player if she turns out to be scum here

I'll even give a quick example of something

The fact that Lilith focus now is questioning Auro inconsistencies but not immediately voting would be very good scum play in my opinion. Lilith simply could engage me and get me to say for her to sheep me, or she could act indignant in Auro still scum reading her and insta-vote, but instead she still seems to be trying to sort him to solidify her mind.

I don't think that much of my scum game, but if I was scum here, I wouldn't have that patience at all of perfectly replicating cautious town process. I would just vote Auro and work from the point of accusing him in most cases, although I do the same quick votes as town so I guess it's NAI to me, but still I think in many angles Lilith is playing an amazing scum game if she's scum.

[chennisden]

there's a level of paranoia in town that's like "NO Im town you BETTER TOWNREAD ME" even when said town isnt under threat of dying, and this is a) present in lilith and b) hard for most scum to fake, I think

[lilith2013]

also would like to note that as soon as Johnny posted after the vc, my team and I simultaneously went “JOHNNY MUST BE SCUM RIGHT?!?! following the thread but didn’t post until after the vc?!?!” I obviously wasn’t sure but like.... again, 0 reasons to townread, I thought he was possibly scum based on the timing of the post, want the day to be over and don’t see a better wagon - I don’t understand how these are “too strong” of reasons as you seem to be implying..

[Auro]

now fmpov in order to think you are town, I have to believe that you believe I’m capable of such a thing - but you yourself have observed my scumgame and pointed out its flaws. Can you explain why you think this game is possibly in the realm of my scumgame in light of those observations? Do you believe that my play has been surface level and that my questions don’t go anywhere?

I know you know my then-observations on your then-scumplay and I'm very sure you'd avoid doing the same (that particular tell was "flurry of questions not followed up upon"). I do think your play has been surfacey and your scumhunting has been lacklustre, but on a much subtler level.

[chennisden]

No, I would objectively case why Lilith is a godtier scum player if she turns out to be scum here

I'll even give a quick example of something

The fact that Lilith focus now is questioning Auro inconsistencies but not immediately voting would be very good scum play in my opinion. Lilith simply could engage me and get me to say for her to sheep me, or she could act indignant in Auro still scum reading her and insta-vote, but instead she still seems to be trying to sort him to solidify her mind.

I don't think that much of my scum game, but if I was scum here, I wouldn't have that patience at all of perfectly replicating cautious town process. I would just vote Auro and work from the point of accusing him in most cases, although I do the same quick votes as town so I guess it's NAI to me, but still I think in many angles Lilith is playing an amazing scum game if she's scum.

Actually would like to point out that you don't even have to be very good at scum to do what you're describing

It's really easy to present cautiousness (and advantageous to actually BE cautious!) as scum, I think. I agree faking it is hard, but when I display cautiousness I don't really

fake

it, there's a high level of genuineness there because I really do need to make sure how I'm angling myself doesn't end up backfiring on me later. And I'm not amazing at scum, there's definitely better scum than me in this lobby. Idk lilith's meta but "better than chennis" is a LOW LOW bar for scumplay

[Auro]

There is no strategy for Auro->Flopz townflips, though?

Before any further questions about what part of the "strategy" I'm misplacing my focus on, I'd like to hear the strategy for {Auro->Flopz universe}.

[chennisden]

Think Johnny was basically confirmed scum by the time he did that

[Auro]

Hmm maybe I should stop hunting and just focus on having more posts than Chennis

[lilith2013]

No, I would objectively case why Lilith is a godtier scum player if she turns out to be scum here

I'll even give a quick example of something

The fact that Lilith focus now is questioning Auro inconsistencies but not immediately voting would be very good scum play in my opinion. Lilith simply could engage me and get me to say for her to sheep me, or she could act indignant in Auro still scum reading her and insta-vote, but instead she still seems to be trying to sort him to solidify her mind.

I don't think that much of my scum game, but if I was scum here, I wouldn't have that patience at all of perfectly replicating cautious town process. I would just vote Auro and work from the point of accusing him in most cases, although I do the same quick votes as town so I guess it's NAI to me, but still I think in many angles Lilith is playing an amazing scum game if she's scum.

now I wish I was scum so this would be true

[Shirou]

Btw shirou is the prime example of why replacements break the game and I think it's pretty ridiculous the site has such a lenient culture with replacing out

I don't necessarily disagree with this, I had something similar happen to me with okapoka replacing in a game I had as scum considered virtually won because I had setup the stage for the last day be Tunneled Town vs Pocketing Partner vs Sacrificial Lamb, but hmm...what happened surprised me a bit although I predicted it a bit when the replacement took place.

However, elaborate?

[chennisden]

fwiw before Shirou subbed in Lilith was the one who really entertained the Johnny scumread and didnt let it fade from collective town consciousness

of course my Game History might be wrong here, correct me if it is

[lilith2013]

now fmpov in order to think you are town, I have to believe that you believe I’m capable of such a thing - but you yourself have observed my scumgame and pointed out its flaws. Can you explain why you think this game is possibly in the realm of my scumgame in light of those observations? Do you believe that my play has been surface level and that my questions don’t go anywhere?

I know you know my then-observations on your then-scumplay and I'm very sure you'd avoid doing the same (that particular tell was "flurry of questions not followed up upon"). I do think your play has been surfacey and your scumhunting has been lacklustre, but on a much subtler level.

okay please describe then

I feel like I’ve adequately explained any “lacklustre” or “surfacey” moments by my work schedule. So what makes you believe that any of these moments are better explained by my being scum than my being busy?

[Auro]

fwiw before Shirou subbed in Lilith was the one who really entertained the Johnny scumread and didnt let it fade from collective town consciousness

And we have different opinions on the alignment it indicates, apparently

[Shirou]

Actually would like to point out that you don't even have to be very good at scum to do what you're describing

I guess I partially agree on this as long as we also agree on this:

Most people don't seem to enjoy or put that much effort into being scum, therefore although it's arguably not that difficult, in practice it's rarer to encounter those kind of behaviors because scum often just get greedy, impatient, low-effort etc.

I would consider Lilith here as very good scum play either way especially considering other points, but dunno, to each their opinion.