Mini 645 - Innocence Falls (Game Over)

[nureins]

@nuriens: I do not like your "semi-final" thingie at all. There are lots of things I don't like about it, including false dichotomies and narrowing choices so that they are made by fewer players. I think you should probably just abandon it.

You want it or not, Sirdan and you are on top of the suspicions. You want it or not, the reasons can be found mostly in the affair you have had, right ? I totally feel Sirdan is scum but half of the people "favours" him, half of the people "favours" you...I am not narrowing players, just Ecto is not suspect and he has not expressed a clear opinion among you two. Then I feel quite natural to decide on either you and sirdan and confront that person to either karne or pacman.

Furthermore, I find it highly questionable (especially after what I said recently about the possible link between you and Ecto) that you would suggest that Ecto should make a lone final decision about

anything

.

I already told you about that. Ecto's change is pretty natural. I do not know if he considers me top scum, but even if he does, take a look at the opinion of people. I am an honorary mention of a couple of people (some of them considering me townie), Ecto's top scum (which i find understandable due to his concise style of playing) and Karne's top scum (curiously, a suspicion that started because he talked of Cass and Me as a pair, and this provoked lot of suspects over him from Cass and Jahudo and then some others...). Hardly a "compromise" vote, so he moved up in the scale to pacman.

Moreover, as far as I know, you wrote a list of 6 suspects, and neither Ecto nor me were there. And during the last days, if somebody has accepted you as a townie is probably me. I do not see why my proposal is so offensive to you, the division between sirdan and you is pretty clear, and I feel there are some people with lot of doubts about who to lynch. Right now, I have to admit I am quite lost...

Let's just see if we can agree to narrow down the choices. K?

In fact, considering that Karne is going to be replaced, we already have the votes narrowed down to the top 4. Let's keep it that way. And start culling it further.

how ? people is tired, see the amount of posts. I am writting today's post just to answer you, as nobody has posted...I already said anybody is free to propose any solution and implement it if he/she respects my order, Sirdan > karne > pacman > ythill.

[sirdanilot]

Note:

I've been a bit busy as of late so sorry for the lack of posting. I don't have time for big replies right now.

[Cass]

Hi Kuribo. And I saw Karne on the site today, so if you read this, Citizen karne: please come back and help us finish this day. I think this is one of the strangest games of mafia I've played yet. This whole compromise lynch is... different.

[Goatrevolt]

Hi Kuribo. And I saw Karne on the site today, so if you read this, Citizen karne: please come back and help us finish this day. I think this is one of the strangest games of mafia I've played yet. This whole compromise lynch is... different.

Agreed. I haven't been playing mafia all that long, but I've never seen anything like it.

[Ectomancer]

Hi Kuribo. And I saw Karne on the site today, so if you read this, Citizen karne: please come back and help us finish this day. I think this is one of the strangest games of mafia I've played yet. This whole compromise lynch is... different.

Agreed. I haven't been playing mafia all that long, but I've never seen anything like it.

I have played an entire game that was a consensus lynch game. It was odd, but it isn't necessarily a bad idea. The main problem with it is that scum can manipulate it if too much information is given, so I think order of scum list presented would matter quite a bit without an impartial observer helping (which of course we dont have).
To me, in effect, all lynches are unspoken compromise lynches unless they hard evidence behind the case.

[Ythill]

You want it or not, Sirdan and you are on top of the suspicions.

I understand this, but your system proposes that only one of us enter a run-off against one of #3 & #4. It isn't impartial.

I am not narrowing players, just Ecto is not suspect and he has not expressed a clear opinion among you two... Moreover, as far as I know, you wrote a list of 6 suspects, and neither Ecto nor me were there.

Then Ecto made a vote change that seriously cleared you, immediately after which you started pushing for this new model of compromise. I still don't have serious suspicions about either of you, but you have to admit that this bit does look bad. I'd rather not participate in a system that is both flawed and suspect.

how ?

Well, if I can manage to find the time, I plan on putting together a comprehensive defense of pacman, because I believe that he's the worst lynch on the list. Others' could do the same for their objections. Or people could further question one or more of the accused, or elaborate on cases.

I think it's possible to narrow this list and a agree on a lynch. Let's all just pretend we have a deadline.

[Simenon]

I've played a few games where the idea to "compromise lynch" has been generated, but it is always shot down and a tacit compromise is reached anyway. I feel this will share that fate.

[Erratus Apathos]

Darox replaces Citizen Karne.

[Darox]

Its a replacement!

Reading through the thread, will post some thoughts, etc etc.

[kuribo]

I'm not going to do a complete post by post analysis, because that would take too damn long, and this Day has been going for a month and a half.

Instead, here are my thoughts by page. I'm typing these as I read, so I reserve the right to change my opinion as I go along.

Page 1- Mostly random voting. Ythill doesn't do random votes, but I've played a handful of games with him, so I already know this isn't a scumtell for him. I don't mind nureins questioning him about this behavior. What I don't like is how he seems to accept Ythill's answer, and keeps his vote on him. habitang drops a vote on Ythill too. What did that hope to accomplish? This is the random vote stage but I don't think this vote is random. Andycyca OMGUS votes Simenon, but this is null too, since it's also a seemingly joke-vote. Ectomancer finishers off Page 1 asking Simenon what his supposedly serious vote would accomplish. Page 1 thoughts- What the hell do you want me to say? It's page 1.

Page 2- Pope's Tiara leads us off with an argument I've never liked: "Are you trying to act scummy so as not to draw attention to yourself?" Um, dude, I think that acting scummy has the exact opposite of that effect. And, further, the Matin post he quotes is taken completely out of context. Goat manages to clear up what I agree with as Matin's intent, but stops short of accusing Pope of twisting his words. (I would have.) habitang drops an FOS on Jahuto for trying to take things "to the next level." I don't like this: If things never reach the next level, then we're just random voting one another all day. nhat points out exactly what I said about Pope misrepresenting Matin's argument. Townie points to nhat for that. nureins says he took it that way too. (I don't like this explaining Pope's bizarre action) Pope also does this again, twisting Matin's words and comparing him to the Joker. How are you people not voting to pressure Tiara right now? Matin does a good job of pointing out how stupid the case is, and Ythill drops a vote on Pope. (Good for you, Ythill, about time) Pope rounds up page two by saying that his statements are meant as "ironic." I disagree. Page 2 Summary--- not liking Pope, don't like nurein's jumping in to help him. Liking Ythill and nhat right now, too.

I need to shorten these summaries.

Page 3- Pope's Tiara accuses Ythill of trying to gather information. (We all are) and votes him. Clearly OMGUS in disguise--- that's bad, coming from me since I hate the term OMGUS. Nhat doesn't like this post either. Good for you! Ecto votes Pope, clearly trying to put pressure on Pope. (Good vote) Nureins offers Matin 4 choices. (I hate when people do this, sometimes it's something you've never considered.) Pope votes himself. (Go cry some more, emo kid) Pope catches heat for this--- as well he should. Simenon makes a blanket statement that Pope is town without explanation. (Shame on you Sim, you should know that you're going to have to elaborate later) Sim piles a fourth vote on Ythill claiming Pope's post was clearly a joke. (What?) Ecto isn't sure where this puts us. Page 3 summary--- Pope, Simenon and nurein are my biggest suspects right now, the bandwagon on Ythill is absolutely ridiculous. At this point, MafiaScum goes down and I go play Pokemon LeafGreen, but I lie and say I'm playing Crysis. And we're back. I caught me a Mankey... errr, I mean, I choke-slammed lots of soldiers off cliffs.

Page 4- Cass tosses a well justified vote on Sim. Jahudo questions him too with a loaded question. (Shame on you) Generally a well thought-out post by Jahudo. Great post by Andy. Though I get the feeling he'll be replaced. Page 4 thoughts--- Still not liking Pope, I don't like the idea that "townies would self-vote." Here's a hint--- if scum know that, (and they do), they'll do it too.

Page 5- Interesting here is nureins backtracking from siding with Pope and dropping an FOS on him. I understand the reasoning for your backtracking--- you've been told now that he's not just some newbie mucking stuff up. But more disturbing is the fact that you DID defend him for so long... and now you drop an FOS? Why not a vote? Then you say you don't want him to be pressured? (Awww, let's take it easy on poor little Popey. WRONG! PRESSURE PRESSURE PRESSURE! ALWAYS MORE PRESSURE WRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHH *head starts spinning around backwards, vomits pea soup on the priest) Gives Pope a few helpful tips, "Think if you're a townie, this doesn't help, it's difficult to find people to defend you," etc. Simenon goes way off the deepend, and chooses not to defend himself. Page 5 Summary--- Pope and nureins still on my terrorist watch list. Sim does indeed look a BIT better, as he seems to be taking everyone to task for everything.

Page 6- nureins uses a loaded question to go after habitang. I agree somewhat with Goat that what Cass said isn't right--- those aren't scumtells for Sim. And I hate the "over defensive" "over aggressive" arguments--- I tend to be very aggressive. Page 6 Summary--- Leaning towards Sim as town, I liked how he explained his statments. Don't like Cass calling him over-defensive. I like the fact that nureins starts getting some votes / pressure here. Pope's Tiara is scummy and a lazy player who doesn't seem to be doing anything more than "lol mafiascum," and should likely be policy lynched just for that. (somewhat kidding)

Page 7- Infers vs implies is the stupidest argument I've ever read and it gives my brain the cry-alones. nureins blatantly and self-admittedly OMGUS votes Ythill. (LYNCH NUREINS) Nureins says that Andy is lurking (um, he said he'd be V/LA, remember?) and Cass agrees. (WTF?) And then Andy pops in. (I know Andy to be town, because I replaced him, but I don't like when people do that) habitang thinks Nureins and Sim are townies engaged in friendly fire. (Um, nureins is scummy by himself) Page 7 thoughts- Nureins still scummy. Pope seems to have given up on the game entire and taken the "lol mafiascum" approach. Townies shouldn't do this, I believe him to be scum who sees no point in continuing the game for fear of outting his partners.

Page 8- Oh look, it's nhat, how nice of you to join us. WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY A GAME OF MAFIA? Anyway, I mostly agree with nhat's sad little solitary post. I agree with Ythill. I hate theory discussion. It makes me want to killy myself and everyone around me. nureins actually accuses Ythill of misrepresenting an argument and compares him to some guy I've never heard of. (Ugh, how do you people ignore this crap?) Page 8 Summary- I think Ythill's on the right track and nureins is scum.

Page 9- nureins calls Ythill repetitive (I know you are, but what am I?) Ythill sees his behavior as backing down. (Agreed) Ythill puts together a REALLY strong case against nureins, says he won't name the three people he thinks are town. (GOOD!) nhat FOS' him for that (It's a bad idea because then scum knows who to NK) and Sim agrees with me / Ythill on that point. habitang twists Ythills "not all three are scum" to mean "There are three scum." (Bad post) To his credit, habitang backs down on this. Page 9 Summary--- I CAN HAS NUREINS PRESSURE PLZ? Also, where the hell did Pope go? Ythill doing some serious scum hunting.

Page 10- Nureins. GOEBELS GOEBELS GOEBELS. :rolleyes: habitang asks the mod how many scum there are. (It's a closed setup, we won't find out until we find out) Cass wants to know where Pope is (good for you) and nureins defends him. SURPRISE SURPRISE. Nureins claims if he wasn't after Ythill he'd be after Pope. Um... then why have you been sticking up for him? You wouldn't be after Pope, you'd likely be after habitang. Agreed with Sim that Ecto's "I can't get a read on anyone" is useless. Big difference between "I can't get a read" and "I'll explain later." Page 10 Summary- LYNCH NUREINS.

Page 11- Sim and Ecto go back and forth about not voting. (Sim can vote however his heart desires, just so you know) Nureins vs. Ythill round three, point goes to Ythill. Andy is useless in this game. Ythill makes a good point about Cass' "make a case against someone" request. habitang requests a No Lynch.

wait, what?

Seriously?

Also, what makes habit know there's a vig? Also, who's to assume that the vig would be stupid enough to random kill someone N1. (Most experienced vigs don't kill N1)
Pope is being replaced. By Tritch. nureins stops going after Ythill "after requests from the audience." (Your convictions must not have been very strong) Tritch tosses accusation on nhat and Cass. (But what about your predecessor and his cheerleader nureins?) Page 11 Summary- No lynch? Seriously? Bad form, habit, you've just moved next to nureins / Tritch on my scum meter. With nureins and Ythill getting so much attention, your request for a no lynch could easily be seen (by me) as an attempt to save one of them.

Page 12- Jahudo says "Any scum might have left the TPT wagon long ago." I don't like this, because you're implying that you absolutely must be town, having only now gotten around to leaving it. nhat says Tritch is engaging in OMGUS, (Um, no, but he is deflecting attention away from nureins) Matin's coming out. (of the game, not the closet) nureins votes Tritch. You see, I think this is an attempt to offset his earlier buddying up to TPT by distancing from Tritch. That's just my opinion though. Page 12 Summary- Game starting to slow down, my thoughts same as before. Habit / nureins / Tritch deserve lots of attention.

Page 13- nhat thinks Habit is suspicious. Habit asks for a do-over. (WRONG!) Defends Tritch. Nhat wants pressure on habit. (Sure, let's ignore nureins, still I think this vote is warranted) Sim agrees with nhat. Andy, too. (Jesus, man, if you're not gonna play, don't vote, it just makes things harder on me. Still, I'd have voted habit too) Jahudo votes habit too, citing how emotional he is. (Slow down, guys) Goat calls nureins a newb. (Yes, but if we give people that out, scum will get away with lots that they shouldn't) Page 13 Summary- You guys are letting the habit bandwagon pick up steam really fast. And yet nureins languished? For shame. Although I do get town reads on the people on this bandwagon. But still.

Page 14- Nureins doesn't know who the lurkers are (yeah right) Cass gives habit a helpful tip about not self voting. ("Thanks!" says habit as scum) Accuses Andy of lurking. (What? He's barely been playing all game) Cass starts coming under fire here, but personally I think you guys are getting distracted too easily. Page 14 summary: More nureins lynching plz.

HALFTIME!

*the band comes out and starts playing*

Now I'll go try and Catch 'Em All... errr. catch my breath, while I prepare to summarize my thoughts on the second half of the game.

[Ythill]

OMG Darox, you're stalking me.

No time for that defense of pacman yet. Maybe tonight.

[sirdanilot]

I am going to wait until Darox finishes reading and posts some content to decide whom of Matin/Citizen/Darox and habitang/pacman is a better lynch out of those two. I am currently leaning Darox (I really never saw habitang as suspicious), but I may change my mind about that matter.

Darox, while you're reading the game, it may be good if you get a separate read on the most suspicious players (tpt/me and Ythill) as well, and maybe some explanation about the play of your predecessors.

note:

I still do not have the time to make a big post. I was planning to make one big post which is about Ythill or my defense (or both), but I can't find the time for it. Maybe I can get to it Sunday, but I doubt it...

[sirdanilot]

EBWOP: Wow, I managed to cross post with that huge PBPA (Page by Page analysis!).

[Ythill]

Yeah, me too.

I've played with kuribo a lot. I don't think he's scum here.

[Ectomancer]

Me likey Kuribo.

[nureins]

Page 2 Summary--- not liking Pope, don't like nurein's jumping in to help him. Liking Ythill and nhat right now, too.

I never helped pope at all. Might you explain what you meant with that ?

- I perceived the L-2 precipitated though found him suspicious and noticed from the very beginning. (I declared openly a couple of times, if you want the quotes I can re-read and copy them for you)
- I perceived the Simenon "tpt is town" unreasoned and suspicious.
- I found tpt autovote suspicious.
- When Cass asked ythill and me to explore other people, tpt was my natural candidate (after simenon, as ythill? perfectly pointed out to me and I explained to him)


After that, I guess all your vision of me is clearly biased because you think I backed from siding with tpt, and so on...

Great work anyway.

[Ythill]

As promised... why I think habit/pacman should not be today’s lynch:

My initial case on habit was in post #256. I will not bother going back further, but will address my thoughts at that time.

At the time, habit was one of my top three. My main suspicions were directed at nuriens and I had two secondary suspects (habit and Matin) based on notes from a reread I’d done. My case on habit can be summarized into five points: (1) heavy reliance on WIFOM for position changes, (2) his strange opinion changes regarding Jah, (3) his soft treatment of Pope, (4) the

I misread a lot

claim, which could have been a ruse, and (5) his practice of decrying various scum-hunting styles.

(1) Reliance on WIFOM is not a sure-fire scumtell because there are plenty of people who mistakenly believe that WIFOM is solid logic. Habit didn’t really have a lot of solid logic, and there were other areas where he came across as an unskilled rather than scummy player. Without the other tells to back it up, I would be comfortable chalking up his WIFOM use to poor (rather than scummy) play.

(2) The original argument was that he jumped on Jah for weak reasons when it might have protected Pope but then jumped off of Jah, citing lack of town support. However, future posts revealed that habit never actually stopped

suspecting

Jah, he just stopped making arguments that were not going anywhere, which agrees with his attitude regarding (5) below.

(3) Habit went easy on Pope, and even defended him. The first part, in hindsight, isn’t incredibly scummy. Habit went easy on everyone including his top suspect (Jah) and the people who attacked him. The second part also makes sense to me because habit cited several times where he had been in similar situations and also demonstrated that his skin maybe wasn’t think enough for the pressure of the game. These two things combined tell me that habit is the type of

person

likely to feel honest sympathy for someone in Pope’s position, which has nothing to do with his alignment.

(4) It’s still possible that this could have been a ruse, but a

possibility

is not an airtight case.

(5) This part really bothered me about habit, but his answer was that he was actually decrying the act of muddying the waters. I’m still not sure I believe that defense, but it fits perfectly with his treatment of Jah (see 2) so I suppose it is at least possible.

On to current matters…

The unvote issue was bad, but it came across as the act of a new, unskilled player confused by the wordiness of this game. Habit later replaced out because he was having trouble keeping up, which fits nicely with this theory.

Habit spends a couple of posts interpreting the flavor and talking about the set-up, which made him seem lost. He then votes Jah and actually makes some pretty compelling points.

Then comes the infamous #306. I really don’t know what got people all riled up about this post. It didn’t seem out of character at all. Habit was not good at arguing, nor at mafia-scum. He’s played a few games here and they’ve left him feeling dumb. That’s not a good feeling. What strikes me here (and this is where I started to clear habit) is that the wagon on him started so quickly at that point. Votes came with little reasoning

from people who had seen habit act similarly already, without saying that it was supicious

.

I also find it extremely scummy that the wagon on habit derailed so quickly when it faced a lack of further support. I haven’t looked too closely at the individuals on that wagon (except Jah) but it strikes me as odd that suspicions of that level of seriousness would be abandoned with hardly any defense at all. The most obvious explanation was that the habit wagon was an engineered distraction from the Pope or nuriens cases which lost its usefulness after the chief scum-hunters had turned to look elsewhere.

Post #354 has an interesting bit. Habit uses an appeal to expertise

to argue against himself

, which demonstrates to me that his weak logic was integral to his person rather than tactical.

Habit’s announced reread of Sim that accidentally became a case against Andy was strange, but I find it transparent enough. The case against Andy is not solid, but I can understand why habit had those notions.

He continues attacking Jah and questions Karne, but the rest of habit’s contributions are extremely light. Which makes sense. University classes started at the end of August, when this change occurred, and habit cited schoolwork overload as his reason to request replacement.

Pacman replaced in and went through the usual welcome. He cited confusion with we windbags, but soon addressed habit’s play and then got right into the scum-hunting.

He caught Sim exaggerating in #561 and being slippery in #564, and continues to take jabs at him as the thread progresses. He adds Karne to his suspect list as well. The reasoning in both cases is not huge, but it is valid, and it’s not like pacman is placing votes based on it.

The rest of his posts are defenses (one of them very valid) and an argument about when to end the day, which is a null tell. I’d like to see more from this guy but I haven’t seen a single scumtell from him yet, which suggests that habit’s bad play was to be forgiven as stemming from him personally rather than from his alignment.

I’m still on a bit of a time crunch (full time job, father of a toddler, etc) so I didn’t bother to address specific accusations but I’d be willing to if those supporting a pacman lynch would quote them or at least give me a post # for reference.

Anyway... my conclusion here is that habit was a bad player, sort of a natural VI, who was used by scum to protect others who had come into the spotlight. I think that pacman's play has been null or slightly townie. Compiling the two, there is certainly still the possibility that the role is scum, but I wouldn't count on it. Sirdan is a far better lynch. Karne may be as well, though I'd have to reread him to make that statement definitively. And of course I know that I am town but, like I said in #596, I at least understand why I have drawn suspicions from some townie-seeming players.

[nhat]

Both Darox and Kuribo replaced into this game? This has officially become the most hell-esque game of Mafia in the history of ever.



But honestly, looking forward to your thoughts. Here's to you two not gang-raping me in this game!

[Jahudo]

I agree with Ythill about pacman's play; I don't think he's done anything bad on his own so far, or else I don't interpret it that way. If the feeling is more about habitang still, than why did his wagon end and why did the questioning largely end even before he had to be replaced?

[kuribo]

Both Darox and Kuribo replaced into this game? This has officially become the most hell-esque game of Mafia in the history of ever.



But honestly, looking forward to your thoughts. Here's to you two not gang-raping me in this game!

Why would I do that? So far (in this game) I get mostly town vibes from you. Now if you don't mind, I've just gotten the Cascade Badge from Misty. Errr, I mean, started the second half of my analysis. (Anal Leases)

[kuribo]

Previously, on 24.

[Page 3]

Jack Bauer: DAMMIT, Chloe, we are running out of time! I have to speak with the President, NOW.


Wait.

Previously, on Innocence Falls.

kuribo: DAMMIT, Chloe, we are running out of time! (not really) We have to find the scum, NOW.
--------

Page 15: Andy starts off by circling the WIFOM wagons. Pointless post, even more pointless is habit's vote against him. Habit says he can't get a read on Sim because... what? His posts are "within context?" (I think you mean, "In response," how can you not get a read just because of that?) Ythill shines some light on Jahudo, so it's not like the players have tunnel vision. nureins continues playing the progressive question game. (My question is X, and if your question is Y, then I also want to know Z.) STOP GIVING PEOPLE LIMITED OPTIONS FOR A RESPONSE. DO YOU STILL BEAT YOUR WIFE? Lightly defends Jahudo. Cass speculates that both Matin and Tritch could be scum. Well, of course they could, but so could you or anyone else playing. I don't like that statement. Andy says he doesn't have time to post today. (THANK YOU CAPTAIN ACTIVITY) nureins makes the comment about Ythill seeing ghosts. Ythill sees it as a threat, I see it as trying to minimize another bullet point ahead of time. Page 15 Summary--- Still think nureins is scummy, didn't want the spotlight back on him when questioned by Ythill. Not liking habitang, still, either. One statement from Cass as I pointed out struck me as odd.

Page 16: Goat makes a sincere attempt to show that Andy is lurking. Jahudo defends himself by saying he went after TPT and habitang. You guys realize that it's only a good thing for him to do that if they flip scum, right? And on Day 1, who knows who the scum are? (I'll give you a hint, they don't win with the town.) Anyway, Goat responds by saying that no, Jahudo really didn't go after TPT and habit. I don't like any of the discussion about Masons because role speculation doesn't help anyone pro-town. habitang wants to know why Jahudo voted TPT so late. (WTF? He can vote whenever he wants) Really not liking habitang right now, his posts reek of false scumhunting. Admits to being glad the heat's off him. (Why? Running out of defenses, are you, scum?) Page 16 summary: Whooo, go Ivysaur. I mean, habit looks pretty bad in alot of his posts here. Nureins seems to be dialing back the scummy behavior somewhat. (Not necessarily a good thing. And before anyone asks, I'll answer: It's not always a good thing because a dramatic shift in post / play style can indicate a desire for the town to interpret their actions in a certain way.)

Page 17: Ythill wants to know why Jah posted a case if the vote was just for pressure. (Good catch). Karne thinks nureins, Cass, and TPT are his biggest suspects. (I'm with you 66% of the way) Some back and forth between nureins and Ythill. Jah continues building a case against habit. (Not very hard at this point) nureins gives Jah a helpful tip, (Be careful of the words you use). nureins dismisses the case against habit. (How nice of one of my suspsects to do that for the other) Sim hates long posts. (Me too, PBPA not withstanding, but I replaced into a Ythill game, so I deserve this. ) Jahudo posts about Habit, as well. See, the case against him seems to be too strong to indicate that scum is just "reaching." Sim points out that nureins defends people who should be defending themselves. (THANK YOU, I hate when people do that, it stifles discussion.) Habit says he wants Jahudo and Andy lynched and the vig can do the other. (What vig? Is this a softclaim?) Page 17 summary: Nureins, habitang blah blah blah.

Page 18- nureins gets a town read on habit. (IN THE BIZARRO WORLD? Regardless of his alignment, you can't seriously think habit's posts are good scumhunting.) Nureins also says the "
The only scenario under which Im able to see your frustration is that you are scum and you would like to lynch an innocent I would defend..." I have quoted this verbatim because it's an insanely stupid statement and it gave my eyes AIDS. (THANKS! I REALLY USED TO LIKE MY EYES, YOU KNOW.) Nureins ow wants a Sim lynch. (Of course you do) Sirdan thinks habit is newbie town, nureins is town, Sim is scum. I think you're completely ass-backwards. But that's what I expect from TPT's replacement. Sim throws away the stupid statement I noted before. Kinda an angry post from Sim, but I've been in that position as town where I wanted to reach through my screen and choke people who made stupid arguments against me, so I feel for him. Nureins reads all sorts of stuff into this frustration. Andy is still posting. (:rolleyes:) Sirdan puts together a bit on goatrevolt. Karne sees TPT as frustrated town, and really only gets a bad vibe from nureins. Nureins deflects this as an "easy vote." (Seriously, it's page 18. It's been well over a month. HOW IS THIS GUY STILL ALIVE?) Nureins then actually has the balls to "simplify" another player's criticisms of goat. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, AND ALL THAT IS HOLY, STOP ANSWERING FOR OTHER PEOPLE. (actually, keep doing it, I want you to out your scumbuddies) Page 18 summary, I hate writing long posts.

Page 19- Back and forth between nureins and Sim, we go. Karne provides interesting perspective in 453. habit gives Karne a helpful tip about not accusing people of being a pair. (this much is true. You can't say "HAH! X IS Y'S SCUM PARTNER BECAUSE X LOOKS SCUMMY TO ME!" Then, if X turns out to be town, you've wasted alot of discussion, and Y can still be scum) Ythill and Jah still all up on each other. nhat not liking nureins defense of others. (Good for you, nhat, but show some cajones and stick a vote on) nureins continues to defend himself. (Not a scumtell, before anyone says anything stupid to me) Cass holy crap, accuses Karne of lying and bs scumpairing. (I hate when people use emotional words like "you're lying," or "that's an outright lie." It implies intent) More accusations of nureins defending others. Nureins dismisses this. (natch) Page 19 Summary: I'm so hungry, I could eat an octorock.

Page 20- Karne offers to allow nureins to post in Spanish (No thanks, I'd rather not babelfish) and defends himself for looking at the scumpair. Nureins asks Karne a bunch of questions. habit is suspicious of Andy. Ythill calls sirdan slippery (i can haz moar elaborashun plz?) And sirdan wants more elaboration, too. habit is being replaced. (ugh) Sim questions habit. (TOO LATE!) Cass says habit's posting has improved. (IN THE BIZARRO WORLD?) Cass votes Karne in blatant OMGUS, though no one will admmit it. Ythill and sirdan look like they're about to go a few rounds around the horn. Page 20 summary: Cass' behavior has become erratic. I don't like the vote against Karne. Still not liking nureins or habit.

Page 21- And pacman replaces habit. nhat accuses nureins of pretending to make discussion (True. Also, fearless prediction--- Nureins will respond to this post and probably accuse nhat of being scum) He does respond, but doesn't accuse nhat. Lots of pointless talk about Spanish. Pacman finds habit scummy in at least one post. (:rolleyes:) Goat doesn't like Sirdan's lack of a vote against him. Page 22 Summary- Mah boy, this peace is what all true warriors strive for.

Page 22- Sim points out something that I must have missed, and he's right. It's not pro-town to try and limit someone to "Yes" or "No." Ythill vs sirdan picks up some more steam. Ythill makes blanket statements, calling him scum. (I agree with Ythill, but this doesn't help) Jesus on a cracker you people write long posts. Ythill says there's nothing anti-town about badgering people. (You can make scum crack, that way, you know) sirdan votes Ythill (finally, we get to that) Nureins is still refuting dan's case against Goat. Ythill accuses sirdan of not defending himself. (True, to a degree) Page 23 Analysis--- Cass, nureins, sirdan. Mostly I don't like sirdan's posts because I thought TPT was scummy.

Page 23- Sim sums up nureins posting style. (You left out, "Moves on to another person" at the end.) Jah rightly points out that Ythill has been using aggressive words all along. (Nureins should know this, because it was against HIM) Nureins disagrees (oh for Christs sake) Nureins says that Ythill shoulda went after Jah the same way (Why, if he didn't find Jah as scummy as you or sirdan?) pacman jumps to nurein's defense (of course). Cass calls sirdan a "frustrated townie." Is that code for "scum?" Calls Ythill scummy or tunnel-visioned. (Ummm, he's posted valid cases on at least three different players and done a good bit of scum hunting all along) Defends nureins' posts against Sim. Horribly misplaced and bizarre FOS on Sim from pacman. Goebels goebels goebels. I would lynch nureins just so I never have to read that word again. (I kid. I would lynch nureins for lots of reasons) Looooooooooooooooooooooong back and forth between sirdan and Ythill makes my eyes bleed. Ecto (HI NICE OF YOU TO JOIN US. CARE TO PLAY A GAME OF MAFIA WITH US?!) votes nureins. Page 23 Sumamary- If you don't know who I suspect right now, you haven't been paying attention.

Page 24- Karne agrees with Sim about nureins posts. Andy is still here. nhat votes Ythill for calling people scum. nhat thinks nureins' posts are unnecessarily wordy. (Yep) Nureins sums up his case on sirdan. (Except it's not really YOUR case, is it?) pacman slightly FOS' Karne and Sim for a completely stupid reason. Sim doesn't even know what a slight FOS is. (It's when you slice off your Finger of Suspicion and throw half of it at them) Goat doesn't like Ythill's calling other people scum. Cass thinks sirdan is town, Ythill is scum. AND WANTS A KARNE LYNCH. (Cass, are you often in the habit of PLAYING MAFIA WHILE HIGH?) Pacman explains the slight FOS. Ythill compares himself to TSQ, Oman, and vollkan. He's perfectly happy to be in the limelight. (Ythill also probably knows that I tend to be fairly aggressive. Errr, extremely aggressive, at times) Page 24 summary- Cass looking worse and worse. Still not liking nureins, pacman, or sirdan. Squadala!

Page 25- Cass puts together a terrible case against Ythill. Thinks sirdan may be frustrated town. (Stop falling back on giving people the excuse of being frustrated town. Do you know how many scum get away because people assume that?) Words, words words. Pacman agrees with Sirdan. (try posting your own thoughts once in awhile) Ythill wants more people on the sirdan wagon. Ugh, both Ythill and sirdan accuse the other of "lying." God, I hate that. nureins suspects sirdan and Simenon. Cass wants Karne lynched for some bizarre reason. Sirdan (surprise) wants Ythill lynched. Thinks Jah may be scum. (what) Doesn't think pacman is scum (huh?) Page 25 summary- Did nureins even post? Anyway, not liking pacman, sirdan, or Cass either.

Page 26- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


NUREINS


SERIOUSLY


KNOCK IT OFF ABOUT GOEBELS


NO ONE LIVING OR DEAD


EVER


CARED


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA IT MAKES ME WANT TO KILL MYSELF AND EVERYONE AROUND ME IN AN ORGY OF BLOOD AND FIRE.


but I digress. I don't like that Ythill's aggression is seen as a scumtell. Andy wants to be replaced. (I saw that coming) Goat is supsicious of lots and lots of people. Sirdan metas Ythill and says he doesn't badger people. (odd to say, since sirdan cites Mini 539. I was there. Ythill was one of the reasons that NorthJayHawk left the site forever. Also, Jayhawk was scum. He didn't use the "obvscum" strategy, but Ythill did go after Jayhawk aggressively.) Sim thinks nureins is town, wants pacman lynched, promises a case on sirdan. Cass wants a list of who people think are scum or town. (UM, NO) Page 26 Summary- I think Ythill is getting frustrated that we're almost 30 pages in and still on Day 1. I don't think this makes him scum. Nureins is looking a

little[/b] better, but maybe I'm an idiot. Cass needs more attention. My lynch at this point would be pacman. Ecto wants someone dead. (Agreed) Ythill puts together a list of who suspects who. Cass wants the day over. (I think it matters WHO we lynch, just so you know) Pacman says a long day 1 means lots of info. (Yes, but an OVERLY LONG Day 1 also means bandwagons lose steam, people become apathetic, and people forget what happened 20 pages ago) Ecto votes pacman for his misguided statement. I don't like Ythill's appeals to emotion. (When I flip town...) nhat says he has other games to play. (YEAH, YOU DO, DON'T YOU?) Page 26 summary- Pacman should swing.

Page 28- Goat would rather see Ythill lynched than pacman. (Are you blind or just scum?) Cass STILL wants a Karne lynch. (Get it through your head, no one else wants to lynch him, and now lynching an empty chair is even less likely) Says she will vote either pacman or Ythill if that's what "we" agree on. (know what would help us agree? YOU VOTING. DON'T JUST PARROT THE OPINIONS OF OTHERS. Which one do YOU want lynched?) nureins helpfully interprets everyone's position. (don't do that) kuribo replaces in. (how I loathe that guy). Kuribo promises to re-read. Page 28 Summary- Don't worry Zelda, the Triforce of Wisdom has promised that the King will safely return.

Page 29- kuribo writes a long post. God, that guy's annoying. Then he writes another one? Ugh.

But, seriously,

Unvote

if necessary,

Vote: pacman

[Darox]

Technical difficulties are slowing my rereading speed.

Your call is important to us, please hold.

[kuribo]

After that, I guess all your vision of me is clearly biased because you think I backed from siding with tpt, and so on...

Great work anyway.

Do you really think I'm dumb enough to have formed an opinion on you by Page 2? And then based my entire analysis on that? Way to minimize everything I laid out. (You fail)

I never helped pope at all. Might you explain what you meant with that ?

This post very quickly served to discredit Matin's concerns about TPT:

I saw it that way before TPT, I also want a bandwagon !!
Now seriously, after all the posts about the topic, I see two things in Matin's words:

1) that he felt Jahudo stole his vote for ectomancer. This part is what Matin used as any other reason he could use to make a "joke" vote on jahudo. And this is the part that Goatrevolt and Jahudo pointed out. I do not find this part very relevant, as I take Matin's way of voting as any joking way.

2) that he "changed" his mind from voting when jahudo stole the vote. I pointed out this question and later TPT insisted. In my view, not a very serious issue, so I just raised a question delicately to Matin in order to see his answer. I agree that he shouldnt be worried about putting a second vote on someone, and that hidding in the forest is not a good help for us...we do not need townies hidding if they are townies...now I want more words from Matin-jahudo-TPT-Goatrevolt-nhat to clarify my mind...

Also, Post 65 to me read, "Awww, there there, honey, nobody is attacking you, I'll make the bad men go away, it's okay. Shhhh. It's okay. I've got you... Shhhh, yes, let it pour, I'll protect you. There there."

[Ythill]

Heh, I guess I will not be the only suspect for people who think aggression is a scumtell.

It's good to have you around kuribo. Also because you see clearly. Except the habit/pacman case. What the hell? Maybe he's scum, yes. But there is at least one other who is more obviously scum.

Please address my defense of pacman. If it's horribly wrong and you can show me how, maybe I'll vote with you, but only because I've got a good read on you.

Also, I want to know what you think of the nuriens--->Ecto interactions I pointed out. They were very one-sided. What do they mean?

[Ythill]

Also, I know it annoys you, but sirdan

was

lying. Look at where I pointed it out. It's not like I just

said

it. I quoted several places where he actually did it.