Mafia 85 - Murder at the Bus Stop (game over)

[RestFermata]

/confirm

[RestFermata]

Vote: Empking

for voting for a townsperson.

[RestFermata]

Lurkers can't lurk 100% of the time or they'll get replaced. Eventually they will have to post something, and how often and how well could be a scum/town tell. I don't think we'll be forced into lynching someone just because they're lurking. We should involve all people in our discussions, however, and try to encourage everyone to be active in this game.

[RestFermata]

I personally think we should deal with lurkers on an individual basis. But I don't have any qualms about lynching a lurker on principle. Lurking should definitely not be an "out" for anyone.

[RestFermata]

I'm not lurking. I'm going to reread these pages and post after class today.

[RestFermata]

I do not find Sir Tornado scummy at this point, but I am not getting any town tells from him, either. When I have that kind of reaction to someone, it kind of worries me because I usually end up feeling pretty neutral about that player for the rest of the game. So I'll be keeping my eye on him if only for that reason, so he can't wriggle away from my scumdar.

I don't know how al4xz got away with saying this:

Of course. Mega, by doing this, unintentionally or not, you've caused a stir of talking that both allows you to pretend your contributing and lurk in the open at the same time. Though, if it helps, I don't think you're too scummy. But perhaps that's because you're not contributing much. *glares* Whoooo aaarr uuuu? *chuckles*

when al4xz hasn't been contributing much more. All his posts have been about lynching lurkers. I haven't really been a major contributor myself thus far, but I don't want to be hypocritical about it and accuse others of doing the same. People might think I'm...trying to deflect attention onto someone else.

Alabaska J - Nothing yet, but after more posting I'm sure I'll have a stronger opinion. I'm not getting that "strong neutral" feel like I am from ST; I just feel like I don't have enough information yet.

OK AND NOW I HAVE TO GO TO CLASS. That was just a teaser.

[RestFermata]

To continue my analysis on players:

BlakAdder

I see this fellow as sort of a hypocrite. He accuses Sir Tornado of posting a lot without saying much, but he isn't posting a great deal of content, either. The only stuff he had to say before accusing Sir T was a little bit about lynching lurkers, a couple of jabs at Cream, and a brief apology about phrasing something wrong. I definitely flub some things up in Mafia, but I try not to point fingers at others for things that I too am doing. I could see him as scum pretty easily.

Cream147

He's talked a lot of game theory in this particular game, whether it be about Lynch All Liars or [threaten to] Lynch All Lurkers. I think the lurkers discussion is an important one, and I don't associate it with trying to appear active. In a game this size, it's definitely an issue that needs to be discussed. Otherwise scum could make easy work of this town. That said, as I stated before, I believe lurkers should be taken on an individual basis. Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances.

I know, I know, you're scrolling up to the place where I

just

said I hated hypocrites. I'm aware I haven't been so active in this game, but that's because I really have to do an analysis of each player before I can formulate a balanced opinion, and that takes time. Anyone who's played with me (though I've never finished a game so I guess I shouldn't go into specifics) knows that's how I roll. I'm in five games right now, but one of them is coming to a close so it'll be a little easier for me to keep up then.

Yeah, so...Cream. No scum reads here. I don't think he was "wishy-washy," and that's probably because he appears to have a similar stance (non-stance?) on lurkers as me. You can't just lump all lurkers into one category. Mafia games can get pretty complex and you can't oversimplify the issue. Cream hasn't done anything to convince me that he's town, but I'm not reading any scumtells off him.

DynamoXI

Posting that [Moratorium's PbPA] was contributing more than some other players have.

Like you?

Can't get a read off someone who never says anything.

EmpKing

Unvote:

Vote: Cream147

How can you pressure lurkers when you say you don't want to lynch them?

I don't like this post by EmpKing. He seems to be voting for a very weak reason. He doesn't state if or why he thinks Cream's stance is scummy. In fact, he doesn't

state

anything. All he does is ask a question and imply a disagreement. I know I take votes more seriously than most, but past the random voting stage, I think people shouldn't be voting each other just because they aren't carbon copies of one another. I don't see much else from EmpKing. Doesn't seem to have contributed too much. But he's not afraid to accuse others of the same. *sigh* Maybe I should just get over this pet peeve about hypocrisy.

It also doesn't stretch the limits of my imagination to picture EmpKing as scum.

It's getting really late, so once again I'm going to have to continue this another time...probably Friday since Thursday is hell for me.

[RestFermata]

OK! So let's have that discussion!

If x=Slicey, is x scummy or not, Shanba? Explain your answer.

No, that was the point of the "just to annoy Moratorium, Blakadder and the rest" bit.

I'm not Moratorium or Blakadder, but I am the Rest. Stop trying to annoy me, please, and help me out if you can, because I would like to hear your ideas. They could help the town.

[RestFermata]

EBWOP. There's a word for people who don't want to be helpful to the town. I can't think of what it is right now. I believe it starts with an S and ends with an M...

[RestFermata]

Wall-E

is strange. But he has bursts of insight.

[RestFermata]

Yeah, there is absolutely no way to interpret Empking's posts in that way. To be perfectly honest Empking isn't the most confirmed town in my book, meaning that I think he's been pretty hard to read, but there's nothing wrong with not being long-winded and verbose in every post, and there's certainly nothing to suggest that he was ever pushing for anybody's lynch.

I often prefer a concise player. Sometimes I find quick jabs more effective than wordy analyses, though I see the merits in both. That's why I try to incorporate both wordy analyses and one-liners.

I'm not ready to hammer, however. Though I am more or less certain of dishonesty in Slicey's case against Empking, I am afraid this day will feel incomplete if I end it now.

[RestFermata]

EBWOP. I hit submit too soon. I was also going to add that the reason for this is that I feel though the town has made a consensus to take a hardball stance on lurkers in one way or another, we haven't really done so. There are still some players who have contributed next to nothing, or literally nothing (Demon Pineapple). It worries me that we have been "all talk" on this issue.

[RestFermata]

And speaking of being "all talk", before someone accuses me of being "all talk" for not voting for Demon Pineapple, I don't want to deflect attention away from Slicey, whom I do indeed view as scummy, though I also see it as too early to hammer. So I'm going to withhold for now.

[RestFermata]

I am pretty convinced that Slicey is scum, but I really just don't want the day to end until I hear from the people who haven't contributed AYTHING, Surye. These people would be:

Azuma (1 post)
martin413 (2 posts)
killa seven (2 posts, but he's having internet problems to be fair)
ace1217 (0 posts)

I feel that there is still more to learn from this day, and these 4 people can help.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Slicey (12): Wall-E, Shanba, Jebus, armlx, Surye, farside22, Riceballtail, Moratorium, Empking, BlakAdder, Alabaska J, al4xz
Surye (2): Demon Pineapple, Sir Tornado
Empking (2): RestFermata, Slicey
Wall-E (1): Mana_Ku
farside22 (1): martin413
armlx (1): Xtoxm
Xtoxm (1): killa seven

Not voting (5): Azuma, Cream147, Slepz, ace1217, Megatheory

With 25 alive it's 13 to lynch.

[RestFermata]

I didn't catch that, but I still view it as fairly mild. Slicey made it sound like Empking was indiscriminately advocating lynches left and right.

[RestFermata]

I feel that Slicey is the best lynch for D1, for the reasons I stated before. He seems to be making cases out of nothing, something that scum is always forced to do in Mafia. But I agree that no one should hammer. We should definitely wait for the deadline to get the most out of this day. If we could get the lurkers to post before then, it'll be even better.

[RestFermata]

People think his case on Empking is fabricated and not consistent with Empking's actual posts.

[RestFermata]

Who do you find most scummy, xtoxm?

[RestFermata]

Wait, yeah. You said Shanba, that's right, xtoxm. But have you figured out why yet?

[RestFermata]

Probably absent over the weekend. So I'm going to

Unvote

[RestFermata]

In that case,

Vote: Slicey

, not that it makes much difference.

[RestFermata]

Actually I kind of understand where Wall-E is coming from. Surye, why didn't you hop on

the best D1 wagon you'd ever seen?

[RestFermata]

I had taken a quick glance over your posts and I didn't find the vote. Now I see it, though -- Post 26.

[RestFermata]

Xtoxm is just reminding me of xtoxm. He uses his gut a lot. Sometimes he can't explain it to the town adequately.

[RestFermata]

Did you just call meta crap and use meta to semi-clear K7 at the same time, Muerrto?

[RestFermata]

Whatever. You said meta was crap, and then you used meta on K7.

[RestFermata]

I'm sorry for being so useless. It's my first large game and I'm kind of lost. I don't know why you're acting like I'm being a proponent of meta. I'm just calling out what I view as a contradiction. I'm trying to catch up, but it is a little overwhelming. When I noticed that, however, I mentioned it.

As for meta-ing me, go ahead, but I've only finished one game, which I enjoyed immensely, so I posted a lot.

[RestFermata]

What I want to know is, how was K7 lynched by only 8 people when it was 12 to lynch? Am I slow?

[RestFermata]

Oh, duh. I am slow.

[RestFermata]

K7 never claimed, but I don't see how Wall-E saying he did makes him scummy.

[RestFermata]

It was xtoxm, al4xz. K7 never claimed in any way, shape, or form unless it was some cryptic breadcrumb that no one but Wall-E could decipher.

[RestFermata]

I thought xtoxm was more joking than lying. I didn't really take the so-called softclaim seriously at the time, though I guess since people are paying attention to it I suppose it's possible that he wasn't joking, or was only half-joking. However, if it really wasn't serious, I find it scummy that he isn't coming out and saying it after his comment got so much attention. However, I can't know one way or another, and I'm not sure I want to ask at this point.

[RestFermata]

Wall-E does stuff like this all the time. It doesn't really surprise me. I'm going to have to keep an eye on it just because you shouldn't let things go just based on playstyle. Al4xz looks much more suspicious at this point, not because he gave Wall-E an out, but because he is ambiguously for and against Wall-E.

[RestFermata]

No, not without referring to ongoing games.

[RestFermata]

I agree with armlx. Wall-E's post was really weird, but I don't see how it points to him being scum.

[RestFermata]

That's not WIFOM at all. Your throwing that term around when it doesn't even apply is very suspicious.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Wall-E (4): Alabaska J, Muerrto, BlakAdder, al4xz
Surye (2): springlullaby, Riceballtail
al4xz (3): kuribo, armlx, Wall-E
Alabaska J (1): Jebus
kuribo (1): Xtoxm
Jebus (1): farside22

Not voting (7): Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Slepz, Zazier, Cream147, Surye

With 19 alive it's 10 to lynch.

[RestFermata]

God. Wall-E keeps making things worse and worse for himself. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, but seriously. "I would never do that for reals"?! You didn't sound so shocked and appalled at yourself when you thought it happened "for reals." But it's been said before.

Still finding al4xz alarmingly indecisive, though. And tossing around terms you don't understand makes you sound like you're trying to negate people's arguments without even trying. Shame on you. Of the two players in the limelight right now, you're the one who's going to get my vote.

Vote: al4xz

[RestFermata]

Don't get your panties in a wad, al4xz. It's a game.

[RestFermata]

When you use crap logic, (as in attempting to disregard someone's argument as WIFOM when it is not in fact WIFOM) expect to be called out on it, even if you didn't mean to do it. That's the way the game works.

I'm new, too. Maybe when I act scummy, it's just because I'm inexperienced, but if I was able to say "Hey, stop picking on me; I'm new!" and everyone dropped it, that'd be really convenient for me as scum, wouldn't it?

[RestFermata]

Not cussing us out any more for suspecting you, Al4xz?

[RestFermata]

Your "it was a mistake" is not nearly specific enough. I'm pretty sure he wants to know how it was a SCUM slip, not just a REGULAR MISTAKE.

[RestFermata]

Unvote

Not lynching the claimed cop. I have a history test tomorrow, so that's about all I have time for, sorry.

[RestFermata]

I believe armlx's claim. Seems believable, especially given that his results check out with his behavior. I also believe that SL is a bus driver; however, she herself has noted that there is the possibility of an anti-town bus driver, so I'm not going to clear her just based on that. I agree with Surye's plan, which actually makes him look rather pro-town to me at the moment even though the investigation results have not cleared him. His plan gives minimal information to scum. I would vote Cream right now, but I'm not sure where he's at right now and I definitely want SL to have fair warning to send in her night action, like she said.

[RestFermata]

Hey, I'm sorry for lurking (in this game I've been doing it quite a bit.) I'll post when I am able but I have a piano competition tomorrow so I'm going to be kind of busy.

[RestFermata]

I've already asked for replacement. I was lurking because I couldn't keep up with the game and kept procrastinating. Now that I'm going to be replaced, I don't feel the need to make the effort to catch up. Sorry.

End of Day 4 Votecount:
farside22 (2): armlx, Jebus
Jebus (1): farside22

Not voting (9): Gremwell, Netlava, Zazier, RestFermata, kuribo, Riceballtail, ThAdmiral, Surye, BlakAdder

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

[RestFermata]

I still haven't been replaced in this game? :\ Holy crap, I'm sorry guys if I've messed up this game. It's just that large games aren't for me. I'm struggling in the other one I'm in now too. I didn't mean to undermine this game.