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[Datisi]

(If Dats is scum Icon immediately becomes one of my strongest town reads due to his "If I was scum that would be an easy spot to park my vote" implies Icon-town in a way that isnt typically the way town approaches the game)

i never said that? like i said the exact opposite, even if i were scum, i sure as hell wouldn't park my vote on ico for the reasoning i'd provided, because that all but locks me into a 1v1 with him for the rest of the game.

[LlamaFluff]

(If Dats is scum Icon immediately becomes one of my strongest town reads due to his "If I was scum that would be an easy spot to park my vote" implies Icon-town in a way that isnt typically the way town approaches the game)

i never said that? like i said the exact opposite, even if i were scum, i sure as hell wouldn't park my vote on ico for the reasoning i'd provided, because that all but locks me into a 1v1 with him for the rest of the game.

Sorry. Reading that back I decided to just really warp that one in my head somehow. I think it still ultimately doesnt impact if you are scum Icon is town though, and actually might even strengthen that.

[Datisi]

and actually might even strengthen that.

could you eli5? i didn't really get how you're getting to ico!town from scum!me originally, and don't quite get it here either.

[Infinity 324]

you're flawless

Aww

[Anya]

VOTE: Datisi

you're not 5

[LlamaFluff]

and actually might even strengthen that.

could you eli5? i didn't really get how you're getting to ico!town from scum!me originally, and don't quite get it here either.

You are using a term I dont understand again so im going to guess on what you are saying...

its unnecessarily complicating things to not coast on icons wagon, for scum!you that is

i never voted ico. also, if scum!me decided to ~coast~ on ico's wagon here with the reasoning i've already given, ico'd probably see that as close to a scumclaim from me, and while he is generally suspected right now, trust me that is a 1v1 scum!me has NO desire to start

If you are scum I think this whole thing make Icon town. First it immediately implies that if you are scum, you would not be voting Icon out the gate to me in a way that seems to concentrate not on reads but instead the reaction of Icon, which you say would turn him against you. Being afraid of voting another player, who has a wagon forming on them, who you have been in conflict with and seemed to read as scum, because you think they will target you, to me reads as how scum would approach a wagon. Concentrating more and being concerned about reactions rather than reads. The response to EZ seems to me if you were town would be "I am not on Icon because of X reads" and not more of "I am not on Icon because he would see it as a scumclaim from me".

Maybe im complicating it, but what I read your thought process there feels like what I would take as scum if I was afraid a vote would put heat on me. As opposed to town which is "Im not voting them here because of <other read>" or "If they vote me who cares, they still are scum".

[Infinity 324]

Datisi are you scum?

[OutWorldER]

fair warning I'm not going to be able to reply to anything after this because my head is pounding and I'm gonna pass out after posting this and something else in another thread.

anyways VOTE: Samantha

@OW - You say the wagon of Icon is because of "Town looking at a bad case"... what does that mean with respect to players voting Icon?

I think most of the players voting Ico (with exception of Samantha) are town voting town because Ico's pushes and points against both Rathe and Datisi were rather ill-founded and in somewhat poor faith. It's understandable that they vote that but I personally think Ico's stuff there had very little agenda behind it. The exception being Samantha who's vote and subsequent interaction looked very much like opportunistic scum.

[samantha97]

I think most of the players voting Ico (with exception of Samantha) are town voting town

Spoiler: by satan's edict

I'm town voting mafia

[Rathe]

i think people who r thinking r town so datisi luca anya mom

Explain why Anya is on this list? I find her impossible to read.

sorry i missed this
anya was one of the players who understood what i meant when i said what i said about llamafluff

[Rathe]

i know it can be faked but i find mafia is dumb or acts dumb

[Rathe]

it didnt seem that hard to understand

[Rathe]

im gonna keep my vote where it is right now cuz i think samanatha might be the scum on iconeum

[Rathe]

i dont know about outworlder right now

[Rathe]

oh i see samantha is on outworlder now

[Rathe]

i dont think it changes anything for me

[LlamaFluff]

fair warning I'm not going to be able to reply to anything after this because my head is pounding and I'm gonna pass out after posting this and something else in another thread.

anyways VOTE: Samantha

@OW - You say the wagon of Icon is because of "Town looking at a bad case"... what does that mean with respect to players voting Icon?

I think most of the players voting Ico (with exception of Samantha) are town voting town because Ico's pushes and points against both Rathe and Datisi were rather ill-founded and in somewhat poor faith. It's understandable that they vote that but I personally think Ico's stuff there had very little agenda behind it. The exception being Samantha who's vote and subsequent interaction looked very much like opportunistic scum.

So is it right to say that you are operating primarily based on town reads and not scum reads?

[samantha97]

nothing has been posted for an interestingly long time

[OutWorldER]

fair warning I'm not going to be able to reply to anything after this because my head is pounding and I'm gonna pass out after posting this and something else in another thread.

anyways VOTE: Samantha

@OW - You say the wagon of Icon is because of "Town looking at a bad case"... what does that mean with respect to players voting Icon?

I think most of the players voting Ico (with exception of Samantha) are town voting town because Ico's pushes and points against both Rathe and Datisi were rather ill-founded and in somewhat poor faith. It's understandable that they vote that but I personally think Ico's stuff there had very little agenda behind it. The exception being Samantha who's vote and subsequent interaction looked very much like opportunistic scum.

So is it right to say that you are operating primarily based on town reads and not scum reads?

Yeah, I'd call that a fair assessment at this point in time.

[Datisi]

and actually might even strengthen that.

could you eli5? i didn't really get how you're getting to ico!town from scum!me originally, and don't quite get it here either.

You are using a term I dont understand again so im going to guess on what you are saying...

its unnecessarily complicating things to not coast on icons wagon, for scum!you that is

i never voted ico. also, if scum!me decided to ~coast~ on ico's wagon here with the reasoning i've already given, ico'd probably see that as close to a scumclaim from me, and while he is generally suspected right now, trust me that is a 1v1 scum!me has NO desire to start

If you are scum I think this whole thing make Icon town. First it immediately implies that if you are scum, you would not be voting Icon out the gate to me in a way that seems to concentrate not on reads but instead the reaction of Icon, which you say would turn him against you. Being afraid of voting another player, who has a wagon forming on them, who you have been in conflict with and seemed to read as scum, because you think they will target you, to me reads as how scum would approach a wagon. Concentrating more and being concerned about reactions rather than reads. The response to EZ seems to me if you were town would be "I am not on Icon because of X reads" and not more of "I am not on Icon because he would see it as a scumclaim from me".

Maybe im complicating it, but what I read your thought process there feels like what I would take as scum if I was afraid a vote would put heat on me. As opposed to town which is "Im not voting them here because of <other read>" or "If they vote me who cares, they still are scum".

eli5 means explain like i'm 5. googling terms you don't understand is a good way to find out what said terms mean.

not sure if we understand each other (i could be misreading your response here as well), so i'll clarify.

i am not voting iconeum because i think he's town.

i said this back at the bottom of 434. also i never read him as scum this game, me "being in conflict" with him does not equal a scumread. (there's a *lot* of history here.)

my conversation with zoomer there was started because of this part of 497:

datisi - his reactions to icon pushing rathe were very genuine and his motivations seem townie,

don't see scum!datisi being the white knight for icon

this is a bad reason to townread me. in this universe, where i am town, i am not voting iconeum because i townread him. he's saying he thought scum!me would be voting him / on his wagon because it's easy. i'm saying no,

if i were scum

, i would not be voting iconeum either, because i'm decently sure scum!me would end up getting killed for doing that. since the start, the whole conversation with zoomer was built on the premise of "if i were scum here". that's why my responses to zoomer are talking from scum!me's perspective.

does this *actually* imply town!icon if i flip scum? i guess i can see how someone from the outside might think that. but also /shrug i'm town so.

[LlamaFluff]

not sure if we understand each other (i could be misreading your response here as well), so i'll clarify.

i am not voting iconeum because i think he's town.

i said this back at the bottom of 434. also i never read him as scum this game, me "being in conflict" with him does not equal a scumread. (there's a *lot* of history here.)

my conversation with zoomer there was started because of this part of 497:

datisi - his reactions to icon pushing rathe were very genuine and his motivations seem townie,

don't see scum!datisi being the white knight for icon

this is a bad reason to townread me. in this universe, where i am town, i am not voting iconeum because i townread him. he's saying he thought scum!me would be voting him / on his wagon because it's easy. i'm saying no,

if i were scum

, i would not be voting iconeum either, because i'm decently sure scum!me would end up getting killed for doing that. since the start, the whole conversation with zoomer was built on the premise of "if i were scum here". that's why my responses to zoomer are talking from scum!me's perspective.

does this *actually* imply town!icon if i flip scum? i guess i can see how someone from the outside might think that. but also /shrug i'm town so.

It might be that we have different ways of approaching the game. If it was very unclear of your read of Icon your response makes a little bit more sense, but with what you noted and the fact that you voted Umulat over Icon means that isnt an unknown. Basically yes, it is clear you have Icon as town. Usually when I get pushed into having to approach things from a "what would I have done as scum" scenario I need to go back and read again because I dont know and am not thinking about it, and its very hard to just naturally inject that into a conversation because it involves building up an entirely new thought process. It also is just primarily a lot of WIFOM

Maybe the oddest part is that you even cared much about being town read and thats throwing me off. If someone does that to me for reasons I think arent the best I note it, but unless I feel they have scum-motivations for that move really wont react much because if im being town read, worst case its scum giving up a little bit of power to me. Again I think it loops back to more of our initial back and forth, where addressing this to me is "you are wrong because my reads dont back that up, even as scum why would I do that" as opposed to you are taking more of a "you are wrong because here is my scum thought process" which is far more unnatural to me.

I think this is just getting into a theory argument though over something that doesnt make much sense because if you are scum, this is just going to be a headache for everyone else to go through if you go and Icon is alive.

[Datisi]

Usually when I get pushed into having to approach things from a "what would I have done as scum" scenario I need to go back and read again because I dont know and am not thinking about it, and its very hard to just naturally inject that into a conversation because it involves building up an entirely new thought process.

i've had the misfortune of playing scum against towncounem 6 times in the last ~9 months. at this point, "how to play around town!ico" is basically second nature to me.

though i agree this is getting into not-very-useful theory. ready to reveal your read on outworld?

[Infinity 324]

Datisi are you scum?

[Datisi]

no

[Datisi]

infinity, were you expecting to actually get anything from my answer?