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[Andresvmb]

Alright I’m probably going to sleep soon. My intent still stands, so I expect Umlaut to claim when they get back.

[Andresvmb]

Only other option is Umulat is scum and rest of scum have no ability to influence what is happening, which D1 just is really unlikely.

I wouldn’t entirely discount the fact that Scum are feeling forced to bus their Partner and can’t find a good excuse to get off. But I can understand why you feel skepticism based on the fact that you don’t feel a lot of resistance to an execution. I would argue that OutWorldER being pushed somewhat aggressively after Umlaut begins to get closer and closer to execution is a form of resistance.

[Andresvmb]

But frankly trying to differentiate which one of Umlaut and OutWorldER is Town or Scum is actually hard given that they’re both low content slots that appear to be either busy or disinterested. My main argument to deciding on Umlaut was mostly wagon composition, not the slot per se to be totally honest.

[Andresvmb]

I haven't posted because I literally haven't felt like it. I took two games and a modded game while also having to deal with situating my brother since he just moved in with us.

I'm really disengaged from this game and finding it hard to pay attention :/

I was asked a while ago for a read on OutWorldER. Supposed to be working now but I'm going to at least run an ISO on him tonight, if I don't make a post about it then kindly yell at me.

Having said that, I find myself feeling like Town is more likely to post the first one and not the second one. Promises to do work that go unfulfilled make me lean more negative that blatant admissions that they just haven’t felt like posting at all.

[LlamaFluff]

Only other option is Umulat is scum and rest of scum have no ability to influence what is happening, which D1 just is really unlikely.

I wouldn’t entirely discount the fact that Scum are feeling forced to bus their Partner and can’t find a good excuse to get off. But I can understand why you feel skepticism based on the fact that you don’t feel a lot of resistance to an execution. I would argue that OutWorldER being pushed somewhat aggressively after Umlaut begins to get closer and closer to execution is a form of resistance.

Thats also where my town read of OW comes in. I know im town so that just increases on my read that the Umulat wagon feels wrong unless scum is actually fine with a Umulat vote and is trying to use me to distract a bit by calling OW town. I just dont see scum bussing and there being basically zero alternative presented. Even if town is the one presenting the alternatives it seems too easy. If everyone is varying levels of fine with a push that usually means the push is bad. This just feels like a trap where everyone says "X is a decent pick" and then it ends up happening but flips town and everyone just spreads out the blame because thats what the consensus read was.

[Andresvmb]

Is it too easy with no resistance though? I feel like you might be discounting all of the soft pushing that Luca is doing for OW and against Umlaut for example. Or the fact that esotericzoomer came out to say that they dislike both wagons and want Iconeum instead (who lean more Town to me than Umlaut). I thought those were interesting developments on the side.

I can’t really say with any real certainty what Umlaut is going to flip to tell you the truth. But I also think that you haven’t really seen warring factions compromise here in a way that would suggest that the compromise is bad. At least not like I’ve seen in other games. But I grant you that there’s nothing that screams Scum about Umlaut either.

[LlamaFluff]

Is it too easy with no resistance though? I feel like you might be discounting all of the soft pushing that Luca is doing for OW and against Umlaut for example. Or the fact that esotericzoomer came out to say that they dislike both wagons and want Iconeum instead (who lean more Town to me than Umlaut). I thought those were interesting developments on the side.

Part of it probably is I know im town and have been the biggest anti-OW force. I know it wont ring true to everyone as me is I, but if town is shutting down the best chance of a counter thats something im taking into account

I can’t really say with any real certainty what Umlaut is going to flip to tell you the truth. But I also think that you haven’t really seen warring factions compromise here in a way that would suggest that the compromise is bad. At least not like I’ve seen in other games. But I grant you that there’s nothing that screams Scum about Umlaut either.

Are we saying the same thing with different conclusions? Apart from Umulat... who is likely to have been near picked off today? OW? Icon early? Obviously its not infallible, but im really uncomfortable when the biggest pushes against a wagon are people who are more not thrilled with it, but making no attempt to break it apart or provide a viable alternative. Unless stuff has really changed in the last few years, to me its a bit of a town tell the way things are currently breaking down.

[Andresvmb]

My alternative is not getting executed today, and since they seem to be pushing for a way to defend Umlaut, I’m okay trying to see what happens I guess is how I would summarize my position. And unless Umlaut really picks it up, I am less offended by executions of marginal slots. To be honest, I don’t want to let people just skate by this game, leaving these really hard to sort players for later with much more at stake.

[LlamaFluff]

My alternative is not getting executed today, and since they seem to be pushing for a way to defend Umlaut, I’m okay trying to see what happens I guess is how I would summarize my position.

Who is "They"

[Luca Blight]

I was pushing Outworld before Umlaut was even a wagon, so don't be making out like I'm doing it for the purpose of protecting Umlaut

And also has it not crossed your mind that fmpov there is 0 resistance to this wagon? If Umlaut is scum and Outworld town then you'd think there'd be a little more interest there

[Andresvmb]

My alternative is not getting executed today, and since they seem to be pushing for a way to defend Umlaut, I’m okay trying to see what happens I guess is how I would summarize my position.

Who is "They"

It’s not obvious from the back and forth I just had with Luca? Hahaha well, Luca would be my preferred alternative. But there’s a few things - they could be right about Datisi (and I could just have a bad read there, which skews my whole universe), and I know from experience that Luca can have a very positive impact on a game. So I want to see that develop a little more.

[Andresvmb]

And also has it not crossed your mind that fmpov there is 0 resistance to this wagon? If Umlaut is scum and Outworld town then you'd think there'd be a little more interest there

I have made my views clear on both slots. I can’t say with any sort of conviction that either flips Scum. But I do have some TRs I’ve expressed and they’re mostly leaning on voting for Umlaut so I’m okay with it. I don’t know what else you want me to say.

[Luca Blight]

My point was that you're trying to make out that I'm protecting Umlaut by pushing Outworld, when I was pushing Outworld before Umlaut was even a wagon

[LlamaFluff]

And also has it not crossed your mind that fmpov there is 0 resistance to this wagon? If Umlaut is scum and Outworld town then you'd think there'd be a little more interest there

I have made my views clear on both slots. I can’t say with any sort of conviction that either flips Scum. But I do have some TRs I’ve expressed and they’re mostly leaning on voting for Umlaut so I’m okay with it. I don’t know what else you want me to say.

So if Umulat is scum then where is the resistance? Do you think scum are just fine with him going or is this a spot where they cant control it? Thats whats bugging me. It seems very disjointed, and in this spot too easy. Its not a strong town read, but it feels all sorts of wrong.

[Andresvmb]

My point was that you're trying to make out that I'm protecting Umlaut by pushing Outworld, when I was pushing Outworld before Umlaut was even a wagon

Sigh. You’re putting words in my mouth. You are clearly being overly insistent about the OutWorldER read you’ve consistently had as the Umlaut wagon has gained strength, constantly asking players to basically go with your preferred execution. Like it doesn’t always happen that a player gets wagoned, they’re Scum, so their Partners start randomly pushing a new alternative.

I’m not saying that you’re Scum pushing Town the whole time and becoming more insistent about it as your buddy gets closer to an execution btw. There’s a wide range of possible explanations to what we’re seeing. You could be Town pushing Town and defending Scum (or Town), and the Scum Team using that to their advantage to sow division for instance. I’m just not overly offended about flipping Umlaut here. And I can’t say I TR Luca but we do have history so I’m also mindful of that (I know I also have a propensity to SR you so there’s that in the back of my mind).

[LlamaFluff]

@Luca - Can you rank Umulat, Andres and OW from scum to town for me?

[Andresvmb]

Thats whats bugging me. It seems very disjointed, and in this spot too easy. Its not a strong town read, but it feels all sorts of wrong.

Listen I’ve been in exactly your shoes in the two previous games I played before this one. You have that hard to explain feeling that a wagon is developing on Town and you can’t quite point out the Scum but it feels wrong due to the game state. Maybe give another shot at looking at the wagon and explaining who you feel is pushing us in the wrong direction then. As you know I’ve expressed a SR of Anya for instance. I could understand if you’re skeptical because you think that’s a vote coming from Scum or you don’t understand why we’re (potentially) ending on the same wagon after I’ve expressed skepticism there. Do you think you can narrow down what’s causing your viewpoint?

[Luca Blight]

Is it too easy with no resistance though? I feel like you might be discounting all of the soft pushing that Luca is doing for OW and against Umlaut for example.

I'm not putting words in your mouth - that was clearly what you were implying here

And yes, there are a range of possible motivations which was why it irked me that you just highlighted the only negative one and the only one that is convenient to your current stance.

Outworld is my biggest SR and I've been pushing that lim regardless of any other wagons that have come and gone. If I have been pushing it more aggressively then that's because I now have a bit more time to play, as I've said over and over.

[Luca Blight]

@Luca - Can you rank Umulat, Andres and OW from scum to town for me?

Right now it would be Outworld, Umlaut, Andres in order of scum -> town

but I have to review a lot of stuff before I'm sure on my reads as a whole

[Luca Blight]

I should probably stop arguing and start reviewing then, eh?

[Iconeum]

Outworld isn’t really lhf though

look at this post count and content and tell me how he is *not* LHF

[LlamaFluff]

Thats whats bugging me. It seems very disjointed, and in this spot too easy. Its not a strong town read, but it feels all sorts of wrong.

Listen I’ve been in exactly your shoes in the two previous games I played before this one. You have that hard to explain feeling that a wagon is developing on Town and you can’t quite point out the Scum but it feels wrong due to the game state. Maybe give another shot at looking at the wagon and explaining who you feel is pushing us in the wrong direction then. As you know I’ve expressed a SR of Anya for instance. I could understand if you’re skeptical because you think that’s a vote coming from Scum or you don’t understand why we’re (potentially) ending on the same wagon after I’ve expressed skepticism there. Do you think you can narrow down what’s causing your viewpoint?

I dont think there is necessarily malicious intent driving the wagon. I just see it as one of three things happening

1) Umulat is scum - scum in this case are fine with the wagon happening and making little attempt to stop it.

2) Umulat is scum - scum cant actually do anything to stop the wagon. Pretty much means scum is in the slots not on him that no one really cares about what they think

3) Umulat is town - scum are fine with this happening because they arent trying to stop it (or trying to use it against us D2)

I dont think Umulat is obviously town, I have my town group which is pretty obviously at this point. The fact that no one is trying to stop this wagon, and the biggest push against a counter is probably me, makes me completely cut out case 1. Which means scum is either fine with what is happening, or this is town. Both of those to me are thing where shaking things up at worst just will provide more information. Only problem is I dont think there is a way to shake it up because reads outside of Umulat for those not on him as so scattered, which make me loop back into scenario 3. It just feels like he will flip town based on how everything has happened. The longer this goes on the more likely it is im going to be goaded into defending him arent I?

[Iconeum]

If i hit 200 posts before anyone hits 100, i win the game yeah

Iconeum: 199 posts
Anya: 99 posts

The suspense is killing me

fuck i probably missed it then

FUCK

[Iconeum]

that is actually amazing if that was true, luca

[Luca Blight]

Outworld isn’t really lhf though

look at this post count and content and tell me how he is *not* LHF

His content has *looked* townie on the surface - you even thought so yourself, remember?

Low post count in of itself doesn't really make someone lhf. It seems to you that he's lhf because I've been on his case and he's been avoiding the conflict