newbie 2060: creatures, game ofer

[schadd_]

Spoiler:

vote count 2.1

Demainer (2):

Saudade, Lukewarm

not voting (5):

Demainer, Clasko, endlessdark, Ivyeo, Egix96

with 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate a player. day 2 ends april 16th at 3:30 central US time; in (expired on 2021-04-16 03:30:00)

mod notes

• prodding ivyeo, demainer, saudade . . .

[/area]

[Saudade]

I mean theres almost no content since I've last posted, the guy I voted havent replied to anything so idk whats the prod for

[Saudade]

prod endless dark too wtf

[Demainer]

If you're scumreading me for apologizing to Wheme, then so be it, it's your choice. I was convinced our scum team was Wheme + Clasko, but with Wheme flipping town I've gone back to the drawing board and re-iso'd everyone.


Lukewarm: Wheme's flip hardspews Luke as town, this is the most certain read I have so far. It's possible that Luke went for an extended scum play, but I feel that's highly unlikely given the stage at which Luke spewed.

Clasko: I went into the D1 flip thinking he was lockscum, but now I've re-iso'd him he comes off as town. It's only a lean though. His "slip" on me and Wheme does not read scum to me now, and his D2 activity has been giving me good vibes as well, I see someone trying to figure things out rather than trying to force town into a conclusion.

Saudade: I can't read him. Most of the posts are one-liners, and in the ones that do offer some insight into his position on other players, it's mostly just vomiting reads without much of an explanation. Having said that, I do get the feeling that he's genuinely trying to get a read on other folks, and I don't see any kind of tmi posting (again, could just be that he's good at hiding it), so I'm very slightly leaning town here, though I'd be more comfortable with a null read.

endlessdark: Null for me. Not getting any scum pings here, but also not seeing any evidence that they're town.

Egix96: The only thing I have to say here is that he's gone after both of my current town reads/leans, and his reaction to Ahri's death seems forced. Lean scum for me.

Ivyeo: I'm hard leaning scum on this one, her entire D1 iso is essentially fossing everyone without truly committing to any sort of read (and when asked to provide them, hid behind the "I'm bad at it, don't want to lose us the game" excuse which hardly holds, you either have them or you don't). Her single D2 post does not read town to me either, at all. There was no way Ahri's death N1 was a "great kill", it was clearly an anti-spew play (which is also why I'm considering whether we have an SE in the scum team). Simply another post that doesn't contribute any sort of hard info on the game.

[Demainer]

VOTE: Ivyeo

[schadd_]

oh oops endlessdark should have been prodded as well

[Lukewarm]

Okay, I read the thread back from the beginning, and here are my reads for everyone in the game, in order from most maf lean to most town lean. I was honestly really back and forth on which to place at the top between these two, so I will say they are tied at the top.

Scum leans:
Clasko / Demainer

Neutral reads, could go either way:
Ivyeo
Saudade

Town lean:
Endlessdark

Strong town lean:
Egix96

Me (obviously lol)

[Ivyeo]

Ivyeo:\Her single D2 post does not read town to me either, at all. There was no way Ahri's death N1 was a "great kill", it was clearly an anti-spew play (which is also why I'm considering whether we have an SE in the scum team). Simply another post that doesn't contribute any sort of hard info on the game.

How was Ahri not a good kill for town? Not only was she a VT, but she was someone with plenty of suspicion on her.

[Egix96]

Egix96: The only thing I have to say here is that he's gone after both of my current town reads/leans, and his reaction to Ahri's death seems forced. Lean scum for me.

I think Luke is town overall though (just noticed I meant to say "the strongest" in my prev post, oof), it's just that I found that other quote a bit questionable (there was also the three scumreads thing, yeah).

As for the night kill, my immediate thoughts were just going from "What, why would she be the kill?" to "lol, scum really did that?" to "Hmm wait, maybe that was a galaxy brain calculated move."

So yeah, if I had to make something from it, it probably doesn't come from someone with an intermediate level of experience. It's either 0 IQ or 200 IQ.

[Demainer]

Ivyeo:\Her single D2 post does not read town to me either, at all. There was no way Ahri's death N1 was a "great kill", it was clearly an anti-spew play (which is also why I'm considering whether we have an SE in the scum team). Simply another post that doesn't contribute any sort of hard info on the game.

How was Ahri not a good kill for town? Not only was she a VT, but she was someone with plenty of suspicion on her.

No one voted for her because they thought she was scum. Everyone made it clear that it was a vote for inactivity. And some even townread her for not posting.

Instead of continuing on a tangent and avoiding the discussion today, why not actually share your thoughts on other people?

[Clasko]

Lukewarm: Wheme's flip hardspews Luke as town, this is the most certain read I have so far. It's possible that Luke went for an extended scum play, but I feel that's highly unlikely given the stage at which Luke spewed.

What does "spewed" mean, here? Can you, or someone, elaborate? I've never heard of that term in a Mafia game.

I don't think I expressed my opinion as well as I could have in that post.

I have to take

some

responsibility for this, I suppose, since I could have made my point(s) clearer, and I've definitely had "weird" opinions and posts. I'm not going to apologise or anything because it's all a part of the learning process and people are fine to interpret what I say however they like.

Your posts were mainly about WhemeStar on D1, but do you guys get any town vibes from anyone in this game? If so, for what reason(s)?

Still waiting on Ivy & endless.
Thanks to the three who responded.

I'm gonna take some time later to review my own earlier read list, which is incredibly out of date, upon writing this. Will be back soon~

[Lukewarm]

No one voted for her because they thought she was scum. Everyone made it clear that it was a vote for inactivity. And some even townread her for not posting.

Instead of continuing on a tangent and avoiding the discussion today, why not actually share your thoughts on other people?

Analyzing the mafia kill from the night before is definitely a valid topic for discussion, not sure what you're going on about tbh. - I feel like Ahri being killed off by scum (and flipping vanilla town) was better for town then if the scum had just shot randomly. Which does make me curious why they targeted her.

Spoiler:

My thoughts on the worst to best targets for town, it breaks down to:

• Worst
  
  *A town power role
  *Someone that was being widely town read
  *Someone who was being neutrally read, but was being helpful in a building conversations / scum hunting
  *Ahri (neutrally read, but not helping scum hunt)
  *Someone who was being scum read
  
  Best

It's either 0 IQ or 200 IQ.

That I can agree with. So I looked back, and am trying to analyze why they would have targeted Ahri, and these are my theories.

1) They thought she was a power role

Spoiler:

probably because of this line:

not a pr soft don't read into it

2) They were both on the Wheme's wagon.

Spoiler:

I made the claim that I thought that both mafia were on the same wagon, voting against which ever of Ahri/Wheme were town. Meaning the moment Wheme flipped town, I would have focused my investigations on Wheme's wagon. Both flipping town throws a wrench into that, and would open suspicion back up to both wagons.

I have no way to know what logic they actually used, but for me, this is a +1 on my mafia scale for everyone on Wheme's wagon. That is not enough to change anyone's tier for me, so my prior tier (306), and my vote on demainer still stands.

[schadd_]

replacing saudade by request

[Egix96]

The two I'm most sure I can call town are Luke and Saud (now Saud-slot, rip). That's mainly because I think they have the overall best thought processes in the thread.

After that is where things get harder to figure out for me.

Ivyeo and Demain are unlikely to be SvS based on interactions with each other (e.g. 225) but they don't have enough individual town equity for me to put either of them in the above tier. For Demain, it's because of (see 297), though I still feel like he's had town feels elsewhere.

In the case of Ivyeo, the main issue I now have with her is that posts 142 and 211 are essentially re-stating a post that was recent at the time, which suggests to me that she's scum who's having trouble forming original posts.

Endlessdark is hard to assess. post 115 and post 230 are diplomatic in a way that feels unnatural, but at the same time he's in the sweet-spot of people who wouldn't kill Ahri, based on his "sample size of 1" statements.

Clasko's posting this Day is an improvement, yeah, but post 250 sticks out like a sore thumb as someone knowing that they're in no danger of dying and that they only need to contribute the bare minimum to see out the end of the Day.

[Egix96]

VOTE: Ivyeo

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Egix96]

Clasko: I went into the D1 flip thinking he was lockscum, but now I've re-iso'd him he comes off as town. It's only a lean though. His "slip" on me and Wheme does not read scum to me now, and his D2 activity has been giving me good vibes as well, I see someone trying to figure things out rather than trying to force town into a conclusion.

Which post was the "slip"? I thought I would notice it when I finished re-reading, but I didn't.

[Demainer]

Lukewarm: Wheme's flip hardspews Luke as town, this is the most certain read I have so far. It's possible that Luke went for an extended scum play, but I feel that's highly unlikely given the stage at which Luke spewed.

What does "spewed" mean, here? Can you, or someone, elaborate? I've never heard of that term in a Mafia game.

The identification of alignments based on posts in the thread, in its simplest sense. My point is that Lukewarm can be cleared as town based on the approach of his posts towards Wheme on D1.

And Ahri was selected as the scum kill because she was largely ignored in the thread, no one had any "reason" to take her out. We can't get anything from her death/flip.

[Lukewarm]

Clasko: I went into the D1 flip thinking he was lockscum, but now I've re-iso'd him he comes off as town. It's only a lean though. His "slip" on me and Wheme does not read scum to me now, and his D2 activity has been giving me good vibes as well, I see someone trying to figure things out rather than trying to force town into a conclusion.

Which post was the "slip"? I thought I would notice it when I finished re-reading, but I didn't.

He was probably referencing 86 where Clasko town read both wheme and demainer, something that I pointed out did not make sense to me (he has later tried to clear this up). During Day 1, it seemed like Clasko was using faulty logic to clear both Wheme and Demainer, which in turn made me suspicious that he was covering for his partner. From my pov, it can still be that Clasko was trying to cover for Demainer.

But from Demainer's point of view he would have no reason to be suspicious of Clasko for clearing both of them, because he would now know that both were clear after Wheme flipped town.

[Lukewarm]

And Ahri was selected as the scum kill because she was largely ignored in the thread, no one had any "reason" to take her out. We can't get anything from her death/flip.

Uhhhh. That is not really true at all. Limited posting can very much indicate that someone is scum because they are scared they might slip up if they post too much. And I have seen people meme being scum, while actually being scum, as a way to avoid being voted out. I was really on the fence on Ahri's alignment. Just because you (apparently) held no suspicion towards her, does not mean that no one else did.

I definitely gained information when she flipped. So your certainty that we gained nothing when Ahri flipped makes me even more suspicious of you, because scum would have already known her alignment.

And you trying to talk people out of analyzing the mafia's night kill isn't helping that perception either.

[Demainer]

I'm trying to explain my thoughts on how scum approached the kill last night.

I don't think going after Ahri for the anti-spew was very successful, since it clears you as town (hence why I said you were hardspewed as town). But, it does limit the damage that can potentially be caused by killing someone with more posts in the thread.

[Demainer]

And you trying to talk people out of analyzing the mafia's night kill isn't helping that perception either.

Please point to where I've asked someone to stop analyzing mafia's night kill last night.

[endlessdark]

Guys I'm so sorry, life has gotten in the way a bit and so I was inactive. I'll go through the content and give you my thoughts.

[Demainer]

For reference, here is the entirety of Ivyeo's activity today:

That's a great kill for town no?

How was Ahri not a good kill for town? Not only was she a VT, but she was someone with plenty of suspicion on her.

[Lukewarm]

And you trying to talk people out of analyzing the mafia's night kill isn't helping that perception either.

Please point to where I've asked someone to stop analyzing mafia's night kill last night.

Here is where you first called talking about Ahri being targeted as a "tangent"

No one voted for her because they thought she was scum. Everyone made it clear that it was a vote for inactivity. And some even townread her for not posting.

Instead of continuing on a tangent and avoiding the discussion today, why not actually share your thoughts on other people?

[Demainer]

Emphasis on "why not actually share your thoughts on other people".

There's not much I can say if you can't see that the three sentences Ivyeo's posted in 4 days somehow all relate to Ahri and nothing else. No reads on other players. No discussion on what we should do today. No discussion on Wheme. Just Ahri.

And nothing substantial either. It's literally "that's a great kill for town no", followed by "how was Ahri not a good kill for town", then a statement which is verifiably false, as no one said they scumread Ahri after voting for her.

I'm fairly sure I've shared more thoughts on Ahri's flip than Ivyeo has.