Mafia 85 - Murder at the Bus Stop (game over)

[Sir Tornado]

Umm, not necessarily. I don't expect you to try to call someone scummy for a completely null action.

Armlx, when the game starts, each and every person other than myself has an equal chance of being scum from my POV. As the game progresses, their chances either increase or decrease depending on their actions in the game. On page 3, farside22 ranked higher than anyone else (not saying we should lynch farside22 because of that vote by any means though), precisely because no one else had done anything alarming.

This tell is more or less like the last-to-confirm tell. Not entirely reliable, nor lynch-able, but definitely something to look at in the beginning of the game.

Mod edit
Votecount:
fouxdufafa (1): Slicey
Wall-E (2): Mana_Ku, farside22
Cream147 (1): Empking
Empking (1): RestFermata
Slicey (1): Wall-E
Alabaska J (1): fouxdufafa
farside22 (1): martin413
RestFermata (1): Riceballtail
Surye (1): Demon Pineapple
farside22 (1): Sir Tornado
Sir Tornado (2): armlx, Moratorium

Not voting (12): Xtoxm, al4xz, Azuma, Surye, Alabaska J, Shanba, Cream147, Jebus, Slepz, DynamoXI, BlakAdder, Megatheory

[Megatheory]

There is no logical basis behind the idea that I started the lurker discussion to set up my scumpartners as an anti-lurker squad. Setting up a scumteam in this way is suicidal, as once one of them is killed, the others are seriously exposed.

Why is every protown play turned into some kind of ridiculous scum gambit? The doctor claims with two successful protections, so he must be clearing himself and his scumbuddies, right?

If there's anything behind the case on me besides silly paranoia, I'd love to hear it.

[armlx]

On page 3, farside22 ranked higher than anyone else (not saying we should lynch farside22 because of that vote by any means though), precisely because no one else had done anything alarming.

Bus random voting someone is not alarming, hence the reason you voting someone for it being an issue.

Last to confirm isn't even remotely a tell. That's just dumb.

[Sir Tornado]

Bus random voting someone is not alarming, hence the reason you voting someone for it being an issue.

I think you know my view on this pretty well by now. I am not going to repeat myself a million times.

Last to confirm isn't even remotely a tell. That's just dumb.

I agree that this tell isn't universal, and certainly not enough for a lynch, but it is enough to get the game started.

[armlx]

I think you know my view on this pretty well by now. I am not going to repeat myself a million times.

Again, its not a tell.

[Sir Tornado]

Again, its not a tell.

I think you know my view on this pretty well by now. I am not going to repeat myself a million times.

[armlx]

I don't get your view. Explain more why what farside did was even remotely indicative of her being scum.

[Alabaska J]

unvote, vote: farside22

for giving into Sir T.

Also armlx vs. Sir T looks townie v. townie at the moment. Just wanted to say this before it blows up into a full-blown thing and someone gets lynched.

[armlx]

Also armlx vs. Sir T looks townie v. townie at the moment. Just wanted to say this before it blows up into a full-blown thing and someone gets lynched.

Why?

[Alabaska J]

Also armlx vs. Sir T looks townie v. townie at the moment. Just wanted to say this before it blows up into a full-blown thing and someone gets lynched.

Why?

I read Sir T as a townie try to start the game and armlx as a townie going after the closest thing to a possible scumtell (other than farside unvoting).

I really do have a townie read on Sir T right here but it is very early in the game so who knows. I just wanted to say my two cents as we have left the random voting stage, it seems.

[armlx]

I want to hear Sir T's response to my last post before I respond to the above statements.

[Alabaska J]

fair nuff

[Sir Tornado]

I don't get your view. Explain more why what farside did was even remotely indicative of her being scum.

Coming back to the main point about me voting farside22; the only information I had, at that point was that farside22 had voted for xtoxm, in what she called a random vote, during the time xtoxm was away.

Now, if you see the first few pages of most games, you'll notice that there is some sort of interaction directly between person and the person who he has voted on the first page or so. Voting a person who is V/LA avoids that interaction. This is the single most scummy incident on page 3 (heh).

[armlx]

Fair enough.

Unvote

alabaska, what I was waiting to say was I agree with you, assuming Sir T responded with an explanation. I apparently missed it earlier, and while I disagree is scummy, I can see his logic.

[Shanba]

There is no logical basis behind the idea that I started the lurker discussion to set up my scumpartners as an anti-lurker squad. Setting up a scumteam in this way is suicidal, as once one of them is killed, the others are seriously exposed.

Why is every protown play turned into some kind of ridiculous scum gambit? The doctor claims with two successful protections, so he must be clearing himself and his scumbuddies, right?

If there's anything behind the case on me besides silly paranoia, I'd love to hear it.

You're right, but for the wrong reason. It's not the fact that it would be suicidal for any scumgroup (it's not logical to assume that because one scum was anti-lurker, they all were: in fact, in my experience, scum will often have agents on both sides of the discussion and also some avoiding it totally,) but because what you did was not scummy: you set up an interesting meta discussion from a rational pro-town standpoint (that lynching/pressuring lurkers could help town's chances - it's not an unreasonable position to take, even if I am not sold myself,) which helps to break down the random voting stage.

Moratorium's case on Megatheory is conjecture: he has produced one possibility, but has not cited any evidence which gives any validity to his theory. Without any corroborating evidence, his theory is no better than the next theory, and the next theory would be that Mega was proposing it in good faith as a townie. Moratorium says it is a feeling, which is fair enough, I guess, but I'm still not overly happy with it.

Sir T, why did you say you agreed with Moratorium on that?

[RestFermata]

I'm not lurking. I'm going to reread these pages and post after class today.

[Cream147]

@Cream: That's what I'm saying. I'm good with lynching lurkers. You're the one that's being wishy-washy about it.

Oh right, you don't agree with the wishy washiness. Well fair enough, but remember that this is all opinion. I personally think that because town and scum lurk, lynching people solely for lurking is pretty unreliable.

[Xtoxm]

Managed to get internet access a whole week earlier than I was expecting to!

Confirm

[BlakAdder]

Eh, fair enough. I'll

unvote

for now, but I've still got my eye on you.

[Moratorium]

As for Megatheory, I'm actually in agreement with Shanba:

Moratorium's case on Megatheory is conjecture: he has produced one possibility, but has not cited any evidence which gives any validity to his theory. Without any corroborating evidence, his theory is no better than the next theory, and the next theory would be that Mega was proposing it in good faith as a townie. Moratorium says it is a feeling, which is fair enough, I guess, but I'm still not overly happy with it.

...and I wasn't really either, it was too WIFOM. I ended up unvoting and moving on to other more suspicious activity. I still think that it is highly possible that some people took advantage of the circumstances to jump in on the "me too" responses, but "conjecture" is a good word here, I'm willing to let this one go. *glare Megatheory*

As for this:

But what I'd like to know from you at this point, Sir Tornado, is what kind of information you were intending to gather from your line of questioning, particularly that of questioning a random vote.

What kind of information do you want to hide from the town?

You're ignoring my question by responding with a question (more shotgun pellets, I see). Also, and I'm not sure if you've noticed, but you are accusing me of wanting to hide information,

by hiding the information you apparently gathered

. Irony.

I'll answer yours. Hmm, I want the town to know everything so that we can win. Hey, answering direct questions feels great! Everybody's doing it! Come on in, SirT, join the party!

[Sir Tornado]

Sir T, why did you say you agreed with Moratorium on that?

Because, well, I feel strange that the only thing people were doing is discussing what to do with lurkers. Discussing lurkers is a very safe way of playing mafia. Especially when you are an established player. You just establish a meta and harp that line in every game. It really doesn't add anything to the game in particular, and the differences between players on lurker issue are based more on their views on playing mafia rather than their alignment in the game, especially when discussed this early in the game. This makes it a very safe discussion for scum to participate in. They can be seen to contribute without being in danger of revealing their alignment. And, if they are good, they can always produce a few games from their past where they subscribed to the same view when they were town.

You're ignoring my question by responding with a question (more shotgun pellets, I see). Also, and I'm not sure if you've noticed, but you are accusing me of wanting to hide information, by hiding the information you apparently gathered. Irony

That's the way I play, Ok?

[farside22]

unvote, vote: farside22

for giving into Sir T.

Also armlx vs. Sir T looks townie v. townie at the moment. Just wanted to say this before it blows up into a full-blown thing and someone gets lynched.

I didn't give in to Sir T. I read what was said about what voting and even random voting should have a purpose. I usually don't think about random voting meaning anything. But voting for someone even as a random vote who is on V/LA means nothing. Might as well voted for myself.

[Empking]

Why are people not voting?

[armlx]

Vote alabaska

[BlakAdder]

vote: Sir Tornado

He's had a decent number of posts so far, but he's said relatively nothing. Half of your posts are pointless questions that are meant soly to make people look scummy, and the other half are just dodging questions that people have asked you.