Mini Normal 2205: RotITGBSMoD [game over!]

[Datisi]

vote count 3.03

with 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 3 ends in (expired on 2021-05-07 10:00:00).

execution

DkKoba [4]:

Anya, Andresvmb, InsidiousLemons, DkKoba

Anya [1]:

VFP

not voting [4]:

clidd, osuka, PookyTheMagicalBear, Asteria

mod notes

~ one two seven three

flavour

[Andresvmb]

So I guess Pooky is theoretically a Traitor but has less than a random chance of being Scum.

[VFP]

Wait so how do we ever not execute between Asteria and Koba here? What other execution even remotely makes sense? If Koba flips Scum, that’s good, we have a circle of trust of sorts and the Scum is outside. Unless there’s no Traitor and one of the PRs is Scum.

And if both are town?
Thats just 2 mis lims in a row for just believing Lemons.

Funny that scum want that.

[Andresvmb]

We know there’s for sure at least one Scum between {Insidious, Asteria, Koba}, though at most 2, and given the timing of Insidious’ Claim, including the execution of the Gunsmith, I’m going to guess that Claim is less likely to be false though would be genius from Scum.

[VFP]

I think VFP is acting boldly and assertively because they have this to fall back on. But c’mon, Anya? No. That’s absurd. Trying to push it away from Asteria and Koba is blatantly Scummy.

Why wouldn't I push it away if I believe they are town.
Setup wise you're the one lying here for me.

No I was wrong you’re right. You supposedly came back “Vanilla Town”. Which you’ve hard claimed. So no ignore that.

Also I was quick posting, that you're lying would have been to Lemons I didn't see who posted it originally

[Andresvmb]

Wait so how do we ever not execute between Asteria and Koba here? What other execution even remotely makes sense? If Koba flips Scum, that’s good, we have a circle of trust of sorts and the Scum is outside. Unless there’s no Traitor and one of the PRs is Scum.

And if both are town?
Thats just 2 mis lims in a row for just believing Lemons.

Funny that scum want that.

Yes, it’s possible Insidious is lying which would allow for the Scum to potentially push two consecutive mis-executions. But I don’t TR Koba. So I’m not afraid to pull the trigger there to be totally honest with you.

[VFP]

We know there’s for sure at least one Scum between {Insidious, Asteria, Koba}, though at most 2, and given the timing of Insidious’ Claim, including the execution of the Gunsmith, I’m going to guess that Claim is less likely to be false though would be genius from Scum.

Why does it make it false when the claim can get 2 town PRs mis lynched and just win the game?
It's not genius it's pretty basic scum play.

I would have believed it if Pooky wasn't the target. Town Lemons would have targeted somewhere in the doubt, KNOWING that a PR was lying.
Why not check Dk? Scum won't have a weak vig.

Lemons is lying here.

[Andresvmb]

Why does it make it false when the claim can get 2 town PRs mis lynched and just win the game?
It's not genius it's pretty basic scum play.

Well I doubt that Insidious is lying about their actual Role then. So the Scum have a N2 Role Cop, a Mafia Doctor, and a Role Blocker?

[Andresvmb]

I was saying it was genius because I at first put myself in the position that it was a complete fake claim of coming from Scum. But you do have a point that the slot they decided to check is a bad one, particularly since the Gunsmith had already established that Pooky didn’t have a gun. So yes, it’s not a great choice.

[Andresvmb]

of coming from Scum.

*if coming

[VFP]

Why does it make it false when the claim can get 2 town PRs mis lynched and just win the game?
It's not genius it's pretty basic scum play.

Well I doubt that Insidious is lying about their actual Role then. So the Scum have a N2 Role Cop, a Mafia Doctor, and a Role Blocker?

It could easily be a lie.
If Asteria can be lying on checking me as being a VT why can't lemon be lying on Pooky being a VT?
Possible for a traitor to have a rolecop? I'm not sure on minis, never seen it.

There's probably a few examples to why Lemons can be lying.

Anyone just accepting it when doubting the others just look bad.

[Andresvmb]

I was saying it was genius because I at first put myself in the position that it was a complete fake claim of coming from Scum. But you do have a point that the slot they decided to check is a bad one, particularly since the Gunsmith had already established that Pooky didn’t have a gun. So yes, it’s not a great choice.

If anything it’s an entirely safe choice. Because Insidious would presumably know that Pooky has an incredibly high chance of being just Vanilla Town after being found with no gun. And if they’re Traitor they aren’t going to say anything anyway, because they would know that Insidious is lying and therefore highly likely to be Scum.

[Andresvmb]

Possible for a traitor to have a rolecop? I'm not sure on minis, never seen it.

I have definitely seen games with a Scum Rolecop. That wouldn’t surprise me.

[Andresvmb]

I will also grant you that it’s a very specific, convenient claim that likely buries one of the other PRs.

@Koba, I take it you did shoot N2 as well? Who did you target? And why did you decide to still execute T3 despite your read?

[Andresvmb]

UNVOTE:

[Andresvmb]

kinda confused by the push on oranges i'm not seeing it i don't like the andres wagon either so i dunno where i'd vote if people really want to leave all the roles alone to hopefully sort themselves out

t3 for sure actually but no one seems interested in that which makes him even more appealing it's like when they tell you not to step onto the grass so you sprint onto it

I suppose Anya and Insidious make sense together, but then shouldn’t Insidious be the execution here?

[Andresvmb]

@osuka I would appreciate some thoughts from you please.

[Anya]

even if you ignore all the role stuff dkkoba is howling

that self vote doesn't even come with any real emotion or frustration it's just an attempt to sway town

[Anya]

vfp has a paper bag on their head right now but they're right about the lemon check

idk why he targeted Pooky instead of resolving dkkoba or asteria who have already claimed and can be checked

[Andresvmb]

Hm.

I’m going to wait on answers by Koba, some thoughts from osuka, and perhaps some more concrete thoughts from Pooky.

There’s something to be said about the fact that there’s a coordinated attack occurring here that VFP, who we know is Town almost always, seems very skeptical of. Pooky definitely attacked Koba, and Lemons did reach for the worst possible conclusion on Asteria, twisting a statement as a Scum slip when it certainly wasn’t. Insidious’ claim in fact puts great pressure on the Town to execute a PR, but given Asteria’s claim, they probably know it’s likely to be Koba. Which means they also anticipate a 1v1 tomorrow to occur anyway.

[Andresvmb]

Dammit Koba why did you vote T3? You could have fought it harder. You called them Town, convinced me to Unvote.

[InsidiousLemons]

Anya is going to be the best lim here as scum Lemon's makes a claim like that to ensure Anya is safe. Meaning Anya is something important to scum.
I'm thinking Lemons is actually the traitor here.

if i'm the traitor then how do i know who is and isn't important to scum? sure, maybe i'm just a goon, but the fact that you didn't think of this demonstrates that you didn't consider this theory very thoroughly

Can you word this differently I don't understand it?
I read it as how would you know who scum is?
Which doesn't seem like something that you would be asking.

traitor doesn't know who the scum is, right? so how could traitor!lemons be fakeclaiming in order to protect a scum PR?

[InsidiousLemons]

Koba not announcing who they supposedly targeted N2 is also highly suspicious.

this is pretty strong evidence tbh

[InsidiousLemons]

there's very little doubt in my mind that Koba is scum at this point. apologies for the logical fuckery with asteria, i was speedposting at work and didn't give myself time to properly read or think. that's on me.

as i've said, the pooky check was not a great play. it was borne of a strong suspicion that i would be able to identify the mafia doctor. i was wrong and it was a gamble i shouldn't have taken. i don't think this makes me scum

i could believe the play i'm seeing from VFP, although logically inconsistent at times, is coming from a town mindset. not sure i love his insistence on anya being the elim today though. tough to say but i think at this juncture VFP being the real deal is more likely than asteria and VFP being partners, which is the only way VFP could be scum. happy with my vote where it is.

[VFP]

traitor doesn't know who the scum is, right? so how could traitor!lemons be fakeclaiming in order to protect a scum PR?

Standardly they know?
Isn't not knowing the Mafia outside of Normals?