Mini Normal 2205: RotITGBSMoD [game over!]

[VFP]

Normal Guidelines
A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:

is Mafia-aligned

knows the identities of all of the Mafia team

identity is not known by the Mafia team, although they should know a Traitor exists
cannot be recruited to join the rest of the Mafia team, and (unless Bulletproof) is killed if shot
is endgamed if all other Mafia are dead
gives a "guilty" result to Cops, an "innocent" result to Gunsmiths, and a "Traitor" result to Role Cops
If you want a Traitor that cannot be killed by its team, make it a Bulletproof Traitor. (A Traitor that investigates as though they were town is not Normal, because the Godfather role is not Normal.) Roles like this should return full names (e.g. Bulletproof Traitor) to a Role Cop investigating them.

As a Traitor is Mafia-aligned, it counts towards the Mafia's win condition. For example, in the situation of 1 Goon, 1 Traitor and 2 Townies, the game ends in a Mafia win.

So if that was your only argument, I'm not buying it. Try again.

[VFP]

Lemons getting voted off isn't so bad for scum here as a traitor. It's worth the fake claim (Unless they are just a traitor Rolecop).
And I don't believe that Lemon's didn't know this. Going for the "Town slip" approach.

I'm not against a Lemon's lim here as it just shows that I'm right anyway, but scum Lemons makes that claim to save Anya only, to give reason back into the PRs.
As I said, particular posts from yesterday was not from town PR with a gun.

[VFP]

This is scum Anya.

[Andresvmb]

asteria/dkkoba + t3? + bear??

Here’s the thing. This is a fascinating solve by Anya. Don’t you think? It heavily implies that a Traitor is present in the game. By this stage, you have a claim by Andante that there’s 4 guns, Koba is a claimed Weak Vig as per 2032, Andante is a claimed Gunsmith (but not in the solve, as per 1182, 1212), and Asteria is a claimed Neapolitan (2134). With a Mafia Doc, you know that either 2 of Asteria/Koba/Andante is Scum, or 1 is with a Traitor present. But they don’t seem to entertain the alternative at all if I’m not wrong. So if you TR Andante say, wouldn’t you speak about the entire situation, and how it could mean that both Asteria and Koba are Scum together?

[Andresvmb]

As I said, particular posts from yesterday was not from town PR with a gun.

I agree with this actually. They would have forcefully claimed and forced a showdown. I think I would have at that stage. Because there’s too many gun claims including your own and you would have needed to push that instead of letting T3 get executed.

[Andresvmb]

Okay VFP the more I think about it the more I’m coming to your POV.

[DkKoba]

leash rolecop on andres tonight

[Andresvmb]

Roles like this should return full names (e.g. Bulletproof Traitor) to a Role Cop investigating them.

And in fact, a Role Cop that is Town aligned would have a huge incentive to ensure one of the PRs is correct. A Scum Role Cop however wants to find the Traitor. And if Pooky is the Traitor, they are signaling to them that they know.

Okay, how about this for a solve? {Anya, Insidious, Pooky}, with Pooky as the Traitor?

[DkKoba]

do yall really think theres 3 docs bc if 2 prs are real then there is 3 docs
Im one real one therefore there have to be 2 fake pr imo and limming me confirms both of them. At this point ive ruined the gamestate but now we have a cc

Alsk i hammeres t3 out of frustration and bc he slipped into my poe univerae assuming asteria was town

[Andresvmb]

leash rolecop on andres tonight

What does this mean?

[DkKoba]

I called out lemon and now today theyre claiming role cop not on me which is BS

[DkKoba]

leash rolecop on andres tonight

What does this mean?

It means either they clear you or you enter a cc with you both of which are preferable for the gamestate

[Andresvmb]

do yall really think theres 3 docs bc if 2 prs are real then there is 3 docs
Im one real one therefore there have to be 2 fake pr imo and limming me confirms both of them. At this point ive ruined the gamestate but now we have a cc

You need to clarify what this means.

[Andresvmb]

I called out lemon and now today theyre claiming role cop not on me which is BS

Yeah VFP has been arguing this and I think correctly.

[Andresvmb]

Do you mean the Neapolitan should land on me? Is that what you’re saying?

[DkKoba]

3 docs = 4 town pr with gun

As vig i dont think traitor exists.
2 docs means 1 other is real

[Andresvmb]

3 docs = 4 town pr with gun

As vig i dont think traitor exists.
2 docs means 1 other is real

I’m not following - where are all these Doctors coming from?

[DkKoba]

scum have more than 1 doc or a traitor confirmed.

Im not gonna believe that scum have a traitor when a vig exists, prob a mix of multitasking docs and non multitasking so they can all protect eachother

Bc theres a roleblocker, theres 1 scum rb, 2 scum docs imo

[Andresvmb]

scum have more than 1 doc or a traitor confirmed.

Im not gonna believe that scum have a traitor when a vig exists, prob a mix of multitasking docs and non multitasking so they can all protect eachother

Bc theres a roleblocker, theres 1 scum rb, 2 scum docs imo

No I don’t think you have it right. Actions from players clearly point to a situation where a Traitor exists. Think about Pooky’s entrance where they say they rolled Scum. Or their whole schtick about being part of the bad guys trying to execute good guys. Or Insidious’ use of Role Cop on a role they know has no gun.

[Andresvmb]

And then look at Anya’s solve without entertaining the alternative.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

im not really awake but could someone unvote so i have time to think about the mech

thx

[DkKoba]

Like you could easily resolve the cc i had from lemons pov where if theyre town one of me and asteria are confscum instead they just easily commit to forcing both prs from their pov being unclear

[DkKoba]

VOTE: lemon

[VFP]

And in fact, a Role Cop that is Town aligned would have a huge incentive to ensure one of the PRs is correct. A Scum Role Cop however wants to find the Traitor. And if Pooky is the Traitor, they are signaling to them that they know.

Okay, how about this for a solve? {Anya, Insidious, Pooky}, with Pooky as the Traitor?

I don't dislike that idea at all.
It's a plausible situation and gives reason to the claim today.

[DkKoba]

I feel like lemon claimed here so that they could resist my legacy read on them but also in a way that doesn't lock them in a cc with either PR