Mini Normal 2205: RotITGBSMoD [game over!]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also thank you for the chart it's incredibly helpful

Which TPR do you think you are paired with?

[InsidiousLemons]

i'm beginning to convince myself that it is actually koba. as much as i abhor their (koba's) post history, clidd has backed up koba's own assertion that nothing they're doing is outside of their range for either alignment, and i could read much (not all) of koba's frustration as genuine.

n2 rolecop and non-con neo is not an unimaginable combination, but is n2 rolecop + non-con neo + informed gs even strong enough to go toe-to-toe with our hypothetical doctor + goon + traitor roleblocker scumteam, let alone if the roleblocker is a bonafide member of the mafia?

n2 rolecop + n1 detective is even weaker against those scumteams, and regardless i really don't get the sense that salsa is the type of player who would withhold night action info. nonetheless, in D1, salsa does indeed seem suspicious enough of you (1524, 1526, 1534, etc.) that i could believe she investigated you N1.

there's almost nothing to go off of D2 (i.e., after she would have checked you), but does 2489 really strike you as possible from a salsa who

knows

you didn't kill anyone the previous night? and does a salsa with this partially-absolving information on you, who was suspicious enough of you on D1 to emphatically state "you're scum!" (1524), withhold it the next day? it's almost unthinkable. i could see a universe where clidd skimmed salsa's iso for a player she pushed D1 and decided to claim something modest based off of that. the meagre nature of the claim, the safety of claiming an innocent result on an already-conftown player, and the perceived boldness/foolishness of this claim coming from scum could easily be enough to convince clidd to make this play.

but the last reason for me to think that my partner-in-truth is koba (and possibly most the convincing reason, though i leave that question to all of you) is this same thing i keep getting stuck on -- does a setup with a mafia doctor and

no town killing roles

seriously make it into the normal queue? all the claims are out. there's no reason for an unclaimed vig to lie at this point, that i can see. this is kind of an open question, so please tell me if you think it's possible this setup could in fact get past the review process. it just seems so unlikely to me that a setup so bastardly and deceptive would be allowed in a non-open game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

The NRG has a history of trolling the shit out of their players so there is definitely a possibility of a game being run with no town vig and a pre-announced mafia doctor

[InsidiousLemons]

noted, thank you. the rest of the post still stands though, and after writing out my thoughts in full i feel fairly confident that koba is the most likely to be telling the truth

[clidd]

The speculation surrounding Salsa and I was interesting but I still think you are a potential deepwolf.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

primary reviewer: mastina

yea we definitely could be getting wifom'd

Mastina + Datisi = the most Scumsiding ModTeam ever (love you both! <3)

[InsidiousLemons]

@ clidd i think catching this much heat at the start of D3 disqualifies me from that particular classification

but go ahead and say i might be regular ol' scum if you like. after all, process of elimination means the feeling is mutual

@pooky that is a little disappointing but at the end of the day i suppose a play-based solve is more fun and rewarding in the long run than a mechanical one. makes sense that they would opt to leave the possibility for wifom within the setup spec itself

[clidd]

I mean, if you're town, Dk is likely scum, but I'm leaning more you than them.

[InsidiousLemons]

interesting. can you elaborate on what you think makes us not aligned?

[clidd]

Unless there is only one scum between claims.

In that case, you could both be town (and the scumteam would look like Asteria + Osuka + Andres)

pedit: I don't see you two as S | S, but this is a personal interpretation of mine. I feel that the way you talked about them did not strike me as an approach about a scum partner (in the scum!you scenario).

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Clidd who do you think is the TPR in the group of 4 other than yourself?

[InsidiousLemons]

Unless there is only one scum between claims.

In that case, you could both be town (and the scumteam would look like Asteria + Osuka + Andres)

pedit: I don't see you two as S | S, but this is a personal interpretation of mine. I feel that the way you talked about them did not strike me as an approach about a scum partner (in the scum!you scenario).

i'm pretty sure it is literally impossible for there to only be one scum amongst the claims. good info otherwise, but let me be more specific: what is it about the scenario where i'm town that would make Dk scum?

[clidd]

@Pooky

Probably Dk.

Lemon and Asteria seem like deepwolfs.

pedit: PoE. You aren't both scum, but can't be both town. If one is town, the other is likely scum.

And in relation to the non S | S, it is difficult to explain because it's a very moonlogic view of my brain about the interaction of the two of you throughout the game + external factor. So you can consider "PoE" as my main reason.

[InsidiousLemons]

right. missing the fact that you are town from your perspective is probably an indicator that i should head to bed. it's past 2am here

[InsidiousLemons]

i've never heard the term moonlogic before but i am absolutely going to steal it

[InsidiousLemons]

does 2489 really strike you as possible from a salsa who

knows

you didn't kill anyone the previous night? and does a salsa with this partially-absolving information on you, who was suspicious enough of you on D1 to emphatically state "you're scum!" (1524), withhold it the next day?

@pooky i wouldn't mind your earnest take on this

[InsidiousLemons]

[clidd]

Tbh, I'm not sure about anything.

Dk can very well be scum here, as I said, if you are town, but the confused gamestate makes me think that scum is not visible to the eye because they're playing well and looking towny (something that Dk, if scum, is not)

I can also be wrong about you(Lemon) and Dk not being partners, but I really don't see that rn.

[clidd]

It's difficult to speculate without any scumflip as a starting point.

[clidd]

[clidd]

Ok, it's my turn to rest.

[VFP]

(assumed VT)?

did you happen to catch the many times this was disproven or were you too busy "juicin"

also: will it help if i ask what your case is on osuka from an outside perspective? because i'm looking and i still don't really understand why you're so convinced he's scum. you've had a hard scumread on him since, like, page 7 or something. there was the bit about how you didn't understand/see merit in some of his posts early on (editor's note: 1835) and how he was being caustic -- i agree he was unnecessarily hostile in response to a simple request for clarification, but toxicity isn't really AI to me.

249 is you saying "i'm gonna tunnel you without regard for your good posts, only your mistakes" which is. literally just what scum do

you ask about where osuka is directly engaging with players but he's been doing that all game so that doesn't really apply anymore

your scumpool in 642 is 3 conftown and osuka, 2 of whom are now dead which is. interesting

this is just turning into an iso skim now but you get the point

everything past this point just seems to be inflammatory insults from both sides and a restatement of the assertion that osuka is "doing nothing" and being "a juicer". what is your case? are you just keeping your promises from 249? i'm not trying to ask this in bad faith but i'm having a hard time thinking you're actually looking at this player's post history objectively

I'm not sure what you assuming VT there from a Vanilla read is bad for? You got a Vanilla read and assumed VT. Thats not wrong, that's exactly what happened to what you're claiming. If I was a rolecop with that result on a GS I would also do the same.
I'm also not disputing that Pooky is VT and I clearly said I trust VT is cleared (even though a scum you means not cleared, but I'll still go with town then anyway).

And why do I still think Osuka can be scum?
Let me explain this simply.

The 3rd scum are going to be with Anya, Osuka, and Andre.
I think Anya is scum. I think Andre looks more town after discussion today. If Anya is town, that means Osuka is scum.
I'm surprised that you spent the time to try and debunk this.

And concerning Osuka, my read changed to town majority. You are taking an early post as your argument here, when I'm pretty sure I've said several times that my read changed on Osuka through out the game.

[VFP]

p-edit i don't really have an eye for balance but mafia doctor + mafia goon + mafia traitor roleblocker could actually be argued to be more plausible, since it would remove the ability for the mafia to coordinate a roleblock and open up the possibility for the doctor themself to get rb'd

Why would traitor RB their own team?
And this is what I said earlier about the RB having to be uniformed.

[VFP]

wait nevermind that second point i keep forgetting the traitor knows who the mafia are i promise i'm not trying to dumbtell

p-edit ah fuck okay lemme reread

I think Lemons is trying to push as a town tell for this and it just makes me think scum more.

[VFP]

I feel like we just have 1 scum in Dk + asteria and 1 scum in Lemons + Clidd

Right now I'm thinking asteria + Lemons as the scum team.
With a sprinkle of Anya.